How does this work in the context of Ralf allegedly telling Jesse he was free to leave on Monday?
Ralf Rangnick | ex-interim manager | does anyone rate him?
- Thread starter RonaldoVII
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This is what is called 'politics'
Until Ralf is no longer the manager, he Is the boss.
Any other assumption brings chaos to the working environment.
Any business is run this way.
Any deviation from this is why businesses ultimately fail.
A more realistic comparison would be that Ralf is his line manager and he went to the big boss tbf, which is something that happens every day all over the world. Especially when the issue isn’t with said line manager but rather with something the big boss is involved with.
He is giving Murtough an out.
He does not want a washing of dirty linen in public.
It definitely is a big deal.
As for the rest of what you say. 'Irritating for people....'
Yeah. being straight forward can be irritating to some.
You are making a huge assumption that he is a 'line manager'.
Even in that scenario a person cannot have two bosses. Recipe for chaos
Ralf coaches and picks the team.
I mean, in this scenario Murtough is THE boss, Ralf is a line manager. It’s pretty much exactly the setup especially since Ralf isn’t hanging around in that role and is a temp.
Murtough is literally the boss.
And Murtough has undermined his subordinate.
Lindgard could have approached him.
What should Murtough have done?
He should have told him to go talk to Ralf.
Because Ralf picks the squad for the match.
In your scenario, Joel Glazer who is the Top boss could grant a player who approaches him his request and that would be Ok.
What you described is called 'politics'.
Yeah that would be totally ok. It’s following hierarchy, those lower down the ladder have to follow what they’re told by those higher. That’s life baby.
That is not how a properly run businesses is run baby.
But then we have established that Manchester United are not a properly run business.
Jesse probably knew he'd have little success getting time off directly from Ralf, so he went over his head and asked Murtough instead.
My point is more, if Ralf was happy for him to go on Monday knowing he wouldn’t be replaced, why is Ralf now saying we were one attacker short because Jesse wasn’t available? It just doesn’t make sense. Unless Ralf now thinks he got it wrong on Monday.
OR Jesse is an easy target for him to hang out to dry.
As much as I’m happy about our improvement under Ralf, I’m also seeing a lot of worrying signs and it’s clear why his actual coaching career is not much to write home about and the transition upstairs is far more important.
The same people saying Murtough recruited Ralf and offered him the consultancy role are the same people saying he's not listening to him. It can't be both. And now you're saying he's unhappy about the thing he wanted to happen.
Maybe just a lot of it is not true/exaggerated and you're believing it because it's easy to/suits your agenda?
If I'm not mistaken, Ralf said it before the Greenwood situation. If so, then everything is logical
It was reported that he also said it on Monday, the day after, then the board stepped in. So it’s not logical.
Rashford is beyond useless through the middle. He has no anticipation whatsoever, as we even saw on the rebound from Sancho hitting the bar early on. Ronaldo is the only player we had that could play centrally as we've loaned Martial, Cavani is eternally injured & Greenwood, well, we all know what happened there.
Just to get this back on track… I’m quite worried about Ralf as a manager. I was actually really enthusiastic when he came in, hoping he could spark a transformation in the club, not only on the pitch, but organizationally as well.
‘Here we are, 2 months later. We still don’t look great on the pitch, we failed to strengthen the squad in the window, and Ralf has really fecked up the Martial and the Lingard situations.
I can’t believe I’m saying this so soon, but… Ralf out.
‘Here we are, 2 months later. We still don’t look great on the pitch, we failed to strengthen the squad in the window, and Ralf has really fecked up the Martial and the Lingard situations.
I can’t believe I’m saying this so soon, but… Ralf out.
I don’t expect someone who supports Bayern Munich who actually operate like a football to understand the baffling and idiotic decisions of United. We’re no longer a football club on Bayern’s level.
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Wow.
Pretty much hold the opposite view to all of the above, but each to their own.
I fairly quickly started to lose patience with him when he seemed to be all talk, serving up dire football and picking the same old shitty line ups. I appreciate now looking back he just needed to stop us fecking conceding, and get some confidence back into the lads - even if it meant us looking boring.
