[Borys]

Meh, he might be a bit better than Maguire or Martinez, hasn't been properly tested this season and looked slow in pre season so I'm not surprised he's on the bench. He came on the pitch in second half when the game was over.

He might be a bit better, but it's irrelevant, our problems lie elsewhere. Also, the last time I saw Varane in pre-season he looked very uncomfortable on the ball, so another reason why I think ETH is reluctant to give him a go.

 

[Olecurls99]

Meh, he might be a bit better than Maguire or Martinez, hasn't been properly tested this season and looked slow in pre season so I'm not surprised he's on the bench. He came on the pitch in second half when the game was over.

He might be a bit better, but it's irrelevant, our problems lie elsewhere. Also, the last time I saw Varane in pre-season he looked very uncomfortable on the ball, so another reason why I think ETH is reluctant to give him a go.

Not a bit better. Comfortably better. Way better. Easily better.

In future if he's fit, he plays.

 

[Borys]

Not a bit better. Comfortably better. Way better. Easily better.

In future if he's fit, he plays.

Based on his United days, that's definitely not true. He's been an underwhelming signing and that's not even taking into account how often he gets injured and misses a few games. I do think however him constantly being in "recovery" mode is a bigger issue than the performances itself.

But it's irrelevant, my point is single CB is not solving our defensive issues. We need to look after the midfield first and then give our defensive line a new start.

 

[A-man]

You made me spend 15 minutes to check the stats game by game:

games against Non-big 6 teams without Varane starting since he joined us: 12
goals conceded: 22


Your argument is clearly checkmated.

Since Varane joined us:
We conceded 0.91 goals per game when Varane (22/24 games) is on the field
We conceded 1.47 goals per game when Maguire (47/32 games) is on the field
We conceded 1.69 goals per game when lindelof is on the field (47 goals/28 games)
We conceded 1.00 goals per game when Bailly is on the field (4/4 games)





He is the best CB we have. It is very obvious. As I said many times, the fans and coaches using "tackles per game" "interceptions per game" "clearance per game" to measure how good a CB is are dumb. Many 3rd tier CBs got excellent "tackles per game" "interceptions per game" "clearance per game" while elite CBs like VVD have meh stats

Our CB's pecking order (injury aside) shall be Varane > Martinez/bailly > Maguire > Lindelof

Lindelof is a Championship level defender.

These are school book examples of how to misuse stats. Just as “dumb” as using tackles etc stats. Goals conceded per game does not translate to who is the best defender. Simple as that. You could still argue he is the best defender and I would t disagree, but not because of the stats, but because of his performances.

 

[Olecurls99]

These are school book examples of how to misuse stats. Just as “dumb” as using tackles etc stats. Goals conceded per game does not translate to who is the best defender. Simple as that. You could still argue he is the best defender and I would t disagree, but not because of the stats, but because of his performances.

Over enough games they definitely tell a story. Especially when the difference is as big as shown

 

[A-man]

Over enough games they definitely tell a story. Especially when the difference is as big as shown

Since you remove the whole context there is no story.

I remember some genius who used the same method to declare that Brandon Williams was our best defender a few years ago.

And the difference is not that big considering Varane skipped the big matches and as example never played Liverpool nor City. Varane conceded 1.1 goal per 90 minutes last season. If you remove Liverpool and City also for the other defenders, then their stats would look better and as example Maguire also conceded 1.1 goal per 90.

I think Lindelof was our best defender the first half of the season, then he got worse after his heart problems. The final part of the season Varane was the best, but imo still not good enough for being Premier Leagues highest paid defender. He has a lot more to show but unfortunately he looked poor during the pre season. For the next game I want both Maguire and Martinez out because elf their performances , and replaced by Varane and Lindeof (if they both are fit for 90 min).

I can add that I am a bit disappointed by his first season. Imo he used to be an 8/10 player who was a bit declining, and I expected a 7/10 at United, but we got a 6/10 which is not good value for money.

