spot on
expect this 6 months to be primarily a swot analysis to support a strategy to move forward.
the Weaknesses and Threats sections will be a long read!!!
Ralf Rangnick | ex-interim manager | does anyone rate him?
- Thread starter RonaldoVII
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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expect this 6 months to be primarily a swot analysis to support a strategy to move forward.
the Weaknesses and Threats sections will be a long read!!!
To be perfectly honest, the squad lacks any real cohesive shape, probably take a couple of transfer windows to shift and recruit players to build any sort of style to threaten the top end of the EPL.
Patience is not something that is easy to utilise given the years we have waited for some sensible recruitment under Woodward’s love for clicks and Disneyland players. Ragnick needs to stay on the course and set the side up for the next few years, not going to get much better than 4 to 6 with the current roster.
Patience is not something that is easy to utilise given the years we have waited for some sensible recruitment under Woodward’s love for clicks and Disneyland players. Ragnick needs to stay on the course and set the side up for the next few years, not going to get much better than 4 to 6 with the current roster.
For sure, it takes a lot more than 3 weeks to polish a turd of this magnitude
LVG Redux
I loved LVG's press conferences to be honest
This is nonsense. No one was crying we didn't get Nuno or Lampard.
We had a free run at Conte when he was available, we continued with mediocrity instead.
We could've sacked Ole when Tuchel was available as well.
The difference is Conte is a proven winner and anyone with a set of eyeballs could see Tuchel knew what he was doing at PSG.
Not going to waste my time or space.
I just don’t think you can tbh. More interested in simply discrediting others and spelling words incorrectly.
Utd players said they found it hard to follow Moyes at the time because of his lack of success.
It’s a very very very valid point to assume players who have won numerous titles would find it hard to take direction from coaches who’ve never coached at a top club.
Yet that’s somehow too ridiculous for you to spend time discrediting. Just admit you have nothing
Have Shaw, AWB, Fred, McTominay, Sancho, Greenwood, Rashford etc. won numerous titles? You're comparing them to Vidic, Carrick, Rooney, Evra, RVP, Giggs with the Moyes comparison. This United group is not like the one Moyes took charge of.
And suggesting the likes of Cavani won't listen to him is absurd. You see it every time Cavani steps on the pitch he gives everything and does what is asked.
I am sure United have looked into all of this. Please tell me what words I have spelled wrong if that is all you can come back at me with. You are like a little schoolboy.
Early career[edit]
Rangnick began his coaching career in the 1980s, first as player-coach at his hometown club Viktoria Backnang, then continuing on to play and coach at VfB Stuttgart II and TSV Lippoldsweiler.[14]
In 1988, he became the head coach at SC Korb, remaining for two seasons before returning to VfB Stuttgart for four seasons to manage the Under 19 team. In 1991, he won the U-19 Bundesliga (German: A-Junioren Bundesliga), the highest honor in German U-19 football. Rangnick then returned to first team management in 1995 with two seasons as head coach at SSV Reutlingen 05.[15] He took the club to a fourth place finish in his first season.[16] They began the following campaign strong, with the club in the midst of the promotion push by Christmas. However, Rangnick would not see the season to its finish as he was sought after by his former club Ulm in January 1997.[17] Reutlingen were in fifth position when Rangnick left the club.[18]
His first match in charge of Ulm finished in a 2–0 loss to Greuther Fürth.[19] Ulm were also positioned in the Regionalliga Süd, and although Rangnick could only manage a sixth-place position from the remainder of the 1996–97 season, they started the following season with a 3–1 win against Karlsruher SC II.[20][21] They won the Regionalliga Süd Championship in 1998.[22] Rangnick adapted well to life in the 2. Bundesliga, and Ulm mounted a strong promotion push that led them to the Bundesliga for the first time in their history in 2000.
