Rojofiam
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But he has been a 64 million striker this season, if you look at his performances.My opinion. You are free to have your own
But he has been a 64 million striker this season, if you look at his performances.My opinion. You are free to have your own
Yeah but we can vary it a bit with them cutting in and him going wide. Ah well. There might be a reason we don't do that.Regarding the first point, I think it’s because you already have Rashford and Garnacho occupying the running into those channels because both have that movement as well. So Hojlund is more of a focal point for them to run off of.
https://www.skysports.com/football/...al-rasmus-hojlund-adapts-at-man-utd-the-radarGreat article on skysports.com by Nick Wright on the lack of service he is receiving.
Performing unbelievably imo for his age and lack of support.
I see those clips as showing he's adapting well to our style in transition, they aren't all really 'hold up play' in my opinion, many are quick exchanges or passes rather than running a channel. taking a long ball and getting it under control, then bringing others into play. Some are, don't get me wrong, and I'm not saying he can't do it but my impressions of him are not of an Ibra type CF.He's definitely not great aerially on long balls but his hold up play is not bad and improving all the time. Of course he's had many loose touches and poor technique resulting in ball losses. However, I would say a good portion of those are where he gets the ball in really bad areas of the pitch with a defender up his back with no time or space for a touch or turn and which was only passed to him due to our poor build up play. Check out this video, which was posted above:
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This is not the type of compilation of a striker, who will just hover around centre backs and look to poach goals. That's far too premature to say and not really based on what we've seen of him so far. He's an all arounder and part of the reason why he hasn't scored many goals or ones like the WH game is because he doesn't get the service. In that video, for every ball he has laid off or set up others, the favour was returned maybe 1 out of 5 times. Hopefully the last two games has shown a change of mentality and the service to him now.
Oh man I disagree with your first paragraph so much. You think people will be happy if we paid 64m for a young talent to just play a game here and there? Fans are impatient, they want instant gratification. Hojlund will be even under more scrutiny and pressure when questions will be asked constantly of why we signed him for so much just to sit on the bench and how he will grow/develop if he keeps playing second fiddle.The issue with Hojlund hasn’t primarily been his fee. It’s that he clearly shouldn’t, yet, be the first choice CF at one of the world’s biggest clubs. If we had purchased a Kane or an Osimhen in the Summer, and Hojlund, then I think everyone would have been happy with his signing, even at the outrageous price we paid.
Anyway, it’s pleasing that he’s started to score goals regularly and his all-round game is improving. If he can score at a 1 in 2 ratio for the rest of the season, and end with about 10 league goals and 18 or so overall (and continue to show development in his overall game), that will be a successful season for him in my view.
Realistically though what would you have expected from either one of those players. They would have been £120m+ type transfers and we don't really create that much, we'd probably be sitting with Kane on like 8 goals and complaining about how we should have signed him 5 years ago and Levy is such a genuis.The issue with Hojlund hasn’t primarily been his fee. It’s that he clearly shouldn’t, yet, be the first choice CF at one of the world’s biggest clubs. If we had purchased a Kane or an Osimhen in the Summer, and Hojlund, then I think everyone would have been happy with his signing, even at the outrageous price we paid.
Anyway, it’s pleasing that he’s started to score goals regularly and his all-round game is improving. If he can score at a 1 in 2 ratio for the rest of the season, and end with about 10 league goals and 18 or so overall (and continue to show development in his overall game), that will be a successful season for him in my view.
Nothing more frustrating than arguing with people last summer that just thought Kane instantly adds 30 goals to our team. Although it’s probably the same group that grumbles about Hojlunds goal tally when he might get a single chance a game (maybe).Realistically though what would you have expected from either one of those players. They would have been £120m+ type transfers and we don't really create that much, we'd probably be sitting with Kane on like 8 goals and complaining about how we should have signed him 5 years ago and Levy is such a genuis.
Your opinionBut he has been a 64 million striker this season, if you look at his performances.
So there two things 1) I would argue the majority of those clips are a variation of hold up play because the ball is played to him and a positive outcome comes out of it. Obviously it's pure highlights so it's not a true representation of his overall success rate on that front. I understand your definition but that's only one part of many things to consider as 'hold up play' imo. 2) The original point was that you said he was more of a poacher/hang around centre back type of player striker. Someone, that involved and fairly technical in the middle of the pitch as shown in the video doesn't usually end up as a penalty box forward.I see those clips as showing he's adapting well to our style in transition, they aren't all really 'hold up play' in my opinion, many are quick exchanges or passes rather than running a channel. taking a long ball and getting it under control, then bringing others into play. Some are, don't get me wrong, and I'm not saying he can't do it but my impressions of him are not of an Ibra type CF.