Things that have made me more confident in him since then:
First and foremost the football is quickly starting to look way better, still only a two or three games worth, but it's going in the right direction. We should have battered Middlesborough the way we played but everything went against us on the night.
He realised quickly 4-2-2-2 wasn't going to work and changed it.
He wasn't afraid to admit he underestimated the English league and has reacted accordingly.
His handling of Ronaldo has been fairly impressive, particularly subbing him and his handling of the fallout.
He isn't taking any shit from the players. He isn't afraid to call them out publicly but unlike 90% of managers who attempt this approach is somehow managing to do so in quite a polite, even-handed way which can't be argued with, and is crucially showing the players up not himself.
He also hasn't been afraid to loan players out, Ole seemed terrified of doing this and it was his ultimate undoing as the dressing room turned mutinous.
Aren't you tired of this shit
I mean, for a man with so called experience of Bundesliga second league and several 11v11 matches after retiring, your posts are like a 10 year old kid . When have you been on-board with this managerial appointment ?
I can’t believe you’re saying this either!
Strange take. Ralf has stopped the bleeding and done exactly what you want an interim to do. The loss against boro wasn’t on him at all.
Wait, Ralf failed to strengthen the squad in the transfer window?
Having had time to digest that loss I think you have to say that it was a freak result and the football in the first 60 minutes was really good. I think it’s the first time there seems to be an acceptance at the club that any real change in the team is going to have to start from the top. I would be shocked if Rangnick is the long term managerial option but we need a DOF & a manager who are going to build a winning squad of players rather than a squad full of has beens who were great at one point. We are in a perfect situation for a rebuild and the managerial appointment we make in the summer is going to be the biggest one since Saf. Get that right and we can start competing again, get that wrong & we are basically done for good for a while. I like Ralf’s attitude though and I think in the long run he means business
You’re so fecking easy to wind up…Aren't you tired of this shit
I mean, for a man with so called experience of Bundesliga second league and several 11v11 matches after retiring, your posts are like a 10 year old kid . When have you been on-board with this managerial appointment ?
I think we looked great on mondag and it was by far one of the more entertaining matches I have seen in a while. We looked quite decent, right? Besides bad finishing, but thats not on Ralf.
I liked the starting players, the subs, boys were linking, you could tell that they had practised on corners and there were quite a few chances on goal.
I liked the starting players, the subs, boys were linking, you could tell that they had practised on corners and there were quite a few chances on goal.
Basing this on nothing but a feeling, but I think Ralf will be completely gone in the summer. I don't think he'll stick around for his consultancy role or whatever they're calling it.
Agree on that. Best moment of the season for me has been his press conferences where he just speaks his mind and says it as it is. Massive problems at Utd both in the management of the club (meaning board) and the quality of players
I hope you are wrong... but also have that feeling you may be right!
He is not suffering fools gladly, and that's not just those on the pitch!
What Ralf himself probably thought was a half season job, 'nudging' things in the right direction... he is now looking at what it really is up 2 to 3 years to clean out the stables, and put fresh hay in, then do the hard yards training... hope its not the case but, like you have that feeling.
I agree. He's starting to look more and more dismayed by the hierarchy at the club.
I don't think this Lingard thing was an attempt by Murtough to undermine Ralf; I just think it was sheer ineptitude and poor communication. My sense is that Murtough likes Rangnick and his expertise but always planned on holding him at arm's length. Ralf will increasingly be seeing how much fundamentally needs changing at this club but he'll soon realise that he won't be given enough power to implement those changes and, in fact, that his bosses are the biggest part of the equation. Older types behind the scenes like Marcel Bout will not be rocking the boat, despite probably realising this is a shit show, because this is their last gig and it's well paid. Ralf, however, will walk. Unfortunately for him and us, his not so stellar performance as manager will allow the people in charge to justify his departure - "there you go; he wasn't that good anyway". Thing is, he's better as a DOF type anyhow.
