The whole thing was an absolute disaster.
Ralf Rangnick's consultancy role has been scrapped
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Maybe we just hired Ralf on a interim basis with the pretence of him moving upstairs just to appease the fan base.
And also to use it as a excuse to not get Conte when he was available because he is kinda scary to deal with and United's top guys do not want that.
And also to use it as a excuse to not get Conte when he was available because he is kinda scary to deal with and United's top guys do not want that.
There's not much else to discuss on here at the minute United related that isn't depressing. And I thought he was forgotten about until we lost a game now all of a sudden he's the answer to all our troubles again.
Huh? He led them to a title challenge in his first spell before falling out with Rudi Assauer (essentially for the same reason he got into trouble here) , and won the DFB Pokal (albeit joining them when they had reached the final, but they decimated the opponents in the final) and reached the semi final of the champions league in his second stint at the club.
Hardly average for a club like Schalke.
He was a bad manager for us. But stop trying to rewrite history to fit some idiotic narrative that he never had any success as a manager.
Cheer up, we might be signing Jamie Vardy
There's not much else to discuss on here at the minute United related that isn't depressing. And I thought he was forgotten about until we lost a game now all of a sudden he's the answer to all our troubles again.
He was spot on about the kind of players we need, he mentioned in one of the press conference that we need players with physicality and someone who plays with high intensity, both are lacking big time in this team.
Would be a great signing after missing out on our top target Arnautović.Cheer up, we might be signing Jamie Vardy
Fun times ahead.
So he has won a domestic cup and challenged for the league once, I think that qualifies as average , and it was hardly a beating stick, I meant the expectations were low.
Yep.
Ralf even said in January he asked the board to have a discussion about a new signing. They didn't even respond to him. Radio silence. Didn't say no, didn't say yes. Just ghosted him.
And he reached the semi final of the champions league after beating a very strong inter side. That isnt average at all with Schalke.
What if it turns out that rangnick had suggested his name before leaving ?
He would have been good as a DoF. No matter how shit he was as a manager. The plan was right but again shit execution by the club.
What if it turns out that rangnick had suggested his name before leaving ?
I have no doubt Jamie Vardy was high on Ralf's list of recommendations.
Most fans underestimate club politics which is strange considering that its the second driving force at any club (the first being the owner's ambition). When Ole was here he gave jobs for the boys (Carricky, Fletchery, Phelany etc), he signed many British players (signings and contract extensions) which in turn put money inside local agents pockets most of whom had worked with our former players. Ole treated people close to the old regime like royalty (SAF and ex players etc). Howson himself said that he had recently lost the inside man who used to feed him with transfer information. I am sure that former players got far more information than Howson did which in turn gave them a competitive advantage over other pundits who might not have any links with the club whatsoever. Its within the interest of many to minimise Ole's train wreck as they wish that someone similar to him (Rooney?) would one day take the job.
United are stocked with finance people who have no clue about how football work and football men who are either incompetent or whose knowledge of football is quite frankly obsolete. Which is why I believe that the way forward is to hire experienced people from outside who are specialised in their job.
I remember we were called Brexit FC for a time, there were some really strange transfers looking back. I do always wonder about Ole, he was someone happy to be a sub as a player even though he was easily good enough to start at most PL teams - maybe his mentality just wasn't there from the beginning to manage United because he loved it so much it blinded his decision making, he just seemed constantly in awe of the club and didn't seem to question/challenge anything compared to LVG, Mou, Ragnick even ETH now saying we need players. Then Ragnick came in and basically gave us a running commentary on how bad it really was, like a home inspector pulling up the carpet and exposing a house with rotting floorboards, we thought a real restructure would begin and we'd have a new look club but aside from firing the senior scouts I don't think we've actually done anything?
Sums it up for me. He called out the existing players though and once he realised and went public with the gravity of the situation in terms of what we needed he was shown out of the back door.
It was an uncomfortable truth for those in charge of the club and the solutions were going to cost money.
I will take every opportunity to defend the man because the abuse he received on this forum was horrid and disgraceful. Did he have a good reputation of being a fantastic coach? Probably not, other than pioneering the style of play for many current world-class managers. Should he have been given the job? It was a temporary basis that allowed us to commit to Ten Hagg for the summer and I personally couldn’t think of any decent managers available for a 5-6 month period.
With all that being said, he was left with an impossible task of trying to coach this rotten, toxic bunch of players. Fans were angry with him that he couldn’t get a tune out of them, but use the (very valid) excuse for Ten Hagg that it will take time to work his magic on this squad. Unfortunately, that excuse was swept aside for Rangnick who was given a squad of players who were mentally drained from the atrocious season they had played it by the midway point of the season.
His honestly was utterly refreshing and he was wise enough to acknowledge the limitations of our squad at a very early stage without mincing his words. The squad needed a huge overhaul and he said it loud and clear.
His performances as a manager was not impressive. Was that his fault? I would say the large chunk goes towards the players. He was given a group of players who were inflexible in trying to apply a dynamic modern day system.
