Raees/Invictus VS Gio/Theon - NT Peak draft - Semi Final

[Gio]

@Raees Any chance of sticking some of these GIFs in spoilers as per annah's instructions? Not normally arsed either way but it's getting difficult to load the page (especially on the mobile).

 

[Gio]

Perhaps it's time for Il Fenomeno.

Those highlights packages can be deceptive, but rewatching a full match such as the 1998 World Cup semi-final against Holland confirms the sheer menace and excitement of Ronaldo with the ball at his feet. You can hear or see it in the defenders’ body language, the pitch of the ITV commentator Brian Moore’s voice or the noise of the crowd. “Ronaldo could start from the halfway line and the whole stadium would ignite,” said Sir Bobby Robson, his manager at Barcelona. “A current would course through the stands.”

That was because Ronaldo played like a winger – but he did so in the centre of the pitch, which made him infinitely more dangerous. He played like every attack had a 10-second deadline and the Brazilian would explode into life with no warning for defenders. His 50-yard dash in extra time of the 1998 World Cup semi-final, when he scorched past Frank de Boer and Jaap Stam before De Boer made an immense recovery tackle, is among the most exhilarating moments in modern World Cup history.

There were centre-forwards before Ronaldo who roamed and ran with the ball – Dixie Dean, Eusébio, Preben Elkjaer and especially George Weah – but none did it as devastatingly or excitingly. He did not get between the lines of the defence and midfield; he got between the lines of the defenders, with or without the ball. He did not pass the ball through the eye of the needle; he squeezed through it himself. His famous hat-trick against Valencia in 1996 included two remarkable goals in which he bulldozed through the tiniest gap between defenders. “He’s not a man,” said the former Real Madrid striker Jorge Valdano. “He’s a herd.”

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...aldo-40-birthday-brazil-greatest-ever-striker

Spoiler: Praise

“The best player I have seen in my career.”
Clarence Seedorf


“Ronaldo was my hero. He was the best striker I’ve ever seen. He was so fast he could score from nothing”
Lionel Messi


“What made Ronaldo different was his sheer physical strength. He is the best I have played with.”
Luis Figo


“I’ve never seen a player able to show such precise control at such a high speed. Watching him was like watching a character in a video game.”
Marcel Desailly

He is so quick he makes everyone else look as if they are standing still.”
–Alessandro Nesta

He’s not a man, he’s a herd. He didn’t come to France [1998 World Cup] to compete with the players of his generation but to seek a place amongst the best of the two millennia – this one and the coming.
— Jorge Valdano

Hell even two of the defenders on the park seem unsure on how to deal with him:

 

[Raees]

CRUYFF V ZIDANE CLASHING (OR BUTTING HEADS.. SORRY COULDN'T RESIST)

• Both like to roam across the pitch, construct the game as they wish
• Prefer to dribble down left if they can, but need the full pitch to engage their playmaking
• Occupy central areas, and dictate play

 

[Raees]

Got to agree with Gio that the mistake there was all on Helmer for that ham-fisted attempted clearance . As regards quality of opposition, I don't think either defence comes up short in that regard. To take Baresi (1990) and Cannavaro (2006) for example, Baresi came up against CFs including Skuhravy, Polster, Caniggia, Quinn, Lineker, Fonseca and whoever the USA centre forward was, plus deeper attacking threats like Maradona, Francescoli and Beardsley. Cannavaro faced off agaainst CFs including Gyan, Donovan/McBride, Baros, Viduka, Shevchenko and Henry, with other attacking players like Nedved, Ballack, Zidane and Ribery. There's no gulf either way there IMO.

I wasn't saying Baresi 90 faced superior opposition, but that the 94 version did snuff out Romario almost single-handedly in that performance.

Sheva was shot in 2006, Henry wasn't in his prime either and the other guys are attacking mids, so don't come in to it. I mean it is marginal stuff, but marking out a all time great CF in his absolute prime is not to be sniffed at and Van Basten is in that category and for me I haven't seen anything in Cannavaro's 2006 resume which makes me think he'd mark out Van Basten in his prime with Maradona and Eusebio in support.

That isn't to belittle the guys achievements, he was immense.. but so was Van Basten in 1988 and imo he's in the top three CF's of all time, it would take an all time great defender with impeccable credentials to mark him out of a game. Whilst Cannavaro has impeccable international credentials in 2006, I wouldn't put him in that highest tier defensively where I'd back him to take out a R9, Muller or Van Basten in his prime.. whereas with Baresi, you'd back him to have a better shot.

