Ralf Rangnick's consultancy role has been scrapped

[amolbhatia50k]

Each bolded part is adressed on its own.

1. No I don't. I am just saying, that they might not be the single most important problem the club has.
2. They did buy the club on debt. In 2005. Since then the club has seen the most successful period in terms of trophies AND the last ten years. So to any reasonable person that would indicate they aren't the only thing that is problematic.
3. I agree with incompetent people running the club. But I did in my previous post already.
4. Yeah thank god that you are worried. That really helps us a ton.
5. Thanks, statements like this never backfire.
6. I also want competent owners.
7. How am I part of the problem? Because I am not angrily raising fists at people who don't give a flying feck about me and my opinion? I couldn't care less about the owners, I care about the football side of things. And with the money we spent, we should have been so much more successful. You seem to think more money means more success - well open your eyes we are the poster boy for this not not being true.
8. I am the reason, why the Glazers are still here? Interesting mate. I'd love to hear your thorough explanation of that.

Again - I get the hate for the owners. I really really do, those guys are easy to hate, they take money out of the club and they don't really seem to care about the same things, that the fans care about. But that isn't important to me. I see their responsibility in providing enough resources for the club to be successful on the pitch. And they do. I don't know why they seem adamant in bringing people in who would increase their ROI and that is an issue but is certainly isn't the single-biggest reason for the club "being destroyed". All this anger seems desperate. People try to avoid complexity, go for easy solution. Thats why "Glazers bad, they take money away". For some people that might be enough reason to get on their heels - to me it isn't. To be honest, I feel proud that we are one of the few topclubs around who do the things we do DESPITE being run like a real business. And not like ManCity (for quite some time) where it simply didn't matter if a 50 million FB flopped. He'll be replaced by another and case closed.

Except the easy seems to be beyond you.

On the first one, they were lucky that when they took over we were being managed by footballs greatest ever manager. Were supposed to give them credit for that? Ever since they haven't had him to hide they've been exposed. And yes they loaded us with debt in 2005. Were still paying off their interest liability 17 years on. I believe a billion has been paid servicing their debt.

On the second, that makes no sense. Who has appointed our dream team of competence - Arnold, Murtough and Fletcher? Who appointed Woodward? Or is that conveniently now not their job?

 

[amolbhatia50k]

The businessmen behind the scenes have no interest in actually running a football club, that's too expensive. They want to instead do the bare minimum and scrape top 4, as that's the most effective way of making the owners money. Rangnick never stood a chance here, as what Van Gaal said about us is true, we're not a football club under this ownership.

It's not just a lack of willingness. We cant expect businessmen to suddenly become prophets of the football world. A club as big as United should have a DoF or a transfer / administrative committee which involves people who have been successful at doing that elsewhere.

That's where the problem lies. We spend plenty of money. But we don't believe in meritocracy and genuine excellence in our appointments / hirings / signings. Just give to ... whoever the Glazers fancy.

 

[MadDogg]

Ralf had it very right in his analysis of Manchester United. The problem with the team is the mentality of players. There needs to be an overhaul to stop the rot. Bringing in new players to integrate in this team will simply allow the rot to spread to the new players. This is why overhaul is needed and big changes made. Your team cant be allowed to have DDG, Shaw, Maguire, Fred, Dalot, Martial, AWB, Mctominay and a sulking Ronaldo bedding in with your new signings. They will simply be corrupted and all these players need to be replaced with immediate effect.

Yep, I've said this multiple times myself. The entire mentality and culture of the dressing room is broken and needs to be completely reset, and the best way to do that is with a significant amount of players coming in all at once. Even if on the individual level they aren't much better than the players that they are replacing, the key is that having so many new players come in together won't just stop the new guys from descending into the rot of what we've currently got, but it'll also hopefully pull the remaining players out of it. It's a fresh start for everyone, and certainly would have worked best at the same time a new manager was also coming in.

However if there's one thing Fred can't be criticised for it's his mentality. He's the one who's still trying his heart out there while most of the rest of the team sleepwalk around. If his talent matched his mentality he'd be a fantastic player.