Every club will have supporters who can be irrational at times, sometimes because of red-tinted spectacles or other times due to just being idiots. But I will never ever understand the toxicity this man had on this forum, and on TalkSPORT when it came to his time with us.
With all that being said, he was left with an impossible task of trying to coach this rotten, toxic bunch of players. Fans were angry with him that he couldn’t get a tune out of them, but use the (very valid) excuse for Ten Hagg that it will take time to work his magic on this squad. Unfortunately, that excuse was swept aside for Rangnick who was given a squad of players who were mentally drained from the atrocious season they had played it by the midway point of the season.
His honestly was utterly refreshing and he was wise enough to acknowledge the limitations of our squad at a very early stage without mincing his words. The squad needed a huge overhaul and he said it loud and clear.
His performances as a manager was not impressive. Was that his fault? I would say the large chunk goes towards the players. He was given a group of players who were inflexible in trying to apply a dynamic modern day system.
Every club will have supporters who can be irrational at times, sometimes because of red-tinted spectacles or other times due to just being idiots. But I will never ever understand the toxicity this man had on this forum, and on TalkSPORT when it came to his time with us.
He said utd need young and high energetic players. He was 100% correct.
Ten Hag has been fooled by pre season with that squad of players. Only realising now that the squad isn't what he thought it was.
Had him fooled and now getting late to change it.
Ten Hag has been fooled by pre season with that squad of players. Only realising now that the squad isn't what he thought it was.
Had him fooled and now getting late to change it.
Your post doesn't make much sense.
Anyway, ETH will have the team playing better that Ole there's no doubt about that. He could have just done what Ole did if he wanted to, sit back in both games, 6 at the back McFred permanently anchored in front of our deep defence and score a counter or a corner. We would have won both games Ole style. That's not what we want. We are trying to get the team to gradually actually play proper, up to date football. That's going to be very hard after 3 years of playing and training for Ole.
Still don't get ETH's decision not to have a meeting with him.
The guy was in charge for 6 months and ETH gave him ... a phone call.
The guy was in charge for 6 months and ETH gave him ... a phone call.
Excellent post and spot on.
Its also very weird to read some comments now that apparently anyone could see we needed 10 new players, from the same fans that where laughing at the notion at the time when Ralf put forward this statement.
The funniest thing to me is the idea that he shouldn't have gone public with his opinions.
Why exactly? Because it doesn't paint decision makers in nice light?
Why exactly? Because it doesn't paint decision makers in nice light?
Ok I'll try again.
You said ''Give Ralf a summer for transfers and training tactics etc I'm sure he would do way better than counter attacking Ole ball.''
Bit of a bold claim considering Solskjaer finished 3rd in his first full season but you could be right, my question is once Erik has had the same opportunity and a few months he should have this team doing as good or better than Ralf would have yes?
But conversely if he doesn't have us playing great football and getting consistent results in the manner you claim Ralf would have achieved then Ralf must be a better coach than ETH yes?
What were the positives and negatives of all his public statements?
Howson state that during Ole's regime, a transfer would need to go through four hoops (Joel Glazer, the scouts, the DOF and the manager) before being signed. Considering that our scouts/DOF aren't that great, that the manager has little time to scout players and that Joel knows nothing about football then no wonder why we went for known players from the EPL. I believe that United's higher ups are happy with the control they have and how its shared between so many stakeholders. That means that when shit hit fan no one can the brunt of the blame. The downside to that is that no one feels accountable about what is going on. Sure the manager might lose his job but there is minimum impact for the likes of Fletcher, Murtough and the CEO.
The answer for that is pretty simple. This team is built around counter attacking football. Most of Ole's and Mou's players can only play in such system. The only way ETH/Rangnick could thrive is for us to engage in a total overhaul of the squad.
I don't see how his statements made situation any different than it was/is. Suggestion that he shouldn't have gone public because it hurt players' feelings and in turn made them perform worse is ridiculous to me. And why would it make any difference to players and the board whether he said it publicly or privately to them, they would know about it anyway?
I also highly doubt he immediately went all public on his ideas, I'm quite sure he tried convincing some club seniors of what needs to be done, and after being ignored, tried pressuring them with help of media and possibly fans. It is pretty obvious right now that even that attempt only alienated him further and they planned on doing absolutely nothing.
So practically, his ideas were first ignored when they were private, and then also when he went public. I don't really see what he's to blame for, any sane man would publicly distance himself from the decision-making process in this club, otherwise there's a possibility part of blame would have been attached to him and perhaps he'd be pictured as a part of the clique.
Our owners and board are beyond help
What was Rangnick going to say to him? That the first team is chock full of lazy, untalented divas and that they would need 5+ signings to compete? Anyone with eyes and half a brain could see that. And it's obvious that Ten Hag took the job with assurances that the squad would be reinforced with several signings, otherwise he wouldn't be publicly begging for more players.
