MyOnlySolskjaer
Creator of Player Performance threads
Spurs.
This is as good a breakdown as any of the biggest clubs in the world taking current events into account. In these social media driven times though, things can change in a drop of a hat. A short period of success or player with a huge social media following can catapult a club upwards very quickly.
Liverpool could break into those top 5 with a PL win and their new shirt deal.
Yeah. My dad lived at Arab ages ago, they only air Real and Barca matches.
It's harder towatch BPL there due to BPL being expensive rights.
They wear Madrid and Barca jerseys daily.
Mind you they only know the word Madrid, Barca, Messi, Ronaldo, Zidane, Luiz Ronaldo, Figo.
They are like apple there. I said genuine fans, fans who followed the club because of the history, appeal and success. Not because of the players .
Up until 2009, Barcelona were not even in the top three. 4 years of the most dominant team on the planet and 1 player doesn't suddenly elevate them to be above United and Bayern. If anything, they're the Liverpool of the 70's and 80's and will probably struggle to replicate their success once mighty mouse fizzles out.
That's a pretty silly view, no offense. I've lived in UAE as a kid. Yeah those clubs are like Apple but do you think Man United is any different?
I have no shame in accepting I started supporting United due to players like Beckham and Giggs since I liked their style. The rest just followed. Does that make me a plastic fan now?
I'm sorry, as a newb I just wanna ask... What exactly did Arsenal do to climb above Ajax and some other clubs?
1. Real Madrid
2. Man United
3. Barcelona
4. Liverpool
5. Juventus
6. Bayern Munich
7. River Plate
8. Chelsea
9. Internazionale
10. Man City
honourable mentions for ac milan, ajax, benfica, flamengo, boca who are a bit behind these days
Oh sure, either side of their combined 50 years is just pure mediocrity.I agree with this. It's wrong to put us above the likes of Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern Munich & Juventus as we're nowhere near as ambitious as any of those clubs.
The club fluked itself onto two fiercely ambitious and talented men like Alex Ferguson & Matt Busby who took us for the ride. Either side of both of them, it's just pure mediocrity.
Man City are a tiny club.
“Biggest” means taking everything into consideration. Size of fanbase, trophies won, history, ability to attract world class players, etc...
I agree with this. It's wrong to put us above the likes of Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern Munich & Juventus as we're nowhere near as ambitious as any of those clubs.
The club fluked itself onto two fiercely ambitious and talented men like Alex Ferguson & Matt Busby who took us for the ride. Either side of both of them, it's just pure mediocrity.
You need to quantify that in some way before making a top 10 list, based on those parameters. Otherwise, it is just very very subjective depending on the bubble you are living in.
For example, one way to understand fanbases, especially in the modern era, is to look at their following on social media, which is an essential parameter for publicity and commercial deals. This is in my view the most important parameter and everything else just contributes to this one. A good example is Ajax in the past and AC Milan more recently.
http://digitale-sport-medien.com/gdfb19/
<< I can't post images yet (1 like short, wink! wink!), so maybe someone can post the top 15 chart from this website >>
Yes you can. Liar.
Trophies and History kind of goes hand in hand, but the catch is to differentiate between old and new success. If enough time passes by and a club isn't successful, it will be forgotten and that directly will affect like a domino effect: the fan base -> the sponsorship deals -> big player transfers.
So, a top 10, is pretty damn clear if you look at that chart (it is from January 2019). And those numbers are always shifting, based on performances, on the emergence of new stars, the strength of leagues, etc.
If the PL clubs were to challenge the top 2 soon, we kind of need MU to be performing again because I am sure that part of Chelsea's impressive following was achieved when competing against a peak Manchester United in PL and also against a peak Barcelona in CL.
Also, as a Chelsea fan, I am feeling very optimistic. We entered a new era and if we can achieve success while reinventing ourselves, we will only grow. And I really hope that MU can be back sooner rather than later.
Some silly statements in here. Barca was only good for a few years and that shouldn't elevate them above United and Bayern? Come on. Ever since they signed Ronaldinho they were regarded as the best team in the world and had maybe two or three bad seasons ever since and none of them were in direct succession. Historically, the club is also much greater than they're credited for in here. It's almost ridiculous how many great players they had across their history. Messi, Ronaldinho, Romario, Ronaldo, Laudrup, Maradona, Cruyff just to name the greatest stars. Madrid aside, no club comes even close to this. Is there any other team which has won as many Balon D'Ors as Barca?
And even better: How can you place United as second but don't even name Milan? I know this is a United forum but come on.
