Ralf Rangnick's consultancy role has been scrapped

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NZT-One

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As a manager at United his record was extremely poor. And his record at other clubs were not great either. His experience was in building clubs. So why on earth did they not use him for what he was good at and then use him for what he was not good at? Show how shite the management of the club is.
Always thought, this question would be obvious. We were looking for a manager, not for a director of football or something along those lines. Why would Murtough move to bring in somebody who could threaten his position? Think it was pretty obvious to him that he would be the one if the time comes. They were looking for a manager, best case scenario proven winner, experienced, attacking philosophy, somewhat modern. Didn't Gary Neville repeatedly say, get the best in class? I am sure, in those talk RRs name popped up at some point (not because he is such a good coach, but he is a seasoned pro and many many many of the best coaches will not just move midseason so they weren't candidates as interim). And the club was seemingly ready to make use of his knowledge beyond coaching as well in one way or the other.
 
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NZT-One

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Yeah, he was fine. A case of transference perhaps.
:D Had to google it but yes, I agree. Personally, I don't really buy into the story that he was chased away once he criticized in public. I could be wrong because I know there is a difference in mentality and something that a German would consider as direct and honest would feel like some sort of personal attack in another country. I actually think, we went into the whole work relationship thing without a really thorough plan (would fit into what we saw this summer). We left it open, what consulting would mean, but RR could have changed that if he wanted. And then when ETH was secured, the whole consultancy thing didn't seem like something of big priority anymore for the club. And when ETH and RR talked and it was clear, that their intentions or imaginations of a productive work environment didn't line up, then RR just left for something that seemed more promising to him.

I definitely think, the club should have tried to keep him in one way or the other, be it only for his experience and advice. But the rest of the story with evil Murtough and Glazers shutting down poor Ralf, I don't know, doesn't seem very convincing to me.
 

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:D Had to google it but yes, I agree. Personally, I don't really buy into the story that he was chased away once he criticized in public. I could be wrong because I know there is a difference in mentality and something that a German would consider as direct and honest would feel like some sort of personal attack in another country. I actually think, we went into the whole work relationship thing without a really thorough plan (would fit into what we saw this summer). We left it open, what consulting would mean, but RR could have changed that if he wanted. And then when ETH was secured, the whole consultancy thing didn't seem like something of big priority anymore for the club. And when ETH and RR talked and it was clear, that their intentions or imaginations of a productive work environment didn't line up, then RR just left for something that seemed more promising to him.

I definitely think, the club should have tried to keep him in one way or the other, be it only for his experience and advice. But the rest of the story with evil Murtough and Glazers shutting down poor Ralf, I don't know, doesn't seem very convincing to me.
Yeah, I'm not sure. It seemed to me that he was pretty isolated as soon as results started to go badly and he was talking about the process of hiring a new manager and you could tell he was completely out of the loop but he kept acting as if he was in. But he was obviously in charge of a shower of cnuts and he did himself little favours in terms of the personnel he hired (I know it was a big ask, asking people to come for a few months with no assurances of anything more, but still).

My feeling is if the club wanted him involved further he'd still be involved. Shame he's not. But we've obviously got someone acting as Football Director and he'd effectively have someone here much better suited to that job than himself. And I cannot imagine Rangnick's truth conferences did not play a gigantic part in all of this. That and the team disintegrating (or continuing to much like they did under Ole when he tried something other than underdog football).
 
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NZT-One

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Yeah, I'm not sure. It seemed to me that he was pretty isolated as soon as results started to go badly and he was talking about the process of hiring a new manager and you could tell he was completely out of the loop but he kept acting as if he was in. But he was obviously in charge of a shower of cnuts and he did himself little favours in terms of the personnel he hired (I know it was a big ask, asking people to come for a few months with no assurances of anything more, but still).

My feeling is if the club wanted him involved further he'd still be involved. Shame he's not. But we've obviously got someone acting as Football Director and he'd effectively have someone here much better suited to that job than himself. And I cannot imagine Rangnick's truth conferences did not play a gigantic part in all of this. That and the team disintegrating (or continuing to much like they did under Ole when he tried something other than underdog football).
See where you're coming from. Seems plausible for sure. About the team desintegrating, I was always under the impression, that this was more due to fact, that there were so many players in the team who knew, they would be gone by the end of season and this vibe killed off any enthusiasm. Granted, his "organized approach" probably could the little bit of fun, some of our players had. It is a shame, because that isn't even the kind of football he was known for.