 

[TOKUGAWA-X]

Varane is so slow and so limited on the ball, no doubt ETH will try to sell him soon.

Varane was good enough for the Ancelotti system wich is based on mid 2000s but to ETHs new, aggresive, ball obssesed ? I dont think so.

 

[Giggsyking]

Really, people arguing if he is our best CB? His name is CL Varane ffs.

 

[Olecurls99]

Since you remove the whole context there is no story.

I remember some genius who used the same method to declare that Brandon Williams was our best defender a few years ago.

And the difference is not that big considering Varane skipped the big matches and as example never played Liverpool nor City. Varane conceded 1.1 goal per 90 minutes last season. If you remove Liverpool and City also for the other defenders, then their stats would look better and as example Maguire also conceded 1.1 goal per 90.

I think Lindelof was our best defender the first half of the season, then he got worse after his heart problems. The final part of the season Varane was the best, but imo still not good enough for being Premier Leagues highest paid defender. He has a lot more to show but unfortunately he looked poor during the pre season. For the next game I want both Maguire and Martinez out because elf their performances , and replaced by Varane and Lindeof (if they both are fit for 90 min).

I can add that I am a bit disappointed by his first season. Imo he used to be an 8/10 player who was a bit declining, and I expected a 7/10 at United, but we got a 6/10 which is not good value for money.

I don't know where you're getting your figures but these are the figures that were quoted above.

PL Games with Varane: 23
Goals conceded: 22
Less than 1 per game

PL Games without Varane: 17
Goals conceded: 41
2.41 goals per game

If you can't admit a humongous discrepancy there then I don't know what to say.

 

[AlexUTD]

I don't know where you're getting your figures but these are the figures that were quoted above.

PL Games with Varane: 23
Goals conceded: 22
Less than 1 per game

PL Games without Varane: 17
Goals conceded: 41
2.41 goals per game

If you can't admit a humongous discrepancy there then I don't know what to say.

Nothing to see here

 

[A-man]

I don't know where you're getting your figures but these are the figures that were quoted above.

PL Games with Varane: 23
Goals conceded: 22
Less than 1 per game

PL Games without Varane: 17
Goals conceded: 41
2.41 goals per game

If you can't admit a humongous discrepancy there then I don't know what to say.

It’s the official stats from last season. We conceded 22 goals with him on the pitch and he played 1829 minutes. That equals to 1.1 goals per 90 minutes.

As shown, the discrepancy comes from the fact that Varane didn’t play the big games which is also where we conceded most goals. If Liverpool and City are removed, Maguire has the same figures.

In the end it should be said that 1.1 goal per 90 is not that amazing. Before Varane arrived, Maguire and Lindelof had 1.1 and 0.9 the 2 seasons before, including the big games.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

It’s unsustainable for him to be fit [always questionable] but on the bench.

 

[Olecurls99]

It’s the official stats from last season. We conceded 22 goals with him on the pitch and he played 1829 minutes. That equals to 1.1 goals per 90 minutes.

As shown, the discrepancy comes from the fact that Varane didn’t play the big games which is also where we conceded most goals. If Liverpool and City are removed, Maguire has the same figures.

In the end it should be said that 1.1 goal per 90 is not that amazing. Before Varane arrived, Maguire and Lindelof had 1.1 and 0.9 the 2 seasons before, including the big games.

Even with the 4 games against the big 2 taken out. It's still twice as bad without him as with him. 26 conceded in 13 (2 per game) .
Imagine what he could do if he was playing in a functioning team. Also I guarantee we wouldn't have been pilloried by as much with him in the starting lineup last year.

 

[charlenefan]

If we get Casemiro I'm ready to get hurt again over Champions League Varane

 

[JeffFromHK]

It’s the official stats from last season. We conceded 22 goals with him on the pitch and he played 1829 minutes. That equals to 1.1 goals per 90 minutes.

As shown, the discrepancy comes from the fact that Varane didn’t play the big games which is also where we conceded most goals. If Liverpool and City are removed, Maguire has the same figures.