 

[croadyman]

The businessmen behind the scenes have no interest in actually running a football club, that's too expensive. They want to instead do the bare minimum and scrape top 4, as that's the most effective way of making the owners money. Rangnick never stood a chance here, as what Van Gaal said about us is true, we're not a football club under this ownership.

Nope he was ousted for telling the truth

 

[NZT-One]

Except the easy seems to be beyond you.

On the first one, they were lucky that when they took over we were being managed by footballs greatest ever manager. Were supposed to give them credit for that? Ever since they haven't had him to hide they've been exposed. And yes they loaded us with debt in 2005. Were still paying off their interest liability 17 years on. I believe a billion has been paid servicing their debt.

On the second, that makes no sense. Who has appointed our dream team of competence - Arnold, Murtough and Fletcher? Who appointed Woodward? Or is that conveniently now not their job?

I hear you, but I don't see the relevance of being lucky 15 years ago when thinking about the current biggest issues. You could also say, the player we had were lucky, that Fergie was around. Or you could ignore the things ManCity did, that turned out to be good, and just say they've been lucky. You can do it, but there is no point in doing it. The whole thing boils down to the fact, that we had our most successfull period when they were around already (and they spent money to keep it going) and we also had the worst and driest period in terms of success in the last 10 years with them. Again - despite so much money going into the squad. It just isn't a factor that is even slightly bigger than many other factors. You could always say, hadn't we have the debt, we would have spent even more. Yeah great, a) we don't know that and b) if it isn't spent well, the invested amount becomes irrelevant (we are the poster boys for that).

We don't need to talk about your 2nd point. I've already stated that it is their responsibility to bring in more competent people. I added that I don't get why they don't do it - it would be for their own sake. Lets pressure them into bringing in knowledge and experience in the football and recruitment aspects - I'll stand with you as that makes sense. Trying to pressure against them as the owners, so they maybe sell the club, don't see the point in that.

 

[Sky1981]

At least his believes it now.

I guess it was not Ten Hag rejecting Rangnick's ideas outright, Ten Hag really wanted to see for himself and observe the team and make his own judgement, he said so in his first press conference, he also wanted to coach the team in the best way he could, inspire them and give them confidence and all, however, like Rangnick, he has seen enough and aside from the new players he signed, I can't tell who would be safe for the long term, not even Bruno & Sancho.

Ten Hag is not stupid nor naive. He knew this set of players are hopeless. His brain knows this. But he also know he rely on them. He can't possibly play the kids or buy a new set of eleven.

What do we expect him to do?

The players also knew that their job is on the line, they're not stupid and can read the forums to gauge where they stand.

It's better for them to play shit and get ETH in trouble fast and maybe he'll get the sack and they'll have clean slate again, or some caretaker they can blackmail into extending their contract. The wages they can never get elsewhere.

feck em

 

[Salford_Red83]

Ten Hag is not stupid nor naive. He knew this set of players are hopeless. His brain knows this. But he also know he rely on them. He can't possibly play the kids or buy a new set of eleven.

What do we expect him to do?

The players also knew that their job is on the line, they're not stupid and can read the forums to gauge where they stand.

It's better for them to play shit and get ETH in trouble fast and maybe he'll get the sack and they'll have clean slate again, or some caretaker they can blackmail into extending their contract. The wages they can never get elsewhere.

feck em

It's sensible to do what he has done.
Can't come in and make sweeping changes without judging the team and squad and more than enough time has passed now. He'll know where the issues are and what to do to change it.

Just gotta be patient

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

Ten Hag is not stupid nor naive. He knew this set of players are hopeless. His brain knows this. But he also know he rely on them. He can't possibly play the kids or buy a new set of eleven.

What do we expect him to do?

The players also knew that their job is on the line, they're not stupid and can read the forums to gauge where they stand.

It's better for them to play shit and get ETH in trouble fast and maybe he'll get the sack and they'll have clean slate again, or some caretaker they can blackmail into extending their contract. The wages they can never get elsewhere.

feck em

I do not disagree with most of what you just said here, but I don't know, this time it feels different, I do not think these players can get Ten Hag the sack by playing like shit, because Ten Hag is a new "Permanent" Manager, he has not been here that long, he can actually go to the board and say: "did you watch the 2 games we played just now, we must replace the entire squad in the next 3-4 windows, only then we can hope to succeed"

The Board (Murtough and Arnold) will have no choice but to accept it really at this stage, because the evidence is mounting and clear, and a total rebuild is required, they heard it from RR and now from Ten Hag who, they can't just sack (a new coach who they just handed a 3 years deal) for poor performances on the pitch.

