Rank the midfields: United v Arsenal v Liverpool

sullydnl

Ross Kemp's caf ID
Joined
Sep 13, 2012
Messages
34,063
Three teams, all looking to (primarily) set up in the same shape this season with a #6 and two advanced #8s. So which of the on-paper first choice midfields are strongest/weakest?

United: Casemiro, Bruno, Mount.

Arsenal: Rice, Odegaard, Havertz.

Liverpool: Caicedo, Mac Allister, Szoboszlai.
 

sullydnl

Ross Kemp's caf ID
Joined
Sep 13, 2012
Messages
34,063
I think all 3 are a similar quality.
Aye. Rather than quality the key difference in the long run is probably the age profile.

United: 31, 28, 24

Arsenal: 24, 24, 24

Liverpool: 21, 24, 22
 

ItzdoctorZ

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Sep 1, 2017
Messages
17
1. United

2. Liverpool/Arsenal

But Liverpool don't have Caceido yet so we'll see..
 

Suedesi

Full Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2001
Messages
23,914
Location
New York City
Liverpool have a brand new midfield. Should be better than Fabinho, Henderson, Milner or whoever the fck they played
 

Dancfc

Full Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2016
Messages
7,444
Supports
Chelsea
Out of the three I can only see Liverpool's working in big games.

I would be delighted if we faced either of those midfields of Arsenal and United. For Arsenal against any half decent opponent Partey should be in the deeper role with Rice on the sides and Havertz in the front 3 (if atall) while United should play a more defensive minded player next to Casemiro with Mount of the right of the 4231.
 

Skills

Snitch
Joined
Jan 17, 2012
Messages
42,284
Anfield will be another massive shitshow this season, if we turn up with that midfield 3.
 

Kramer

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jul 30, 2019
Messages
361
Out of the three I can only see Liverpool's working in big games.

I would be delighted if we faced either of those midfields of Arsenal and United. For Arsenal against any half decent opponent Partey should be in the deeper role with Rice on the sides and Havertz in the front 3 (if atall) while United should play a more defensive minded player next to Casemiro with Mount of the right of the 4231.
I don’t think we will see this mid field 3 in the big games for United. We are going after a defensive minded mid field player (likely Amrabat). Think ETH will play

Casemiro-Amrabat in the double pivot. And Bruno and Mount (left sided attacker) in the big games.
 

OverratedOpinion

Full Member
Joined
Sep 4, 2017
Messages
6,818
Anfield will be another massive shitshow this season, if we turn up with that midfield 3.
I wouldn't be surprised to see us eventually convert to using a "box midfield" in games like those.

Casemiro, Amrabat and Bruno with Mount tucking in from wide right. Hojlund and Rashford moving to a 2 man strike force when out of possession.

I really can't see that being steamrolled personally.
 

Powderfinger

Full Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2015
Messages
2,326
Supports
Arsenal
Out of the three I can only see Liverpool's working in big games.

I would be delighted if we faced either of those midfields of Arsenal and United. For Arsenal against any half decent opponent Partey should be in the deeper role with Rice on the sides and Havertz in the front 3 (if atall) while United should play a more defensive minded player next to Casemiro with Mount of the right of the 4231.
I think Partey will start a lot of matches for Arsenal and it’ll be more a matter of picking three from Rice, Odegaard, Havertz, and Partey (assuming all are available) based on the opponent and tactical plan.

I expect us to play exactly as you say in the big games, with Partey, Rice, and Odegaard in midfield and picking three out of Martinelli, Jesus, Saka, and Havertz up front.
 

bosnian_red

Worst scout to ever exist
Joined
Aug 13, 2011
Messages
58,413
Location
Canada
Ours is at the highest current level but casemiro and Bruno much older. Liverpool's is a very nice balance IMO and good ages. Arsenal's needs a deeper player rather than Havertz who doesn't balance it well.
 

awop

Odds winner of 'Odds or Evens 2022/2023'
Newbie
Joined
Sep 28, 2010
Messages
4,337
Location
Paris
Supports
Arsenal
Having 4 quality options makes Arsenal's more flexible. I think Partey-Rice will play the majority of the big games and Havertz will rotate in against weaker opposition.
Arsenal and Liverpool will need a few games to figure it out whereas United's should be good to go.
 

roonster09

FA Cup Predictions 2023/2024 winner
Scout
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
37,008
Having 4 quality options makes Arsenal's more flexible. I think Partey-Rice will play the majority of the big games and Havertz will rotate in against weaker opposition.
Arsenal and Liverpool will need a few games to figure it out whereas United's should be good to go.
It's a stretch to call Havertz as quality option.
 