Maybe the real backgrounds will come out one day. Certainly interesting.
 

stevoc

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100% agree. Even if you didn’t know all that, it was obvious just looking at him that he could not cope with the demands of day-to-day management; he didn’t have the energy for it or the desire to do it. Possibly he thought he could do it before he took the role, who knows, but if so, he soon realised it was a mistake.

I don’t know if there was someone else at the club who could have taken over the interim coaching role so that he could get on with the “upstairs” bit but that might have been better than him soldiering on getting more knackered and more depressed.
If there was we wouldn't have hired Rangnick in the first place.
 

OrcaFat

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Never had the impression that he was depressed or anything. Lets not go painting the picture more colorful than it was.
Thanks but you seem to have applied a “colourful” interpretation.

To me he was miserable and looked exhausted. That’s what I saw. I’m not saying he was suicidal or about to physically collapse, if I thought that I’d say that. He didn’t look like a guy with lots of positive energy, which is what you need, every day, continuously.
 

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If there was we wouldn't have hired Rangnick in the first place.
Silly me. But I meant AFTER he was appointed when it was not going well. Fletcher for example. He couldn’t have been worse.
 

NZT-One

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Thanks but you seem to have applied a “colourful” interpretation.

To me he was miserable and looked exhausted. That’s what I saw. I’m not saying he was suicidal or about to physically collapse, if I thought that I’d say that. He didn’t look like a guy with lots of positive energy, which is what you need, every day, continuously.
Like Mourinho?

^^ No I understand what you mean, as the other poster said, he seemed somewhat isolated, think that is a good way to put it. And sure, the enthusiasm wasn't really there at some point anymore. Probably a definition thing, when I hear miserable, I think of Mourinho, when I hear depressed, I also have picture in my head. But describing it as resignated or/and not very energetic makes sense.
 

stevoc

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Silly me. But I meant AFTER he was appointed when it was not going well. Fletcher for example. He couldn’t have been worse.
I know what you meant mate, my point was if there had already been someone at the club who was suitable to be the interim manager then they would have been given the job after Ole was sacked. Remember that Carrick did a decent job as caretaker and he wasn't even considered for the Interim job. Obviously the club wanted an experienced hand which is what lead us to Rangnick.
 

OrcaFat

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I know what you meant mate, my point was if there had already been someone at the club who was suitable to be the interim manager then they would have been given the job after Ole was sacked. Remember that Carrick did a decent job as caretaker and he wasn't even considered for the Interim job. Obviously the club wanted an experienced hand which is what lead us to Rangnick.
Yes, I know all that. Problem is he was shit and wasn’t spending time on what he’s good at which is the very point I was originally replying to. Added to that, when something isn’t working you might as well look at alternatives. Yes, yes, the club didn’t agree and persevered with him - I know what actually happened. It was a mistake, as far as I recall, a fecking car crash.
 

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See where you're coming from. Seems plausible for sure. About the team desintegrating, I was always under the impression, that this was more due to fact, that there were so many players in the team who knew, they would be gone by the end of season and this vibe killed off any enthusiasm. Granted, his "organized approach" probably could the little bit of fun, some of our players had. It is a shame, because that isn't even the kind of football he was known for.

Maybe the real backgrounds will come out one day. Certainly interesting.
That definitely played a part and we've gotten rid of a few that needed to shift, but the malaise is undeniably still active. Ronaldo plays a big part, but so do players who have been put on contracts they don't merit or players whose fees are way above their value, all of which contributes to a culture of inferiority and entitlement.

With Rangnick, I'm sure he took the money and ran, i.e. non-disclosure agreement. Which, for him, is probably quite difficult to stick to. I wouldn't take anything a player says at face value. And who else at the club has credibility to speak on what's been going on behind the scenes? They are mostly just people without experience, learning on the job, unqualified for the task at hand. As is clearly evident, much as the previous 9 years.
 

stevoc

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Yes, I know all that. Problem is he was shit and wasn’t spending time on what he’s good at which is the very point I was originally replying to. Added to that, when something isn’t working you might as well look at alternatives. Yes, yes, the club didn’t agree and persevered with him - I know what actually happened. It was a mistake, as far as I recall, a fecking car crash.
I mean I don't disagree with your assessment, the end of last season was abysmal, probably the worst run of results the clubs been on in 30+ years. But having already sacked one manager mid-season I reckon the club didn't want the embarrassment of removing the Interim coach that replaced Solskjaer as well.
 

