Raith Rovers Controversy

[SilentWitness]

I imagine this is something which isn't in the news currently as much as it is up in Scotland.

For anyone unaware it concerns the recent signing by Raith Rovers of David Goodwillie from Clyde. In 2017 he was ordered to pay damages and ruled to be a rapist in a civil case for an incident in 2011 while he was at Dundee United. It was settled in this way as prosecuters stated that there wasn't enough evidence for a criminal trial.

His signing at Clyde also caused controversy but they claimed "As a socially responsible employer we will always seek to support people, to rebuild lives and careers, especially so after mistakes".

The Raith signing has been slightly different.

Their main sponsor, Val McDermid has pulled her support of the club and ended her support of the club and the club captain of the female team and multiple other staff members have quit the club.

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Apparently the 2 directors were outvoted in the decision to sign him.

They've also been supported in their stance by the First Minister...

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and Rape Crisis Scotland have made this statement -

“We are surprised and deeply disappointed that Raith Rovers FC are happy to send such a clear message of disregard to survivors of rape and sexual violence in signing David Goodwillie.

Fundamentally – though it seems Raith FC do not agree - women’s lives are more important than men’s talent or careers. Footballers are role models – particularly for young people – and it’s not okay to have someone in this position who has been found by a senior judge to be a rapist.

We wonder whether those who took this decision thought for a second about how it may look or feel to survivors to have to watch someone judged to have committed rape be celebrated and applauded.

This was a bad decision that sends entirely the wrong message, and it should be withdrawn.”

Currently the club has remained quiet but it will not be too long until they need to respond. I can't see anything other than them reversing the decision to sign him but they've heavily damaged their reputation by doing so. Thankfully people have woken up a little bit to society and ultimately football needing to change when it comes to cases like this.

Note: Any mention of Greenwood or his case in this thread will result in infractions/bannings so keep this thread about this discussion, ta.

 

[tenpoless]

What a start to 2022. Football makes me sick sometimes. It is simply not the sport I used to love as a kid anymore.

 

[Vidyoyo]

Here's more context for anybody else wondering (from wiki).

Goodwillie and David Robertson, who was then a teammate of Goodwillie, were accused of committing rape in January 2011. Goodwillie was charged with rape, but the Scottish legal authorities decided not to pursue a criminal prosecution. The complainer instead took civil action against Goodwillie and Robertson, whom the judge ruled to be rapists, ordering them to pay £100,000 in compensation. The civil case was judged on the balance of probabilities and did not need corroboration of evidence, unlike in a Scottish criminal case. Goodwillie left his club, Plymouth Argyle, soon after the case concluded. A club statement said that Goodwillie had asked to leave as he was considering an appeal. In November 2017, three appeal judges at the Court of Session upheld the ruling.

He has other offences (assault) so I'm inclined to wonder what Raith Rovers are smoking. The guy sounds like a genuinely rotten character.

 

[Semper Fudge]

He sounds like an absolutely awful person. Multiple assault convictions too.

 

[Pass and Move]

I just don't understand why clubs make these signings. It's not like these players are world beaters, so why risk the furore?

 

[11101]

Boggles the mind they would think it's ok to sign anybody with a ruling against them in something like this. It's not an accusation or even a quashed conviction, it's a ruling from a panel of judges that he did it.

Looking at his biography he's always been a wrong'un. The rape case was just the cherry on top.

 

[altodevil]

Decent player on his day although the Arabs I know never took to him. Bit of a showpony.

 

[TMDaines]

Whilst I am always for giving people second chances, it is pretty clear in this instance why people aren't happy with it. My understanding is that whilst a criminal conviction was not pursued, judges found him guilty of rape in a civil case and that decision has been upheld even after appeals. If you want people to be accepting of you in society, you either need to demonstrate your innocence after all legal proceedings, have a very strong case for why your conviction or judgment against you was a sham, or show genuine contrition for what you have done and ensure justice has been served. None of those things have happened here.

Hypothetically, that's what I would want to happen if someone found guilty of serious crimes wanted a second chance representing an organisation that I am a stakeholder in.

 

[SilentWitness]

Whilst I am always for giving people second chances, it is pretty clear in this instance why people aren't happy with it. My understanding is that whilst a criminal conviction was not pursued, judges found him guilty of rape in a civil case and that decision has been upheld even after appeals. If you want people to be accepting of you in society, you either need to maintain your innocence after criminal or civil proceedings, have a very strong case for why your conviction or judgment against you was a sham, or show genuine contrition for what you have done and ensure justice has been served. None of those things have happened here.