I've tried to be positive about this club but nothing really seems to change. I foolishly thought Murtough might be someone to bring about real change but he just seems to be yet another Glazer donut. Ralf coming in was another temporary boost. He could do so much good here but his legs are being chopped from underneath him.
Don't think that's out of the question. A lot hinges on what the consultancy actually looks like.
Is it a consultancy whereby he's on the ground in Manchester, at Carrington? Or does it just require him to be available a few days a month for video calls? The Murtough, Fletcher, Rangnick dynamic could become muddied.
It all feels a bit 'we'll cross that bridge when we come to it'.
I share this feeling. He doesn't seem like the type to suffer incompetence. And incompetence isn't hard to find in this club. One might say it's the only thing the club has produced consistently over the last decade. I just hope once he leaves he says it like it is and what happened behind the scenes.
Also, him leaving will confirm to me we are finished for good.
Prety much nailed on in my view. We have also seen stories in German press about him being disillusioned, not being backed in tranferrs, told by higher ups not to focus on changing style etc. Its amazing even when we make a half decent appointment by accident, the board seem determined to get involved and f*ck it up. We will go for another higher profile manager (poch), back hin on transfers (kind of), then seem surprised we are in a mess if it doesnt work out with all the same problems. Been saying for a whike this club is going nowhere until we have a football structure, which would include football people running the club. He should be DOF come summer, with a major input into manager, who will also be told he needs to work with Ralf.
Nail on the head, and until that changes then it doesnt matter who our manager is. Club is fecked
I know we are in vehement agreement but I fear this is true. Fans need to stop moaning about Pogba, Lingard or whoever, and focus on the Glazers (very hard but not impossible to remove) but what we can influence is the people they appoint to the board. There are muppets on here telling me how well qualified Fletch is to be our tecnhical director or whatever he is (does anyone know?). The only old boy who should be in any senior position at the club is Van Der Sar.
I get that feeling too. I don’t think it’s a good decision but I think employing some one like Rangnick in a position of authority in the hierarchy of the club would just be such a huge cultural change and so many people at the club would see it as a threat to there power/influence/job that unless Rangnick was a huge success the chances of him being welcomed into the club were always minor.
I think we have to look at it high level right now and ignore whether he stays on or not. He's steadied a sinking ship and the media circus that was here a few weeks ago seems to be gone. I still think we're going to have an abysmal March given the fixture list.
Good little test to come now with very physical teams and a lot of pressing against us. Burnley we should beat, they look poor this season and I'm particularly interested to see how we play versus Sotons 4222 and then Brighton's possession game. I hope the upward trend in performances continues but I'm not getting carried away by the Borough performance (not result) because there's a big difference between a mid table Championship team and the PL.
Good little test to come now with very physical teams and a lot of pressing against us. Burnley we should beat, they look poor this season and I'm particularly interested to see how we play versus Sotons 4222 and then Brighton's possession game. I hope the upward trend in performances continues but I'm not getting carried away by the Borough performance (not result) because there's a big difference between a mid table Championship team and the PL.
I'm still hoping against hope that this board led by Arnold and Murtough would be different from Ed.
They had a good start by appointing Rangnick to lay the foundation of modern progressive football on the pitch and after that go upstairs as consultant to assist on modernisation of the football structure.
After 2 months in, cracks start to appear. It seems the board has different ideas on transfers (including loans), player power (politic) is still evident with the board is involved too and poor communication between board, manager & players.
Hope Rangnick is given more power to implement the changes required. I trust him more than the board who was big part of our failure for the last 9 years.
They had a good start by appointing Rangnick to lay the foundation of modern progressive football on the pitch and after that go upstairs as consultant to assist on modernisation of the football structure.
After 2 months in, cracks start to appear. It seems the board has different ideas on transfers (including loans), player power (politic) is still evident with the board is involved too and poor communication between board, manager & players.
Hope Rangnick is given more power to implement the changes required. I trust him more than the board who was big part of our failure for the last 9 years.
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