"Negru" - black colour ,no other context in Romania
Racism incident in PSG v Istanbul match
- Thread starter Theafonis
- Start date
Imagine the shock Demba Ba will experience when he finds out the name of that one former Yugoslavian country and the name of that little sea north of Turkey.
Shouldn't there be a "?" in the title.
But than again, why would it matter, the dude will be getting punished anyways, and will probably be called racist for the rest of his life, because he called a black guy, black
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But than again, why would it matter, the dude will be getting punished anyways, and will probably be called racist for the rest of his life, because he called a black guy, black
.https://www.telekomsport.ro/video-i...=prosport&utm_medium=cross&utm_campaign=Cross
If you scroll down you see a pretty long video about the incident. Around the 9th minute mark (game clock, not video clock), Webo clearly says to the 4th ref: "what are you counting? for what team? this is like basketball. We are very clean. We are not from Romania, we are from Turkey". Immediately after that, one of the romanian officials says in romanian "Tavi, look, I told you this Webo guy is a jerk". Then after that it's hard to make out whatever is spoken until the incident.
Also, if you really bother following the whole video, Demba Ba specifically says why does he have to say NEGRO when referring to a black person. Clearly alluding that he knows nothing about the romanian language. And I somewhat think it's the turkish manager that makes the comment about romanians in turkey being gypsies.
If you scroll down you see a pretty long video about the incident. Around the 9th minute mark (game clock, not video clock), Webo clearly says to the 4th ref: "what are you counting? for what team? this is like basketball. We are very clean. We are not from Romania, we are from Turkey". Immediately after that, one of the romanian officials says in romanian "Tavi, look, I told you this Webo guy is a jerk". Then after that it's hard to make out whatever is spoken until the incident.
Also, if you really bother following the whole video, Demba Ba specifically says why does he have to say NEGRO when referring to a black person. Clearly alluding that he knows nothing about the romanian language. And I somewhat think it's the turkish manager that makes the comment about romanians in turkey being gypsies.
This is such a needlessly aggressive take. Youre incorrect.
You went into a thread and attacked people integrity from the go, the tone was absolutely particularly when even after having an answer you kept attacking others.
You don't know who said that and as I said earlier it's not his voice but in an other video you actually see someone with the same voice saying that kind of things repeatedly.
I think you've just created a story. I posted a balanced opinion suggesting that perhaps people don't get indignant about something that is still developing. I then asked why people aren't getting further indignant about what seems like an even more offensive comment.
Of course even that comment might seem less offensive when we know it's context, but it seems massively inconsistent in morals to have an international outcry, vilification of a man (who it may turn out wasn't even the man who said it!) and high profile players and clubs rushing to condemn while being absolutely silent on this one.
If you're consistent in your morals then you either rush to condemn both, or you wait and see on both. Otherwise your intentions don't appear to have any real integrity
There was nothing balanced, you immediately accused people of hypocrisy and double standard, you drew conclusions before having the needed informations. And you are still doing it even though you have been told that people didn't hear about that report because it wasn't mentioned when most people commented on the incident, in fact when you made your own comment that report wasn't widespread either and I would also add that the report from the romanian journalist seems wrong too because while someone said it, it seems that it was an other member of the staff and you can see the guy later with the same voice/accent who is berating the 4th referee and Webo is already out. And as I initially answered, everyone that did something wrong should be sanctioned.
On a side note Mbappé did point to the member of the staff when he was talking to the referee, he said "If he(the referee) really said that then he has to leave and it's the same for him(Istanbul's staff member).".
Seriously? So it was another guy saying those things, but somehow the officials wanted to book Webo just because he’s black?
I don't know why they wanted to book Webo, maybe he did something else or said something that we can't hear and I don't think that we should assume that it's because he is black.
Genuinely think you're too hyperbolic to discuss this with further. I'm not sure what you're even arguing.
You seem to be saying that the reason people aren't talking about the gypsy comment with the same degree of outrage is because so few people have heard about it, which is exactly my point. I'm not arguing with anybody I'm wondering why one comment can cause such widespread outrage and what at this point may well be an even more offensive one is scarcely mentioned not in this thread but more broadly.
There is no point in you and I going back and forth here, I truly don't know what you're arguing or why you're so angry.
Because no one mentioned it, not even the referees. And because the game was stopped due to a specific comment aimed at Webo, if the refererees left the field due to these comments then it probably would have been the headline. And I do think that the other comments are worse and the guy keeps doing it after Webo is already expelled.
I can understand there's a logic in ways to using race as a descriptor, but equally I can imagine always being described as 'the black guy' is somewhat dehumanising and wearing, regardless whether it's meant innocently. I would say it's more clumsy and outdated than abusive- ideally you have a word with the officials about use of language, apologise and we all move on.
Regarding Mbappe, why shouldn't he comment on racism? Half the people calling him a hypocrite are probably typing their comments on a phone made in factory with suicide nets for tax-avoiding Apple.
The ownership structure of most major clubs, barring a few notable exceptions, is a moral cesspool.
I hope you’re rolling your eyes because there’s a double standard, not because I pointed out the double standard.
You pointed to a non existent double standard though, black players are insulted regularly and more often than not games aren't stopped.
I agree that whenever someone is insulted racially there has to be sanctions and I support games being stopped, but it’s unfortunate you fail to see the double standard here.
One is taking place in a completely different sport that has zero bearing on this incident?
Are you criticising the NBA? Are you applauding the players in this incident? What point - that is relevant to this thread and incident - are you trying to make?
