Just for the short term this season so we get CL football. It was the best we could have hoped for imo.
Ralf Rangnick | ex-interim manager | does anyone rate him?
- Thread starter RonaldoVII
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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do you remember what ole served us, Pool City Watford Aston Villa Leicester.
We do not need new manager bounce ( We saw with Ole) we need genuine, longterm change. No pain no gain.
This is the perfect way. Even in life genuine change is never easy rosy thing.
couldnt agree more. This club needs massive changes and getting rid of the negativity and players who want out is the first step.
This clown obviously didn't watch Sancho much at Dortmund then.
I'm sorry but how can you reel off that list and then say 'looking forward to a Pogba return'? He's been guilty of all those things at various times since he returned here. He should have been given his marching orders a long time ago. He's a clown with no football IQ. He's everything this team doesn't need, this team needs honest, hard working players to try to pick up the slack for the other lazy, disinterested idiots on the pitch. Yes Pogba has talent and 1 in 5 of his attempts to hold off the entire opposition midfield every game may result in a counter opportunity, but he won't solve a damn thing for us.
I was all for Ten Hag a couple of months ago, but now the mask has slipped on these players, and we can see how poor their attitude is, I just think they'd take him for a ride. He's not a big name or a big personality that will have authority over this lot. And good luck trying to teach them his own strict tactical plans...I don't think this group of players are capable of carrying out any tactical instruction as a collective.
This is the only explanation I came come up with as well. The press in the first game worked reasonably well despite none of the players (apart from Sancho) having much experience of a pressing style of football. It just died after about 35 minutes when the players were gassed. Since then there has been almost no pressing. I don't know if that first game was just a test to see how long we could do it for and the results spoke volumes.
Hes not exactly the sharpest tool in the shed is he. Sancho played for years in a team that presses as a unit and Greenwood (and every other player) should do what they are ******* told. If they are told to press then they should press or be dropped. Pressing at its core is very simple. Pressing well as a team is much harder but through coaching its very possible to learn. Its not like asking a player to learn how to run much faster, turn quicker, pass like De Bruyne etc.
Tbh in order to sort this squad out and get rid of those primadonas I don't mind the results at all as long as we don't get relegated. Top 4 is very unlikely. I don't like EL, I don't like the conference league even more so bad results might be a blessing in disguise at the end of the day.
Ideally he should spend the summer getting rid of those who can't or don't want to adapt. Then bring in some youth. It may take another year to get the squad to gel and play modern football. But it'll worth it in the long run imo. Us fans always demand instant results and look at where and what that got us after eight years? Another mess after another, rinse and repeat.
But to do that he absolutely needs fulll support from both the board and fans. Based on the reaction of our fans so far imo it'll probably ok, most of us, at least on redcafe seem to acknowledge the issue and agree to support him to process the purge.
But I'd seriously doubt the board and the upper hierarchy, given how Ronaldo keep starting despite his horrendous form and being clearly past it. If we want to do it right, imo we'd definitely need both the full support for Ralf and a meritocracy system.
That shit gets passed down over the years if it isn't rooted out, and I don't think it ever really has been.
I totally agree with what you are saying.
RR is not at fault here, its clear who is at fault, the players. The problem is the senior players are the problem at United. Bruno, Ronaldo, Maguire, Rashford, Matic Lingard are all the problem.
Ronaldo has scored a few tap ins under Ralf and been probably a 2/10 in most games since he took over, yet he starts. This is where I will question the manager.
He says he has watched our games, then he should know, Matic is not good enough. The midfield is not good enough, instead of then playing 4-4-2 we need more in midfield because we dont control games.
Its really poor from the players, I will not back any player in this squad, because all they will do is stab you in the back, they done it to Jose, Ole and I can guarantee they'll do it to RR.
He's not a big name, but he's very authoritative. Also, there are no big name managers left apart from Zidane who isn't coming here anytime soon. I also don't think this squad will be fazed by a big name manager. Mourinho was one and he wasn't exactly a massive success here. Guardiola also didn't need to be a big name manager to whip that Barca squad in shape. What we need is someone of similar vein. A disciplinarian that expects nothing less than 100% of his players and if they don't like it, they're shown the door. I think Ten Hag reminds me most of that Guardiola. That's why he'll also going to give him a full pre-season - to weed out the dross and remove anyone who is not fully committed.