Zagoon

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jul 20, 2022
Messages
172
Supports
Arsenal
Arsenal’s best midfield three is Rice-Partey-Odegaard.

The other midfield combinations come in based on game requirements for Arsenal. So Haverz, Trossard, Smith Rowe, Vieira come in as a third midfielder depending on tactical changes. And that is superb options to have in our squad so very happy with them.

Comparing it to Liverpool’s best (Mac Allister-Caicedo-Szobozlai), and United’s best (Mount-Casemiro-Bruno), I’d say….

1. Liverpool
2. Arsenal
3. United

Liverpool vs Arsenal is close though… could go either way, but I really like Caicedo at six right now.
 
Last edited:

awop

Odds winner of 'Odds or Evens 2022/2023'
Newbie
Joined
Sep 28, 2010
Messages
4,337
Location
Paris
Supports
Arsenal
It's a stretch to call Havertz as quality option.
Let's just say i prefer to have Havertz rather than Eriksen, VanDeBeek, Jones, Eliott or what's left of Thiago.
 

amolbhatia50k

Sneaky bum time - Vaccination status: dozed off
Joined
Nov 8, 2002
Messages
96,064
Location
india
Arsenals. Not because of the midfielders per say but the way the team’s style and cohesion have come together. I mean I certainly wouldn’t have Havertz in any ideal 3 but their 11 has come together this elevating each individual part.

Otherwise I’d pick ours over Liverpool now but theirs may eventually be better in 2 years time - by when hopefully we’ve added more.
 

roonster09

FA Cup Predictions 2023/2024 winner
Scout
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
37,008
Let's just say i prefer to have Havertz rather than Eriksen, VanDeBeek, Jones, Eliott or what's left of Thiago.
Yeah, still doesn't make him a quality option.
 

RedRonaldo

Wishes to be oppressed.
Joined
Aug 17, 2003
Messages
18,996
I feel Arsenal is stronger, if including Partey. They look more balance as a team in midfield.

Our individuals looks stronger, but not sure the overall balance of our team play is up to same level yet.

Liverpool one is interesting, but no idea how well they would work out together, it’s basically their first season at Liverpool.
 

Borys

Statistics Wizard
Joined
May 10, 2013
Messages
9,201
Location
Bielsko Biala, Poland
Arsenal is very balanced and in general quite synced as they are only replacing Partey with Rice. Top.
Liverpool seems to have improved massively compared to last season, on paper they look strong.
United - so far this experiment doesn't look promising.
 

groovyalbert

it's a mute point
Joined
Feb 14, 2013
Messages
9,783
Location
London
Arsenal's looks infinitely better with Partey in it, but guess that doesn't fit the same setup as the others.

Based on ceiling, Liverpool's has the most potential and ours should be the most dominant.

If I had to choose one for this season, I'd probably still go with Liverpool unfortunately.
 

Leftback99

Might have a bedwetting fetish.
Joined
Jan 11, 2015
Messages
14,844
It depends on Casemiro, if he keeps declining like late last season then we're going to be struggling. I wanted Caicedo or Rice here this summer.
 

Fortitude

TV/Monitor Expert
Scout
Joined
Jul 10, 2004
Messages
23,432
Location
Inside right
As of right now, United's has it all to prove. Our own fans have massive doubts about Mount as a midfielder, let alone one with so much riding on what he can or will contribute to the team. There's also massive question marks on whether those two "8's" won't leave Casemiro massively exposed with far too much space to cover by himself. Massive.

Arsenal's is the most proven in that they can drop in last season's midfield if this one isn't working. They can also make a very difficult unit to break down via Partey and Rice with Odegaard ahead of them.

The unknown element with Liverpool is Szoboszlai. They have a tried and tested pairing outside of him, one we know works and has great synergy and understanding. Liverpool are one component proving itself in the league away from being the most natural of the 3 on paper, for my money.