During the winter break of his second season, he signed a deal to move to top flight VfB Stuttgart for the next season. This was supposed to remain secret until the end of the season, but in February it was leaked out into public knowledge. This caused an outcry, especially as the team began to lose ground in the table, and by the end of March, Rangnick resigned from the post prematurely[17] and, on 3 May 1999, took control of Stuttgart[23] for the club's final five matches.[24] His final match was a 2–0 loss to SpVgg Unterhaching.[25][26]
VfB Stuttgart[edit]
On 3 May 1999, Rangnick took control of VfB Stuttgart,[23] for the final five games[24] and saw the club finish 1998–99 season in 11th place.[27] He won two out of the club's five final matches.[24] His first match was a 2–0 loss to Bayern Munich.[24] Rangnick was now first team coach at the club he had served as a player and coached at amateur and under 19 level previously. His first full season in the 1999–2000 Bundesliga saw the club finish in a respectable eighth position.[28] The following season was much tougher, however the team succeeded in making the round of 16 in the 2000–01 UEFA Cup after winning the UEFA Intertoto Cup, and the semi-finals of the DFB-Pokal. Nonetheless, Stuttgart's Bundesliga form left them hovering in the relegation zone by the halfway point. After their European exit in February 2001, Stuttgart dismissed Rangnick.[29] His final match was 2–1 loss to Celta de Vigo in the UEFA Cup on 22 February 2001.[30] Stuttgart were in 17th place at the time of his sacking.[31] Rangnick finished with a record of 36 wins, 16 draws and 34 losses.[23]
Hannover 96[edit]
The next season brought a new post, as Rangnick took over 2. Bundesliga side Hannover 96 on 23 May 2001.[32] His first match was a 1–1 draw against Union Berlin on 30 July 2001.[33] His first season was a complete success as they romped home as champions and were promoted to the Bundesliga after a 13-year absence.[34] Their first season back at the top level saw them consolidate with an 11th-place finish,[35] but, as their form nosedived in the second half of the 2003–04 season, Rangnick was dismissed following a 0–1 defeat at Borussia Mönchengladbach in March 2004.[36] Hannover were in 15th place at the time of his sacking.[37] Rangnick finished with a record of 44 wins, 22 draws and 32 losses.[38]
Schalke 04[edit]
After missing out on the role as assistant manager for the German national team to Joachim Löw, Rangnick was hired by Schalke 04 on 28 September 2004,[39] after Jupp Heynckes left just weeks into the 2004–05 season. Rangnick again tasted European action as the club had earned a UEFA Cup spot via the UEFA Intertoto Cup. His first match was in the UEFA Cup.[40] Schalke won 4–0 against Metalurgs Liepājas.[40] He led them through the group phase, but they exited in the knockout rounds to Shakhtar Donetsk.[40] However, the DFB-Pokal was to prove more successful, as Rangnick took the club to the final, where they fell 2–1 to Bayern Munich.[40] Bayern would also pip Rangnick's side in the league as Schalke ended as runners-up.[41]
The next season started well, with Rangnick defeating former club VfB Stuttgart 1–0 and securing the 2005 DFL-Ligapokal.[42] Their second-place league finish of the previous year had also qualified them for the 2005–06 UEFA Champions League, Rangnick's first entry into the prestigious competition. However, the team would fail to progress beyond the group stage, and sat ten points off the pace in the Bundesliga,[43] as well as having crashed 0–6 in the DFB-Pokal to Eintracht Frankfurt.[42] Shortly before the winter break, these results prompted the club to dismiss Rangnick on 12 December 2005.[44] He left with a record of 36 wins, 15 draws and 14 losses.[45]
1899 Hoffenheim[edit]
Rangnick with Hoffenheim in 2007