In the end it should be said that 1.1 goal per 90 is not that amazing. Before Varane arrived, Maguire and Lindelof had 1.1 and 0.9 the 2 seasons before, including the big games.

Even with the 4 games against the big 2 taken out. It's still twice as bad without him as with him. 26 conceded in 13 (2 per game) .
Imagine what he could do if he was playing in a functioning team. Also I guarantee we wouldn't have been pilloried by as much with him in the starting lineup last year.

A-man still can't explain why we conceded 1.8+ goals per game against non-big6 teams without Varane last year and 0.92 goals per game with Varane

also, see whoscored rating (who combines all sorts of metrics in the game) last year
Varane 6.78
Maguire 6.65
Lindelof 6.50
Bailly 6.28

his performance score is the highest among our CBs (Jones aside, who played 1 game)

All that A-man can only say is "stats is misleading, I can't explain why but he is just bad!"

 

[dinostar77]

Meh, he might be a bit better than Maguire or Martinez, hasn't been properly tested this season and looked slow in pre season so I'm not surprised he's on the bench. He came on the pitch in second half when the game was over.

He might be a bit better, but it's irrelevant, our problems lie elsewhere. Also, the last time I saw Varane in pre-season he looked very uncomfortable on the ball, so another reason why I think ETH is reluctant to give him a go.

Abit better than maguire?

Miles and miles better. Maguire is a joke and not good enough for this club.

 

[Fortitude]

If Casemiro is coming here, Varane has to feature in the backline - they know each other inside out and without needing to second guess habitual tendencies in times of distress. That's the split second between snuffing out danger or inviting it.

The onus is on Varane to get and stay fit, but if he manages to do so, I'd think his position at the back is assured. If Martinez is not being considered for midfield, then that partnership will be the most examined, I would suspect.

 

[Lewnited]

Whatever you say about his performance levels over the last year, his natural game makes him better suited to a pairing with Martinez/Maguire than they are suited to eachother.

Varane is at his best when he's sweeping, partnered with a CB that's comfortable in stepping up and being the aggressor. If he's fully fit he should be one of the first names on the team sheet, with Martinez and Maguire fighting it out for the second spot.

 

[McGrathsipan]

Varane is so slow and so limited on the ball, no doubt ETH will try to sell him soon.

Varane was good enough for the Ancelotti system wich is based on mid 2000s but to ETHs new, aggresive, ball obssesed ? I dont think so.

Is Virgil Van Dyk a pressing machine at liverpool?
No

 

[Olecurls99]

A-man still can't explain why we conceded 1.8+ goals per game against non-big6 teams without Varane last year and 0.92 goals per game with Varane

also, see whoscored rating (who combines all sorts of metrics in the game) last year
Varane 6.78
Maguire 6.65
Lindelof 6.50
Bailly 6.28

his performance score is the highest among our CBs (Jones aside, who played 1 game)

All that A-man can only say is "stats is misleading, I can't explain why but he is just bad!"

I can't stand how this narrative has taken hold that he's been poor. He's clearly our best defender. The injuries haven't been ideal but he has to shift Maguire out of the team as soon as he's ready and every time he's available after that.

 

[Ayoba]

I can't stand how this narrative has taken hold that he's been poor. He's clearly our best defender. The injuries haven't been ideal but he has to shift Maguire out of the team as soon as he's ready and every time he's available after that.

Exactly! I'm quite frankly baffled tbh. He simply needs to start, easily our best defender

 

[Olecurls99]

Exactly! I'm quite frankly baffled tbh. He simply needs to start, easily our best defender

We concede 2.5 times more when he doesn't play.

Yeah but he didn't play against Pool and City

Okay we still concede twice as much excluding those games

I just love Harry Maguire

 

[A-man]

A-man still can't explain why we conceded 1.8+ goals per game against non-big6 teams without Varane last year and 0.92 goals per game with Varane

also, see whoscored rating (who combines all sorts of metrics in the game) last year
Varane 6.78
Maguire 6.65
Lindelof 6.50
Bailly 6.28

his performance score is the highest among our CBs (Jones aside, who played 1 game)

All that A-man can only say is "stats is misleading, I can't explain why but he is just bad!"