 

[Enigma_87]

Got to agree with Gio that the mistake there was all on Helmer for that ham-fisted attempted clearance . As regards quality of opposition, I don't think either defence comes up short in that regard. To take Baresi (1990) and Cannavaro (2006) for example, Baresi came up against CFs including Skuhravy, Polster, Caniggia, Quinn, Lineker, Fonseca and whoever the USA centre forward was, plus deeper attacking threats like Maradona, Francescoli and Beardsley. Cannavaro faced off agaainst CFs including Gyan, Donovan/McBride, Baros, Viduka, Shevchenko and Henry, with other attacking players like Nedved, Ballack, Zidane and Ribery. There's no gulf either way there IMO.

Think Baresi has the edge there tho in terms of opposition. In 2006 Cannavaro had an impeccable tournament but Gyan, Donovan, Baros, Viduka doesn't scream goals. I don't think Sheva in particular had a very good WC either to be honest. Sammer IMO had more impressive opposition in Casiraghi, Zola, Del Piero, Suker, Shearer, etc...

 

[Gio]

I wasn't saying Baresi 90 faced superior opposition, but that the 94 version did snuff out Romario almost single-handedly in that performance.

Yet Romario had a golden chance or two which he should have buried. It was a very credible performance and remarkable comeback from Baresi, but Romario really ought to have finished the job before penalties.

 

[Gio]

That isn't to belittle the guys achievements, he was immense.. but so was Van Basten in 1988 and imo he's in the top three CF's of all time, it would take an all time great defender with impeccable credentials to mark him out of a game. Whilst Cannavaro has impeccable international credentials in 2006, I wouldn't put him in that highest tier defensively where I'd back him to take out a R9, Muller or Van Basten in his prime.. whereas with Baresi, you'd back him to have a better shot.

That take on matters defeats the purpose of the draft though. It's about tournament performances, not about reputation. Cannavaro won a Ballon D'Or purely on the back of those performances, it doesn't get any higher than that. He joins only 2 other defenders to have achieved that award - his teammate Sammer and Beckenbauer. His credibility here is impeccable.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

I wasn't saying Baresi 90 faced superior opposition, but that the 94 version did snuff out Romario almost single-handedly in that performance.

Sheva was shot in 2006, Henry wasn't in his prime either and the other guys are attacking mids, so don't come in to it. I mean it is marginal stuff, but marking out a all time great CF in his absolute prime is not to be sniffed at and Van Basten is in that category and for me I haven't seen anything in Cannavaro's 2006 resume which makes me think he'd mark out Van Basten in his prime with Maradona and Eusebio in support.

That isn't to belittle the guys achievements, he was immense.. but so was Van Basten in 1988 and imo he's in the top three CF's of all time, it would take an all time great defender with impeccable credentials to mark him out of a game. Whilst Cannavaro has impeccable international credentials in 2006, I wouldn't put him in that highest tier defensively where I'd back him to take out a R9, Muller or Van Basten in his prime.. whereas with Baresi, you'd back him to have a better shot.

Come on now mate...Shevchenko was coming off a fantastic season with Milan (28 goals in 40 games and CL top scorer), and Henry had just hit 33 goals in 45 games for Arsenal. They were both absolutely amongt the most feared strikers around at that time. I've voted for you already and I rate that attack exceptionally highly, but Cannavaro's 2006 tournament was top notch, and the quality of opposition very good..

* I mention AMs/wingers in passing simply as they clearly affect the overall quality of the opposition attack, and also as it seemed unfair to you to specify Fonseca/Caniggia as Baresi opponents in 1990 while not acknowledging the need to keep tabs on Maradona/Francescoli as well.

 

[Raees]

Come on now mate...Shevchenko was coming off a fantastic season with Milan (28 goals in 40 games and CL top scorer), and Henry had just hit 33 goals in 45 games for Arsenal. They were both absolutely amongt the most feared strikers around at that time. I've voted for you already and I rate that attack exceptionally highly, but Cannavaro's 2006 tournament was top notch, and the quality of opposition very good..

* I mention AMs/wingers in passing simply as they clearly affect the overall quality of the opposition attack, and also as it seemed unfair to you to specify Fonseca/Caniggia as Baresi opponents in 1990 while not acknowledging the need to keep tabs on Maradona/Francescoli as well.