We have by far the most to prove to even believe that will be our midfield once the dust settles. Come November, we'll have a much clearer picture of what is and is not working for each team.
 

roonster09

FA Cup Predictions 2023/2024 winner
Scout
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
37,008
As of right now, United's has it all to prove. Our own fans have massive doubts about Mount as a midfielder, let alone one with so much riding on what he can or will contribute to the team. There's also massive question marks on whether those two "8's" won't leave Casemiro massively exposed with far too much space to cover by himself. Massive.

Arsenal's is the most proven in that they can drop in last season's midfield if this one isn't working. They can also make a very difficult unit to break down via Partey and Rice with Odegaard ahead of them.

The unknown element with Liverpool is Szoboszlai. They have a tried and tested pairing outside of him, one we know works and has great synergy and understanding. Liverpool are one component proving itself in the league away from being the most natural of the 3 on paper, for my money.

We have by far the most to prove to even believe that will be our midfield once the dust settles. Come November, we'll have a much clearer picture of what is and is not working for each team.
Liverpool doesn't have tired and tested pair. Their set up had midfielders who were strong defensively which helped their FBs to bomb forward and remain defensively good, now they are adding 2 attack oriented midfielders with one defensive one. So how that will have an impact on the overall team is something that we have to wait and see.

Likewise, we played similar midfield last season but instead of Eriksen we have added Mount, player who is more mobile and has better work rate.

Arsenal is stable one as long as it's not Havertz in the midfield.
 

kafta

Perpetual Under 11's Team Player
Joined
Sep 29, 2004
Messages
5,637
Location
Beirut
Liverpool signing Caicedo puts them top, on paper.

Then Arsenal are a close second, and us a bit far away at third.

We can't play that midfield in big games, the other two are just so balanced.
 

saivet

Full Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2013
Messages
25,618
On paper Liverpool's has the best balance. It brand new but Caicedo and MacAllister played together last season.

I think the midfield trios for Arsenal and United would struggle in in big games (don't think we'll see them away from home or vs City). Arsenal's has less defensive qualities but I think their midfield is better equipped to keep the ball than ours.

Switch Partey in for Havertz and those defensive concerns are gone. We currently don't have anyone as good to step in so I'd have us bottom.
 

Superden

Full Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2013
Messages
2,148
Some of the weird bias in here is off the scale.

Casemiero right now is a level above any other DM.

Partey had his poorest season for some time, and still might be sold.

Bruno by eyes and by stats is one of the most creative and effective midfielders ever in the prem.

Slozobol is a complete unknown when it comes to prem level.

You'd have thought socrates and zico have rocked up at anfeld the way some are going on...
 

Fortitude

TV/Monitor Expert
Scout
Joined
Jul 10, 2004
Messages
23,432
Location
Inside right
Liverpool doesn't have tired and tested pair. Their set up had midfielders who were strong defensively which helped their FBs to bomb forward and remain defensively good, now they are adding 2 attack oriented midfielders with one defensive one. So how that will have an impact on the overall team is something that we have to wait and see.

Likewise, we played similar midfield last season but instead of Eriksen we have added Mount, player who is more mobile and has better work rate.

Arsenal is stable one as long as it's not Havertz in the midfield.
Tried and tested: synergy, understanding, chemistry - we know what they look like together. Of course the set ups are different, but those two will be the least of the concerns, and because of that understanding, they'll more likely revert to type between themselves in times of duress, which is a good thing for Liverpool whilst they find themselves as a team with a new engine in it.

Our midfield wasn't good last season, either, so it's not a bar that we should particularly triumphant about overcoming. We have a lot to do to prove this setup is effective and oppressive enough to stick with and not give Casemiro an early retirement.
 

roonster09

FA Cup Predictions 2023/2024 winner
Scout
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
37,008
Tried and tested: synergy, understanding, chemistry - we know what they look like together. Of course the set ups are different, but those two will be the least of the concerns, and because of that understanding, they'll more likely revert to type between themselves in times of duress, which is a good thing for Liverpool whilst they find themselves as a team with a new engine in it.