 

[Delano]

I was a fan of RR. But in hindsight he was never going to leave a mark.

His stint as coach was shocking. He had no authority from day one and that undermined his short-term role and future at the club.

I completely understand why EtH would remove someone who the players hated. He most likely knew his budget so even if it was decided reculuctantly, he opted to build the players up from ground zero. So far, he hasn't. That has a lot to do with the level and attitude in the squad. Which he now realises.

Unfortunately, RR was a terrible hire from day one. He wasn't the level of coach we needed and he was never; despite it being his best role, going to be DOF.

I agree with mostly all of his comments and would have loved him as DOF. But considering our DOF hired him, that was never going to happen.

Right Man. Wrong Job. But the principles and ideas he put forward are what are needed for us to succeed.

 

[Sir Erik ten Hag]

I do not disagree with most of what you just said here, but I don't know, this time it feels different, I do not think these players can get Ten Hag the sack by playing like shit, because Ten Hag is a new "Permanent" Manager, he has not been here that long, he can actually go to the board and say: "did you watch the 2 games we played just now, we must replace the entire squad in the next 3-4 windows, only then we can hope to succeed"

The Board (Murtough and Arnold) will have no choice but to accept it really at this stage, because the evidence is mounting and clear, and a total rebuild is required, they heard it from RR and now from Ten Hag who, they can't just sack (a new coach who they just handed a 3 years deal) for poor performances on the pitch.

Mourinho and Ole were permanent managers, yet still got the sack after the players down-tooled. What makes Ten Hag any different in the players's eyes?

Mourinho's tenure got toxic towards the end. But the day our club sacked him in favor of Pogba was also the day players's power officially triumphed over manager's power at United. We opened a lethal floodgate that day.

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

Mourinho and Ole were permanent managers, yet still got the sack after the players down-tooled. What makes Ten Hag any different in the players's eyes?

Mourinho's tenure got toxic towards the end. But the day our club sacked him in favor of Pogba was also the day players's power officially triumphed over manager's power at United. We opened a lethal floodgate that day.

for me, it is not that Ten Hag is different or special, it is the prolonged current state of the club and the club's standing in football, that might push the board to act this time (I am only speculating here).

It has become clear that United is no longer a "Top Club", not sportingly, and probably soon, not commercially as well since the club has fallen behind and no longer is in the top 5 commercial clubs, and that is due to continued failure on the pitch, sacking Ten Hag would not improve the situation at all, it might even worsen it and the fans will not accept it, and the board knows that if the team keeps under-performing, then it would not be sustainable to keep these players, who might I add are on high wages, imagine the likes of Martial, Rashford, Sancho, Bruno, Maguire and Shaw, who are highly paid players in the PL, imagine if these players continue to perform poorly week after week, then this will force the board's hands in making moves in the transfer window and putting a plan together in order to basically gut the squad and change it.

 

[RedDevilFan01]

No honestly mate you've completely misinterpreted the statement and what was actually happening.

He was interim manager until the end of the season and then consultant for 2 years after that. It said it right in the clubs statement.

Sir, Let's do it this way. An Interim is one contract, and an extension is another, so these are two separate contracts and formalities. They need two different documents to sign. Based on what you have written, the club has already signed him for a two-year consultancy role. The club only signed as an Interim. Since they have not proceeded with a consultancy role with him (which the club was hoping to make one), there's no existence of such a position in this club now and before. So far as I remember, our conversation started from your lines where you have written - Ralf got sacked from the club.

Sir, don't mind me. I'm not taking this further from here, as I believe at this time, I made my explanation clear to you regarding this area.

 

[stevoc]

Just look at the clip that is on this site of his interview. Certainly the club are not doing what he has suggested and right now we are at the bottom of the PL. In fact they are doing the exact opposite.

So nothing specific then?

No one is saying that he is a top manager. But to say that he doesn't know how to structure a club is being ruddy ridiculous.

Good that I didn't say that or anything like it then isn't it.