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Presume the consultancy was sacked because 1) eth didn't want to work with Ralf 2) Ralf got Austria job 3) Ralf did so badly as manager it might have taken the shine off him
 

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£85m which when converted to Euros is €100m which when converted back to Pounds Sterling but the British press is £100m plus addons.
 

Greck

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Presume the consultancy was sacked because 1) eth didn't want to work with Ralf 2) Ralf got Austria job 3) Ralf did so badly as manager it might have taken the shine off him
This is so unfair to hide it behind ETH. ETH didn't hire him or ask for a consultant. Ralf was never there for him or vice versa. He was there for Murtough who seems to have turned ETH into a consultant and manager rolled in one.

I'd even consider a motion to rereview his stint as manager from being a disaster to just being vaguely underwhelming. There's no proper measure of his tenure now that we've confirmed the squad really are this garbage. I mean ETH after several signings and a preseason lost his first 2 games and got trashed by Brentford. Is having to concede the midfield battle to the likes of southampton because the team lacks so much.
 

Crashoutcassius

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This is so unfair to hide it behind ETH. ETH didn't hire him or ask for a consultant. Ralf was never there for him or vice versa. He was there for Murtough who seems to have turned ETH into a consultant and manager rolled in one.

I'd even consider a motion to rereview his stint as manager from being a disaster to just being vaguely underwhelming. There's no proper measure of his tenure now that we've confirmed the squad really are this garbage. I mean ETH after several signings and a preseason lost his first 2 games and got trashed by Brentford. Is having to concede the midfield battle to the likes of southampton because the team lacks so much.
ETH got thrashed by Brentford because of his coaching and management not because of a player for player quality comparison
 

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This is so unfair to hide it behind ETH. ETH didn't hire him or ask for a consultant. Ralf was never there for him or vice versa. He was there for Murtough who seems to have turned ETH into a consultant and manager rolled in one.

I'd even consider a motion to rereview his stint as manager from being a disaster to just being vaguely underwhelming. There's no proper measure of his tenure now that we've confirmed the squad really are this garbage. I mean ETH after several signings and a preseason lost his first 2 games and got trashed by Brentford. Is having to concede the midfield battle to the likes of southampton because the team lacks so much.
Motion categorically denied with no chance of appeal.
 

Greck

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ETH got thrashed by Brentford because of his coaching and management not because of a player for player quality comparison
The issues that plagued that Brentford game were copied straight from last season's ills. From our openness in the middle to poor ball retention against anyone. There's a reason the hot topic right now is whether we should go back to playing negative and it's because of issues carried over from last season. Mind you this is last season's team plus 100m worth of signings getting outplayed and pinned in our half
 

Abraxas

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Seems pretty obvious at this point why ETH was not even keen to field calls from Ralfy boy. It starts to become clear when you see the nature of our summer business.He was always going to sign all his own players this summer and had no interest in Ralf's view of the next big things from Austria and Germany.

Maybe he didn't find his summation of the squad to be particularly useful from a failed manager, when he has his own eyes to watch the games and assess the problems. Or he didn't want certain players tarred before he had a chance to work with them under his own methods.

It's just interesting to see how it has all worked out. I guess if ETH was not a manager with strong ideas for exact signings it might have been different.
 

Crashoutcassius

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The issues that plagued that Brentford game were copied straight from last season's ills. From our openness in the middle to poor ball retention against anyone. There's a reason the hot topic right now is whether we should go back to playing negative and it's because of issues carried over from last season. Mind you this is last season's team plus 100m worth of signings getting outplayed and pinned in our half
Last season's ills were a result of ralfs coaching and management. We came second and third the prior years.
 

Crashoutcassius

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Seems pretty obvious at this point why ETH was not even keen to field calls from Ralfy boy. It starts to become clear when you see the nature of our summer business.He was always going to sign all his own players this summer and had no interest in Ralf's view of the next big things from Austria and Germany.

Maybe he didn't find his summation of the squad to be particularly useful from a failed manager, when he has his own eyes to watch the games and assess the problems. Or he didn't want certain players tarred before he had a chance to work with them under his own methods.

It's just interesting to see how it has all worked out. I guess if ETH was not a manager with strong ideas for exact signings it might have been different.
Tbh we were desperate for ETH so he held all the cards. In future I think we will say to managers that it's none of their business how transfer are done
 

SmallCaine

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Last season's ills were a result of ralfs coaching and management. We came second and third the prior years.
What about Ole before him, the minute ole stopped trying to counter and actually get this team to play like utd instead of tottenham we got taken apart or was that on ralf too, how about eth's start where him trying to get this team to play progressive football saw him beaten by brentford and brighton, was that rangnick's fault aswell? This insistence that its not the players but the manager is why we are on our 4th manager since mourinho and we still look hopeless.
 