But how would you describe Ruud? He would still do those kind of things, it’s not like a striker doesn’t get involved at all until the ball goes into the box. But there’s a big difference in the hold up play if someone like Rasmus versus RVP or Berba for exampleSo there two things 1) I would argue the majority of those clips are a variation of hold up play because the ball is played to him and a positive outcome comes out of it. Obviously it's pure highlights so it's not a true representation of his overall success rate on that front. I understand your definition but that's only one part of many things to consider as 'hold up play' imo. 2) The original point was that you said he was more of a poacher/hang around centre back type of player striker. Someone, that involved and fairly technical in the middle of the pitch as shown in the video doesn't usually end up as a penalty box forward.
And I was asking for your opinion but seems like you don't want to share it with meYour opinion
Seems that way. Wonder how many more he'd score if he had someone like De Bruyne feeding him chances.Great article on skysports.com by Nick Wright on the lack of service he is receiving.
Performing unbelievably imo for his age and lack of support.
And I was asking for your opinion but seems like you don't want to share it with me
Hes also not a £64m striker, hopefully he will become one though
My opinion. You are free to have your own
You didn't ask my opinion (which I already gave) you made a statement which was your own opinion.But he has been a 64 million striker this season, if you look at his performances.
What more do you think he could be doing, with the lack of service he's been having? His link up play and passing has also gone up a level in recent games.You didn't ask my opinion (which I already gave) you made a statement which was your own opinion.
Ive already said I didn’t think he was but he may become one
But he has been a 64 million striker this season, if you look at his performances.
He’s the second most expensive CF in the league. The most expensive has double his contribution of goals and assists this season and is himself regarded as a questionable signing at the price paid.And I was asking for your opinion but seems like you don't want to share it with me
Who is a 64m striker though these days? Would it really buy you anyone that’s already top class and relatively young?Hes also not a £64m striker, hopefully he will become one though
I don't think you will find anyone saying he is one of the best strikers in the league at the moment. As you say, we have paid for potential and we can't really tell yet, whether the fee will be justified or not. If he continues his recent form for the rest of the season, I would say it's looking positive.He’s the second most expensive CF in the league. The most expensive has double his contribution of goals and assists this season and is himself regarded as a questionable signing at the price paid.
We have primarily paid for potential but the idea that Hojlund is one of the best strikers in the league currently is just plain silly. He’s a good finisher but his all-round game is quite a long way off where I would hope it will be in 5 years time. Out of curiosity, for which other teams in the league do you think he’d currently be the starting CF, guaranteed to start every game?
And how did that lad do in his first 6 months in a new league/team?He’s the second most expensive CF in the league. The most expensive has double his contribution of goals and assists this season and is himself regarded as a questionable signing at the price paid.
I don't know. Unless you're someone like Haaland, I don't think you're guaranteed to start every game at most clubs.He’s the second most expensive CF in the league. The most expensive has double his contribution of goals and assists this season and is himself regarded as a questionable signing at the price paid.
We have primarily paid for potential but the idea that Hojlund is one of the best strikers in the league currently is just plain silly. He’s a good finisher but his all-round game is quite a long way off where I would hope it will be in 5 years time. Out of curiosity, for which other teams in the league do you think he’d currently be the starting CF, guaranteed to start every game?
I really like Hojlund and think he can become a very good player for us but this is recency bias at its finest.I don't know. Unless you're someone like Haaland, I don't think you're guaranteed to start every game at most clubs.
Arsenal are missing a profile like him, as Jesus is a different type of player (albeit an amazing one). I do think Hojlund is better than Nketiah, and Arteta seems to be reluctant to play Havertz up top from what I've seen. They are targeting Osimhen for a reason, and the Nigerian is a very similar profile to our Dane.
He would start for Spurs and Chelsea, without any doubts. He starts for us without a doubt as well.
Significant game time at Arsenal, Liverpool, Newcastle, Villa, Brentford and Brighton.
I would put him somewhere around Evan Ferguson's level right now, with a similar potential ceiling as well. Also very similar type of players.
Considering their ages, the only striker in the Prem I'd have over him is the obvious pick in Haaland. He's already close to the best strikers in the league and I think he'll be an absolute monster within 2 or 3 years.
I don't think that his price really bothered him at the start as well, you can tell by his CL form, What coincided with his good form is Garnacho moving on the right, and this opened up a lot of space for him, as Rashford got returned to his natural position, and Garnacho is now more inclined to pass, instead of to shot. Plus you can tell that he has become more vocal when he doesn't get the pass. He has always made the runs, even when he wasn't getting the ball.I don't think you will find anyone saying he is one of the best strikers in the league at the moment. As you say, we have paid for potential and we can't really tell yet, whether the fee will be justified or not. If he continues his recent form for the rest of the season, I would say it's looking positive.
I would also not be overly concerned with the price we have paid. It's in the past. After a tough period Højlund seems to have turned a corner, and he doesn't seem to be bothered by his price tag himself.
Is it recency bias if I've been saying this since September? I was 100% sure of his talent after his first 2 or 3 PL games, and his Champions League performances.I really like Hojlund and think he can become a very good player for us but this is recency bias at its finest.