Hypothetically, that's what I would want to happen if someone found of serious crimes wanted a second chance representing an organisation that I am a stakeholder in.

I think remorse is crucial in terms of a 2nd chance. Not that I think he should be given one but he's shown absolutely no remorse in what he's done and I doubt he ever will.

 

[UweBein]

I just don't understand why clubs make these signings. It's not like these players are world beaters, so why risk the furore?

It's cause they are run by sociopathic morons - at least some of them.

 

[TMDaines]

Talk about his name being an inaptronym too.

 

[Solius]

Honestly don’t know when clubs will learn. It’s never a fecking good idea no matter the talent of the player. It’s just morally wrong.

 

[phelans shorts]

Good on everyone who walked out.

 

[horsechoker]

Really hits home how bad it would be with another player at a top club if the same thing happened.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I can't imagine what the club were smoking because he has had previous for assaults on his record too. Good on all those taking action and stands over it.

 

[Smores]

Given the likely controversy you'd have thought they'd do some outreach to see how it might be received first. My guess is they believe he didn't do it and are boneheaded over it.

Footballer is a position where you've got kids looking up to them so he nor any other rapist shouldn't be allowed to play again.

They can go find a shitty job and feel the consequences of their actions. Their victims have to live it so i find this call for quick rehabilitation pathetic.

 

[DatIrishFella]

What a start to 2022. Football makes me sick sometimes. It is simply not the sport I used to love as a kid anymore.

It is the sport you know. Its just with social media and the ability to gain information on the fly we are seeing a lot of heinous shit come to light the past few years.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Sounds absolutely bonkers by the club.

Standing by 1 player and losing a huge sponsor, club captain etc. Madness.

 

[arthurka]

Great to hear things are slowly but steadily changing.

 

[(...)]

My rational brain tells me that 10 years is a long time, and we should be able to give those men a second chance at some point in their life.
But my guts tell me that anyone with a conviction like that shouldn't be able to have a "privileged" position in our society, and I consider being a profesionnal fooball player as privileged position. And no fan should be made to cheer for a rapist.

 

[Plant0x84]

Just goes to show how likely it is that ‘Unnamed Forward’ will play again somewhere, someday. Shameful really.

 

[IRN-BRUno]

I guess that Raith felt that with him signing for Clyde previously after the civil case that the backlash wouldn't be too bad. If it's been accepted then, it'll be okay now.

Rather naive at best though really. That might have been only 5 years ago but you'd like to think that things have changed for the better in that time, and obviously without going into detail it's not good timing either.

 

[Normandy]

Just goes to show how likely it is that ‘Unnamed Forward’ will play again somewhere, someday. Shameful really.

My guess would be Salford City.

As for this news story, they are entitled to do what they want with their money. If the people involved deem it worthy to sacrifice some investment for their morals, the more power to them. Raith surely knew of the potential consequences with such a large amount of a women work force and sponsors around the club?

 

[Jippy]

What's next then? Are they actually going to play him?

 

[SilentWitness]

What's next then? Are they actually going to play him?

They play this evening so will see what happens.

 

[Gandalf]

Would have to assume there will be a humiliating reversal in the works now and the club are just trying to figure out a way out of the contract if the player won't do the decent thing and resign. The problem for Raith is that the damage is done and it is unlikely the sponsors or employees who walked will come back because regardless of any actions they take now they cannot pretend this did not happen and likely many of those involved in the decision will need to leave the club before trust can be rebuilt.

 

[Jippy]

They play this evening so will see what happens.

Would be remarkable if they say feck it, in for a penny, in for a pound and start him.
Amazing decision-making so far. Did they have a fanfare about him being a marquee signing or sign him quietly hoping no-one will notice?

 

[diarm]

What a start to 2022. Football makes me sick sometimes. It is simply not the sport I used to love as a kid anymore.

When you were a kid, it just seemed nicer because nobody spoke up and the rapists got away with it.

 

[Samid]

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As announced on our website last night, Raith Rovers FC can confirm that we have signed David Goodwillie from Clyde FC.

David is a proven goal scorer, and this will be his second stint with the club, having previously played for us on loan from Dundee United during season 2007-08.