Huh? World Cup 2006 was after the 05/06 season and lest I remind you it was the summer before his move to Chelsea where he was an absolute flop. He wasn't as quick as 02-04 and was not at his best in that World Cup either.

Henry was playing well, I wouldn't say he was in his prime and nor would I ever classify that Henry as being alongside Romario 94 or Van Basten 88.

That said, I still think Cannvaro was immense during 2006.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Think Baresi has the edge there tho in terms of opposition. In 2006 Cannavaro had an impeccable tournament but Gyan, Donovan, Baros, Viduka doesn't scream goals. I don't think Sheva in particular had a very good WC either to be honest. Sammer IMO had more impressive opposition in Casiraghi, Zola, Del Piero, Suker, Shearer, etc...

Agree that Sammer came up against some pretty impressive opposition in 1996. Sheva didn't have a glittering WC by any means, but he had scored 2 in 4 matches prior to the Italy match. Baros will overall be remembered as shite, but let's not forget that he was a respectable international striker around that time with the service of the Czech's impressive attacking midfielders. He's probably a comparable threat to someone like Polster, who had a good scoring ratio at inernational level but never made any impact at a major tournament. I'm getting far too into this really, probably because I was so happy to have picked Cannavaro initially , but his record at that WC was beyond reproach really.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Huh? World Cup 2006 was after the 05/06 season and lest I remind you it was the summer before his move to Chelsea where he was an absolute flop. He wasn't as quick as 02-04 and was not at his best in that World Cup either.

Henry was playing well, I wouldn't say he was in his prime and nor would I ever classify that Henry as being alongside Romario 94 or Van Basten 88.

That said, I still think Cannvaro was immense during 2006.

To me dismissing Shevchenko as being 'shot' in 2006 is just revisionism. We all know he went to shite bizarrely quickly after joining Chelsea, but he was easily one of the most feared strikers in the world going into that 2006 World Cup. 28 goals in 40 games in 2005/06, 9 in 12 in the CL to finish as top scorer, and a tie-equalising goal wrongly disallowed vs Barca in a CL semi-final just a few months before:

 

[Gio]

Ultimately it comes down to a couple of key points:

• Fit and quality of the defences - I think we've got a higher level of tournament performances in our back three and goalkeeper. All of them are well experienced in a back three, unlike the opposing defence with neither Baresi or Desailly having with any familiarity with it
• A central midfield partnership that has nullified Maradona or Messi on 4 seperate occasions in World Cups (3 of them in finals). Part of the rationale in choosing Matthaus was that eventually we would have to face Maradona and there is nobody better than his greatest rival to go head-to-head with him.
• A turbocharged frontline that may well be too hot to handle. Cruyff created more chances than anyone else in 1974 while Ronaldo was at the absolute peak of his powers. I don't think Bergomi, as good as he was, is quite stellar enough in this company based on his '88 performances, to shut out that kind of exceptional threat. In contrast, Thuram matches up well to Eusebio in terms of quality and attributes as does Cannavaro 2006 with Van Basten.

 

[Enigma_87]

To me dismissing Shevchenko as being 'shot' in 2006 is just revisionism. We all know he went to shite bizarrely quickly after joining Chelsea, but he was easily one of the most feared strikers in the world going into that 2006 World Cup. 28 goals in 40 games in 2005/06, 9 in 12 in the CL to finish as top scorer, and a tie-equalising goal wrongly disallowed vs Barca in a CL semi-final just a few months before:

Being shot in 2006 is harsh I agree. But IMO he was over the hill at that time. He hadn't scored a single goal in 3-4 months going into that WC and think he had some minor injuries in the last couple of months being in and out of Milan team on occasion.

He was very good against the Saudi's in the group stage, scored a peno against Tunisia but then was underwhelming against Switzerland and Italy.

Nothing to take away from Cannavaro of course - you can beat only those who are on the other side of the pitch, but if we should also mind the opposition and the level they faced. For example red hot Shearer and Suker in that 1996 EURO, that Sammer faced I'd put in higher regard.

