Racism incident in PSG v Istanbul match

[sect2k]

It most obviously was: "You would never say 'that white man', you would say 'that man'. So why do you say 'that black man' when you mean a black man", I think this is the shortest and most obvious explanation of racism I have ever heard, and I compliment Mr Ba!

So why do you say 'that black man' when you mean a black man. Isn't it self explanatory. I fail to see how this represents racism in any way. If he said something along the lines, "It was probably the black guy", then I would agree it can be interpreted as racist, and probably would be. In this case I see it as unfortunate, inappropriate, but in no way warranted of the response it received. Also this was communication between two officials and it was not directed at any one individual directly.

So this is not racist abuse and I fail to see how could be classified as systemic racism either. The only way this could be interpreted as racist, is if you succumb to the idea, that being labeled as black in any context is inherently racist.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

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Bingo.

 

[mancan92]

I absolutely agree with Micah on this. As commendable as it was for both teams to show solidarity and walk off together I think they've maybe picked the wrong hill to die on here. Like he said "Ignorant? probably. Racist? Probably not."

I think it's been lost in translation with the fact the Romanian word for black sounds fairly similar to the n-word. Because the controversy caused by it just seems a bit over the top.

I don't think thats different from what most have said. He is ignorant and made an ignorant state. In his job he shouldn't be making ignorant statements he should be better trained than that. Does it mean he is a racist ? No should he be better educated ? Yes Can what he said be hurtful or aggravating to a segment of people? Absolutely Is it one of those "straw that broke the camels back" situations 100%

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Apparently the Romanian officials received the racial abuse first. Someone in the background called Romanian is ''gipsy''.

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Edit: Never mind, someone in the background said: ''In my country Romanian are gypsy. But I can't say gypsy''. So it wasn't a racial abuse.

Gypsy is definitely a racist term. Their name is Romani or Roma.

 

[Berbaclass]

I don't think thats different from what most have said. He is ignorant and made an ignorant state. In his job he shouldn't be making ignorant statements he should be better trained than that. Does it mean he is a racist ? No should he be better educated ? Yes Can what he said be hurtful or aggravating to a segment of people? Absolutely

Of course because most are reasonable and see this for how it is. It's understandable in a way how it unfolded last night as everything was in the heat of the moment and they never really seemed to give him a chance to explain himself properly.

Of course those discussions may have taken place afterwards once the players were taken off the field.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

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Always makes me laugh when John Barnes chimes in about this sort of stuff.

This is the same John Barnes who defended Suarez during the Evra thing, by saying that "ignorance is an excuse" and equated what Suarez said to calling someone a "scouser" or a "manc"

He's also said that when Danny Rose complained of receiving racial abuse when playing with England - that he shouldn't be complaining about racism 'cos he's a millionaire.

So I don't know how anyone takes whatever he says seriously.

 

[shaky]

Bingo.

Not much different to saying "the lady" when pointing out one individual in a crowd of otherwise men. It's not sexist on the basis that women have been historically regarded as the inferior sex for centuries, it's just sensible.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Not much different to saying "the lady" when pointing out one individual in a crowd of otherwise men. It's not sexist on the basis that women have been historically regarded as the inferior sex for centuries, it's just sensible.

Agreed. This is just want society needs, more deflecting away from the real systematic issues.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Gypsy is definitely a racist term. Their name is Romani or Roma.

True but the guy who said it wasn't being racist probably, he was trying to explain it that just because it's right to use it in your country doesn't mean it's right to use it in here.

 

[Redlyn]

I think black should be barred from all dictionaries in all languages. Because people obviously can't handle the word in any context. And take brown with you as well. And white also. Don't forget about yellow. I think we are safe to keep green and blue but shaft red for good measure.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Bring on the genetically engineered blue babies I say.

 

[Berbaclass]

Always makes me laugh when John Barnes chimes in about this sort of stuff.

This is the same John Barnes who defended Suarez during the Evra thing, by saying that "ignorance is an excuse" and equated what Suarez said to calling someone a "scouser" or a "manc"

He's also said that when Danny Rose complained of receiving racial abuse when playing with England - that he shouldn't be complaining about racism 'cos he's a millionaire.

