Ralf Rangnick | ex-interim manager | does anyone rate him?

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croadyman

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People tqlking about deop


I've often wondered if likes of Bailly could do a job in MF? Not become a mf player as such long term. But simply as a sort of cover or something different until we sign someone.

Probably a daft thought but over the years many a player has adapted their game to become a different cog in a team.

When SAF took over I recall him using McGrath in mf. Think we lost the game.

Not saying it has to be Bailly specifically. Maybe AWB, lindelof...

Don't slate me on this I'm just not feeling mcfred and don't currently see alternatives amongst the youth right now.

Likes of Conte are renown for making players better/good in positions. I'm hoping Ralf has the same mindset.

Or just signs someone in the Jan window
Yeah perhaps our board shouldn't have looked at Conte and thought Jose MK2, thought Ralf would have commanded respect but worried that isn’t the case at all

Already feels like they aren't prepared to work hard for him and he isn't getting the immediate impact Conte may have done.
 
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downunder red

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The guy has only been here a month, give him a bit of time and at least one transfer window. It's not his fault he has players that can not pass five meters or even run themselves into the ground for the money some are on. I'm sick of a lot of our players putting their hands up when they make a mistake thinking that makes everything all right. I want to see them chase the ball untill they get it back. I want them to be busting their balls for the club. Show some character !!!
Ralf's 4 2 2 2 might not be the best for our players but at least these players should be able to do the basics. No system is going to work while some players are half arsed to give the effort.

On another note, don't know how true this is but players not happy with late training, having to drive home in the dark. Would not surprise me. Only heard it from a mate.
 

Mickeza

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Why does every one keep saying his style won’t work with McFred? They’re exactly the sort of midfielders he likes - very physical and capable of winning the ball high - Haidara who he apparently loves is a fecking Fred clone. Mctominay has also been very good the last two games - moving the ball quickly forward between the lines - our attacking players have been the issue. People just watch Goldbridge talking his usual shite and parrot it.
 

Crashoutcassius

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Rangnick was brought in as a long term plan not a short term fix, the club are well aware he'd want to instill a totally new playing style. It's very early days to be talking about moving people on, he's barely had a couple of weeks with the squad massively hampered by Covid and Carrington being closed and he is still arranging his own back room staff.

Look at any other club that committed to such a thing - it has always taken time. Fergie, Wenger, Klopp, I could go on - these are managers that come in and mold things into their own fashion and don't necessarily hit the ground running. Often players will eventually adapt and buy in to the changes.

It isn't even "writing off the season" for a long term plan, Rangnick is bringing a much more disciplined style of play. Sticking with Ole when things clearly weren't working would have been writing the season off. We may end up playing some less exciting football over the next couple months while the players begin to pick up and feel comfortable in the philosophy but in the short term we certainly look less of a calamity. Plus we'll be starting next season with much of the system in process rather than having to write off the first half of next season while players adjust, and the intention is to get a manager in who while they'll have their own ideas they will be building off the work Rangnick has started and will continue to advocate.

One thing Rangnick, and others of his ilk, always say is that their squads need a telepathic understanding - it is drilling this instinct into them that takes time. Since he has come in you can visibly see our players thinking on the ball and taking a second longer and this is what will take the most work and time. For now with the ball at their feet they'll be thinking a million miles an hour of how to progress play, the drills, who will be moving for them whereas if we stick to the training and game plans eventually you'll see that progress to being far more fluid and intuitive.

For what it is worth I think Sancho will flourish, he is the player we have who is most used to an adjacent system of football and what he spent his formative years playing. He isn't some wild card fancy winger like many thought, he's a very technical player who is used to floating centrally and inter-linking with similar players with quick triangular movements and passing. The team is moving more in line with football suitable for Sancho. Bruno is a bit of an odd one; he has all the talent in the world but is the most undisciplined - which worked in more chaotic structures where he could constantly try things but now he is going to be forced to playing in a system that relies on cohesion - he has the talent to do so but he needs some serious coaching to reign his style of play, if his mind adjusts then he will be a force of nature with the talent and work ethic he possesses. Plus of course these style of teams aren't all 100% robotic and often have a player of two with a wild card nature about them - look at De Bruyne at City, while he perfectly plays their system sometimes he does break the expected passage of play to do something remarkable, similarly with Salah at Liverpool, or even look at Tiki Taka teams they also tend to have players that while playing the style also have somewhat of a license to operate independently. The most boring and robotic inclination of Tiki Taka was likely Spain 2010-2012 and Iniesta and Mata (when played) contributed heavily to the drilled play but also tried passages of play independently.