 

[stevoc]

These ones. Ralf Rangnick: Manchester United need ‘open-heart surgery’ to recover | Manchester United | The Guardian

And my point is this: If you let a manager say this, then it impacts on you. Murtough and the club may choose to ignore it, but fans, the media and not least players in the squad or on the shortlist may choose to believe it. In this case, I think it's safe to assume that most did. The point is not Ralf Rangnick, the point is that this is a credible analysis of reality that, once it's out there from someone as inherently authoritative as the manager of that team, it's about how you deal with that reality, and with the perception that this is how it is. Neither the perception or the reality goes away just through ignoring Ralf Rangnick. And you then find yourself in a situation where you're running a course that almost nobody really believes in, and come across as an organisation that isn't dealing with reality. I take it I don't have to present an argument to support the contention that the club obviously has not been proceeding on the basis of a view of reality similar to the one Rangnick presented.

If they disagreed with this and had no plans to listen to him, then they should have prevented him from presenting such assessments to the public. And if Murtough ended up not on speaking terms with Rangnick, then he obviously badly botched his first big decision.

There's a lot to unpack here and I can see where you're coming from but a few thoughts.

'Open heart surgery' is a bit of an ambiguous statement, what does that really even mean in relation to a football team. Certainly it means a re-build but how many players 6-8-10?

Maybe the club/Ten Hag agreed but it isn't financially possible to buy 6-8-10 players in one window. This is likely.

Maybe Ten Hag disagrees to some extent or another or at least wants to make a first had assessment of the squad over a few months before deciding what's needed long term.

I doubt United 'let' Rangnick say anything, it seems from March onwards he was going off script and had his own agenda in his weekly press conferences.

And I agree the entire Rangnick saga from his initial hiring, to the consultant role that the club probably didn't want to his eventual firing was an ill thought farce form start to finish. I still don't trust the people running this club.

 

[TheGame]

I'm still confused why Ralf's role was scrapped? Surely ETH must have known the set up when he signed up to be manager.

 

[stevoc]

Sir, Let's do it this way. An Interim is one contract, and an extension is another, so these are two separate contracts and formalities. They need two different documents to sign. Based on what you have written, the club has already signed him for a two-year consultancy role. The club only signed as an Interim. Since they have not proceeded with a consultancy role with him (which the club was hoping to make one), there's no existence of such a position in this club now and before. So far as I remember, our conversation started from your lines where you have written - Ralf got sacked from the club.

Sir, don't mind me. I'm not taking this further from here, as I believe at this time, I made my explanation clear to you regarding this area.

Yes correct.

 

[Josh 76]

I'm still confused why Ralf's role was scrapped? Surely ETH must have known the set up when he signed up to be manager.

He was sacked for opening his mouth. It’s so obvious!

 

[OverratedOpinion]

He was shit.

He said we needed to buy a bunch of players, any fan on this forum can tell you that.

In the only role he ever took on with the club he was worse than a Norwegian League coach by a solid mile. Didn't improve a single player and took no responsibility for anything negative that happened under him.

 

[Newtonius]

He was shit.

He said we needed to buy a bunch of players, any fan on this forum can tell you that.

In the only role he ever took on with the club he was worse than a Norwegian League coach by a solid mile. Didn't improve a single player and took no responsibility for anything negative that happened under him.

The only role that he isn't actually proficient at yeah, wasn't allowed a number of his staff, nor did he have any authority in the role as it was only temporary.

Any fan will only say that with hindsight too, at the time Ralf was going against the grain this was the squad that finished 2nd + Varane/Ronaldo/Sancho and Ole "wasn't getting the best out of them". Absolutely nobody here would have said they was this shit. Which is precisely why this forum bought the clubs PR on Ralf at the time yet this thread is now getting serious traffic.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

The only role that he isn't actually proficient at yeah, wasn't allowed a number of his staff, nor did he have any authority in the role as it was only temporary.

Any fan will only say that with hindsight too, at the time Ralf was going against the grain this was the squad that finished 2nd + Varane/Ronaldo/Sancho and Ole "wasn't getting the best out of them".

Exactly so he was a shit coach.

So you don't think we thought there were problems with the squad after getting battered by Watford?