So I don't know how anyone takes whatever he says seriously.

I'm pretty sure he never said that. I think that was in reference to depression not racism.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Always makes me laugh when John Barnes chimes in about this sort of stuff.

This is the same John Barnes who defended Suarez during the Evra thing, by saying that "ignorance is an excuse" and equated what Suarez said to calling someone a "scouser" or a "manc"

He's also said that when Danny Rose complained of receiving racial abuse when playing with England - that he shouldn't be complaining about racism 'cos he's a millionaire.

So I don't know how anyone takes whatever he says seriously.

I thought he’s been pretty good on racism in football? Has come across very well in a few interviews on the subject in recent years.

 

[GifLord]

Always makes me laugh when John Barnes chimes in about this sort of stuff.

This is the same John Barnes who defended Suarez during the Evra thing, by saying that "ignorance is an excuse" and equated what Suarez said to calling someone a "scouser" or a "manc"

He's also said that when Danny Rose complained of receiving racial abuse when playing with England - that he shouldn't be complaining about racism 'cos he's a millionaire.

So I don't know how anyone takes whatever he says seriously.

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but he's not wrong this time is he?

 

[Annihilate Now!]

I'm pretty sure he never said that. I think that was in reference to depression not racism.

John Barnes - "That is why it is pointless, and pretty ridiculous, to be worrying about a footballer getting racially abused – in no way are they the biggest sufferers, and, quite frankly, if I was someone like Touré or Rose I'd feel embarrassed if I had to look at someone who was suffering genuine racism and take their sympathy. A millionaire getting booed in Russia is nothing compared with generations of people never getting the chance to better their lives and those of their children."

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

True but the guy who said it wasn't being racist probably, he was trying to explain it that just because it's right to use it in your country doesn't mean it's right to use it in here.

There's no excuse for using that term.

 

[mancan92]

Bingo.

The same John Barnes that was protecting Suarez through the whole Evra incident? I don't think he's the hill to die on

 

[WeePat]

At least someone's using a brain

You can guess what happened on social media. He was attacked for saying his opinion

Some of what he says is essentially what I was saying in here last night. It's impossible to know the full context of what transpired if we're all discussing it minutes after the fact.

What always happens in these conversations is people never really go into them with an open mind, so essentially we go in looking for affirmation of what we already believe, the end result being 22 pages of going round in circles with no-one moving an inch from the position they came into the conversation with.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

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but he's not wrong this time is he?

I don't know if he's right or wrong.

I know that someone got called "The black one" (or a variant of that) and that upset them, and I don't find that to be some crazy/stupid/insane/ridiculous thing that some people (not you) on here are suggesting.

I also have zero idea idea if its racist or not because I don't know what the intention of the official was when he said it. It's likely that its totally innocent, not racist and a total misunderstanding.

Personally I think Barnes coming out and saying "Yeah he should call him black" completely demeans the bloke who actually was upset by it. If he comes out and says "I personally wouldn't see a problem with it" then fair enough, but to say that is basically - to me anyway - inferring that they're upset over nothing and shouldn't be upset.

 

[Berbaclass]

John Barnes - "That is why it is pointless, and pretty ridiculous, to be worrying about a footballer getting racially abused – in no way are they the biggest sufferers, and, quite frankly, if I was someone like Touré or Rose I'd feel embarrassed if I had to look at someone who was suffering genuine racism and take their sympathy. A millionaire getting booed in Russia is nothing compared with generations of people never getting the chance to better their lives and those of their children."

Fair enough. I understand his point to an extent but it's just ignorant still.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Fair enough.

I assume that's fair enough to me and not fair enough to millionaires shouldn't be able to complain about racism!

... Unless you hate millionaires?

 

[Berbaclass]

I assume that's fair enough to me and not fair enough to millionaires shouldn't be able to complain about racism!

... Unless you hate millionaires?

No I mean fair enough as in I was incorrect.