 

[Annahnomoss]

Went with Raees/Invictus. At the end of the day it comes down to the trident up front as both sides are perfect elsewhere and Baresi and Sammer will have a similar influence in different ways. I'm not the biggest fan of either sides front three to be frank. While it could work there are too many question marks for me to see all of those players reaching their best and none of them will be elevated by their partners by any means. Ronaldo loves dropping deep to burst forward at full pace, and for Cruyff it was a big part of his game as well and Zidane is already there occupying that space and role. So while Zidane would have a key role here it's at the expense of Cruyff and Ronaldo.

On the other hand I don't think van Basten and Eusebio will play their best football here either with Maradona as the clear star running the show. But it does look a tad bit more likely to work just because of the individualism of Maradona in particular. Ronaldo looks like the stand out star for Gio/Theon for me at least and that says something about Cruyff not being in the best possible role.

Sounds negative but that was only because the rest of the team is so damn perfect it makes it pointless to talk about. Overall outstanding drafting from both teams.

 

[Raees]

In a game as tight as this.. it will take something miraculous to breach these defences... the story of Van Basten and the greatest European Championship goal ever scored (imagine Brehme putting in that cross)

Arnold Muhren's cross was wafting slowly, aimlessly, over the Soviet Union's penalty area. Muhren, then 37, had a crafty left foot and had been aiming to supply Dutch striker Marco van Basten at the back post. But he knew he had overhit this one.

It was the 54th minute of the final of the 1988 European Championship, and Holland was beating the Soviets 1-0. I was an 18-year-old Holland supporter, sitting behind the goal in Munich's Olympic Stadium (amid many empty seats) and wasn't expecting anything to happen.

But then Van Basten volleyed in a goal that is now considered one of the best ever scored in a big game. (For those in regions without rights to see the above video, watch Van Basten's goal here.)

Let's rewind to set the scene: the Dutch left-back Adri van Tiggelen had intercepted a poor Soviet pass and started a counterattack. He slipped the ball sideways to Muhren. At this point four Soviet defenders entered the box, with Holland's Ruud Gullit in the middle, a possible target. But then there was Van Basten, peeling away on the outside, behind the defenders.

To reach Muhren's cross, Van Basten had to run away from the Soviet goal toward the edge of the penalty area. When he got there, he rotated his hips such that he was facing goal, jumped and let fly. Any striker could have gotten lucky and scored it. Only with Van Basten in his form of that summer would you have bet on his doing so. His shot rose over the leaping Soviet keeper Rinat Dasaev and then fell into the goal at the far post: a drive and a lob in one. Dasaev landed tottering on his feet. Dutch coach Rinus Michels -- an old man who had seen it all, a father of the "Total Football" strategy who had just witnessed something decidedly more direct, more smash-and-grab -- rose from his bench, covering his face in disbelief.

Just 23 that day, Van Basten seemed to have his career ahead of him. Instead, that moment turned out to be a zenith he never quite reached again, either as a player or in his life since.

It was a surprise that he was even playing in the tournament. The ankle injury that would end his career had already begun to trouble him, and he had missed most of the 1987-88 season, his first with Milan. As a player, the young Van Basten was already dying, though nobody then knew it.

When Holland went into training camp for Euro '88 in West Germany, he still wasn't match-fit. Michels told him he would start the tournament as Holland's third striker behind Johnny Bosman and Wim Kieft. Van Basten had played with both Bosman and Kieft at Ajax. He knew he was better than they were. Even Bosman and Kieft knew it. During one-on-one training sessions in Amsterdam with his mentor and former coach Johan Cruyff, Van Basten asked him what to do. Cruyff counseled the traditional Dutch solution: walk out of the tournament.

Luckily, Van Basten ignored the advice and went to West Germany. After all, this was his first major tournament. Holland had failed to qualify for Euro '84 and the World Cup in Mexico.

In West Germany, he secretly smoked cigarettes in camp when Michels wasn't looking, got onto the team for the second game against England and scored a hat trick.

Then he decided Holland's semifinal against hosts West Germany with an 87th-minute goal that still looks impossible: sliding at top pace to his right, he hooked the ball to his left to beat the keeper from outside the area. In Holland, millions took to the streets that night for the largest public gathering since the liberation in 1945. That semifinal, drenched in Dutch anger about Germany and World War II -- was the Dutch emotional climax of the tournament. Sitting in the stands an hour or so before the final, a fellow Dutch fan told me: "I don't really mind what happens today, now that we've beaten the Germans."