 

[RedorDead21]

I never seen his time as manager as long term and I don’t think the club did either. I seen it as a back to the shop floor stint to help with the longer term plan for the club. Sadly his poor period (for many reasons out of his control) seemed to backfire against the long term vision. I think he should have been moved upstairs to carry on the work. ETH should have had no say in that process. They’d be on a similar page right now I’m sure.

 

[Oranges038]

I'm still confused why Ralf's role was scrapped? Surely ETH must have known the set up when he signed up to be manager.

Officially RR has said himself it was a mutual decision because he was taking up the Austria job, he didn't think he would be able to do both.

Unofficially he was pissed off he didn't get any of the players or all the staff he told the club to sign up. He pissed off loads of players, hated half the squad as much as they hated him, didn't have any authority, told the club to spend loads of money, wanted to get rid of Ronaldo and he was a useless manager.

 

[RepardReece]

Exactly so he was a shit coach.

So you don't think we thought there were problems with the squad after getting battered by Watford?

I think any interim manager would've been destined to fail over the period of 6-months.

We saw the style of play Rangnick clearly wanted to play for 30mins at Crystal Palace, but our players clearly have the wrong mindset / aren't good enough.

He didn't assert himself at all, however, which is probably why we ended up playing terribly for the remainder of the season and never played the way he wanted to.

For me, these reports of players wanting Ronaldo gone really show how brittle and weak-minded our players are. Ronaldo is a serial winner, his ego is probably a bit too big but these players wanting him gone because he's frustrated that we're playing shit says it all really. Ole's babying of the team has clearly rubbed off on them, and now that coaches are coming in demanding more they're not happy / incapable.

 

[Newtonius]

Exactly so he was a shit coach.

So you don't think we thought there were problems with the squad after getting battered by Watford?

Well yeah but his coaching is pretty irrelevant what excited fans was the long term possibility and the semblance of a plan, as opposed to the current scattergun approach.

Mentality maybe, most of it was pointed at Ole and his coaching pretty easy to go back and read it.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

I think any interim manager would've been destined to fail over the period of 6-months.

Nonsense.

 

[RedorDead21]

Nonsense.

because these players have shown they respond well to a manager they know they will outlast? Even SAFs team downed tools after hearing of his pending retirement it’s 100% how these top level players behave! If any United player knows he or they can collaborate to see you gone, you are weak and in trouble. When they know for certain they can have you sold on easily and efficiently, it’s obviously the better environment to operate and motivate the playing staff.

 

[RepardReece]

Nonsense.

If that's your reply there's no point debating.

 

[#07]

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No worries guys. We don't need Rangnick when we've got Woodward advising the Board.

We may as well shut this thread. Ed Woodward's obviously much better at advising Murtough and Arnold on squad building than Rangnick could ever be.

 

[hasanejaz88]

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No worries guys. We don't need Rangnick when we've got Woodward advising the Board.

We may as well shut this thread. Ed Woodward's obviously much better at advising Murtough and Arnold on squad building than Rangnick could ever be.

What is Sam Luckhurst's reliability? Seems to be coming up with more wacky stories by the day and gets a kick out of tweeting news making us look bad.

Not saying we aren't, but sometimes people can get into a rush and start to exaggerate stories to build viewership.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

If that's your reply there's no point debating.

I am not debating you, what you said is absurd.

Sam Alladyce would have got better results than Rangnick in that 6 months.

 

[mu4c_20le]

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No worries guys. We don't need Rangnick when we've got Woodward advising the Board.

We may as well shut this thread. Ed Woodward's obviously much better at advising Murtough and Arnold on squad building than Rangnick could ever be.

Fake account

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

Tweet

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No worries guys. We don't need Rangnick when we've got Woodward advising the Board.

We may as well shut this thread. Ed Woodward's obviously much better at advising Murtough and Arnold on squad building than Rangnick could ever be.

Real smart move. Let’s turn to the guy who’s gradually destroyed this club over the last 10 years for advice on how to run the club, what on earth could possibly go wrong? This simply cannot be true, or else we’re in even deeper trouble than we first feared.

 

[RepardReece]

I am not debating you, what you said is absurd.

Sam Alladyce would have got better results than Rangnick in that 6 months.

