No pain, no gain. I did not expect a smooth transition. So nothing that is happening is surprising to me thus far.
Ralf Rangnick | ex-interim manager | does anyone rate him?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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Yeah but who is picking them? The formation is completely wrong for the personnel being picked. Simple. Then he’s compounding that mistake with the wrong subs. Not looking good right now that’s for sure.
Isn't some of what's happening inevitable?
I don't necessarily mean the results, more the 11 taking the field at any given moment currently.
As a new manager you kind of have to start with a clean slate and can't really start off not playing the more expensive players. So Dalot may have been better than AWB but you still have to play AWB until it proves it doesn't work. During that "prove" period things could go wrong. But is there any way around it initially?
Think Ralf will be looking to change things after his initial six months. But that six months will be trial and failure to a degree?
Even of he realizes that the majority of the squad needs gone he won't be able to sell all and buy a new team.
It's going to be a long process and I think we will see some bad results before we see gains. Basically a rebuild. Do we need to be patient? And for how long?
I don't necessarily mean the results, more the 11 taking the field at any given moment currently.
As a new manager you kind of have to start with a clean slate and can't really start off not playing the more expensive players. So Dalot may have been better than AWB but you still have to play AWB until it proves it doesn't work. During that "prove" period things could go wrong. But is there any way around it initially?
Think Ralf will be looking to change things after his initial six months. But that six months will be trial and failure to a degree?
Even of he realizes that the majority of the squad needs gone he won't be able to sell all and buy a new team.
It's going to be a long process and I think we will see some bad results before we see gains. Basically a rebuild. Do we need to be patient? And for how long?
Ralf making us play worse than Ole is a surprise to me.
The only thing I'm not happy with Ralf so far is he keep starting Ronaldo. But tbf that's probably not on him but from the upper hierarchy. I don't think Ralf is that blind or stupid. Ronaldo is basically the total opposite to his football and management style.
I think he is caught in 2 roles. First, long-term reform for sustainable success. Second, winning games here and now. Seeing as winning games now is his problem for six months while long-term reform is his job for 2 years, I think he is torn to be honest. Or maybe he is looking to clear out the squad of players who can't make it and this is his way of telling the players and the board that he means business. But he needs to start dropping non-performers and I think he will. Justification being, I gave you all the opportunities to do so but you didn't take it.
I agree.
I agree.
For me we needed a reset after SAF. Problem is/was we wanted to keep winning and do a reset. In the end we started to fail at both somewhat. Buying if certain players to keep winning which ultimately led to unbalance.
Moyes should have been given a little more time imo. He probably wasn't the long term manager we needed but he needed to be given a little time just to let the pre SAF dust to settle. Similarly with LVG.
I get we were playing some awful football etc but what changes to management have meant is we start from zero Everytime. Tye frustration with Ralf will be more about the last few years after SAF than any philosophy or ideology he wants to implement. Generally speaking 3 seasons to get us back to the top isn't unreasonable. But with Ralf we will count/include the Moyes, LVG, Jose and Ole era's. This will be a huge hinderance.
I personally think even next season will be tough.
It did seem optimistic that this guy would come in, immediately turn the on pitch side around, then be this absolute behind the scenes don for a couple of years after.
Seeing some mad stuff.
Moyes didn't get enough time.
Lindelof (who almost everyone has moaned about in his actual position) moving to centre mid!!
Roll on the summer.
Moyes didn't get enough time.
Lindelof (who almost everyone has moaned about in his actual position) moving to centre mid!!
Roll on the summer.
Do people think the players are turning on RR because of his training? They will turn on Poch too and Conte much earlier. None of them are pussycats. Conte would have thrown these guys off the Stretford End.
Drop the lot of them and play the kids.
They are not even passing and even trying.
The Cavani attempt I don't blame him. He is fully capable of scoring from there.
The Sancho one was not. He should have passed to Ronaldo. As for Rashford I don't want to see him play unless he at least makes at effort.
Drop the lot of them and play the kids.
They are not even passing and even trying.
The Cavani attempt I don't blame him. He is fully capable of scoring from there.
The Sancho one was not. He should have passed to Ronaldo. As for Rashford I don't want to see him play unless he at least makes at effort.
The thing is, we do have some players that show the pashun, but those players just aren't very good.
I can't really fault McFred for their attitude for example.
Then you could apply the same rule to the previous regime too.
Obviously none of us know, but my intuition is that a lot of players had it easy under Ole.
He initially wanted to play a fast aggressive counter pressing style, but abandoned the idea first for a traditional counter attacking style and then for a more possession based system.
I would guess that there are a number of reasons why Ole relented on his initial way he wanted to play, but perhaps squad laziness was one reason and coronavirus lockdown was the excuse.
There seems to be a lot of arrogance in this squad and unwillingness to do the hard stuff to earn the right to play, like City and Liverpool do. They work their arses off as teams when they lose possession and our players seem to think they are too good for that.
Why I wanted him so much.
Our board being scared that Conte wasn't the right kind of manager for United is exactly why we should have got him
Correct to perfect it, the principles were there from day one, they got to the Europa final that year with pressing football.