I am not saying stats are misleading, but they are misleading some people here who do not know how to work with them and how to evaluate them.

Conceded goals per game does not equal individual performance. Whoscored points are even worse.

I have never said Varane is a bad player, only that his last season was a disappointment to me. Disappointment is always in relation to expectations. I had higher expectations than you had., since I thought higher of him than you did. Since you expected less from him than I did, he managed to meet your expectations, but not mine.

We concede 2.5 times more when he doesn't play.

Yeah but he didn't play against Pool and City

Okay we still concede twice as much excluding those games

I just love Harry Maguire

Repeating a lie doesn't make it true.
If we exclude those games, these are the stats from last season:

Varane 1.1 conceded goal per 90 minutes
Maguire 1.1 conceded goal per 90 minutes
Man utd as a total 1.46 goal/90 min

I have followed Varane his whole career as I follow RM and he was always one of my favorite players. It's the evaluation method I do not agree with.

 

[RepardReece]

We concede 2.5 times more when he doesn't play.

Yeah but he didn't play against Pool and City

Okay we still concede twice as much excluding those games

I just love Harry Maguire

This comment is why I don't understand many comments on this thread. The only issue I have with him is the number of injuries he gets.
It's hard to look great in such a dysfunctional team

 

[11101]

Whatever you say about his performance levels over the last year, his natural game makes him better suited to a pairing with Martinez/Maguire than they are suited to eachother.

Varane is at his best when he's sweeping, partnered with a CB that's comfortable in stepping up and being the aggressor. If he's fully fit he should be one of the first names on the team sheet, with Martinez and Maguire fighting it out for the second spot.

I think Varane and Martinez would be our best pairing, with Lindelof understudy to Varane and Maguire to Martinez.

They will all benefit from Casemiro in front of them if that happens, all except for Maguire who I think could struggle with the required pace of passing.

 

[Olecurls99]

I am not saying stats are misleading, but they are misleading some people here who do not know how to work with them and how to evaluate them.

Conceded goals per game does not equal individual performance. Whoscored points are even worse.

I have never said Varane is a bad player, only that his last season was a disappointment to me. Disappointment is always in relation to expectations. I had higher expectations than you had., since I thought higher of him than you did. Since you expected less from him than I did, he managed to meet your expectations, but not mine.


Repeating a lie doesn't make it true.
If we exclude those games, these are the stats from last season:

Varane 1.1 conceded goal per 90 minutes
Maguire 1.1 conceded goal per 90 minutes
Man utd as a total 1.46 goal/90 min

I have followed Varane his whole career as I follow RM and he was always one of my favorite players. It's the evaluation method I do not agree with.

What's lying about saying we concede twice as many without Varane as with him? Do tell

Also why are we excluding games in the first place? To skew the stats perhaps

 

[Rampant Red Rodriguez]

Varane is our new Wesley Brown.. Our best defender but never fit for long enough.. I hope we sell him on with the other defenders tbh

 

[Thoms]

Him and Martinez should form the back. If only he could stay fit for an entire year.

 

[A-man]

What's lying about saying we concede twice as many without Varane as with him? Do tell

Also why are we excluding games in the first place? To skew the stats perhaps

It was actually you said we conceded double amount of goals without Varane even if we excluded the Liverpool and City games.
" Okay we still concede twice as much excluding those games "
As I showed that was far from correct.
Anyways, I'm out of this pointless discussion. You believe conceded goals is a great way to evaluate a player, and I don't agree. I can live with that.

 

[Olecurls99]

It was actually you said we conceded double amount of goals without Varane even if we excluded the Liverpool and City games.
" Okay we still concede twice as much excluding those games "
As I showed that was far from correct.
Anyways, I'm out of this pointless discussion. You believe conceded goals is a great way to evaluate a player, and I don't agree. I can live with that.