He has been very good in the last few games but if you look back a few weeks ago in this thread some fans were calling us a bad footballer and terrible signing. Admittedly those people were overreacting too much the other way.
Good player : Yes
High Potential : Absolutely
Close to the best strikers in the league : Not at the moment
Same, was obvious he had serious potential just watching his physical gifts and ball carrying at pace early on. Rare stuff.Is it recency bias if I've been saying this since September? I was 100% sure of his talent after his first 2 or 3 PL games, and his Champions League performances.
Well I don't know about your personal comments about him. My point being it's way too early in my opinion to say he's close to the best in the league. As I say I like him as well but he has a long way to go still.Is it recency bias if I've been saying this since September? I was 100% sure of his talent after his first 2 or 3 PL games, and his Champions League performances.
I think his link up play in the PL has improved a lot recently, however I think he needs to further improve in that area as well as his hold up and ariel play which will hopefully comecome.What more do you think he could be doing, with the lack of service he's been having? His link up play and passing has also gone up a level in recent games.
I think he could've been a little more clinical earlier on in the season, but even the best strikers miss chances.
He's going to be worth hell of a lot more than £64m in my opinion, as he and the team progress (if we make the correct decisions in the transfer market)
Richarlison was playing second fiddle to Kane and had already scored 53 PL goals prior to that season.Who is a 64m striker though these days? Would it really buy you anyone that’s already top class and relatively young?
Everyone was quoting 100m + for the likes of Osimhen. Caiceido, Enzo went for ridiculous fees as apparently they were somehow “proven”.
Felix went for over 100m to Atletico.
V Junior went for 45m in 2018.
I’m really not sure what you think 64m gets you?
Richarlison I guess is your closest example at 60m, and in his first year at Spurs he scored a single Premier League goal and just 2 in the CL.
I actually think in this case it has been an advantage that the club have paid a high fee.It goes to show how much transfer fees influence fans view on a player.
Yet the footballing ability of a player only makes up part of a transfer fee.
If transfer fees were not disclosed then I can’t see anyone having a problem with Hojlund.
Quoting free transfers is an odd one to be fair, like slagging off everyone for spending money when Lewa went to Bayern on a free. It aids not the discussion.Richarlison was playing second fiddle to Kane and had already scored 53 PL goals prior to that season.
Whilst you are naming what was quoted for some players you ignored Marcus Thuram was available on a free, Sesko went for less money and I would say is a similar talent
All I was saying was we overpaid, its my opinion, he cost Atalanta 17m euros 1 year prior and he had not made the strides in his game or performances to go for 64m 12 months later.
I was all for his signing though, and like him as a player
EDIT: Its a bit tedious that people feel the need to try and justify the clubs transfer spending, when we all know the club will make SIGNIFICANT changes to the transfer and recruitment team for the very reason that they are underperforming at their jobs. Which does not just mean making poor signings player quality wise, but also overpaying for players too.
Jackson 35m I could carry on no point comparing to other transfers. Just compare it to his own 12 months priorQuoting free transfers is an odd one to be fair, like slagging off everyone for spending money when Lewa went to Bayern on a free. It aids not the discussion.
Sesko went to Leipzig, Højlund attracted PSG & United so you saying he’s a similar talent is something I’ll take with a pinch of salt.
Richarlison is the one, and my point was that he also took time to adjust to a new club, despite playing in the league previously. Nunez another that went for more and struggled in his first 6 months.
The thing is, Højlund wasn’t available at the say 40m you maybe think he was worth, and PSG were offering 50m.
So I’m not sure we overpaid at all when comparing othet transfers, we paid for potential rather than risk him smashing it this season and costing 50-60 regardless with other big clubs after him.
Not sure how we win there, we needed him now, not next season.
Jackson looks as average as it gets in fairness, would have been a much bigger waste of money.Jackson 35m I could carry on no point comparing to other transfers. Just compare it to his own 12 months prior
I'm not sure what's with all the player comparisons. The original point and only one I'm trying to tell you otherwise is you said Hojlund would be more of a poacher type hanging around centre backs. I'm saying he's an all rounder and what's he shown so far doesn't suggest he won't score 'more WH type goals'.But how would you describe Ruud? He would still do those kind of things, it’s not like a striker doesn’t get involved at all until the ball goes into the box. But there’s a big difference in the hold up play if someone like Rasmus versus RVP or Berba for example
Jackson is a year older, has similar goalscoring ratio as Hojlund (Jackson 0.36, Hojlund 0.357) this year so far, with less all round playJackson 35m I could carry on no point comparing to other transfers. Just compare it to his own 12 months prior
2 years older than Hojlund (2003 born)Jackson is a year older, has similar goalscoring ratio as Hojlund (Jackson 0.36, Hojlund 0.357) this year so far, with less all round play
I would say if Jackson costs 35M, I wouldn't say Hojlund costing 60M being unreasonable.