Van Basten (still wearing the substitute's number 12) was mostly invisible against the Soviets. Before Muhren's cross began floating his way, he had had just one moment: a headed assist to Gullit for Holland's first goal.

Watching that second goal now on YouTube, what is immediately striking is how skinny Van Basten looks, compared with modern players. He is wearing the horrible tiger-striped orange shirt that Holland wore only that summer. The ankle injury has affected his balance; he is no longer at the height of his physical powers. But what he does have in that moment is the total self-confidence that even great athletes attain only occasionally.

Henk Spaan, Dutch author of various soccer books, says: "He could hit that volley because at that moment he was absolutely the master of the ball, and of that team." In the previous 10 days, Van Basten had scored four goals. Against West Germany, he had been personally responsible for the best moment in Holland's soccer history. So he felt good enough to have a crack from an impossible angle. In his own, typically downbeat, words: "It's the kind of ball that you think, 'What can I do with it?' I had to take it in the air and in the middle of the busyness. Well, then you just try something."

The sight of the ball in the net was so unexpected that fans behind the goal didn't immediately cheer -- it took a second or two to register what had happened. Even Van Basten looked surprised as he hugged his teammates. "This happens to you," he told Dutch journalist Hugo Borst years later. "If I try it another 10 times now, I'll never do it again. This is the moment that is given to you."

"We'll both always be reminded of that one moment," Dasaev told the Dutch magazine Voetbal International in 2014, when Van Basten turned 50. "He a bit more than me, obviously. Nobody expected him to shoot, not me either. Muhren's cross was in the air so long. There was a defender in between; he should have prevented Van Basten from shooting." Dasaev said that for a long time afterward he hadn't wanted to watch videos of the goal: "I knew I couldn't reach the ball. You see that you have no chance, whereas you're always in goal believing that you can get any ball."

Back in Holland, the celebrations that had begun with victory over West Germany simply continued. On the Leidseplein, Amsterdam's traditional nightlife square, someone replaced the street sign with an official-looking board that read, "Marco van Bastenplein".

Euro '88 remains the only trophy that Holland has won. With hindsight, it kicked off the 23 most glorious months of Van Basten's career. With Il Grande Milan, "the great Milan", he won the European Cups of 1989 and 1990. But then in the only World Cup he would ever play, Italia '90, he and Holland flopped.

He had one more excellent season in 1991-92, without winning the biggest trophies, and late in 1992, at only 28, he had an ankle operation that went horribly wrong. Despite a couple of attempts at a return, he never made it back..

 

[Raees]

ZANETTI'S LACK OF INTERNATIONAL CREDENTIALS..

Hour to go ..

So will discuss Zanetti as my final topic. I think he has by far the weakest international credentials in the semi finals, let alone this particular match up.

@antohan I understand he was good in Copa America 2004, but everyone else in these encounters is either a world cup winner, european championship winner, or world cup finalists with legendary performances to back it up.

What has Zanetti done in world cups to merit being on this pitch? I mean we utilized Suarez earlier in the tournament, who has a pretty good world cup record but we felt uneasy in putting him out at this stage of the draft.. but Zanetti's credentials here do not stand up to scrutiny.

Look at the Brazil lineup - it is laughable..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Copa_América_Final

 

[2mufc0]

Perhaps it's time for Il Fenomeno.

Spoiler: Praise

“The best player I have seen in my career.”
Clarence Seedorf


“Ronaldo was my hero. He was the best striker I’ve ever seen. He was so fast he could score from nothing”
Lionel Messi


“What made Ronaldo different was his sheer physical strength. He is the best I have played with.”
Luis Figo


“I’ve never seen a player able to show such precise control at such a high speed. Watching him was like watching a character in a video game.”
Marcel Desailly

He is so quick he makes everyone else look as if they are standing still.”
–Alessandro Nesta

He’s not a man, he’s a herd. He didn’t come to France [1998 World Cup] to compete with the players of his generation but to seek a place amongst the best of the two millennia – this one and the coming.
— Jorge Valdano

Hell even two of the defenders on the park seem unsure on how to deal with him:

Surprised you haven't focused more on him.

 

[SirMattBugsby]

In a game as tight as this.. it will take something miraculous to breach these defences... the story of Van Basten and the greatest European Championship goal ever scored (imagine Brehme putting in that cross)

That.. was a terrible cross.

 

[Gio]

ZANETTI'S LACK OF INTERNATIONAL CREDENTIALS..

