Racism incident in PSG v Istanbul match

[africanspur]

But again, the doctor should know the name of the patient obviously, so I would say the doctor should use the name of the patient. In some cases, like in the PSG game, the person doesn't know the name and so a physical descriptor is the easiest way around it. If there is one black person and everyone else is white, then it makes sense to use that. Also, if there is one white person and everyone else is black, the same thing applies. I don't see how it is racist.

Sorry to disappoint you but at any one time, I might have somewhere between 20-60 inpatients under my name, as well as many hundreds who I am technically looking after as outpatients. I'm not going to remember every patients name, especially on a busy ward round, where I'm seeing dozens of patients, some of whom may be totally new to me and when I'm under time pressure.

What I will never do is refer to those patients using a physical descriptive term whilst they are there listening to me. It's totally inappropriate.

 

[VorZakone]

The way he would have for anyone else? Third from the left, fifth from the right.

Can "third from the left" mean a different angle depending on the ref's position and the 4th official?

 

[Martial'sEmergingSmile]

If I was your doctor and referred to you by such a descriptive term (that fat one, hairy one, black one, smelly one etc) whilst you were within earshot, how would you feel?

I don't consider me being black to be a negative. All the others are societally considered negative terms. A better equivalence, for me, would be being referred to as the tall one.

 

[Mrs Smoker]

So I have no idea if there are any romanian speakers in here but...

The guy says "that guy there IN black". Meaning, that guy dressed in black over there.

I can't post the link to the audio as I can't post media.

Plot twist! He wears Green jacket.

 

[ChatBat]

This is gonna be my last post (can only post 3 in total).

Here is the full transcript:

"da-i la ala in negru de acolo. nu se poate asa ceva. ala... dute si verifica... dute si verifica... ala de acolo in negru de acolo"

Which translates:

"give it to that (guy) in black over there. This is unacceptable. That (guy).... go and check... go and check... that (guy) over there in black over there".


He never refered to him by the skin colour but by the color if what he was dressed in. The word "in" in romanian means the same as in english. So "in negru" means "in black".

 

[JPRouve]

Sorry to disappoint you but at any one time, I might have somewhere between 20-60 inpatients under my name, as well as many hundreds who I am technically looking after as outpatients. I'm not going to remember every patients name, especially on a busy ward round, where I'm seeing dozens of patients, some of whom may be totally new to me and when I'm under time pressure.

What I will never do is refer to those patients using a physical descriptive term whilst they are there listening to me. It's totally inappropriate.

You know damn well that one of the nurses or secretaries will give you a description. "Mr Rouve, you know the one that had holes in his undies."

 

[JPRouve]

Can "third from the left" mean a different angle depending on the ref's position and the 4th official?

No.

 

[africanspur]

You know damn well that one of the nurses or secretaries will give you a description. "Mr Rouve, you know the one that had holes in his undies."

that's what the juniors and the nurse in charge do for the rounds. A little whisper in the ear before heading into the patient bay....

 

[arthurka]

Why would he say "this white guy" when referring to a black guy?

And I've just unintentionally did the exact same thing the ref did which shows how crazy this whole argument is.

Hahaha he could use this guy..

 

[Andre Kagawa]

This is gonna be my last post (can only post 3 in total).

Here is the full transcript:

"da-i la ala in negru de acolo. nu se poate asa ceva. ala... dute si verifica... dute si verifica... ala de acolo in negru de acolo"

Which translates:

"give it to that (guy) in black over there. This is unacceptable. That (guy).... go and check... go and check... that (guy) over there in black over there".


He never refered to him by the skin colour but by the color if what he was dressed in. The word "in" in romanian means the same as in english. So "in negru" means "in black".

Didn't they all wear the same black jackets? Sounds like a cop out.

 

[Gee Male]

So wait

Hypothetically speaking, if the 4th official is cleared here and Istanbul are thrown out of the competition for walking off... are we through?

 

[Olly Gunnar Solskjær]

This is gonna be my last post (can only post 3 in total).

Here is the full transcript:

"da-i la ala in negru de acolo. nu se poate asa ceva. ala... dute si verifica... dute si verifica... ala de acolo in negru de acolo"

Which translates:

"give it to that (guy) in black over there. This is unacceptable. That (guy).... go and check... go and check... that (guy) over there in black over there".


He never refered to him by the skin colour but by the color if what he was dressed in. The word "in" in romanian means the same as in english. So "in negru" means "in black".

But they all wear the same jacket, not to mention that the jackets are green...?

 

[diarm]

This is gonna be my last post (can only post 3 in total).

Here is the full transcript:

"da-i la ala in negru de acolo. nu se poate asa ceva. ala... dute si verifica... dute si verifica... ala de acolo in negru de acolo"

Which translates:

"give it to that (guy) in black over there. This is unacceptable. That (guy).... go and check... go and check... that (guy) over there in black over there".