Agreed. If anything, should he bring in 2-3 young and value-for-money players to help him implement his tactics and they hit the ground running, this would be instant credit in the bank for RR and his overall plan. The fans will have something to hope for and the voices of discontent within the club will start getting less and less attention.
We have an interim manager that will be gone come summer.
Good post.
We continually sign so called top players for massive fees, only for them to fail to perform.
Just look at the Wolves players.
Always first to the ball and always on the move.
Yes you have to have quality.
But just as important is character and attitude.
Our scouting system is totally unfit for purpose. I mean. When was the last time we signed a really good value for money player.
Pogba, Martial, Alexis, Maguire and even Sancho....
All massively inflated fees.
Who probably is going to be involved in the set up at United and who would have a say in who the new manager is going to be.
He needs to grow balls and bench big players like Ronaldo or Maguire
I don't know if Ten Hag carries the aura that will gain respect instantly with the players here, afterall he's a manager who has had a success in the Dutch league only. Rangnick apparently has authority yet, here we are. Jose failed because he stood up to the players and the club and fans naively backed the players instead. As a club we need a manager that won't come in and feel the pressure of managing the club, will be brutal in his assessment and plans for the squad and, most importantly, will be 100% backed by the club.
If the next manager say Ronaldo, Bruno and Rashford need to go, the club can't hesitate or think 'what about our marketing opportunities?'. Football needs to come first and we need to cut out the rot in its entirety. No half measures or 'let's see if this manager can get a tune out of X, Y & Z to and change their mind about leaving' etc.
I hope he doesn't sign Haidara or whoever for £70 million and 350k a week.
I certainly hope he doesn’t either considering he has a £30m release clause.
Maybe.
Agreed, Ronaldo should not be starting the next game. Everyone in the forward line has been changed, no change. Time to drop Ronaldo and take it from there.
Oh goody, a reasonable transfer fee. I hope that doesn't mean we offer him a 450k a week contract.
but will our problems be gone in the summer?
Lets stop postponing our problems, what has to be done later let it be done now.
Same sentiment with Ole, we knew he will be gone but the timing of his departure was the issue, the earlier we did it the better we did let it drag for no benefit to the club.
Even now let what has to be done later be done now. clear the whole team now, it is the perfect time
I just think it's an easy explanation. Teams look like they have a poor mentality when they struggle and people talk them up when they are winning.
You are bottlers until you win something which isn't necessarily how things actually work. It's like England being labeled as bottlers for failing to win the Euros or World Cup semi-final while having Mount, Chilwell, Sterling, Walker, Henderson, etc all who have won leagues and champions leagues.
Did our team have a poor mentality when we won trophies under LVG and Mourinho? Finished 2nd last year? Or beat PSG in the CL? Or beat Man CIty 3-4 times under Ole?
A lot is going wrong right now but mentality and attitude aren't never-changing things. It's affected by results, squad dynamics, personal life, global pandemics, the weather, pressure, etc.
In what world did Klopp struggle in his first year or two at Liverpool. Some posters just make up stuff and actually believe it.
Say what you want about the players but Rangnick should have done a far better job than he is currently. We look no different to Ole and this certainly wouldn't be the case if we had Klopp for a month, so he needs to stop being used as an example.
Rangnick might not have the players to press which is obviously limits his system but its up to him to be adaptable and so far he's looked anything but, It's essentially been Ole 2.0. I'm not completely writing him off but if there's no obvious improvement by the end of the month then its on him and his coaching staff.
Say what you want about the players but Rangnick should have done a far better job than he is currently. We look no different to Ole and this certainly wouldn't be the case if we had Klopp for a month, so he needs to stop being used as an example.
Rangnick might not have the players to press which is obviously limits his system but its up to him to be adaptable and so far he's looked anything but, It's essentially been Ole 2.0. I'm not completely writing him off but if there's no obvious improvement by the end of the month then its on him and his coaching staff.
