Ralf Rangnick | ex-interim manager | does anyone rate him?

[#07]

Why? Such a nothing article, why should RR resign?

Whatever authority he thought he might have, even as interim coach, is being further eroded. When your whole MO depends on religiously beating a particular style/method into your players, you're dead as soon as they won't listen to you. If he has to eat his words to soothe Martial's ego that tells the whole dressing room they don't have to take this fella seriously. The Board will be setting another coach up for failure. May as well walk before it gets truly embarrassing results wise. Not sure Ralf wants to be the first coach since 2014 to finish lower in the league than Moyes, which is what will happen if he can't get the players to take in his instructions and apply them on the pitch.

 

[Acole9]

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If true he's finished. May as well resign now.

This has to be bollocks. A lot of the stuff put out recently is most likely to be true but the media are taking the piss now.

 

[Sayros]

Whatever authority he thought he might have, even as interim coach, is being further eroded. When your whole MO depends on religiously beating a particular style/method into your players, you're dead as soon as they won't listen to you. If he has to eat his words to soothe Martial's ego that tells the whole dressing room they don't have to take this fella seriously. The Board will be setting another coach up for failure. May as well walk before it gets truly embarrassing results wise. Not sure Ralf wants to be the first coach since 2014 to finish lower in the league than Moyes, which is what will happen if he can't get the players to take in his instructions and apply them on the pitch.

Well yesterday, I was totally siding with Ralf because why the hell would you lie about something like this? The fact that these news are coming out is maybe telling us he did make this up or at least twisted the narrative a bit, which would be really weird but also a big mistake that he would need to address.
It's not about soothing egos if this was a lie, it's just about owning up to a complete fabrication for god knows what reasons at the risk of further stigmatizing a player on his way out, but I'm still baffled as to why anybody would lie about Martial being called up and refusing to turn up, strange times.

 

[Nytram Shakes]

Can anyobe explain why do we never play with 3 in the middle

Because midfield is our weakest position so we would be picking 3 players from our weakest position.
It would also mean 1 less attacker is going to play, which is by far our strongest area of the pitch as we have about 700 attackers.

 

[#07]

Well yesterday, I was totally siding with Ralf because why the hell would you lie about something like this? The fact that these news are coming out is maybe telling us he did make this up or at least twisted the narrative a bit, which would be really weird but also a big mistake that he would need to address.
It's not about soothing egos if this was a lie, it's just about owning up to a complete fabrication for god knows what reasons at the risk of further stigmatizing a player on his way out, but I'm still baffled as to why anybody would lie about Martial being called up and refusing to turn up, strange times.

I haven't seen any compelling evidence to suggest Ralf lied. I've seen a denial from Martial that he did not refuse to play (easy to make if he wasn't actually asked to play because he'd expressed a desire not) and lots of people reaching on social media.

However, for arguments sake, lets say Ralf did lie. I don't believe he did. However, let's just run through the scenario and look at the consequences for Manchester United.

If Ralf has lied about Martial, which I doubt, then to publicly force him to back down will still massively undermine both him and the position of Man Utd manager. It will be the dressing room, once again, bringing a coach to heel. How on earth any coach will be expected to get control of this group of players is beyond me after this.

On the flip side, say he didn't lie. Which I happen to believe is more likely. Then, again, his authority is massively undermined. Arguably even more so than if he did lie. Cos the players will know that he is being forced, effectively, to kiss ar$e for a player who's scored a handful of goals in a year. What does that say about him? About his status as a coach?

A coach groveling in front of his players is not in the long term interests of this club.

 

[glazed]

I'm still baffled as to why anybody would lie about Martial being called up and refusing to turn up, strange times.

As I understand it Martial said he didn't want to be involved but he didn't refuse to be. His position and Ralf's aren't inconsistent. He stated a preference and Ralf went along with it.

 

[Escobar]

Because midfield is our weakest position so we would be picking 3 players from our weakest position.
It would also mean 1 less attacker is going to play, which is by far our strongest area of the pitch as we have about 700 attackers.

we cant control a game, maybe we could. What use are so many attakcers when they dont see the ball much cause we get dominated and overran

 

[DSG]

I haven't seen any compelling evidence to suggest Ralf lied. I've seen a denial from Martial that he did not refuse to play (easy to make if he wasn't actually asked to play because he'd expressed a desire not) and lots of people reaching on social media.