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lex talionis

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The collapse last season comes down to poor management. Ole should have been sacked at the end of the prior season. We should have sold Pogba. We should not have extended Mata’s contract. We should not have brought in Ronaldo, even if that meant him going to City…whom I doubt actually wanted him.

How this relates to Ralf is that there would have been no need for an interim manager had Ole been sacked at the of the prior season. But as it happened we needed an interim manager Ralf was a sensible choice although at the time I argued for Conte. Conte is flying high now with Spurs but one can reasonably argue that it was a better move to wait until May to appoint ten Hag.
 

Crashoutcassius

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What about Ole before him, the minute ole stopped trying to counter and actually get this team to play like utd instead of tottenham we got taken apart or was that on ralf too, how about eth's start where him trying to get this team to play progressive football saw him beaten by brentford and brighton, was that rangnick's fault aswell? This insistence that its not the players but the manager is why we are on our 4th manager since mourinho and we still look hopeless.
I think it's on the manager that we lost four nil to brentford. we have better players than them. That is all I'm saying. If the players weren't motivated that is on the manager who motivates them. They can be motivated : see Liverpool and our team that finished second
 

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Interview with Ralf Rangnick; regarding Manchester United: "It was already clear to me after two weeks where the problems were and what needed to be done to fix them - but the question is whether you have the opportunity to change these things."

STANDARD: We live in times of war, pandemic, inflation, energy crisis. At the same time, the Premier League is reporting a new transfer record, with 1.8 billion euros spent. What comes to mind?

Rangnick: The fact that this gap between professional soccer and the fans who finance the whole thing is widening has been an issue for some time. It's up to the individual clubs and associations to ensure that we remain tangible and close to the spectators. It's not going to happen that we turn the wheel back, even if we spend two hours discussing where soccer might have taken a bit of a wrong turn. The important thing for me as a national coach is: What contribution can we make?

STANDARD: Your first four games as team boss have triggered a small wave of euphoria. Was the fans' and media's satisfaction greater than your own?

Rangnick: Yes, perhaps. I think three of those first four games were really good in terms of performance. I still think we could have had two or three more points. In the last game, it was a combination of four or five important players not being available and the tank being empty. So it's difficult to put your horsepower on the road again in this atmosphere away from home. The fact that the team is proactive, as it was in the home games, and wants to take charge - that's the demand we have for the qualifying games as well. That's the kind of soccer we want to play.

STANDARD: This team manager job is also a new experience for you. Do you have the feeling that you're a bit underchallenged?

Rangnick: No. I'm quite happy that there's time for other things, too, which doesn't mean that the job gets short shrift. We have regular exchanges and use the time to watch games - in the stadium or on video. But of course it's different when you have training every day as a coach or sports director, or like now the end of the transfer season. Those are things I don't miss at the moment, I'll say that honestly.

STANDARD: There's a saying that you learn more from defeats than from victories. Is that true?

Rangnick: I don't think so. As a coach or sports director, it's about being able to develop things, and also to minimize the coincidence factor as much as possible. You have to develop a team in a direction where you can control the game and play a certain type of soccer to create more chances than you allow your opponents. I didn't need six months at Manchester United to do that. It was already clear to me after two weeks where the problems were, what needed to be done to fix them - but the question is whether you have the opportunity to change these things.

STANDARD: If Cristiano Ronaldo were an Austrian, would you call him up?

Rangnick: He is not an Austrian.

STANDARD: There has been a lot of talk in Austria in recent years about a golden generation. Do you see it that way as well?

Rangnick: The future will show that. A golden generation is one that also plays a role in major tournaments. In Belgium, people have been talking about a golden generation for ten years, but they haven't won anything yet.

STANDARD: Do you see, at least on paper, a team that would be capable of much higher things?

Rangnick: There are parts of the team where Austria has above-average players. We have enough good players in the central defensive area, and I also see players with international caliber in central midfield. But there are also positions, such as the full-backs, where we are not so well-staffed.

STANDARD: You recently described Konrad Laimer as the best ball-striker in the world.

Rangnick: I still think so. I even see him ahead of N'Golo Kanté at the moment. But he's a central midfielder, an eighth. I don't see him so much as a six, but as a player who then gains value when you have those switching moments. The preparation for the goal against France was a prime example.