You want to see a football champions league in Europe, in 2020, between a Turkish and French team, stopped, because a player, playing 4 months ago in a basketball game in the NBA in the United States of America, with no relation to these teams, these players, this sport got called a 'bitch ass white boy'?
What exactly is your point here?
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Is it true that that Istanbul staff member said to the Romanian ref, something like "We're not dirty like Romanians, we're Turkish", seconds/minutes before crying racism after he got called "black"? Just read that in some Reddit posts but couldn't find the audio or anything.
Someone posted a bit of follow-up of the Gypsy comment and he seems to be saying (in response to the negru comment) that 'Romanians are gypsies in my country. But you can't say that'.
If it comes out that he just made the gypsy comment, then whoever did it should be very strongly punished.
This would make no sense because the coach who 'cried racism' (great way to instantly show how you think btw) is Cameroonian, not Turkish.
Perhaps another coach may have said something like that but there is no way Webo is sitting there, calling himself Turkish. That isn't to say he wasn't saying other offensive things about Romanians before that though.
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What are the standards?
That was less than 4 months ago, if I recall.
Ah fair enough, I don't follow the NBA and thought I'd read 2018 somewhere. Will go back and edit post, thanks.
August 2020 wasn’t 2 years ago.
So what if it happened in the NBA? Is racism in a different sport not racism?
As ever, the fact that these 'racism against white people' incidents are being highlighted to try and downplay incidents of racism against black people speaks volumes about how much you actually care about it, your attitude to racism in general, and in your attitude towards improving either situation.
Well what on earth has it got to do with this incident? Should we bring up all sport related racist incidents and start comparing them? Why just limit it to sport?
Look at post #1045, the user has posted a video with the audio.
The "crying racism" wording in your post has already been addressed.
Not harshly enough... Its a dreadful thing to say about an incident, especially when you've already admitted to not knowing the facts of the case.
By the way even without the xenophobic rhetoric from a part of Istanbul's staff, the manager and one of the assistants could have easily been expelled for continuously and rudely contest the referee's decisions.
it's just rumours at this point
Do you agree that racism against black people is a much much bigger problem than racism against white people?
If so there is no double standard, just a case of bigger problem = higher focus. Completely normal und understandable.
When the big earthquake in Japan happened nobody was saying "why is nobody talking about my local 4.1 earthquake.. we have cracks in the wall".
And if somebody did they would be rightfully called out for being ignorant, self absorbed or even accused of actively mocking victims of a disaster.
Yeah, you're right, it's an awful take.
I hestated to reply to that post at all, but I think it's good when a minimum of factfinding takes place around such incidents, and it was a way to point to the video source.
You don’t know me and can’t possibly fathom how much I care or not, but ok.
I say we should fight any form of racism without equally exception and you take that as downplaying racism?
Oh, sorry I didn’t see it in time.
But to answer your question;
I want to see us putting an end to this even if that means games being stoped in Turkey, Andorra, USA, Argentina and the rest of the world where a racist incident occurs. With no exception of who is giving the insults. I just used an example from the NBA (in the United States of America from where the BLM movement and players taking a knee originated) where afterwords nothing happened.
In this day and age? See, that’s the thing. I wouldn’t agree.
I understand that we probably don’t come from the same place or share the same background thus have a different perspective.
I’ve been racially abused, especially in my childhood and it feels really bad. I can’t imagine I felt it less or more than anyone regardless of how darker or brighter he or she is.
Racism is racism.
You might say that, but it's clear from your posts you're trying to use whataboutism to dismiss the validity of the issue at hand. You might not realise what you're doing, but it happens all the time in these debates and it is very transparent.
What the feck is this post?
Yeah, no worries. I agree with you that incident is unrelated to CL football in Europe. So it’s wrong to bring it up as a case of double standards.
As for this particular incident, I think again there's an issue of foreign language translation along with the insensitivity of using colour to identify a man.
My guess is that language difference was the start of the problem. Some people are debating whether "the black one" is racist or not. I would argue that in English it is, particularly because of the word "one". "The black guy", doesn't sound racist but “the black one” does. That's the nuance of the English language at current time and context as with phrases like "people of colour" vs "coloured people" or "black people" vs "the blacks". They mean the same thing but there’s linguistic nuance at play.
The 4th ref here didn't say "the black one", he said "ala negru". Unless the Basaksehir staff speak Romanian, which I'm fairly sure they don't, then my guess is that the word that set them off is Negru not the syntax of the sentence or the absence of the word "guy". Not the nuance, but the similarity to an offensive English sounding word. And again, myguess here is that when they confronted the 4th official about his use of the word he explained that it means black in Romanian at which point the argument naturally evolved to "and why are you identifying people by colour"? That's my guess of what unfolded based on what I've read and seen so far. Subject to change if more evidence emerges of course.
It’s insensitive to identify someone by race in a professional setting, especially someone you don't know or have any previous relationship with. So yes it’s a faux pas by the ref regardless, but it’s not explicitly racist.
I think, on the back of the Cavani incident as well, we generally do have a problem where language and cultural nuances are misinterpreted or disregarded in a very Anglo-centric international framework. I don’t think every communication in a foreign language should be passed through the filter of “how does that sound in English” or “is that offensive if translated to English”. If English is to be a Lingua Franca, then make referees and players speak English in international competitions (good luck) and teach them the sensitivities in English. But you can’t apply English nuances to foreign languages, that simply doesn’t work IMO.
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