Rangnick's next appointment as head coach was at 1899 Hoffenheim of the Regionalliga Süd for the 2006–07 season.[46] His first match was a 2–2 draw against 1860 Munich II on 5 August 2006.[47] The team instantly won promotion and played the 2007–08 season in the 2. Bundesliga for their first time in their history.[48] The stay in the 2. Bundesliga was short, as a second-place finish for Hoffenheim in 2007–08 earned the club, and Rangnick, promotion to the Bundesliga for the 2008–09 season.[49] They also reached the quarter-finals of the DFB-Pokal.[50] During the 2008–09 season, Hoffenheim reached the second round of the DFB-Pokal.[51] In the first half of the season, Hoffenheim won 35 out of 51 available points,[52] however in the second half, the club won only 20 out of 51 points to drop down to seventh place.[52][53]
During the 2009–10 season, Hoffenheim reached the quarter-finals of the DFB-Pokal.[54] Hoffenheim finished in 11th place in the Bundesliga.[55] On 2 January 2011, Rangnick resigned as head coach of Hoffenheim, citing the sale of midfielder Luiz Gustavo to Bayern Munich, of which he had not been informed, as his reason for resigning from the club.[56][57] Rangnick's final match was a 2–0 win against Borussia Mönchengladbach on 21 December 2010 in the DFB-Pokal.[58] Hoffenheim were in eighth place when Rangnick left the club.[59] Rangnick finished with a record of 79 wins, 43 draws and 44 losses.[60]
Return to Schalke 04[edit]
In March 2011, Rangnick was named as the replacement for Felix Magath as coach of Schalke 04.[61] His first match was a 2–0 forfeit win against FC St. Pauli on 1 April 2011.[62] The game was stopped in the 89th minute after a beer mug was thrown at the assistant, overshadowing Rangnick's successful debut at Millerntor. At the time of the cancellation, Schalke was leading 2–0.[63] Just weeks after being named the new Schalke coach, Rangnick led his old club to their first UEFA Champions League semi-finals by defeating holders Inter Milan 7–3 on aggregate.[64] However, Schalke were eliminated by Manchester United in the semi-finals.[65]
Schalke began the 2011–12 season by defeating Borussia Dortmund in a shootout in the 2011 DFL-Supercup.[66] On 22 September 2011, Rangnick stepped down as Schalke's coach due to chronic fatigue syndrome, stating he did not have "the necessary energy to be successful and to develop the team and the club".[67][68][69] He finished with a record of ten wins, three draws and ten losses.[45]
RB Leipzig[edit]
Rangnick managing RB Leipzig in 2018
In February 2015, Rangnick announced he would be taking over as coach at RB Leipzig for the 2015–16 season. Achim Beierlorzer took over until the end of the season following the immediate resignation of Alexander Zorniger. In addition, Rangnick resigned as director of football of Red Bull Salzburg.[70] His first match was a 1–0 win against FSV Frankfurt on 25 July,[71] and Rangnick secured promotion to the Bundesliga with the win against Karlsruher SC on 8 May 2016.[72][73] On 16 May, Leipzig announced Ralph Hasenhüttl would take over from Rangnick.[74] Rangnick finished with a record of 21 wins, 7 draws and 8 losses.[75]
On 9 July 2018, Rangnick took over, once again, as coach of RB Leipzig.[76][77] He won his first match on his return 4–0 against Swedish club Häcken in the second qualifying round of the Europa League.[78][79] RB Leipzig eventually won the tie 5–1 on aggregate.[80] They then eliminated Universitatea Craiova in the third qualifying round.[81] The first domestic match (and victory) came against Viktoria Köln in the German Cup,[78] as Leipzig won the match 3–1.[82] Leipzig's first Bundesliga match took place on 26 August 2018.[78] Leipzig lost to Borussia Dortmund 4–1.[83] Leipzig qualified for the Europa League group stage after knocking out Zorya Luhansk with a 3–2 aggregate score in the play-off round.[84] In the group stage, they were drawn against RB Salzburg, Celtic, and Rosenborg,[85] finishing 3rd position in group stage.
Notwithstanding, the club ended the season 3rd in Bundesliga, qualified to the UEFA Champions League for the 2019–20 season, and reached the DFB-Pokal final, losing to Bayern Munich. Rangnick finished his second term as coach with a record of 29 wins, 13 draws and 10 losses.[75]
In fairness I have far more sympathy with Rangnick than the other three as they identified, signed, trained, developed and/or regularly played the majority of the players who let them down by a lack of effort.