Pogba is a very intelligent player (who sometimes makes very stupid decisions) but he hasn't played in a system like we're moving towards at all, but his biggest challenge will probably contributing off the ball when he is used to working alongside a player who would cover for him. I have my doubts, but the "system" is flexible and there could very well be room for him. Either way all signs point to him leaving anyway.

Rashford I like and he has repeatedly shown us what he can offer, but his decision making is appalling. He is in serious need of coaching and given a proper football education. He needs to be dropped for the time being, as currently it is hard to see Rashford as a first XI player for the club - but he is excellent to keep in the squad and be used rotationally. Not in a "plays cup games and the odd 5 minute appearance" sense, I mean someone who still gets a considerable amount of game time and some league starts.

People writing off Rangnick already are mentalists, it is incredibly knee jerk to be doing so. We're weeks into the process that has been hampered massively by Covid and an inability to train properly with the whole squad, and the gradual introduction of coaches and training methods. Hey, at least we got our first clean sheet in about two years. I don't consider myself a massive disciple of Rangnick and if things don't work then we reassess and change trajectories (sigh... again), but outwardly it looks to be the right direction for the club and the very least they can do is commit to it and see how it pans out. And that includes fans actually backing this club for a change. A lot of our fan base is pathetic Football Twitter types who unless we win 8-0 in a trailblazing fashion every week will always moan, and whinge, and target players or staff and it is getting far far worse. There were probably types who wanted us to sack Fergie and sell Ruud during that period but now they have platforms to spout that shite on and have multiplied massively.
Fair play that is a great post. I mostly agree. I don't really agree with the narrative floating around that Ralf can't work with a player like Bruno. But if that really is the case then I think he isn't the right choice as an interim for the reasons I have said. I don't think that is the case personally, I think we have a great squad and Ralf will improve over time
 

Crashoutcassius

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Can we ditch the 4222 and go 433 please? Our best team has Cavani in it also, end of story. He has to start for me. I think RR is in a unique position whereby he doesn't have to try and "save his job" whereby he's afraid to mix it up.

I don't want to say drop Ronaldo, but it's glaringly obvious he's not offering anything when we don't create chances. I don't think he's the player to get you through a tough time, Cavani should be starting up top instead. Also, let's play our players in the best positions.

If we persist with 4222 that isn't really used anymore, and unimaginative football like we are being served up, then this project is going to get old real quick.
I think the 422 and 4diamond 2 are his most common formation by far, with the narrowness to aid the press being the most important aspect. Playing with the ball seems to have been secondary through his career. He may find what ole found, that you have the ball most of every game and need to build the team to maximise that or small teams will be problematic (like ole, Ralf might have better success versus bigger teams, at least for a while)
 

HailtotheKing

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Rangnick was brought in as a long term plan not a short term fix, the club are well aware he'd want to instill a totally new playing style. It's very early days to be talking about moving people on, he's barely had a couple of weeks with the squad massively hampered by Covid and Carrington being closed and he is still arranging his own back room staff.

Look at any other club that committed to such a thing - it has always taken time. Fergie, Wenger, Klopp, I could go on - these are managers that come in and mold things into their own fashion and don't necessarily hit the ground running. Often players will eventually adapt and buy in to the changes.

It isn't even "writing off the season" for a long term plan, Rangnick is bringing a much more disciplined style of play. Sticking with Ole when things clearly weren't working would have been writing the season off. We may end up playing some less exciting football over the next couple months while the players begin to pick up and feel comfortable in the philosophy but in the short term we certainly look less of a calamity. Plus we'll be starting next season with much of the system in process rather than having to write off the first half of next season while players adjust, and the intention is to get a manager in who while they'll have their own ideas they will be building off the work Rangnick has started and will continue to advocate.