My point is that there is very little that can be done during the season, player sales and players buys are super difficult in January plus it's problematic to spend to much before you are even sure who the next manager is. If we fail to make top 4 that makes buying players all the more difficult. A new manager bounce would have been one of the few benefits imo. and it's a shame we didn't get it.
I'm not saying we made a mistake, just wandering given how badly things are going on and off the pitch if we wouldn't have been better served ending the season with the more familiar (Carrick, Ole) and restart in the summer when we can actually make moves. It can't be a good thing that the current manager was not in a position to even get his preferred staff and had to look to the MLS. I just don't see any positives for our situation right now.
Yes, agreed.
Hence why I was aghast at his pressing comment. What did he expect with a Matic-McTominay CM?
I didn’t say he would solve our problems. But, he’s easily the best central midfielder at the club and will likely improve us. Quite how much remains to be seen. Even a low level Pogba is better than anything else we have. This team needs a lot of things. Ability on the ball being paramount
I get what you mean. Personally though I think I would go with a 3 in midfield and just try to be a harder working unit overall. There's more than one way to skin a cat so either approach may or may not work, but I just feel Pogba is a bad player to add into this mess currently. He might hit some nice passes etc, but it's the times where he gets caught on the ball and the opposition hit us on the counter etc. Maybe he'd be better in one of the wider attacking mid positions but I just want to see the back of him in general anyway.
I do think thats what we need. Two new midfielders that are totally committed and loyal to Rangnick and his ideas, and not scared to have the ball.
I’m sure it’s been said several times (haven’t seen it any time recently but I don’t scroll back through all the pages given how many there are at the moment), but something that baffles me is this:
We pressed very intensely and quite cohesively (considering we’d had only one training session under RR) for about 20 mins at the start of the Crystal Palace match, and then never again as far as I can tell. I could sort of understand why we might lose the shape and intensity during that match itself, but i can’t really explain why we wouldn’t have seen it again since. Breaking it down, only one (or a combination of) the following could explain it, as far as I can see:
(1) Ralf instructed them not to do it any more
(2) Ralf instructed them to do it, but the players are not following the instruction
(3) We actually are pressing and I’m just not noticing it
Number (3) could be as simple as my eye not being trained enough to see the subtleties of when we’re trying to press, or it could be something more subtle like our opponents have studied those Palace minutes and figured out how to break that hastily arranged press, and we haven’t had time to train the players in how to counter that counter essentially.
The former I’d find hard to believe, as it was so obvious against Palace, not hard to see at all for anyone who watches football. The latter, I’m semi making up as I don’t actually know if it’s a thing, but I would have expected by now that RR would have had time to adjust at least for small parts of our recent matches. Also it’s not like whatever it is that we’ve been doing since then hasn’t resulted in our back four getting exposed, we haven’t been safety first at all.
Number (1) seems the least likely, firstly because it’s the main thing RR is known for, and second because the outcome from those Palace minutes was quite positive (we didn’t score during that period but it established a good pattern in the match for us). Some might suggest something along the lines of “Ralf realised he doesn’t have the players for it and changed tack”, but I wouldn’t believe that.
Number (2) I also find very unlikely, if they could respond to the instructions almost instantly, there’s very little reason why they would somehow decide never to do it again. There may be periods from the middle of halves say where our positioning gets disjointed and leads to some players not doing what they’re supposed to out of fear of getting exposed, but we would still see bursts of pressing at the start of halves.
We pressed very intensely and quite cohesively (considering we’d had only one training session under RR) for about 20 mins at the start of the Crystal Palace match, and then never again as far as I can tell. I could sort of understand why we might lose the shape and intensity during that match itself, but i can’t really explain why we wouldn’t have seen it again since. Breaking it down, only one (or a combination of) the following could explain it, as far as I can see:
(1) Ralf instructed them not to do it any more
(2) Ralf instructed them to do it, but the players are not following the instruction
(3) We actually are pressing and I’m just not noticing it
Number (3) could be as simple as my eye not being trained enough to see the subtleties of when we’re trying to press, or it could be something more subtle like our opponents have studied those Palace minutes and figured out how to break that hastily arranged press, and we haven’t had time to train the players in how to counter that counter essentially.