He never refered to him by the skin colour but by the color if what he was dressed in. The word "in" in romanian means the same as in english. So "in negru" means "in black".

So the 4th official in charge of a game between PSG (where the PSG staff were wearing black) and Istanbul (where the Istanbul staff were wearing green), pointed out one of the Istanbul staff by saying "the guy in black"?

This excuse doesn't explain the later clips we saw of the same official explaining himself to Demba Ba.

 

[calodo2003]

Is the word the Romanian official apparently used at all close to a simple description of two different guys by their skin color? As objective as possible? Or does the word carry racial overtones?

The official should be banned from officiating again, even bringing anything close to a word onto the pitch that would cause such a reaction deserves harsh punishment. Just wonder where the ignorance needle fell for the official when he said it.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

But they all wear the same jacket, not to mention that the jackets are green...?

Interestingly, it's a known visual oddity that green against red tends to look black.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

The worst thing is that we will have to wait for the result, probably tomorrow, whether we are going through or not.

We're not.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Can the Caf now be classed as having expertise in Romanian language?

what a talented bunch of people we have in here.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Some people think everything is racist against them. If they hear the word starting with n, even though it's in different language and means no malicious intent at all, they will still cry it's racism. That's how it is.

Who? Do you have any examples?

Edit. Scrap that, I can see your posts are that of a moron.

 

[Borys]

Did the referee call him "black" or "the n word"? Isn't that a matter od translation from Romanian language?

Was it more racist or ignorant?

 

[Fluctuation0161]

I mean thats not really the same. If you are in an office environment and share the coffee machine with someone chances are you will know their name, therefore there is no need for the descriptor based on physical appearance. But if the 4th official said 'the black one' whilst pointing out the coaches its because he doesn't know his name and so it's the easiest thing to go by (if there's only one black person). I don't really see anything wrong with it. It's like saying 'the one with the tattoo' or 'the one who is bald', a physical descriptor when you don't know the name of the person which is easy to identify.

I've worked in office with hundreds of people, one shared kitchen. You would not know everyone's name. You would not use language in the way I described.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Tbf, the social movement is called 'Black Lives Matter', using Black as a descriptor. It seems to be widely accepted in that context.

It isn't "blacks matter" though is it?

 

[padr81]

Did the referee call him "black" or "the n word"? Isn't that a matter od translation from Romanian language?

Was it more racist or ignorant?

Micah Richards kinda of said that he didn't think just pointing out him as the "black one" in the studio is racist. I'd disagree with his opinion but Micah's had to deal with this shit his whole life and I haven't.

 

[Juve4Life]

The game will reportedly resume tomorrow at 17.55 GMT

 

[UmbroDays]

Put this thread on ignore as I'm not even sure what fully happened and I'm sure we'll never get the full story.

But I do remember when I was dating a Romanian girl, and we were in East London. She was smoking outside and we were just talking and I could hear people talking and laughing behind me, but I never knew what they were saying.

When we went in she basically said "Why is she with that black" and some other stuff I can't remember. But it was super brash..."the black" just sounds terrible man. Also in a worked place, a labourer guy (I think he was Greek) thought I said something to him but he followed me and was asking the receptionist "Where is that black, where is that African". - it's definitely a foreign thing

I'm from the UK and I just don't like hearing me described in such a brash way. Whether or not its pure racism, mayne I dunno. CBA to discuss that now - but generally I feel like when its said people stick their nose up and just flick their hand and point and say "the black"...

Anyway, shit night overall!

 

[chris123]

Seems like we have a long way to go as a society when it comes to educating ourselves on racism.

Even if "negru" was mis-translated, referring to someone as "the black one" is racist full stop. The official might not realise he is being racist, or even understand why it might be considered racist, but it is.

It's a classic micro-aggression. How many times would you refer to someone as that "white guy"? As a white person, I can categorically say, I've never been referred to as "the white guy".

If you still don't understand, ask yourself why Demba Ba was so upset and angry about it. Educate yourself, try and see the other viewpoint. He has probably been identified by the colour of his skin more than any of his other defining features combined throughout his entire life.

Racism goes way beyond just calling someone the N-word.

 

[FreddieTheReddie]

I think it’s unprofessional from someone is his position. It’s generally rude to refer to refer to someone by physical appearance and even worse to use the term “black” or any synonyms while doing your job. It’s more or less acceptable if you are just referring to a mate among your other mates but not at a workplace. Would you say “the blonde one” or “the tall one” while doing your jub? Probably not, it sounds unprofessional. But I don’t think it means the ref or assistant was racist, maybe just ignorant.