One thing Rangnick, and others of his ilk, always say is that their squads need a telepathic understanding - it is drilling this instinct into them that takes time. Since he has come in you can visibly see our players thinking on the ball and taking a second longer and this is what will take the most work and time. For now with the ball at their feet they'll be thinking a million miles an hour of how to progress play, the drills, who will be moving for them whereas if we stick to the training and game plans eventually you'll see that progress to being far more fluid and intuitive.

For what it is worth I think Sancho will flourish, he is the player we have who is most used to an adjacent system of football and what he spent his formative years playing. He isn't some wild card fancy winger like many thought, he's a very technical player who is used to floating centrally and inter-linking with similar players with quick triangular movements and passing. The team is moving more in line with football suitable for Sancho. Bruno is a bit of an odd one; he has all the talent in the world but is the most undisciplined - which worked in more chaotic structures where he could constantly try things but now he is going to be forced to playing in a system that relies on cohesion - he has the talent to do so but he needs some serious coaching to reign his style of play, if his mind adjusts then he will be a force of nature with the talent and work ethic he possesses. Plus of course these style of teams aren't all 100% robotic and often have a player of two with a wild card nature about them - look at De Bruyne at City, while he perfectly plays their system sometimes he does break the expected passage of play to do something remarkable, similarly with Salah at Liverpool, or even look at Tiki Taka teams they also tend to have players that while playing the style also have somewhat of a license to operate independently. The most boring and robotic inclination of Tiki Taka was likely Spain 2010-2012 and Iniesta and Mata (when played) contributed heavily to the drilled play but also tried passages of play independently.

Pogba is a very intelligent player (who sometimes makes very stupid decisions) but he hasn't played in a system like we're moving towards at all, but his biggest challenge will probably contributing off the ball when he is used to working alongside a player who would cover for him. I have my doubts, but the "system" is flexible and there could very well be room for him. Either way all signs point to him leaving anyway.

Rashford I like and he has repeatedly shown us what he can offer, but his decision making is appalling. He is in serious need of coaching and given a proper football education. He needs to be dropped for the time being, as currently it is hard to see Rashford as a first XI player for the club - but he is excellent to keep in the squad and be used rotationally. Not in a "plays cup games and the odd 5 minute appearance" sense, I mean someone who still gets a considerable amount of game time and some league starts.

People writing off Rangnick already are mentalists, it is incredibly knee jerk to be doing so. We're weeks into the process that has been hampered massively by Covid and an inability to train properly with the whole squad, and the gradual introduction of coaches and training methods. Hey, at least we got our first clean sheet in about two years. I don't consider myself a massive disciple of Rangnick and if things don't work then we reassess and change trajectories (sigh... again), but outwardly it looks to be the right direction for the club and the very least they can do is commit to it and see how it pans out. And that includes fans actually backing this club for a change. A lot of our fan base is pathetic Football Twitter types who unless we win 8-0 in a trailblazing fashion every week will always moan, and whinge, and target players or staff and it is getting far far worse. There were probably types who wanted us to sack Fergie and sell Ruud during that period but now they have platforms to spout that shite on and have multiplied massively.
Spot on. It’s gonna take some time but I can see what we’re trying to do. If you rewatch that Newcastle game, you see that we’re just off on so many things. Like a preseason game where everyone is just a second to late to every ball, constantly put too little or too much on the ball, individual mistakes left right and center. It was almost catching. Starting with Maguire and passing on to Ronaldo, Varane, Sancho, Rashford, Fred… you just can’t legislate for that. Like literally nothing came off. And every single one of Newcastle’s chances came from our mistake leading to them charging through us on the transition.

We will get it together though. I have faith in Ralf. The only thing I find concerning is his reliance on the same players. To be fair though, Mctominay has been playing much better in this system. Also I think Bruno can be reigned in and Pogba could be a real difference maker although of course he’s probably going. I’d love to see VDB brought into the team though cause we need someone to knit together the mid and attack and I don’t think we need Fred AND McTominay.

Ralf needs to be more ruthless and he needs a leader on the pitch to carry out his instructions and pull this team together. Because right now they’re acting like a bunch of babies on and off the pitch. They need some serious self reflection and self responsibility. Part of the problem is not owning their mistakes and being accountable. And our current captain is one of the worst. You lose the ball fine it happens. But you get on your bike and chase it. That’s how City and Liverpool are. All working for each other. That’s what we seriously lack. Ralf will get it together though.