The club got 2 relative bargains in Malacia and Eriksen and then bought a central mid who can actually play with energy and play out from the back. Now it's time for the board to spend the rest of the £160 million everyone knows was required to improve the first team and get some fecking decent midfielders
For the record I think Rangnick was mostly correct but I can also understand why Ten Hag would want to avoid associating himself with someone who spent 3 months loudly criticizing the players he now has to coach.
So you think they had no positive or negative affect on anything then?
Yeah that one is hard to prove as who really knows what affect Rangnick's public statements ad on squad morale/confidence/performances.
Do you think it's possible it's affected transfer business this summer though?
When the manager of Manchester United is continually stating publicly that the team desperately needs 8-10 new players and 'open heart surgery', it's possible, likely even that that makes selling clubs think United are desperate for players and bumps up potential fees. But again maybe hard to prove as United have been getting shafted on fees for years.
And that just wouldn't do.
Let's not get into this again. He finished 3rd on 66 points. That would be 6th in any other season, including last year. Anyway, Eric will have the team playing better football there is no doubt in mind about that.
His general point seems clear enough: The squad requires extensive reconstruction. Not just players brought in, but also players pushed out. In other words, the basis for success is not already largely present. He talks about that not necessarily having to be a project of very long duration, perhaps not more than a year. I'd assume that would mean at least two summer windows.
Whatever the exact details of what such an approch would entail, what we are currently and actually doing obviously does not amount to it. So, the fact that this assessment was made (and that what everyone can see on the pitch so strongly supports its accuracy) inevitably undermines the club's credibility, when they are attempting to move forward by just supplementing the current core, and not making much of a job of that either.
I refuse to accept it was not possible for the club management to impose any reins on Rangnick's outspokenness. Clearly, they could have, if they had recognised the need to do so and the consequences of not doing so. Which is their job.
Of course he did want to spend money. That wasn't the initial point. It was talk about him wanting Alvarez, Vlahovic and Diaz. Which isn't the case as he just listed them as examples. Of course he wanted to spent money, any sensible manager would. I am sure, you would too, right? Difference between Ralfs stance and yours maybe is that he would have went to bring in one or two established players and maybe 4 or 5 promising ones while you (maybe, I don't know) would try to bring in 3 very good established players for bigger money. When Ralf was around the team, it was obvious that many players wouldn't be around after the summer: Mata, Matic, Pogba, Lingard, Cavani, Greenwood as well - maybe add to that even Martial, Henderson and Bailley, so many departures will always affect team spirit AND more importantly that number puts Ralfs "up to ten players" (by the way he said "might be 6, 8, 10 players") into perspective. I am sure he was smart enough to know, that you don't do that all at once but.
100% agree.
I think, that is the essential part above specific names and numbers of new players. He knows that quality without hard work isn't all that much, a lesson quite a few fans don't understand as well.
This is probably what happened, which makes it an even more bizarre decision.
Ralf hadn't coached in years and wasn't a particularly spectacular coach either. Surely there were dozens of better candidates available if we were just looking for an interim coach and not somebody to overhaul the entire front office.
Not really sure what your point is. It seems we agree he knew the club needed to spend a lot of money and said as much. It was how that money would be spent and the profile of the players being brought in. Anybody with half a brain that went in there would be able to come to that conclusion.
Whether or not he wanted to spend the money right away for him is another question. He did want a couple of players in January and said as much.
German - Dutch rivalry? Arrogance of a bald man with a goatee. Direction from the club. Who knows.
He coached Leipzig for a season just two years ago. And since it was Murtough who hired him, it seems unlikely he would've planned to have himself replaced. So whatever advisory role murthough had in mind was either insignificant that he went behind our backs and took the Austria job, or ralfs performance changed his mind in the end. Otherwise I don't see Murtough entrusting him to overhaul our back office, that is just an assumption based on his CV. He is, after all, an outsider. To expect the club to suddenly give him all this power seems a stretch for me.
I get what you're saying mate but saying something needs done is easy enough but actually achieving it often isn't as straight forward.
If we are to assume Ralf meant 8-10 new players over 2 summer transfer windows with a decent clear out as well. Then it looks like the club are trying to achieve that with varying amounts of success are they not?
Players out- Pogba, Cavani, Mata, Lingard, Matic, Grant, Pereira, Henderson, Telles with possibly AWB, Bailly and Jones following. So probably at least 10 players out by the end of the window.
Players in- Malacia, Martinez, Eriksen, with possibly Rabiot, DeJong and a forward arriving that could be 6 new arrivals by the end of the window.
Repeat that next summer and the squad would will be drastically different to the one that finished last season. Whether it will be better who can say and whether or not that's exactly what Ralf had in mind again who knows but it's clear that the club and ETH are trying to reshape the squad even if it doesn't seem to be going exactly to plan. And to be fair the DeJong unpaid wages saga and Ronaldo deciding he wants to leave a few days before pre-season are both things out of the club and Ten Hag's control.
You don't want to answer, no worries mate.
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I don't think so. Nearly all of those are peripheral players. That is not what we are talking about. And come on, it's not as if making changes to the core if the team, including selling or dropping 2 or 3 key players, is an extraordinary and unheard of thing. It's quite feasible, given will.
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