Deary me. We did

Read what I said. 26 conceded in 13 games excluding the ones you wanted.

I think if your team concedes half as much goals every time you play then that is a relevant stat

And it was actually 2.5 if you include Pool and City, which you should, because why the bloody hell shouldn't you.

You shouldn't argue this point because you haven't got a leg to stand on

 

[Lyng]

Deary me. We did

Read what I said. 26 conceded in 13 games excluding the ones you wanted.

I think if your team concedes half as much goals every time you play then that is a relevant stat

And it was actually 2.5 if you include Pool and City, which you should, because why the bloody hell shouldn't you.

You shouldn't argue this point because you haven't got a leg to stand on

Its so weird. People use stats and goals conceded against De Gea (rightfully so) and Lindelöf etc. But as soon as it is used against Harry Maguire there are a million excuses or suddenly we are only supposed to use certain stats.
Varane is our best defender, and its not even close.
The issue is his injuries. Hopefully he can stay fit this season and we would be much better for it.

 

[dinostar77]

Maguire is so slow and so limited on the ball, no doubt ETH will try to sell him soon.

Fixed

 

[Sammy McIlroys fan club]

Its so weird. People use stats and goals conceded against De Gea (rightfully so) and Lindelöf etc. But as soon as it is used against Harry Maguire there are a million excuses or suddenly we are only supposed to use certain stats.
Varane is our best defender, and its not even close.
The issue is his injuries. Hopefully he can stay fit this season and we would be much better for it.

As we are in the Europa league this season I do not want to see Varane, Casemiro or Ronaldo anywhere near it. Save them for the premier league and give them Thursday nights off. United still have a bloated squad of dubious quality, let McTominay, Maguire and Rashford star on a Thursday night.

 

[Lyng]

As we are in the Europa league this season I do not want to see Varane, Casemiro or Ronaldo anywhere near it. Save them for the premier league and give them Thursday nights off. United still have a bloated squad of dubious quality, let McTominay, Maguire and Rashford star on a Thursday night.

Yeah I would do the same to be honest.

 

[AmanNits04]

Casemiro coming as a CDM should definitely help in Elevating his game, Martinez, Varand and Casemiro should be our two Cb and CDM. Dosn't help that our FB are shite though

I am still looking forward to him featuring in as our CB now.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

As we are in the Europa league this season I do not want to see Varane, Casemiro or Ronaldo anywhere near it. Save them for the premier league and give them Thursday nights off. United still have a bloated squad of dubious quality, let McTominay, Maguire and Rashford star on a Thursday night.

Why would we throw away our best chance at champions league qualification and a major trophy? If anything save our best team for those nights.

 

[Sammy McIlroys fan club]

Why would we throw away our best chance at champions league qualification and a major trophy? If anything save our best team for those nights.

Because if we try to get 55-60 games a season out of 30+ players we will end up getting 25 games a season out of them. Concentrate on the Premier league and achieve top 4, its not that big an ask for a club the size of manchester united if they are run properly. One dodgy refereeing decision could see you out of the Europa league, focus on the league and top 4, it is perfectly achievable if the team performs to anywhere near an appropriate standard. Cup runs are a bonus, the league is your bread and butter and we just had our worst league in 30+ years. Standards need raised at this club and it begins in our next league match regardless of the opposition. We won the Europa league under Jose, did that make his period at United a success?

 

[lex talionis]

Varane is our best defender and it's not even close, unless Martinez proves to us otherwise.

 

[Sandikan]

Varane has become one of those defenders that no matter what error he makes, it’ll always get forgotten and swept under the carpet. It was happening to Lindelof for a while

Lindelof?
Every single thing he did wrong was brought to everyone's attention the whole time wasn't it?

 

[Sandikan]

If he doesn’t start v Liverpool instead of Maguire I’d start questioning ETH

He has to start, but it might well be for Martinez having been hooked off at half time last game.