In Ralf we trust.
 

sirAlexsglasses

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It took Klopp how many years to Instil this type of play, yet some already have the pitch forks out for RR already for gods sake. Look at what he has come in to, this isn’t an overnight fix, they have been that used to tipping up and simply winging it, that they were bound to struggle when someone with footballing intellect comes in with a plan.
 

Ixion

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Why does every one keep saying his style won’t work with McFred? They’re exactly the sort of midfielders he likes - very physical and capable of winning the ball high - Haidara who he apparently loves is a fecking Fred clone. Mctominay has also been very good the last two games - moving the ball quickly forward between the lines - our attacking players have been the issue. People just watch Goldbridge talking his usual shite and parrot it.
Fred got hooked at half time on Monday.
 

Shimo

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after the last 2 displays am really interested to see if RR will actually shake things up. So far been playing predictable starters but pretty much everyone bar Dalot and De Gea should be open season to be dropped. Can’t change whole team but at least there should be some show you will be dropped if you don’t work hard and play well. Doe not matter name in back of your jersey or having captain’s armband. Supposedly did that with sancho due to his body language in the Norwich game but needs to do it to players like Maguire, Rashford - who have been abysmal.

Players coming in need to come in with a real fire in their belly, knowing play like their lives depend on it and if they perform well, then they will keep their spot over those seemingly untouchable players.
 

groovyalbert

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I really like Rangnick and the way he talks about football, he is a modern football brain for a club in need of embracing modern football - even if that does ruffle a few feathers in the squad/at the club.

I do feel some are expecting too much, however. He's clearly talented but it is a little telling that he's never worked at a club anywhere near the size/expectations of Utd. The hopes of him coming close to what Klopp and Tuchel have done at their current respective clubs is hopeful indeed.
 

sparx99

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Just an example but when he took over Leipzig after Hassenhuttl, they went from conceding a ton of goals to becoming miserly.
Which we have and needed to. Clean sheets first then you can build on top of that. City were incredibly boring for the majority of their 15-game winning streak last season but it won them the league. A bunch of 1-0 wins isn’t the end of the world for now.
 

sparx99

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Yeah perhaps our board shouldn't have looked at Conte and thought Jose MK2, thought Ralf would have commanded respect but worried that isn’t the case at all

Already feels like they aren't prepared to work hard for him and he isn't getting the immediate impact Conte may have done.
The first few games under Conte were still awful. He has had a little bit longer than Ralf and it shows.
 

Trex

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I remember the last time I was played amateur football that was sometime in 2019, I played as a striker, in my first game I tried pressing the opponent hard, it was very effective, one of my pressing lead to us winning the ball and a teammate of mine scoring, but before the end of the first half I was totally tired, by Midway through the second half I was sub off without scoring, I didn't show it but I wasn't happy about it.
The next game I adapted, I tried to play more smartly, in possession made runs, playing on the shoulder of the last defender, out of possession I didn't press as much, I got a goal in every other game I played this way.
I think this what we see from Rashford, Greenwood, Ronaldo after the first 30mins vs palace.
They lack the fitness to put in a shift for 90 mins so they conserve, they simply can't play the rangnick way until they up their fitness and that wouldn't happen overnight
 

VanDeBank

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Everything about our club is terribly out of date. Ole put a band aid on it with ridiculous spending and motivational speeches.

We really need to back Ralf cleaning out the closet, but the player leaks have me thinking they smell he's vulnerable.

The problem is he's an interim with a meaningless (as of now) role upstairs lined up.

I've said it before, we went for the right bloke and put him in the wrong job.
 

bludsucker

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That's funny, because from what I've seen, it's mainly the Ole-outers that are now complaining about RR
This exactly. I feel it’s the same set of supporters who are baying for Rangnick blood who were after ole and were hoping for a new manager bounce after ole was sacked. They are disappointed because admitting that this squad has deficiencies is tantamount to admitting that they were wrong when they said that we have a world class squad and only need a competent manager and not a buffoon(ole) in charge.
 

noodlehair

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I think he talks a lot of sense and wasn't expecting an immediate impact just purely due to the mess we've been in all season. It's not like when Ole took over and it was a weight off the shoulders of the players. A high number of our players are being bogged down by their own awful form and the club allowed us to get humiliated multiple times over before changing anything.