However, for arguments sake, lets say Ralf did lie. I don't believe he did. However, let's just run through the scenario and look at the consequences for Manchester United.

If Ralf has lied about Martial, which I doubt, then to publicly force him to back down will still massively undermine both him and the position of Man Utd manager. It will be the dressing room, once again, bringing a coach to heel. How on earth any coach will be expected to get control of this group of players is beyond me after this.

On the flip side, say he didn't lie. Which I happen to believe is more likely. Then, again, his authority is massively undermined. Arguably even more so than if he did lie. Cos the players will know that he is being forced, effectively, to kiss ar$e for a player who's scored a handful of goals in a year. What does that say about him? About his status as a coach?

A coach groveling in front of his players is not in the long term interests of this club.

The fact that we are debating about a player who has been a serious threat to play or start in any meaningful match in the last year is comical.

Martial had his chance. He has failed under every manager — four now. Were there moments where he was absolutely sublime? Yes! But we need workrate, consistency, positivity, dedication. Martial has not shown that.

I agree, I doubt Ralf lied about Martial. However, I will say that Ralf is a bit naive when it comes to dealing with the press. First, you fill up your bench to avoid these types of questions. Secondly, you just say Martial was not available for selection, leave it at that. Thirdly, why dilute the value of an asset by saying he didn’t want to play?

I think we are all beginning to understand that the job is too big for Ralf. The performances have been pretty dire. His tactics don’t seem to be getting through to the squad. There are reports of open revolt, squad divisions. I was very optimistic when he joined, but after 6 weeks in charge, I am pretty pessimistic that we can reach top 4 and challenge for a cup. Does he deserve more time? Yes. But how much longer? A month?

 

[#07]

The fact that we are debating about a player who has been a serious threat to play or start in any meaningful match in the last year is comical.

Martial had his chance. He has failed under every manager — four now. Were there moments where he was absolutely sublime? Yes! But we need workrate, consistency, positivity, dedication. Martial has not shown that.

I agree, I doubt Ralf lied about Martial. However, I will say that Ralf is a bit naive when it comes to dealing with the press. First, you fill up your bench to avoid these types of questions. Secondly, you just say Martial was not available for selection, leave it at that. Thirdly, why dilute the value of an asset by saying he didn’t want to play?

I think we are all beginning to understand that the job is too big for Ralf. The performances have been pretty dire. His tactics don’t seem to be getting through to the squad. There are reports of open revolt, squad divisions. I was very optimistic when he joined, but after 6 weeks in charge, I am pretty pessimistic that we can reach top 4 and challenge for a cup. Does he deserve more time? Yes. But how much longer? A month?

I don't see Rangnick or any other coach salvaging this season, so its pointless to get rid of him.

Maybe if we'd have backed him, given the dressing room any kind of reason to fear/respect him, he'd be doing better? However, they're all treating him as a placeholder it seems. Which, in some ways, you can't blame them for. The Board is openly treating him as a placeholder and showing leg to Pochettino, Ten Hag and anyone else they fancy.

The players, of course, should play for their professional pride and the desire to do right by themselves, their reputations and their fans. However, I think we've seen enough of this group to know that won't happen. They let it be known they weren't happy to drive home in the dark from training!

So I guess we just go through the motions until May and hope this group, who've been called out on their attitude by the most hard working footballer -- Cristiano Ronaldo, suddenly discovers a bit of fight under a new man.

 

[Sayros]

I haven't seen any compelling evidence to suggest Ralf lied. I've seen a denial from Martial that he did not refuse to play (easy to make if he wasn't actually asked to play because he'd expressed a desire not) and lots of people reaching on social media.

However, for arguments sake, lets say Ralf did lie. I don't believe he did. However, let's just run through the scenario and look at the consequences for Manchester United.

If Ralf has lied about Martial, which I doubt, then to publicly force him to back down will still massively undermine both him and the position of Man Utd manager. It will be the dressing room, once again, bringing a coach to heel. How on earth any coach will be expected to get control of this group of players is beyond me after this.

On the flip side, say he didn't lie. Which I happen to believe is more likely. Then, again, his authority is massively undermined. Arguably even more so than if he did lie. Cos the players will know that he is being forced, effectively, to kiss ar$e for a player who's scored a handful of goals in a year. What does that say about him? About his status as a coach?

A coach groveling in front of his players is not in the long term interests of this club.