Erik Ten Hag is off to a good start with the same team isn't he?

OGS really did a good job last season?

This is 3 samples of managers not getting a tune out of these players, so no, it's not absurd. Obviously ETH has just come in, but based off reports he's already realised the squad is utter terrible.

 

[AdNani]

Fake account

as if people believed that

 

[OverratedOpinion]

Erik Ten Hag is off to a good start with the same team isn't he?

OGS really did a good job last season?

This is 3 samples of managers not getting a tune out of these players, so no, it's not absurd. Obviously ETH has just come in, but based off reports he's already realised the squad is utter terrible.

I think Rangnick did an awful lot of damage to the confidence of this squad by being the worst coach we have had in decades and then insulting all the players for it.

Our squad is not great but Ole has proven it is better than this.

EtH is suffering from that in part I would imagine.

I think what you are missing is that Ragnick is genuinely dog shit as a coach. No ability to inspire a single player, no ability to improve a single player, can't set up a defence. Ole at least knew how to set up a low block defence and counter with pace whilst making a midfield with average players functional, most importantly instilling a degree of confidence into a player.

 

[clarkydaz]

Officially RR has said himself it was a mutual decision because he was taking up the Austria job, he didn't think he would be able to do both.

Unofficially he was pissed off he didn't get any of the players or all the staff he told the club to sign up. He pissed off loads of players, hated half the squad as much as they hated him, didn't have any authority, told the club to spend loads of money, wanted to get rid of Ronaldo and he was a useless manager.

he told the club to STOP spending loads of money, forever going for older guys on their last big payday

 

[Buster15]

Those are my thoughts as well. I think a lot of fans, when it turned out that Ralf was shit at managing, latched on to the idea that the real change would come when he stepped into his consultancy and invested a lot in that idea.

But was he really shit as a manager.
Yes the results under him were poor, I accept that.
But you will know that if some of the players decide they don't like him for any one of a number of reasons, that is it. We have seen that before, no?
I mean when your manager tells the truth, Manchester United need open heart surgery, which is 100% correct, those players can make you look like a shit manager.
Has anything changed since?

 

[Oranges038]

he told the club to STOP spending loads of money, forever going for older guys on their last big payday

Nope, he wanted several players who combined would have cost in the 100s of millions. That is not telling the club to stop spending money, it's telling them to spend it, just spend it differently.

 

[George The Best]

I think Rangnick did an awful lot of damage to the confidence of this squad by being the worst coach we have had in decades and then insulting all the players for it.

Our squad is not great but Ole has proven it is better than this.

EtH is suffering from that in part I would imagine.

I think what you are missing is that Rangnick is genuinely dog shit as a coach. No ability to inspire a single player, no ability to improve a single player, can't set up a defence. Ole at least knew how to set up a low block defence and counter with pace whilst making a midfield with average players functional, most importantly instilling a degree of confidence into a player.

Really agree with the bold part. He may have been right in saying the whole team needed changing - but that should have been kept private. Going public was completely demotivating. How would anybody feel if your boss said that everybody in the company is crap and needs replacing? If they downed tools you could sort of understand.

 

[RepardReece]

I think Rangnick did an awful lot of damage to the confidence of this squad by being the worst coach we have had in decades and then insulting all the players for it.

Our squad is not great but Ole has proven it is better than this.

EtH is suffering from that in part I would imagine.

I think what you are missing is that Rangnick is genuinely dog shit as a coach. No ability to inspire a single player, no ability to improve a single player, can't set up a defence. Ole at least knew how to set up a low block defence and counter with pace whilst making a midfield with average players functional, most importantly instilling a degree of confidence into a player.

Not really the whole point though. My original post stated any interim manager would've failed - they already lacked confidence, couldn't take to the new tactics Ole tried to setup last year, we had a non-existent midfield and if reports are to be true, had Ronaldo ruining the team's coherency.

Ole molecoddled the team during his whole tenure, and it seems to me the majority of players we have are weak brittle fools. Any manager coming in changing tactics will have had a challenge with that mindset.

Yes, Rangnick was anything but good for us, but what interim manager could we have got for 6months that would've changed the outcome? Maybe a few results would've changed, but that's about it. It's not like Guardiola was available, what options did we have as an interim?