The Newcastle performance was worrying but its far too early to put that on the manager. If people keep not doing their jobs and he keeps picking them then I'll start to worry quite quickly, but partly as Ole completely wore down the tolerance I had for that...but he hooked two off at half time the other day and one of the players he brought on was our best outfield player in the second.

Yeah perhaps our board shouldn't have looked at Conte and thought Jose MK2, thought Ralf would have commanded respect but worried that isn’t the case at all

Already feels like they aren't prepared to work hard for him and he isn't getting the immediate impact Conte may have done.
The thing with Conte is that Spurs still carried on looking shite for his first 3-4 games. They just managed to pick up results. Even now they're playing against 10 men seemingly constantly and yet struggling to win a match. Their best performance was probably against Liverpool and the main reason they didn't lose that was the ref not doing his job. So I wouldn't say there's anything to suggest we'd suddenly be tearing it up if we'd appointed him.

There's an almost constant obsession from United fans over other team's managers. If we'd got Conte every time we didn't win there'd be fawning over whoever Tottenham appointed instead of him.
 

Pogue Mahone

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Why does every one keep saying his style won’t work with McFred? They’re exactly the sort of midfielders he likes - very physical and capable of winning the ball high - Haidara who he apparently loves is a fecking Fred clone. Mctominay has also been very good the last two games - moving the ball quickly forward between the lines - our attacking players have been the issue. People just watch Goldbridge talking his usual shite and parrot it.
Agreed. The much more frequent vertical passing from McFred has been one of his most obvious early influences as a manager. The issues start with the players on the receiving end of those passes who have been absolutely shite. Just really dire individual performances, which are hard to legislate for.

I’m actually pleased Bruno is out against Burnley. He started the season in awful form and his head seems to have completely gone with all the drama around Ole getting sacked. And don’t get me started on Ronaldo…
 

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Why does every one keep saying his style won’t work with McFred? They’re exactly the sort of midfielders he likes - very physical and capable of winning the ball high - Haidara who he apparently loves is a fecking Fred clone. Mctominay has also been very good the last two games - moving the ball quickly forward between the lines - our attacking players have been the issue. People just watch Goldbridge talking his usual shite and parrot it.
Caf's herd mind controller, don't know how anyone willingly watches his moaning drivel.
 

Satsuma United

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There are a few players that probably will never play the way Ralf wants. They are individualists that can flourish under a Conte, Mourinho and saw great moments under Ole.

We know who they are, Bruno, Ronaldo, Rashford and really poor technical players like Fred.

Ralf will have to be serious and start signing players based on his philosophy but right he should start trusting the likes of Sancho and Van de Beek, two players that can really play a systematic way.
 

Ixion

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Funny. Not to long ago it was called excuses. Not that I don’t agree with him. But.
It can't be called excuses in less than a month, he has no input in the squad of players he has and only a small bit of input so far in how they're performing. If he's saying it in 3 years then its an excuse.
 

united for life

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I remember the last time I was played amateur football that was sometime in 2019, I played as a striker, in my first game I tried pressing the opponent hard, it was very effective, one of my pressing lead to us winning the ball and a teammate of mine scoring, but before the end of the first half I was totally tired, by Midway through the second half I was sub off without scoring, I didn't show it but I wasn't happy about it.
The next game I adapted, I tried to play more smartly, in possession made runs, playing on the shoulder of the last defender, out of possession I didn't press as much, I got a goal in every other game I played this way.
I think this what we see from Rashford, Greenwood, Ronaldo after the first 30mins vs palace.
They lack the fitness to put in a shift for 90 mins so they conserve, they simply can't play the rangnick way until they up their fitness and that wouldn't happen overnight
what’s worrying me is that someone like fred didn’t seem to press a lot the last couple of game.
 