Hey, I'm with you, I can't possibly see why he lied. The only thing that's made me doubt it now is this report (if there's even any truth to it), about the higher-ups getting involved in the matter, which could also be a complete fabrication. For all intents and purposes, they should be siding with Ralf on all matters, they have to realize what a disaster it would be if they undermined the manager in that manner, so if they do proceed to go ahead with it, I can only imagine it was because there was a gross error in communication or management from Ralf's side and that the matter has affected more than just Martial as it can create an issue throughout the locker room (and there's reportedly plenty of those as it is).

I'm curious to see what Ralf says in his next press conference.

 

[roseguy64]

With all due respect, nobody gives a flying feck for a U23 game if senior team needs players. These kids are there to fight for the senior squad places. Players like Amad and Shoretire are expected to be recalled in exactly situations like these and it's actually a travesty that they are not. You can't be seriously arguing that we couldn't find 2 youth players for a senior game. At United! Come on, now.

You realise that bringing in those players depends on when the team travels and when the injuries to the first team happened?

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

I don't see Rangnick or any other coach salvaging this season, so its pointless to get rid of him.

Maybe if we'd have backed him, given the dressing room any kind of reason to fear/respect him, he'd be doing better? However, they're all treating him as a placeholder it seems. Which, in some ways, you can't blame them for. The Board is openly treating him as a placeholder and showing leg to Pochettino, Ten Hag and anyone else they fancy.

The players, of course, should play for their professional pride and the desire to do right by themselves, their reputations and their fans. However, I think we've seen enough of this group to know that won't happen. They let it be known they weren't happy to drive home in the dark from training!

So I guess we just go through the motions until May and hope this group, who've been called out on their attitude by the most hard working footballer -- Cristiano Ronaldo, suddenly discovers a bit of fight under a new man.

But they know that Rangnick is far more than that, so if I was player, and I really wanted to do well and stay at the club, then I'd be on my best behaviour, knowing full well that the 'placeholder' is going upstairs next season, and was more just a spy for 6 months rather than a manager, and so will have no issue using this knowledge to full advantage in the role he really came to the club to do..

 

[Amar__]

Why are people saying he lied about Martial, what did I miss?

 

[Rockets Redglare]

Why are people saying he lied about Martial, what did I miss?

He didn’t. The insane Martial fanboys on here are too far up his arse to see what everyone else does.

 

[Witchking]

It's very clear that United and Martial are playing on technicalities. Ralf would have asked him to be on the bench and Martial wanted a confirmation that he would play which he did not get. So technically Martial never refused to play for United and Technically Ralf asked Martial to be on the bench which he declined. What a great club.

 

[Giggsy13]

This is super, super weird


Despite what posters are saying here I am not buying that Martial is spinning words. Refusing to be on the squad is highly unprofessional and it was very weird when Rangnick mentioned it. I am inclined to believe Martial here, which puts Rangnick in very interesting light. Did he just extrapolate Martial's demand to leave the club and blamed him for refusing to be in the squad, where it was Rangnick not wanting him?

Things are hopelessly rotten in the kingdom of United

Why would we believe him, he did the same thing in 2018. Short and selective memories by some.

 

[ManchesterManchester]

I hope everyone backs Ralf over Martial. Including the board, they need to step up and get rid of him even on a huge loss. Time to put standards before money.

 

[Hugh Jass]

Surely the club has to side with Rangnick. What chance have we off getting Poch or Ten Hag if they know the club wont back them.

 

[Amar__]

He didn’t. The insane Martial fanboys on here are too far up his arse to see what everyone else does.

Wait, they just decided to accuse Rangnick of lying without any proof?

 

[NewGlory]

Why would we believe him, he did the same thing in 2018. Short and selective memories by some.

Already addressed that accusation in this thread, and no - he did not "do the same" in 2018. Completely different situation + off season. If anything Jose was the asshole back then.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

we cant control a game, maybe we could. What use are so many attakcers when they dont see the ball much cause we get dominated and overran

the problem probably isn't in formation and more in coaching and tactics within the system. im sure other managers or maybe ralf with time can get control with a two man midfield

 

[#07]

But they know that Rangnick is far more than that, so if I was player, and I really wanted to do well and stay at the club, then I'd be on my best behaviour, knowing full well that the 'placeholder' is going upstairs next season, and was more just a spy for 6 months rather than a manager, and so will have no issue using this knowledge to full advantage in the role he really came to the club to do..