Ole regularly talked about wanting the hardest working team in the league; but also regularly fielded Pogba, Rashford, Greenwood, Martial etc; he also signed players who you wouldn't say are suited to an aggressive style such as Sancho, AWB, Ronaldo & Maguire. Mourinho likewise signed and regularly played the likes of Lukaku, Matic, Pogba etc. The less we say about the transfer record of Van Gaal the better.
Fundamentally if we want a hard working team we can't keep signing skillful but lazy or past it players (Pogba, Matic, Lukaku, Ronaldo, Martial, Sanchez, arguably Sancho) and we can't keep playing players who are regularly putting in lazy performances (Rashford, Greenwood etc).
At the same time Rangnick can't come in and play a front four of Cavani, Lingard, Elanga and Fernandes. He needs to give everyone a chance to up their work rate; the chances are in fairness for most it isn't a conscious decision to be lazy at this stage. They've been in a culture of low work rate for years so their bodies simply won't be able to cope with an aggressive pressing style twice a week after very little training. Rangnick also has a problem as he needs to tread a fine line between getting them up to the fitness required to carry out his instructions whilst having them fresh enough come match day to physically do it.
We're still watching players identified, signed, developed and trained by Mourinho/Ole and their staff so it's obvious we'll be seeing the same old problems.
If Bayern players can work with Nagelsman I'm sure United players can work with Rangnick. It shouldn't be just about past success but also what you bring to the table right now.
I agree with you about the players and have been saying that we don’t need to sign players like Pogba, Sanchez, Sancho and so on. I hope of course that they do well but We need different kind of players. Hard working. You think of past players We Signed like Park and Valencia. They are class above lot of players We have today. Even those who are supposed to be ”world class” by fans and media.
I agree. Sooner have a player who gives you 110% and cost little, than a player with an ego who gives you nothing and costs a fortune.
The gulf in quality between City/Pool and us in certain positions such as fullback and CM is mindboggling. You cannot do wonders with McFred and AWB/Dalot, they are just very ordinary PL players on a Crystal Palace level. And then Rashford and Bruno are out of form and Sancho is struggling with the PL pace. Not much quality left then and I doubt Pep would finish within 10p of City with our squad if he were our manager.
Ralf is better than Ole but we should have acted earlier and gone with Conte.
Ralf is better than Ole but we should have acted earlier and gone with Conte.
A lot more entertaining than his teams.
I understand that you do, but you also need to understand the primery target groups for a press conferance.
Target groups:
• Players
• Supporters
• Administration/Owners
• Journalist/Press
Pending on your stratgey, you will prioritize what you say and how you say it differently. Brutal honesty might make you very popular with the supporters, but it also might give you a hugh backlash with the players loosing trust and belife in you — or that they loose self confidence (hello Shaw) becouse of to much negative feedback in public.
The press wants headlines and conflict. So, there you have another problem with brutal honesty.
And pending on the structure of the club you also will be talking to the people that keeps you in the job. So you can here think of the difference in strategy between Ole, Mourinho, Ragnick, LVG, Moyes and Fergurson.
Ole clearly always priorized the players, while Mourinho used it as a channel to lay pressure on the admin/owners to get what he wanted.
On top of that, in post match interviews feelings might run high pending on pressure, what happend in the game and if it was an important match. This is probably when you have the best chance as a manager to make impact with what you say becouse everyone will be listening with interrest. Players especially. And, you cant be dull. Nobody likes a leader to be dull, that is the worst thing you can be.
The manager holds the conferance as the leader of the group. He is responsibel, therefor any leader that dont own up to their part of the responsibilty will very fast run out of steam. Honesty is therefor much more than assesing individual players and bits and parts of the game.
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Let's the put the full context , shall we ? They were leaking lot of goals and the first thing he did was make to them solid defensively.
For us , there is no option at all. We leaked 15 + goals in 3 matches .
Leaked footage of Rangnick arriving at training this morning after yesterday’s media leaks
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Huh? U just repeated what I said. Not sure what context I missed.
We lost out on conte not once but twice in favour of ole both times, that is how bad the decision making is at the club. When mourinho was sacked conte was available and we had the perfect team for him as seen over the past few seasons when he was buying a load of them when he was at inter and then there was the most recent example of snubbing him when the club thought it was ok that the club being humiliated by our two biggest rivals.