 

[RobinLFC]

Personally I think Barnes coming out and saying "Yeah he should call him black" completely demeans the bloke who actually was upset by it. If he comes out and says "I personally wouldn't see a problem with it" then fair enough, but to say that is basically - to me anyway - inferring that they're upset over nothing and shouldn't be upset.

Was he though? Genuine question. I've only seen a few clips of the incident but it looks Ba got upset in his stead, not Webo himself?

 

[mancan92]

Was he though? Genuine question. I've only seen a few clips of the incident but it looks Ba got upset in his stead, not Webo himself?

Webo is clearly very upset in the videos as in people holding him back etc

 

[Zlatan 7]

Okay, on which planet do you live?

 

[Berbaclass]

Was he though? Genuine question. I've only seen a few clips of the incident but it looks Ba got upset in his stead, not Webo himself?

I may be wrong on this but I've only seen Ba going mad. It's part of the problem where people get offended on other peoples behalf now. If Webo was genuinely offended then fair enough but we see this so much where somebody jumps in on behalf of someone who has been 'slighted'.

 

[JPRouve]

I just realized that Webo was red carded, what did the ref put on his notebook? The black guy that was on the bench.

 

[Berbaclass]

I just realized that Webo was red carded, what did the ref put on his notebook? The black guy that was on the bench.

Yeah I thought I heard someone saying "He was sent off because he was black" or something along those lines. Might be completely wrong though.

 

[patty123]

Always makes me laugh when John Barnes chimes in about this sort of stuff.

This is the same John Barnes who defended Suarez during the Evra thing, by saying that "ignorance is an excuse" and equated what Suarez said to calling someone a "scouser" or a "manc"

He's also said that when Danny Rose complained of receiving racial abuse when playing with England - that he shouldn't be complaining about racism 'cos he's a millionaire.

So I don't know how anyone takes whatever he says seriously.

That was just a small bit of what he said, knew about the Evra, never about Rose. So according to him money makes you insult proof, feck me. You think he'd have more empathy given he went through it himself.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

"We are unconditionally against racism and discrimination in sports and all areas of life,” said Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan on Twitter.

Heh. Yeah, sure.

Erdogan: champion of non-discrimination in all areas of life.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

There's no excuse for using that term.

He’s not using the term, he‘s making a point of example.

 

[Robertd0803]

I missed how this escalated. The 4th official refers to the assitant coach in a way he really really shouldnt, and was heard by Demba Ba? Or someone else? What was the 4th official pointing out the assistant coach for to begin with?

 

[DoomSlayer]

Bulgaria is one of the most racist countries out there. It's so ironic to see this response and reaction.

I'm just a simple "giaour".

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

He’s not using the term, he‘s making a point of example.

He's clearly using it, twice.

 

[tanikozo]

Apparently context just doesn't matter anymore, calling someone black is as insulting as calling someone white. Honestly, get a grip, this sort of outrage for things like that and Cavani's comment does not help vanquish racism. Quite the contrary - it makes people dislike the fake corporate enforced PC culture even more.

 

[Synco]

There's no excuse for using that term.

That guy's English isn't perfect, but it seems that's what he wanted to say. Sounded like a "put yourself in Webo's shoes" argument to counter the ref's "it's perfectly normal where I come from" defense.

If I haven't missed anything.

 

[JPRouve]

I missed how this escalated. The 4th official refers to the assitant coach in a way he really really shouldnt, and was heard by Demba Ba? Or someone else? What was the 4th official pointing out the assistant coach for to begin with?

If I'm not mistaken he was agitated on the side line.

 

[BlackShark_80]

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[Dr. Dwayne]

That guy's English isn't perfect, but it seems that's what he wanted to say. Sounded like a "put yourself in Webo's shoes" argument to counter the ref's "it's perfectly normal where I come from" defense.

If I haven't missed anything.

There isn't any ambiguity about usage of that term. I don't think it should be used in any sense, ever.

 

[Synco]

I may be wrong on this but I've only seen Ba going mad. It's part of the problem where people get offended on other peoples behalf now. If Webo was genuinely offended then fair enough but we see this so much where somebody jumps in on behalf of someone who has been 'slighted'.

Webo was visibly upset and had to be restrained.