Do they though?

When the media asked Ralf about his consultancy in his first presser it sounded really undefined. It sounds like, mostly, he will be there as a sounding board for John Murtough as he learns on the job.

If I am listening to that, then watching the club not back the guy in the market, making him bow down before wantaways, I would not be thinking: 'This guy's going to be really influential in the next couple of years.'

 

[Oranges038]

This is super, super weird


Despite what posters are saying here I am not buying that Martial is spinning words. Refusing to be on the squad is highly unprofessional and it was very weird when Rangnick mentioned it. I am inclined to believe Martial here, which puts Rangnick in very interesting light. Did he just extrapolate Martial's demand to leave the club and blamed him for refusing to be in the squad, where it was Rangnick not wanting him?

Things are hopelessly rotten in the kingdom of United

RR might have been wrong to say what he said publicly. Martial clearly wants out so he shouldn't even be considered for selection in the first place. Whether or not he refused to go or didn't think he was fit or whatever it was, wouldn't be a problem if that stance was taken. This wouldn't be news and it wouldn't be an issue at all.

I also think Martial is talking utter shite about never disrespecting the club or the fans.

I would like to know if he can explain how his performances and general attitude on the pitch for the 2 years have been anything but that. I've said it before, that Sheffield Utd game where he was standing still while everybody else just ran around him should have been the last time he ever played for the club.

 

[crossy1686]

Wait, they just decided to accuse Rangnick of lying without any proof?

There’s an article in the mirror that states the board have told Ralf to patch it up with Martial and they’re taking that as the board telling Ralf to stop lying about players. It’s a nothing article in a nothing paper. I believe clutching at straws is the term commonly used

 

[alexthelion]

Hey, I'm with you, I can't possibly see why he lied. The only thing that's made me doubt it now is this report (if there's even any truth to it), about the higher-ups getting involved in the matter, which could also be a complete fabrication. For all intents and purposes, they should be siding with Ralf on all matters, they have to realize what a disaster it would be if they undermined the manager in that manner, so if they do proceed to go ahead with it, I can only imagine it was because there was a gross error in communication or management from Ralf's side and that the matter has affected more than just Martial as it can create an issue throughout the locker room (and there's reportedly plenty of those as it is).

I'm curious to see what Ralf says in his next press conference.

They made Ole apologise to Rashford, why wouldn't they do this?

 

[alexthelion]

Already addressed that accusation in this thread, and no - he did not "do the same" in 2018. Completely different situation + off season. If anything Jose was the asshole back then.

Staying away too long is Jose's fault how?

 

[Giggsy13]

Already addressed that accusation in this thread, and no - he did not "do the same" in 2018. Completely different situation + off season. If anything Jose was the asshole back then.

Yes you're right. The manager with two champions league titles, multiple league titles in 3 counties who demanded more of his underperforming squad was an asshole. Why is it so difficult for our supporters to see the source of our problem - unmitigated player power and supporters like yourself who prop them up with continued support. We have a rotten core in our squad, Martial is one of them.

 

[roseguy64]

Think we should all wait until Rangnick addresses it in his press conference.

 

[Sayros]

They made Ole apologise to Rashford, why wouldn't they do this?

I must have missed this episode, had to google it, the whole comment about 'prioritizing his football'? It does seem like someone pulled him by the ear to address it afterwards, but if I had to guess it was maybe trying to appease a media reaction similar to the whole 'shut up and dribble' thing that happened with Lebron James and not so much executives telling Ole to apologize to Rashford, which he never did from the quotes I saw.

 

[soapythecat]

RR ain’t going anywhere. He’s moving up the chain and the players will know this. If he gets Martial away this window and stops silly extensions to Mata, Jones, Cavani and Lingard then he has my full support.
The next manger will fail unless someone clears out those not wanting/deserving to be here. Enough is enough.
Woodward was an ego that no longer needs to be serviced. Hopefully that can help us get out of this mess.
RR is our man.

 

[NewGlory]

RR might have been wrong to say what he said publicly. Martial clearly wants out so he shouldn't even be considered for selection in the first place. Whether or not he refused to go or didn't think he was fit or whatever it was, wouldn't be a problem if that stance was taken. This wouldn't be news and it wouldn't be an issue at all.

I also think Martial is talking utter shite about never disrespecting the club or the fans.