The former I’d find hard to believe, as it was so obvious against Palace, not hard to see at all for anyone who watches football. The latter, I’m semi making up as I don’t actually know if it’s a thing, but I would have expected by now that RR would have had time to adjust at least for small parts of our recent matches. Also it’s not like whatever it is that we’ve been doing since then hasn’t resulted in our back four getting exposed, we haven’t been safety first at all.
Number (1) seems the least likely, firstly because it’s the main thing RR is known for, and second because the outcome from those Palace minutes was quite positive (we didn’t score during that period but it established a good pattern in the match for us). Some might suggest something along the lines of “Ralf realised he doesn’t have the players for it and changed tack”, but I wouldn’t believe that.
Number (2) I also find very unlikely, if they could respond to the instructions almost instantly, there’s very little reason why they would somehow decide never to do it again. There may be periods from the middle of halves say where our positioning gets disjointed and leads to some players not doing what they’re supposed to out of fear of getting exposed, but we would still see bursts of pressing at the start of halves.
I think it's both (3) and either (1) or (2). We didn't do it consistently enough (I could be wrong) but it seems we applied pressure only if the full backs have the ball or when they tried to play from the back from goalkick (but their goalkick tend to be long kick). I had seen times and times that we applied pressing result in opposition players are forced to just kick the ball non-sense but afterwards we didn't win the second ball while the opposition players won all the second ball. Or could this be because we don't have Fred who is mobile and good in high pressing?? My biggest disappointment is actually not our pressing but the fact we keep giving away cheaply and lose the ball easily. We need to do better in controlling the game and play better ball in final third.
But Ralf keeps on saying that he wants to press. I think it is more of a number 2 and now the news coming out of United makes me feel it is more on the players.
He has my full support and if he wants to ship any player out then by all means do it BUT if he wants to make it easier on himself he should be trying to disassociate his side from Ole's more. Maguire, McTominay, Ronaldo being undroppable, VDB not getting a look in, Greenwood's progress being overlooked for Ronaldo/Cavani, AWB having a stinker and still keeping his place over Dalot, players not pressing... there's a bunch of things that maybe he can't control but just make things seem too similar to Ole's reign. The VDB one inparticular stands out, I'd try and give him some minutes specifically to show hey I've got this guy playing OK that the other guy couldn't but as it is it makes me think someone else is making decisions.
I hope he becomes more ruthless with the players and not rewarding poor performances.
I hope he becomes more ruthless with the players and not rewarding poor performances.
That 30 mins vs Palace will be remembered in the history books at Old Trafford. Ralf achieved what he wanted for 30 mins at least 
Getting them to replicate it is going to take a long time.
Getting them to replicate it is going to take a long time.
It's going to go down in Old Trafford folklore along with the 30 minutes that LVG had us playing well against Leicester, and the good game that DVB had in some cup game against some opponent no-one can even remember.That 30 mins vs Palace will be remembered in the history books at Old Trafford. Ralf achieved what he wanted for 30 mins at least
Getting them to replicate it is going to take a long time.
Palace were rubbish at the start of the game and very easy to press against. They kept trying to pass it out from the back despite being terrible at it. Probably to do with them missing key players and also not expecting us to press so high. They stopped trying to pass it out second half and our press stopped being effective then as well.
I never liked managers who don’t give the instructions during the game if there is something going wrong. Ralf as good as he is claimed to be just stand there doing nothing just watching the shitshow getting unfold. You can’t tell me it doesn’t matter. It’s no coincidence that all the top managers Pep, klopp, tuchel, Conte, simeone giving out the instructions all the time from the sidelines if it isn’t going accordingly. Either Rangnick has no authority over these primadonnas or he is out of his depth as a manager at this level. After all he seems so surprised by the quality of even relegation fighting teams. Whatever the reason might be it’s all so disheartening at the moment. I atleast expected abit of improvement after 5-6 weeks. Not a lot but atleast 20-30% improvement.
Yup. Viera even admitted that he didn't know how we were going to lineup and play so palace were a mess tactically. Quickly sorted it out though and let's not forget, Ayew missed an absolute sitter to put them 1-0 ahead. With our fragile mentality, had that gone in we'd definitely have lost.
Next match is in the FA Cup so the likes of Ronaldo will be rested anyway.
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