Also people with different background, age, education level, nationality, gender etc may not be as sensitive as most of us here. For example my grangma (82 yo, Hungarian) would still use the world neger without any bad intention, but I agree, an official should know better.

Slightly Off:
I found an old thread on United Women’s Team from 2017 and it’s increadibly what kind of sexism was allowed on this forum just three years ago. And it still exists nowadays. So racism is an issue but not the only one.

 

[Borys]

Micah Richards kinda of said that he didn't think just pointing out him as the "black one" in the studio is racist. I'd disagree with his opinion but Micah's had to deal with this shit his whole life and I haven't.

Yeah, seems reasonable. It's always difficult when it's a word without any bad connotation in origin language.

On the other hand, I'm sure all officials were trained not to use those words so he's only got himself to blame.

 

[Gibb11]

With everyone dressed in back (dark green) and he says in Romanian apparently 'in Black' is he possibly referring to the colour of the mask perhaps? and has used that to distinguish person from person rather than firstly skin tone and then clothing which is as pointed out is all the same. Just in the picture posted alot of staff are wearing very bright white masks and he's wearing a black one?

 

[Tarrou]

So wait

Hypothetically speaking, if the 4th official is cleared here and Istanbul are thrown out of the competition for walking off... are we through?

why would we be through? they're bottom

 

[calodo2003]

I think it’s unprofessional from someone is his position. It’s generally rude to refer to refer to someone by physical appearance and even worse to use the term “black” or any synonyms while doing your job. It’s more or less acceptable if you are just referring to a mate among your other mates but not at a workplace. Would you say “the blonde one” or “the tall one” while doing your jub? Probably not, it sounds unprofessional. But I don’t think it means the ref or assistant was racist, maybe just ignorant.

Also people with different background, age, education level, nationality, gender etc may not be as sensitive as most of us here. For example my grangma (82 yo, Hungarian) would still use the world neger without any bad intention, but I agree, an official should know better.

Slightly Off:
I found an old thread on United Women’s Team from 2017 and it’s increadibly what kind of sexism was allowed on this forum just three years ago. And it still exists nowadays. So racism is an issue but not the only one.

Absolutely. Can’t have an official coming close to language like that.

 

[Jippy]

@Godfather It was a good decision to delete that post.

 

[Borys]

It's a classic micro-aggression. How many times would you refer to someone as that "white guy"? As a white person, I can categorically say, I've never been referred to as "the white guy".

I always thought calling someone a "gringo" would be more accurate situation for "negru" or whatever he said.

Calling someone "black" or "white" is improper, but "Negro" or "gringo" is offensive. Either way I believe they did the right thing to refuse to play.

 

[Berbaclass]

So wait

Hypothetically speaking, if the 4th official is cleared here and Istanbul are thrown out of the competition for walking off... are we through?

Pretty sure PSG are through anyway.

 

[WeePat]

I think it's it's their assistant manager, Pierre Webo, who was being pointed out to get the card?

I vaguely remember him playing for Mallorca a decade ago but can't say I'd recognise him on sight either.

Thanks, I have seen videos of how the incident escalated.

I wouldn't necessarily think someone referring to me as 'that black guy' is inherently racist. I would be if knew for a fact that they what my name is. I certainly wouldn't like being referred to in that matter. It's incredibly rude, but I wouldn't feel that I had been racially abused in any way.

I'm by no means a spokesperson for all black folks out there, so my feelings on this isn't gospel, but if the crux of the matter here is someone being referred to as "the black guy", then I would be hesitant in labelling it outright racist behaviour, whilst still supporting Webo and Ba if they felt there was racist intent in this situation.

 

[ChaddyP]

But they all wear the same jacket, not to mention that the jackets are green...?

I kid you not.. I literally thought they were all in black jackets till you mentioned they were green. Not trying to excuse anyone. But my eyes just lied to me.

 

[Godfather]

@Godfather It was a good decision to delete that post.

Yeah emotions got over me after watching the vid and our first half.

 

[Posh Red]

It must get tiresome being referred to by the colour of your skin so often. As a white person it’s not something I’ve experienced but I can completely see how it’s not right

 

[Tarrou]

its a really dumb thing to say in this day and age

Just point them out in any other way without using their race, it's really simple

 

[ChaddyP]

It must get tiresome being referred to by the colour of your skin so often. As a white person it’s not something I’ve experienced but I can completely see how it’s not right

Come to a country with mostly black people. Its the only thing you will be referred as.


Edit.... Well I can't speak for all black majority countries but it happens everyday where I live. "give this to the white man"

"yow white boy, your order is ready"


"excuse me sir, the white lady over there is calling you"

 

[Ronaldo's ego]

I though the ‘n word’ was used? Is it a clear cut case of racial abuse or another literal translation debate?