We missed out on Conte big time. He's exactly what was needed for these lot, a bit of authority.
I reckon the likes of Ten Hag, probably Poch or any other manager of this standing will just get eaten alive here.
I reckon the likes of Ten Hag, probably Poch or any other manager of this standing will just get eaten alive here.
I'm fully behind him (the manager) this time. Enough of throwing managers under the bus and allowing spoilt petulant players to get away with it. The lot of them can go, and I hope Ralf (along with the next permanent manager) is given full control to replace every single overpaid greedy lazy whinging wanker in our squad.
Actually, Ole had a very good dressing room, with all his flaws the one thing he done well is to ensure good morale, which by the reports, looks like Ralf is already losing.
I am not saying he is a bad manager or what not, you also need to put things into context, if you compare the squad Klopp took over to Rangnick, you will realise what you have said is nonsense.
Pep had a poor season but finished top 4, implemented a style of play, he didnt come in and say oh this is too hard, I will continue to play the same old football, he stuck to his principles. If Ralf does that and we lose its different, we have seen no pressing since the first 30 mins of Palace.
You can say Ole had a ridiculously easy run of games, but we have faced the 3 teams at 3 teams of the bottom 3 in the first 5 games? They are hard games right? Newcastle who ship goals for fun, Norwhich who ship goals for fun should have both beaten us.
Okay, Conte at Spurs, go have a look at that 5 clean sheets in 8, no losses yet. That is what you call Impact.
We needed a tiger as a manager, a manager who doesn't take any nonsense, instead we have a housecat past his best with no teeth. Roll on the summer.
United fans were almost unanimous in saying they couldn't believe Man United are finally doing the right footballing choice by hiring Rangnick. People watched a couple of videos of him speaking and labeled him a tactical genius, for basically saying what everybody on Redcafe were saying about the need to press.
Just because Solskjaer didn't talk tactics, doesn't mean he had none (of course I don't think he was qualified to compete for the league), and just because Rangnick talks about it doesn't mean he can implement them here.
He was reduced to talking about his own version of "passion" in the last three post match interviews, something people were calling for Solskjaer's head for. Our supporters are so gullible and desperate it's actually sad. Ole wasn't wrong when he said we lacked passion, and Rangnick isn't either, but neither could instill that in the players and that's on them. At least Ole managed to do it in bursts.
Since Rangnick was hired as interim, his only job was to motivate and implement basic tactics and patterns. Looks like it's an uphill task on both fronts.
Just because Solskjaer didn't talk tactics, doesn't mean he had none (of course I don't think he was qualified to compete for the league), and just because Rangnick talks about it doesn't mean he can implement them here.
He was reduced to talking about his own version of "passion" in the last three post match interviews, something people were calling for Solskjaer's head for. Our supporters are so gullible and desperate it's actually sad. Ole wasn't wrong when he said we lacked passion, and Rangnick isn't either, but neither could instill that in the players and that's on them. At least Ole managed to do it in bursts.
Since Rangnick was hired as interim, his only job was to motivate and implement basic tactics and patterns. Looks like it's an uphill task on both fronts.
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British players cant press?
Sorry I don't get what you mean?
Ole was incredibly limited as a manager though. We'd never have gotten anywhere with him. Sacking him was the absolute correct decision and it was done far too late. Problem is that we had a genuine top 3 world manager available in Conte and showed him the finger in favour of a manager who albeit is (imo) good, isn't nowhere near the best of the best. And we've tasked this manager of fixing the mess Ole has left and getting us a top 4 which is a very daunting task, especially in mid-season.
I'm not sure why Sancho and Greenwood can't press. That's a weird take.
That doesn't conflict with what I said and isn't what my post was about. Conte would have been a better choice for me as well. I don't think Ole left a bad squad, I think the atmosphere around the dressing room just needs a seriously good uplifting. These aren't bad players by any means. The squad is bloated and unbalanced but that could be fixed in a windows or two tops.
It's a bit hard to uplift the players when you make them work harder than they ever have though. I think players would have more likely listened to Conte because of his CV but generally speaking the whole situation doesnt reflect well on them.
LVG was very hands on coaching though. Maybe from his Ajax stint as DoF where he just fought with Koeman and supposedly started trying to intimidate him by taking a chair down and watching Koeman lead training
I brought up Conte already at Chelsea, who else had instant impact? I don’t even agree re Tottenham, have you watched any of their games? They’re as bad as us offensively and just sit deep and counter. If it wasn’t for two games with red cards I’d imagine their record would basically match ours.
Your examples just prove my point, Pep took a season, Klopp took multiple seasons (yes with an inferior squad), I feel like you’ve forgotten what I wrote because the entire point of RR is he’s not a specialist coach. No one is saying he’s anywhere near those two elite coaches. I’ve posted this so many times on this forum but I guess fans want instant success or nothing these days, we won’t see anything like a proper organised press for months and that’s also dependent on the Jan window.