I would like to know if he can explain how his performances and general attitude on the pitch for the 2 years have been anything but that. I've said it before, that Sheffield Utd game where he was standing still while everybody else just ran around him should have been the last time he ever played for the club.

That is fair, but not giving your 100% and refusing to be on the squad - two very different things. Whole diff level

 

[NewGlory]

Yes you're right. The manager with two champions league titles, multiple league titles in 3 counties who demanded more of his underperforming squad was an asshole. Why is it so difficult for our supporters to see the source of our problem - unmitigated player power and supporters like yourself who prop them up with continued support. We have a rotten core in our squad, Martial is one of them.

Dude. Jose was the all-powerful manager of that team, paid millions to fix it and yet broke it even worse, but I am the problem?! Come on, now

 

[pratyush_utd]

Already addressed that accusation in this thread, and no - he did not "do the same" in 2018. Completely different situation + off season. If anything Jose was the asshole back then.

He did the same thing at the start of this season according Athletic.

I guess if you are not pulling weight in training and dont want to stay, Rangnick considers that as not wanting to play. He has mentioned the same thing about players wanting to leave earlier.

 

[Harry190]

Doesn't matter if he 'lied' or not. He is the boss, he decides. Whether he is a charlatan or not is secondary.

If he interpreted Martial's response as a refusal to play, then that's how it is.

 

[roseguy64]

Doesn't matter if he 'lied' or not. He is the boss, he decides. Whether he is a charlatan or not is secondary.

If he interpreted Martial's response as a refusal to play, then that's how it is.

What? Lying about players in public isn't gonna win you the trust of the squad...

 

[OL29]

There’s an article in the mirror that states the board have told Ralf to patch it up with Martial and they’re taking that as the board telling Ralf to stop lying about players. It’s a nothing article in a nothing paper. I believe clutching at straws is the term commonly used

Only it’s not one source is it?

Both Rob Dawson in the ESPN and David McDonnell in The Mirror, who are both decent journos, have both indicated that it was more of a misunderstanding. This, Martial’s denial and the fact the club didn’t punish Martial is probably further proof that this has been blown massively out of proportion. Would it actually kill you to show a tiny bit of balance? Even the most arduous Martial defenders conceded that him refusing to play was unacceptable, yet you can’t concede that there’s even a slight possibility that this whole situation isn’t what it was made out to be. I guess we’ll see from Rangnick’s presser but I suspect that even if he confirms that he didn’t refuse to play you’ll twist it and use it to bash Martial. And it’s a bit rich for you to talk about poor sources, if it was a negative story about Martial you know full well you wouldn’t care about it’s credibility.

 

[OL29]

Doesn't matter if he 'lied' or not. He is the boss, he decides. Whether he is a charlatan or not is secondary.

If he interpreted Martial's response as a refusal to play, then that's how it is.

This makes no sense. Martial was subject to horrendous abuse on the back of Ralph’s comments so if they turn out to be inaccurate then he needs to be called out.

 

[B. Munich]

Stating Marcial didn't want to be in the squad for the Villa game doesn't mean Marcial refused to play.
Both statements could be true.

Nevertheless a player whose behavior suggests he isn't motivated/interested to be in the matchday squad is an alarming sign of the state of that squad.

 

[hellhunter]

Stating Marcial didn't want to be in the squad for the Villa game doesn't mean Marcial refused to play.
Both statements could be true.

Nevertheless a player whose behavior suggests he isn't motivated/interested to be in the matchday squad is an alarming sign of the state of that squad.

It's Martial, to be fair. Motivation and hunger are not exactly attitudes you'd associate with him

 

[B. Munich]

It's Martial, to be fair. Motivation and hunger are not exactly attitudes you'd associate with him

That's also my impression. Especially as Rangnick doesn't have a history of throwing players under the bus, let alone for no reason.

If the board doesn't support Rangnick in clearing out unwanted players and doesn't back him in the transfer window, I can't see how he will succeed. If you hire Rangnick you need to trust him.

Martial wants out, Sevilla is interested but United insists on Sevilla paying his whole wages and 7 million loan fee. No club will ever accept this for a player like Marcial.

Rangnick wants several midfielders but the board seems to have doubts and doesn't seem to get these players on board. Zakaria would even been a bargain considering the fees United is usually paying.
I can't see Rangnick to succeed under these circumstances and wouldn't be surprised if just walk away rather sooner than later.