Hour to go ..

So will discuss Zanetti as my final topic. I think he has by far the weakest international credentials in the semi finals, let alone this particular match up.

@antohan I understand he was good in Copa America 2004, but everyone else in these encounters is either a world cup winner, european championship winner, or world cup finalists with legendary performances to back it up.

What has Zanetti done in world cups to merit being on this pitch? I mean we utilized Suarez earlier in the tournament, who has a pretty good world cup record but we felt uneasy in putting him out at this stage of the draft.. but Zanetti's credentials here do not stand up to scrutiny.

Look at the Brazil lineup - it is laughable..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Copa_América_Final

He has 145 caps and is Argentina's record all-time caps holder. He had an excellent debut World Cup in 1998 in a 3-4-3, scoring that brilliant set-piece against England. He was one of the stars of the 2004 Copa America. Yet he lacks international credentials?

I'm not really sure it's fair to downplay the Copa America in that manner - relative to the Euros at least. Let's be honest, if there was a formal Team of the Tournament for every Copa America in the same way there is one for the Euros, Zanetti would have been picked up a lot earlier than he did.

To re-post from earlier:


We could have gone with 1998 - when FIFA said that "Zanetti was notable for his physical ability and surprising and effective forward surges in a 3-4-3" - but 2004 was undoubtedly his best tournament. You'll have seen the World Soccer praise from 2004:

Left on the bench for a World Cup qualifier in June and many assumed he was finished. Emphatically proved the contrary with a series of storming displays down the right flank.

And that wasn't just some generic praise - it was part of some section naming it's 3 stars of the competition. Elsewhere it also included some specifics around "his rampaging down the flank against Peru".

Or even the Guardian's summary of the tournament:

Zanetti rampaging down the right flank

He was also named in a team of the tournament.

A few short clips to get a feel for his role:

Spoiler: Zanetti at the 2004 Copa

Admittedly he has had a slightly weird international career, getting dropped for a couple of tournaments by lunatic managers, yet at the same time still piling up 145 caps. But there's no question over the calibre of his performances in 2004.

Importantly he fits well: it's not easy to find two greater flank dominators in a 3-5-2 than Carlos and Zanetti.

 

[Raees]

I'm not really sure it's fair to downplay the Copa America in that manner - relative to the Euros at least. Let's be honest, if there was a formal Team of the Tournament for every Copa America in the same way there is one for the Euros, Zanetti would have been picked up a lot earlier than he did.

Importantly he fits well: it's not easy to find two greater flank dominators in a 3-5-2 than Carlos and Zanetti.

It is completely fair when you look at the standard of the sides of that Copa America.. it was one of the weakest tournaments of the modern era. The Brazil side only had Adriano as its star, the rest of the side was shocking (and a young unknown Maicon at right back.. whereas Argentina's squad was pumped full of talent).

SQUAD LIST COPA AMERICA 2004

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Copa_América_squads

 

[Raees]

Last 10 minutes.. squeaky bum time.

Final thoughts on why we can win:

• Stronger 1 v 1 defenders in our defensive trio (perfect against their attack)
• Superior wing backs with proven international credentials
• Ideal blend in midfield with everyone in their proper roles
• Diego Maradona in 1986 form
• Better fit in attack, and in 1988 Van basten an all round complete striker who can score goals to win a tournament

 

[SirMattBugsby]

Exactly, now imagine Brehme putting in his quality crosses.

But if Brehme puts in quality crosses, how will van Basten get to volley like that?

Love your midfield by the way. Posters are liking Gio's German spine, but the trio of Varela, Tigana and Diego is so balanced!

 

[Raees]

@Gio @Theon

Congrats guys! another titanic tussle.. though I enjoyed this one more than the EE semi final as I was constantly having to catch up rather than face a complete turnaround in the last few hours.

Invictus is going to get it in the neck for making me work like a dog during this match

 

[Gio]

@Gio @Theon

Congrats guys! another titanic tussle.. though I enjoyed this one more than the EE semi final as I was constantly having to catch up rather than face a complete turnaround in the last few hours.

Invictus is going to get it in the neck for making me work like a dog during this match

Well I think both semi-finals were marginal at best and could have gone either way. Unlucky, the team was basically flawless so it was difficult to find anything wrong with it.

 

[antohan]

Bit of a simple reason but Diego 86 and van Basten 88 for me are a level above their counterparts here.