Based on what he has achieved as a manager, ragnick is a moyes type of manager with a better style of play, he can build a club up very well but now for the first time in his career he is having to manage players with big reputations and influence. I hope he doesn't flounder in stamping his authority but not overly confident he can as he has few things going against him like being just an interim manager and not having the same type of reputation or trophies behind like a klopp, pep, tuchel, conte, ancelotti etc..
Erm there was near constant crying on here about how much better Lampard was than Ole? Right up until Lampard got sacked for being worse than him.
I thought Ole should have gone in the summer and it was ridiculous he survived the Liverpool game but that isn't really the point. The point is if we'd got Conte we'd probably still have been a bit shite for his first month or two and people would be in here moaning about why we didn't get someone else.
The fact we kept Ole for so long is also now irrelevant unless you have a means to time travel backwards through ed Woodward's dreams and incept the idea of sacking ole sooner.
What anyone was expecting Rangnick to do in 3 games I don't know. I mean he's won 2 of them and the only other game was a meaningless cl fixture which he used to give players minutes and realise some of them probably shouldn't be given many more.
Conte's first few games as Tottenham manager consisted of an awful drawn game at Everton, a dodgy home win against Leeds where they were awful for over half the game, and the most embarrassing performance I've seen from any team all season (which is saying something as I've watched all our games) that got them knocked out of Europe. And frankly even since then their performances haven't exactly been convincing. That's not to say Conte isn't a good manager but on what basis you think he'd be able to have magically turned around everything in the time Rangnick has had I don't know. You're basing it on nothing except apparently just shouting "nonsense" at anyone who might not agree.
If we get 2 months down the line and we're still lumbering about looking clueless and still picking the same team/system, then it'll be fairly obvious Rangnick isn't up to it, but even putting it like that is a pointlessly negative perspective. Particularly as we're not exactly going to sack him before the end of the season anyway.
This is ignoring also that Rangnick has inherited the somewhat unsolvable issue of having a completely broken midfield where he either has to play Fred and Mctominay in EVERY game, or rely on Matic who wouldn't get a game for any other PL team due to being so off the pace. No manager can solve this problem without us signing a midfielder and it was always going to screw up our season with it being so blatant that Pogba has no interest in being here.
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My bad mate. Thought you were complaining about not scoring enough.
Moving the goal posts. Fact remains no one actually wanted us to hire Lampard. Because he hadn't proven he was a great manager (like Conte) or didn't look like he could be (Tuchel).
You claimed we only want X manager because he manages our rivals now. Wrong, we want X manager because they're proven or we think they could be really good (Tuchel last year, or EtH now).
I don't disagree a new manager needs some time, but that wasn't what I responded to.
No I’m not. My original point didn’t name any of those players, but specific others
I never mentioned Rangnick so you’ve clearly misunderstood.
And it was “you’re”
This thread is full of nonsense from some people. RR has barely had any time at the club and people are judging him already. This is the guy who influenced Klopp, Tuchel etc, just as Bielsa influenced Guardiola, Poch etc. He's renown for being able to modernise a club from root to branch. Which is what Utd need.
I have no doubts, that he will still be in the job next season, I have said it before. You dont get backroom staff to uproot and come to a new country, disturb their families for 5 months. Unless things go disastrously wrong, they will extend him into next season. Tbh, they should have given him 18mths to give him more authority over the players. Some players will no doubt think, 6 months and this guy is gone and tick over. Even if he does go upstairs next season, the style of football he's trying to implement will follow on, into the next manager. If Poch did come in then there wouldnt be a drastic change in style for example.
I'm excited to see what he can do, but he needs time. A game every 3 days doesnt leave much time on the training ground to implement ideas. Ideally you need preseason for that.
I have no doubts, that he will still be in the job next season, I have said it before. You dont get backroom staff to uproot and come to a new country, disturb their families for 5 months. Unless things go disastrously wrong, they will extend him into next season. Tbh, they should have given him 18mths to give him more authority over the players. Some players will no doubt think, 6 months and this guy is gone and tick over. Even if he does go upstairs next season, the style of football he's trying to implement will follow on, into the next manager. If Poch did come in then there wouldnt be a drastic change in style for example.