I also think if we take everything into consideration, recency is an extremely important argument. I have a hard time positioning United, Milan, etc. above City or PSG given the mess that they currently are. And this is not just a momentary situation. United hasn't been good for many seasons now and looks like it's caught in a downward spiral, the same goes for Milan. People should stop living in the past. For me:
1. Tier: Real, Barca
2. Tier: Bayern, Juventus, Liverpool
3. Tier: City, PSG
4. Tier: United, Chelsea, Arsenal, Atletico, Inter
5. Tier: Tottenham, Dortmund, Napoli, Milan
Do you think that Corinthians are close to being the 15th most supported club in the world? What this picture tells me is that certain parts of the world are more likely to like and follow stuff on social media than others.You need to quantify that in some way before making a top 10 list, based on those parameters. Otherwise, it is just very very subjective depending on the bubble you are living in.
For example, one way to understand fanbases, especially in the modern era, is to look at their following on social media, which is an essential parameter for publicity and commercial deals. This is in my view the most important parameter and everything else just contributes to this one. A good example is Ajax in the past and AC Milan more recently.
http://digitale-sport-medien.com/gdfb19/
<< I can't post images yet (1 like short, wink! wink!), so maybe someone can post the top 15 chart from this website >>
Yes you can. Liar.
Trophies and History kind of goes hand in hand, but the catch is to differentiate between old and new success. If enough time passes by and a club isn't successful, it will be forgotten and that directly will affect like a domino effect: the fan base -> the sponsorship deals -> big player transfers.
So, a top 10, is pretty damn clear if you look at that chart (it is from January 2019). And those numbers are always shifting, based on performances, on the emergence of new stars, the strength of leagues, etc.
If the PL clubs were to challenge the top 2 soon, we kind of need MU to be performing again because I am sure that part of Chelsea's impressive following was achieved when competing against a peak Manchester United in PL and also against a peak Barcelona in CL.
Also, as a Chelsea fan, I am feeling very optimistic. We entered a new era and if we can achieve success while reinventing ourselves, we will only grow. And I really hope that MU can be back sooner rather than later.
We are the biggest club in the world. I’m bias and delusional but I love it
1. Real Madrid
2. Man United
3. Barcelona
4. Liverpool
5. Juventus
6. Bayern Munich
7. River Plate
8. Chelsea
9. Internazionale
10. Man City
honourable mentions for ac milan, ajax, benfica, flamengo, boca who are a bit behind these days
Man United are behind too. We may be approaching Milan levels in the next 4-5 seasons.
Do you think that Corinthians are close to being the 15th most supported club in the world? What this picture tells me is that certain parts of the world are more likely to like and follow stuff on social media than others.
I've never followed United on any social media. I don't know many people that do because following a club is asking for clutter on your feed.
This also doesn't take into consideration how many accounts follow multiple clubs. It also doesn't translate into revenue for the clubs in terms of merchandise, ticket sales etc.
Very good list and rating system, though I would change the fanbase of City/PSG to 7 (at most).In terms of prestigious/current standing/wealth/fansbase:
(Prestigiuos>current=wealth=fanbase)
1. Real (10/8/10/10) - 33 league 13 CL
2. Barca (9/9/10/10) - 26 league 5 CL
3. Liverpool (9/10/9/9) - 18 league 6 CL
4. Juventus (9/9/9/9) - 35 league 2 CL
5. Bayern (9/9/9/9) - 29 league 5 CL
6. Man Utd (9/5/10/10) - 20 league 3 CL
7. Ajax (9/8/6/6) - 34 league 4 CL
8. Milan (9/5/5/8) - 18 league 7 CL
9. Inter (8/7/7/7) - 18 league 3 CL
10. Benfica (8/6/6/5) - 37 league 2 CL
Other clubs not included because of lack of prestigious but worthy of mention because of current standing/wealth/fanbase:
City (5/10/10/9) - 6 league
PSG (5/9/10/9) - 8 league
Being 4 times European champions, and having some of the greatest players in the history of the game like Cruyff or Van Basten, for a starter.Shouldn't the question be what did Ajax do to climb above Arsenal (if that's what you're suggesting)
Being 4 times European champions, and having some of the greatest players in the history of the game like Cruyff or Van Basten, for a starter.
You're going to make many friends here.Some silly statements in here. Barca was only good for a few years and that shouldn't elevate them above United and Bayern? Come on. Ever since they signed Ronaldinho they were regarded as the best team in the world and had maybe two or three bad seasons ever since and none of them were in direct succession. Historically, the club is also much greater than they're credited for in here. It's almost ridiculous how many great players they had across their history. Messi, Ronaldinho, Romario, Ronaldo, Laudrup, Maradona, Cruyff just to name the greatest stars. Madrid aside, no club comes even close to this. Is there any other team which has won as many Balon D'Ors as Barca?
And even better: How can you place United as second but don't even name Milan? I know this is a United forum but come on.