STANDARD: Can you understand the reasons for Martin Hinteregger's resignation?

Rangnick: If a player ends his career at 29 when his club is playing in the Champions League for the first time, then that will have its reasons. We have to respect them. I had an exchange with Martin, and it's crucial that he feels comfortable with the decision. That seems to be the case.

STANDARD: Is there such a thing as perfect soccer, the perfect soccer player?

Rangnick: Football continues to develop, players too. It's the same with a national team: What matters is how players are in shape at the moment of the competition. When the Euro kicks off, it doesn't matter what happened two years ago. You have to develop a tournament team that works. At the 2014 World Cup, Germany became world champions with four center backs in the back four.
 

Tigersam

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The collapse last season comes down to poor management. Ole should have been sacked at the end of the prior season. We should have sold Pogba. We should not have extended Mata’s contract. We should not have brought in Ronaldo, even if that meant him going to City…whom I doubt actually wanted him.

How this relates to Ralf is that there would have been no need for an interim manager had Ole been sacked at the of the prior season. But as it happened we needed an interim manager Ralf was a sensible choice although at the time I argued for Conte. Conte is flying high now with Spurs but one can reasonably argue that it was a better move to wait until May to appoint ten Hag.
Conte wouldn't come to United though because he wanted more control than a United Manager is allowed what with like the 3 levels of control above him.

I think it's on the manager that we lost four nil to brentford. we have better players than them. That is all I'm saying. If the players weren't motivated that is on the manager who motivates them. They can be motivated : see Liverpool and our team that finished second
To be fair, he got the players in after Brentford for a 13km run and he also did it himself, apparently the players were impressed and we saw the results against Liverpool and Southampton.

I like your new manager and I think he will do well assuming he doesn't get lead astray by the money people insisting Ronaldo plays and stuff like that.

On the radio earlier (Radio 5) there were saying some interesting and positive things about the assistant coach Mitchell van der Gaag who can speak six languages, that's got to be handy at a club like United.
 

stevoc

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This is so unfair to hide it behind ETH. ETH didn't hire him or ask for a consultant. Ralf was never there for him or vice versa. He was there for Murtough who seems to have turned ETH into a consultant and manager rolled in one.

I'd even consider a motion to rereview his stint as manager from being a disaster to just being vaguely underwhelming. There's no proper measure of his tenure now that we've confirmed the squad really are this garbage. I mean ETH after several signings and a preseason lost his first 2 games and got trashed by Brentford. Is having to concede the midfield battle to the likes of southampton because the team lacks so much.
I wish it had only been vaguely underwhelming instead of the absolute clusterfeck that it was.

You can apportion the blame however you like for that clusterfeck but his time as manager coincided with one of the worst runs of form in the last 40 years for United.
 

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What about Ole before him, the minute ole stopped trying to counter and actually get this team to play like utd instead of tottenham we got taken apart or was that on ralf too, how about eth's start where him trying to get this team to play progressive football saw him beaten by brentford and brighton, was that rangnick's fault aswell? This insistence that its not the players but the manager is why we are on our 4th manager since mourinho and we still look hopeless.
Why is this false statements kept appearing forever on this forum, Ole’s team only plays counter attack?!
It’s like you guys didn’t watch our games at all.
 

Asger

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So far, all of the great insights he's offered have been incredibly obvious things.
For us fans yes. But not obvious for former managers and ETH wanted to give them last chance! Thank god we had a bad start!
 

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That last one sounds like something from the Ron Atkinson commentary hall of fame. “You know Jim, the manager will be telling them at half time, if you score more goals than the opposition, you’re in with a chance of winning this. And that’s what they should do Jim. If they score more than they concede, they might just go on to get a result.”

I know he’s (Rangnick) the professor of football blah blah, and actually a very smart guy. It just sounded too simplistic in that context.
 

lex talionis

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Conte wouldn't come to United though because he wanted more control than a United Manager is allowed what with like the 3 levels of control above him.
A predicament, I admit. But I wonder if the Glazers feel like they are finally in good hands with the executive management team above ETH. Maybe, but the jury is out on that.
 

Tigersam

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A predicament, I admit. But I wonder if the Glazers feel like they are finally in good hands with the executive management team above ETH. Maybe, but the jury is out on that.
I don't think "....the Glazers feel like they are finally in good hands with the executive management team above ETH". Exhibit A: 4 weeks ago it was revealed that a 'think tank' comprising David Gill, Alex Ferguson and Bryan Robson had been set up.

I rest my case.
 
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