Trex

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what’s worrying me is that someone like fred didn’t seem to press a lot the last couple of game.
Fred is usually a pressing maniac, he could easily keep up with Rangnick demands, if he isn't pressing maybe its just an attitude thing, maybe he is fed up with the him teammates body language, I didn't notice it though.
 

lysglimt

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What worries me is that after so few games, I don't see any improvement from what already wasn't good enough. Not even the new manager bounce teams often get.
 

Teja

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I'm still backing him. It's clear what they're trying to do even if it doesn't come off right now.

The pressing is a bit disjointed but it's getting there - mid table fodder just go long on goalkicks because they're worried already. No more playing it out the back against us.

We're also trying to play it forward extremely quickly and sometimes a bit of composure / quality in the middle would be nice but I think that can be addressed. The team also was extremely slow to get up the pitch after trying to progress quickly and losing the ball - some players sprinting up the field, some just jogging up, leaving lots of gaps. Possibly a fitness issue but it can be solved as well.

Some player selection issues like Rashford on RW etc. but I think he'll figure out what his best side is, who he trusts vs doesn't etc soon enough.
 

glazed

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What were people expecting to happen? We are switching to an entirely new playing style and we still have a mess of squad. It's going to take ages to sort this out. I imagine he will buy a decent midfielder in January which will make a big difference. Eventually we will let Ronaldo go which will also help.

Right now we are in a big transition. The people who thought we would magically turn into Liverpool overnight were always delusional.
 

NewUser777

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It can't be called excuses in less than a month, he has no input in the squad of players he has and only a small bit of input so far in how they're performing. If he's saying it in 3 years then its an excuse.
Ohh, I agree. And the covid situation didn’t exactly help.
 

charlenefan

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United had consecutive top 4 finishes in the last two seasons under Solksjaer. We even started this season reasonably well.

The wheels only started to come off some time after the beginning of the season. You'd have expected the new manager bounce to overcome it, but even Rangnick hasn't been enough to get the wheels back on.

With all the old coaches gone, the common denominator between Ole's last days and RR's first days is the dressing room. There's literally nothing else it could be. Something is rotten in the state of Old Trafford.

If I had to guess, I think it's a power imbalance among the senior players. Ronaldo's arrival has changed the pecking order and nobody seems to know who's responsible for what. The attackers now all seem to be more individualistic than ever - like they all want to outshine each other rather than help each other. It's probably becuase there's so much confusion about what the new roles are.

Obviously, the tactics don't help either. The 4-2-2-2 significantly blunts Bruno. And when he's unhappy, everything seems to fall apart.

I supported Rangnick's idea to make sweeping changes on day 1. But in hindsight, this group of players needed something less radical to nurse them through the transition. I think we should try the 4-2-3-1 again, and give Ronaldo some time on the bench. We need to take baby steps, with only one or two new ideas being introduced every week.
I'm actually really concerned about what RR has done to the club in his short time in charge, say what you want about Ole and the 'job for the boys' but they brought the club back from a dark place under Mourinho and it feels like coupled with the results of the last couple of months under Ole and now RR's sweeping changes (behind the scenes and on the pitch) I worry it's erasing all the good Ole did do for the first 2.5 years

Ole outers will never give him any credit and will lay the blame on him even for the results now but even in those last couple of months under Ole after 4-1 defeats to Leicester we got a 3-2 win over Atalanta, after a 5-0 loss to Liverpool we got the 3-0 win over Spurs, there's been absolutely nothing from the team over these last 4 games in fact post wheels coming off the only relatively consistent ray of hope we had was the 3 games under Carrick

This season is already a write off, it'll probably go down as the worst post SAF (and that's going some given what we've seen since Fergie). I just hope we get the right man in the summer and we can quickly turn things back around and this season doesn't inflict too much permanent long term damage
 

united for life

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What worries me is that after so few games, I don't see any improvement from what already wasn't good enough. Not even the new manager bounce teams often get.
add to that the fact that Ralf’s first run of games is relatively easy
 

90 + 5min

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One of the worst team of the league, can’t pretend miracles

Just shows you how hard working our players are. They let brilliant tactician vanGaal down, they made Mourinho lose his mind, they let Solskjaer down. And We are expecting something else? Rangnick need time. And miracle to get these players perform week after week.
 
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