Anyone who genuinely thought he would come in and by now we’d be pressing to a decent level and smashing teams needs their head examining. RR is not a head coach, he was never a highly successful coach either but that’s not why he’s so reverted. Any fans who don’t understand that are in for a horrible few months now.
I am not sure if you know but, that is Conte's style. Play defensively and counter. He done that at Chelsea, which is why their defensive record is so good.
Spurs almost beat Liverpool, they really should have anyway, which had nothing to do with the red card. Spurs might look crap but they have improved defensively and scored more than us since RR came.
What is the point of hiring a manager when he wont get success then? Why hire someone for 6 months that takes 2 years to implement something ?
I don't want instant success, I want to see a change. There has been 0 change in the way we play.
If you ask a Spurs fan, I guarantee each one of them will say the football is 10 x better than Nuno.
Ask a United fan, the football might even be worse.
Better than Nuno might be the lowest yardstick ever though. They are better defensively but let’s see come end of season - I doubt anyone is arguing RR is a better coach than Conte anyway?
No he’s been hired because there is a fundamental issue with how our club is run, how we recruit and how we forward plan. His task is to get the team familiar with a pressing style (which sadly Ole didn’t do) and then a new manager comes in the summer who is a long term coach.
Rangnick seems like the type to be authoritative too, so no wonder they're pissed off, he's got them training two times a day apparently as well, which hasn't gone down well with the squad. Most likely to improve their fitness to do a high pressing game. Saw that it didn't work for long enough in the first game so gone back to the old style I suspect until their fitness levels have improved.
a few things at play here…
a) players too comfortable under Ole and don’t like the hard work now being asked of them
b) because they were happy under Ole, some appear to have downed tools for RR especially knowing he won’t be manager in 6 months
c) why buy into something when they known a new manager is around the corner. (Some too stupid to realise that RR will still have a role to play)
d) low level football IQ preventing them from picking up what we’re trying. Deep rooted issues from previous regimes and actually passing fwd at speed is so far removed from what they know
Squad feels rotten at the minute. Looking fwd to a Pogba return and interested to see who will partner him in midfield. At least we’d have a player in there capable of being creative
a) players too comfortable under Ole and don’t like the hard work now being asked of them
b) because they were happy under Ole, some appear to have downed tools for RR especially knowing he won’t be manager in 6 months
c) why buy into something when they known a new manager is around the corner. (Some too stupid to realise that RR will still have a role to play)
d) low level football IQ preventing them from picking up what we’re trying. Deep rooted issues from previous regimes and actually passing fwd at speed is so far removed from what they know
Squad feels rotten at the minute. Looking fwd to a Pogba return and interested to see who will partner him in midfield. At least we’d have a player in there capable of being creative
I think Conte carries that charisma of Ferguson that makes players want to die for him and obey him without question. If he tells you to jump, you better do it. Even an imbecile like Lukaku speaks with glowing terms of him. He's also a massive hardass akin to Guardiola and Fergie back in the day. Rangnick, albeit authoritative, seems more mellow and looks like he'd rub people the wrong way. He doesn't seem to project that absolute authority that is required at this level with these primma donnas.
Anyway, let's just hope Ten Hag comes at the end of the season and not Poch. I feel he is similar to Guardiola and would clear this squad pretty fast.
The biggest shame is we did not get a new manager bounce. We actually got worse. It might prove to have been a mistake getting a new interim. Should have maybe kept Ole or Carrick and get the new manager in next summer. There is still time of course to make something out of this season but things are looking worse then ever.
Bring him 2 midfielders, not just 1!
I know January isn't ideal but it may be the best route to bring 2-3 bodies in and let 2-3 bodies go.
Let 11 primmadonna's go and play the kids. After all as alan hansen said, you cant win anything with kids.
Yeah but we know that's not going to happen right. I think a more plausible and hopefully doable measure is to let say, Martial, Lingard and Bailey go and bring in Alvarez, Kamara and Haidara (these are just 3 we've been linked in, not a lot of thought into it here).
If your point is Conte is a better manager than Rangnick then I don't think there are many who will disagree with you. Conte is a world class manager while Rangnick is not, but we missed out on Conte already, for whatever reason. Personally I want Conte over any other manager we have been linked with, because for me the whole squad attitude need to be improved big time and only Conte is strong/good enough to do that, but that ship has sailed.
I want to see a change too, but no change can happen without the player full commitment. It's just 1 month and having all these "leak", all these "question", all the lazy carefree attitude from our players is unacceptable, especially when they are paid the top salary in world's football.
That doesn't mean RR can ride on forever without result but he was here for just 1 month. He has the least fault in our current mess. He needs absolute support from our board, from our fan over these "senior players", otherwise it will just set a dangerous example of player power. The manager's authority should never be undermined. Imagine if we have a literal SAF 2.0 but he came to us without any power or authority, will he success? Obviously not with these players.
May be it's just me but I don't understand why we need a new manager bounce? It doesn't mean anything regarding the new manager's ability. Ole has the greatest new manager's bounce ever and it does nothing to us, long term or short term.
Also RR want to keep Carrick but he decided to move away, even before the appointment, so there is no Ole or Carrick, it's Ole or new interim.
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