I'm excited to see what he can do, but he needs time. A game every 3 days doesnt leave much time on the training ground to implement ideas. Ideally you need preseason for that.
One thing for absolutely certainty is that this job is one of the hardest in the world right through to the clubs recruitment contract situation attitude with players etc. I could not care less is if we lost 6 nil today I still would not blame Ralph, we have had various managers and we keep coming back to the players every time, this time there are mumblings of not wanting to run and implement a system.
Players given massive contracts and too much control. Rashfords face up on the wall at carrington next to Roy Keane, Robson giggs and beckham. He has not earned his face on the wall yet but still it’s there and he is on 300k a week and he isn’t worth 50.
Ragnick has my support it’s the players who need to show themselves not rangnick he unlike 95 percent of our players, he has a recognised legacy within football, not think they’ve made it already.
Players given massive contracts and too much control. Rashfords face up on the wall at carrington next to Roy Keane, Robson giggs and beckham. He has not earned his face on the wall yet but still it’s there and he is on 300k a week and he isn’t worth 50.
Ragnick has my support it’s the players who need to show themselves not rangnick he unlike 95 percent of our players, he has a recognised legacy within football, not think they’ve made it already.
I think bringing Ragnick on was the right move and given time he can implement his vision and get better results. That said, Monday should be a wake-up call that this bunch of players are not up to the task and changes will have to be made.
I'd start by naming a new captain because ours isn't one in any sense of the word.
I'd start by naming a new captain because ours isn't one in any sense of the word.
I think this is a very important point, our players won't be fit enough to press the way Ralf wants them to for weeks. I read an article many years ago about how players' bodies suffer from top flight football, Evans was saying how he'd be laid up in bed the day after a game from the exertion, and this was before pressing was as popular.
It's asking a lot to ask someone to do that to themselves, I'm not sure Ole was up to demanding that level of effort, and I think some players will be hesitant to go back to playing that hard (like they had to before they were under Ole). It doesn't help that Ralf is only in the job for 6 months, some may feel he's not a big enough name and will soon be gone, they can outlast him. Hopefully we make it clear that even if Ralf isn't coach in 6 months that we are only going to play players that fight like Red Devils.
Really? I thought Bruno and Rashford are the players he would like the most ..
Van de Beek is not that good .. please get away with that savior thing..he will be sold ..
No doubt Ralf hasn't had enough time but can anyone explain how much time anyone needs to know that Marcus Rahford has not shown signs of anything for weeks and still picks him over Sancho. This is what worries me.
The idea that coaching can make a huge difference overnight is ludicrous. Over a few months, maybe. But he said before he came that the midfield is weak and that won’t change much until we recruit some quality there.
I think Ralf is wise enough to let the squad show their true level to the board. A wholesale clear out isn't in the cards so he will slowly make the best of what is available to him. It will take a couple of years to replace some of the dross currently in the squad and that mainly comes down to the silly contract renewals and transfers that we have made over the last few years making it impossible to get rid. If we can make top four which right now seems in jeopardy, then someone like Ten Haag can work with Ralf to slowly restructure. When I look at this squad I find it hard to see longterm anybody that is a definite name worthy to be on the first team lineup week in week out other than DDG and perhaps Greenwood if he realizes his potential. Hopefully he can develop the young players to his style because some of the older players are beyond redemption IMO.
Then please explain how this shit attitude the players have enabled them to fight back so many times last season.
Something has changed this season, it wasn't like this last time. Hopefully Ralf can give them a kick up the arse and get them playing again.
He’s managed what? 3 league games, and started Sancho in 2 of those. I expect tonight it’ll be 3 from 4.
No idea who Goldbridge is to be honest but I managed to work out that McFred are not good enough all by myself.
So you're specifically saying Ronaldo, Cavani and Varane won't listen to Rangnick?
He's the guy behind The United Stand fan channel
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