As with all new signings, the club has carefully considered our position as a Community Club and we completely respect the differing views among fans and stakeholders, many of whom we have spoken to directly in the past 24 hours and are continuing to engage with.

As David has previously played for Raith Rovers earlier in his career, we consider him to be part of Raith Rovers Football Club. The management team is familiar with David’s career and background and – in particular – his footballing ability. That is our foremost consideration, and we believe that he will strengthen the Raith Rovers playing squad.

Please be assured that as a community football club we fully acknowledge this signing has divided opinion amongst our loyal fans and commercial stakeholders; We aim to rebuild that trust.

While acknowledging the gravity of what happened ten years ago, as a club we fully support and encourage rehabilitation, and many factors influenced our signing.

First and foremost, this was a football related decision.

Embarrassing. Feel sorry for their fans.

 

[Baxter]

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[ShinjiNinja26]

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Embarrassing. Feel sorry for their fans.

Let’s hope a certain other club don’t try and follow suit. Although I highly doubt it if sponsorship deals are under threat.

 

[padr81]

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Embarrassing. Feel sorry for their fans.

"How to double down on being an idiot for dummies" comes to mind.

 

[Sandikan]

Really interesting case this one.

Normally it's a criminal conviction that has someone banged to rights, as that is beyond reasonable doubt.
A civil case on "probabilities" sounds much less certain, but they've decided to decree guilt and a cash punishment based on that.
I dare say normally players-rich types make an off the record payment to make it all go away.

But the really odd thing is that this is a decade ago. He's been playing for years since!
Did no-one at Clyde over the last 3 or 4 years raise a whisper about this for example?!

 

[Gandalf]

Let’s hope a certain other club don’t try and follow suit. Although I highly doubt it if sponsorship deals are under threat.

Cannot see it. This is not going to end well for Raith as they have not divided opinions, they have united them as almost every one of their supporters is saying they are done with them. Like the Captain of the Titanic steering straight into the iceberg.

 

[Sandikan]

Would be remarkable if they say feck it, in for a penny, in for a pound and start him.
Amazing decision-making so far. Did they have a fanfare about him being a marquee signing or sign him quietly hoping no-one will notice?

He'd been racking up goals for years for Clyde, presumably without a whisper of complaint or we'd have heard about this before today, so you have to assume they'd totally underestimated the reaction!!

 

[do.ob]

Really interesting case this one.

Normally it's a criminal conviction that has someone banged to rights, as that is beyond reasonable doubt.
A civil case on "probabilities" sounds much less certain, but they've decided to decree guilt and a cash punishment based on that.
I dare say normally players-rich types make an off the record payment to make it all go away.

But the really odd thing is that this is a decade ago. He's been playing for years since!
Did no-one at Clyde over the last 3 or 4 years raise a whisper about this for example?!

Maybe the difference is just that Clyde didn't have an outraged sponsor that sold 17million books in her life, so "no one" ever really cared about it.

 

[SilentWitness]

Really interesting case this one.

Normally it's a criminal conviction that has someone banged to rights, as that is beyond reasonable doubt.
A civil case on "probabilities" sounds much less certain, but they've decided to decree guilt and a cash punishment based on that.
I dare say normally players-rich types make an off the record payment to make it all go away.

But the really odd thing is that this is a decade ago. He's been playing for years since!
Did no-one at Clyde over the last 3 or 4 years raise a whisper about this for example?!

Yes. They did.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-39495940

 

[Rhyme Animal]

I think people need to try and calmly consider whether they believe in rehabilitation or not - and if so, at what point is someone who’s been rehabilitated / punished ‘not allowed’ to work…?

Like, if someone’s a skilled doctor, but gets done for drunk driving or domestic violence, punished / rehabilitated, should they then be allowed to use their skill and work as a doctor?

What if instead of a doctor they were a plumber? Is that ‘lowly’ enough that we’d be ok with them going back to work?

Should people have to retrain at a level the general public decides is ok and acceptable? Should they just sign on and not be forced work at all!?

Isn’t preventing Sports people from a career once they’ve been punished / rehabilitated a weird sort of mild vigilantism? Like, ‘no we’ll decide your punishment’?

It’s a very complex issue I think and the more I think about it the more big the questions are I think.

 

[TheGame]

I just don't understand why clubs make these signings. It's not like these players are world beaters, so why risk the furore?

Exactly this. Utterly idiotic.

 

[90 + 5min]

This says it all

"First and foremost, this was a football related decision."