I also think if we take everything into consideration, recency is an extremely important argument. I have a hard time positioning United, Milan, etc. above City or PSG given the mess that they currently are. And this is not just a momentary situation. United hasn't been good for many seasons now and looks like it's caught in a downward spiral, the same goes for Milan. People should stop living in the past. For me:
1. Tier: Real, Barca
2. Tier: Bayern, Juventus, Liverpool
3. Tier: City, PSG
4. Tier: United, Chelsea, Arsenal, Atletico, Inter
5. Tier: Tottenham, Dortmund, Napoli, Milan
When is the last timedArsenal did something relevant? We are comparing them with Arsenal, a club that hasn't won a big title since 2004 and has not reached UCL semis since 2009. A club whom has never had a Ballon D'or winner playing for them (let alone winning it while playing for them). Sure, they are richer than Ajax (by virtue of being in England), but history-wise, Ajax are significantly bigger than them, and currently they are better.And when did that all happen?
In the 90s players didn’t really dream of playing for them. The best players in Serie A wanted to join United it was our strict wage structure that prevented the best players in the world such as Batistuta, Kluivert, etc from joining us.Real Madrid have been the undisputed #1 greatest/biggest club in the world for decades but I think Barcelona have equaled us or slowly pulled ahead by a slight margin over the last 10 years because of their continued success on the pitch (also in terms of marketing as well as the growth of their brand with Messi at the forefront). United traditionally had a lot of supporters in developing nations and former colonies because of the wide influence of the English language/media but Barcelona have covered a lot of ground in recent years among younger supporters (who support individuals and then the team they play for) while maintaining their advantage in South and Central America, we had some tremendous players over the years but their contingent is almost incomparable: Kubala, Suárez Sr., Czibor, Kocsis, Cruyff, Neeskens, Maradona, Schuster, Laudrup, Koeman, Stoichkov, Romário, Fenômeno, Rivaldo, Ronaldinho, Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Neymar, Suárez Sr. and so forth, their infrastructure has traditionally been one the the most robust with Camp Nou and the training ground, La Masia is also one of the best academies if not the absolute best, 5 European Cup titles by now and their revenues are also consistently in the Top 3 of the Deloitte Money League (from borderline Top 10 in the late '90s and early 2000s where they flirted with decline and bankruptcy at their lowest point). If I had to divide the clubs in broad tiers because of overall history rather than just the short term recency bias view where a club like Milan has plummeted to great depths, I'd probably go with...
South America:
- Real Madrid
- Barcelona, Manchester United
- AC Milan, Bayern München, Liverpool, Juventus
- Internazionale
- Ajax
- Chelsea, Arsenal
- Celtic, Benfica — both could be higher but their domestic leagues are weak.
- River Plate, Peñarol, Boca Juniors
- Nacional, Sao Poalo, Flamengo, Santos, Independiente
When is the last timedArsenal did something relevant? We are comparing them with Arsenal, a club that hasn't won a big title since 2004 and has not reached UCL semis since 2009. A club whom has never had a Ballon D'or winner playing for them (let alone winning it while playing for them). Sure, they are richer than Ajax (by virtue of being in England), but history-wise, Ajax are significantly bigger than them, and currently they are better.
If Arsenal is bigger than Ajax, then by the same logic, City and PSG are bigger than United.
Your logic seems to be limited to historic achievements, current wealth and or ability on the pitch (both of which are actually massively irrelevant). What about in a thread asking who's the bigger club how about you look at how many actual supporters these clubs have, still think Ajax are comparable with Arsenal now?
I'm not sure it does. The article you linked even said that the club barely registers outside Latin America yet they manage to be the 15th most popular club in the world? The social media presence on that list is heavily dictated by Latin America. These figures don't line up with TV figures. PL is the most watched league by far and the correlation between people watching the league on TV, attending games doesn't line up with social media likes. And you absolutely have to take into account how popular each social media platform is per country. Brazil is a huge country and it's the country that has the 6th highest percentage of users. Brazil is 2nd in terms of Instagram users and 4th for Facebook. Of course those numbers add up. Turkey is 5th on Twitter, 6th on Instagram and 10th on Facebook and look, Galatasaray is on the list of top 15 clubs. Spain and Italy don't register on the top 10 in any of the lists, Germany and UK only some.You just present some exceptions, but the bigger picture stands.
But your point on Corinthians, just underlines the fact that you and also many others, just live in a bubble. It is just how it is, but reality often is different.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/ricard...e-soccer-team-outside-of-europe/#4690677f2489
Corinthians is the most valuable football club outside Europe, with a great following. Their problem is the league strength, they would compete in a different CL format in my opinion.
If you add OM there then Porto or Benfica belong there as they are bigger clubs.1. Real Madrid
2. Manchester United
3. Barcelona
4. Bayern Munich
5. Liverpool
6. Juventus
7. AC Milan
8. Inter Milan
9. Ajax
10. Marseille
Pretty much your list minus arsenal and adding in marseille