Voted on the same basis. When a game looks tight and probably a draw you can bank on that combo to decide it.

 

[harms]

(imagine Brehme putting in that cross)

It's hard to, as it was a shit cross

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Voted on the same basis. When a game looks tight and probably a draw you can bank on that combo to decide it.

That was it for me too. Both sides were pretty much draft-winning quality to me already, but Raees/Invictus had the most likely match winners based on tournament peaks. Great game, and deservedly close as feck.

 

[Ecstatic]

Who would win based solely on their performance in the chosen tournaments?
-----------Raees/Invictus--------------------------Gio/Theon

Busy week so let's say it's never too late to add a comment.

I've voted for Invictus/Raees because:

- I find their defence much more robust despite the fact Sammer was the most 'impact defender' from an 'international peak draft perspective'
- Maradona factor: Zidane is a GOAT but Maradona is on another planet
- Cruyff (false 9), Zidane 00 (#10) and Matthaus 90 (heart of the game) together : so many compromises

I know it's not a remake draft but I thought an international draft and a trivial all-time draft were 2 different things.

I'm maybe a fundamentalist or a narrow-minded poster

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Just curious, which role fits Maradona better?

AM is a 4-4-2 diamond or as an SS in a flat 4-4-2


...ST.....ST...
......Diego.....
...CM....CM...
.......DM......

or

...........FW.........
......Diego...........
LW...CM...CM...RW

It's nuanced, but first role has him in a more creative role and the 2nd role is more attacking (a la Cantona/Bergkamp type).

 

[Ecstatic]

Just saw that Gio/Theon have taken (the energetic) Maradona instead of (the slow man who likes to keep the ball) Zidane is an excellent choice to make the offensive strategy more harmonious and brilliant

 

[Ecstatic]

@Edgar Allan Pillow

He was brilliant as a #10 or SS. Maybe, he was rather deployed as a #10 with Napoli (see ma-gi-ca) and as a SS wit Argentina.

@antohan will be happy to answer your question here

 

[antohan]

Just curious, which role fits Maradona better?

AM is a 4-4-2 diamond or as an SS in a flat 4-4-2


...ST.....ST...
......Diego.....
...CM....CM...
.......DM......

or

...........FW.........
......Diego...........
LW...CM...CM...RW

It's nuanced, but first role has him in a more creative role and the 2nd role is more attacking (a la Cantona/Bergkamp type).

Second.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Maybe, he was rather deployed as a #10 with Napoli (see ma-gi-ca) and as a SS wit Argentina.

Yeah, was wondering if one version was better than the other.

Second.

Thought so. Thanks!

 

[Physiocrat]

Whilst waiting for the final I'd be interested in hearing people's GOAT line-up built around Maradona. In a 4231 I was thinking something like this:

------------------------MVB---------
C. Ronaldo--Maradona---Figo
------------Rikjaard---Neeskens----
Facchetti--Kohler----Figueroa---Thuram
-----------------Schmeichel------------

@antohan @Edgar Allan Pillow

 

[Enigma_87]

@Physiocrat not bad attempt at all.

I'd probably have the same but with Muller instead of MvB as the better pure finisher to be at the end of those chances.

 

[Physiocrat]

@Physiocrat not bad attempt at all.

I'd probably have the same but with Muller instead of MvB as the better pure finisher to be at the end of those chances.

Thanks. Went for MVB as I like that extra height for my strikers for the crosses

 

[Invictus]

Not exactly GOAT depending on how you rate certain players, but this should work well for Diego. Always felt that he would operate best in a slightly offset inside forward role on the left (which was where he mostly played for Napoli, unless I'm mistaken), and the team is selfless enough to cater to him:



You could make an argument for someone else over Rummenigge, but he provides the best blend of quality + movement + tactical werewithal - and the partnership with Müller is an added bonus.

Alberto over Cafú, even though the latter played with Nesta - like him better in a 2 man flank behind Rummenigge.

 

[Enigma_87]

@Invictus Gento is a great shout actually on the left. He isn't often in contention when GOATs are participating in the discussion, but his style IMO suits Maradona very well.

 

[Raees]

 

[Physiocrat]

@Invictus Like that setup a lot. I could only think of left rather than right forwards when composing the line-up. Kalle is a much better team player and would work better with Maradona than C. Ronaldo