Our midfield wasn't good last season, either, so it's not a bar that we should particularly triumphant about overcoming. We have a lot to do to prove this setup is effective and oppressive enough to stick with and not give Casemiro an early retirement.
But those 2 players don't exist as separate entity, it's all part of the team. How the defensive compromise will have an impact on TAA or VVD is something we don't know.

Fabinho, Henderson, Milner/Wijinaldum midfield is as blunt as it comes when it comes to creativity but Liverpool as a team never struggled to score goals because they complimented other players so well which provided great base for their attackers and FBs. Likewise we are yet to see how playing 2 attack oriented players in the midfield will have an impact on the rest of the team.

Yes, our midfield wasn't great last season and one of the reason was lack of legs. something we have added this season. It's not great even now as we don't know how the addition of one more hard working player will work out but it's improvement on last season on paper.
 

Steve 007

Full Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2019
Messages
649
Location
London
We are in a competitive PL.

Everyone has massively improved, Utd, City, Arsenal, Liverpool. No matter what happens City cannot just run away with it and dominate all these teams anymore. Points will be dropped by all these teams against each other.
The bottom line is that we now have an excellent first choice midfield and if we also get Amrabat we could play two enforcers against City/ Arsenal/ Pool and dominate. With Erickson we have great depth too.

Anyone that isn’t happy with our midfield just remember watching McT, Fred, Perriera. We are on the up.
 

Fortitude

TV/Monitor Expert
Scout
Joined
Jul 10, 2004
Messages
23,432
Location
Inside right
But those 2 players don't exist as separate entity, it's all part of the team. How the defensive compromise will have an impact on TAA or VVD is something we don't know.

Fabinho, Henderson, Milner/Wijinaldum midfield is as blunt as it comes when it comes to creativity but Liverpool as a team never struggled to score goals because they complimented other players so well which provided great base for their attackers and FBs. Likewise we are yet to see how playing 2 attack oriented players in the midfield will have an impact on the rest of the team.

Yes, our midfield wasn't great last season and one of the reason was lack of legs. something we have added this season. It's not great even now as we don't know how the addition of one more hard working player will work out but it's improvement on last season on paper.
Outside of Arsenal's old guard, we don't know how any of these midfields will do - United's might gel and be amazing; Liverpool's might splutter - but theoretically, and based on what's already known of these players and these teams, there's a lot more question marks over us than either of the other two. Our backline also has to learn how to invert and support Casemiro, asap! Before we kill him with all the extra load if those two ahea of him are as porous as I expect them to be.

Liverpool are a considerably better front foot team as a unit than us currently and we're working hard to become verticality monsters ourselves, but in principle, they have more players who know what to do and when to do it to ensure the oppressive states than we do, so the element of catch up to make our unit operate like an oppressive team does, is there, which is where more questions are on our shoulders than theirs in questioning theoretical effectiveness. For me, I expect theirs to work (outside of the unknown variable in Szoboszlai) whereas I'll need to see ours in action to start to believe in it.

As I said in my OP, we'll see where each midfield is at in November, which will be a fair juncture for the first assessment.
 

Highfather_24

Full Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2014
Messages
2,729
Liverpool>Arsenal>United.

Had Liverpool at 3rd before the Caicedo signing. Completely transforms their midfield, like Casemiro did for us last season.
 

11101

Full Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2014
Messages
21,480
Ours has the best players but i don't think the balance is there.

Liverpool's is balanced but lacking quality. That might actually work out for them.

Arsenal are somewhere in the middle.
 

Highfather_24

Full Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2014
Messages
2,729
Its okay guys, our midfield will be better when we sign Frenkie De Jong next summer. Surely.
 

Pogue Mahone

Swiftie Fan Club President
Joined
Feb 22, 2006
Messages
134,683
Location
"like a man in silk pyjamas shooting pigeons
Three teams, all looking to (primarily) set up in the same shape this season with a #6 and two advanced #8s. So which of the on-paper first choice midfields are strongest/weakest?

United: Casemiro, Bruno, Mount.

Arsenal: Rice, Odegaard, Havertz.

Liverpool: Caicedo, Mac Allister, Szoboszlai.
That isn’t Arsenal’s midfield, is it? Partey, Rice and Odegaard is a much better option, surely? If nothing else it gives them options we’re badly lacking now Fred is gone.

Anyhoo. Ours is probably the worst. Playing Mount out of position is a gamble.