Yeah only focusing on a single CB target has proved to be very costly,the same applies to not moving on from Sancho much earlier in the window too
Rate our (extended) Summer 2020 Transfer Window
- Thread starter MyOnlySolskjaer
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
4/10 indeed.
Very poor window, made inexcusable because we had 6 months to do our business and still ended up with punts.
Cavani may shock and perform like the player he was, but it's not something to bet your house on.
An equivalent talent to VDB at DM would've helped us immensely.
I for one am very happy about the players signed.
It’s the players not signed that is the problem. Sancho, Grealish, a CDM/DLP and a CD. As well as the players not offloaded. But;
VDB – very good, adds quality depth in midfield, we all seem to agree he should be starting at the moment
Cavani – very good, a player I really like, with him and Ighalo I’m not worried about Martial’s suspension
Telles – very good, adds rotation for Shaw and another dimension going forward with his long shots
Diallo Traoré – very good, potentially excellent, massive talent, the number one priority signing for me.
Pellistri – haven’t seen much but he comes highly rated as well. Semi-Academy signing.
It’s the players not signed that is the problem. Sancho, Grealish, a CDM/DLP and a CD. As well as the players not offloaded. But;
VDB – very good, adds quality depth in midfield, we all seem to agree he should be starting at the moment
Cavani – very good, a player I really like, with him and Ighalo I’m not worried about Martial’s suspension
Telles – very good, adds rotation for Shaw and another dimension going forward with his long shots
Diallo Traoré – very good, potentially excellent, massive talent, the number one priority signing for me.
Pellistri – haven’t seen much but he comes highly rated as well. Semi-Academy signing.
I posted and said a few days ago that we should absolutely sign Amad Diallo Traoré up. This tells me yet again that Ole and the scouts know what they’re doing, or at least have some sort of a strategical thinking behind the transfers.
Im buzzing a little bit about this.
Amad Traoré is a left-footed RW/RF that cuts in. In other words, we’ll be able to play with two wingers/wide forwards that both cut in and then we’ll have overlapping left-footed LB:s and overlapping right-footed RB:s.
Exactly the way to go IMO.
Still time to get Démbélé or Sarr or on loan or maybe even Adama Traoré on a full transfer if we want extra cover on the right.
But if not, I think Greenwood, Mata and James can cover the RW/RF for the first half of the season.
Another way to get around not getting Sancho this window would be to play the 4-4-2 diamond formation.
And who’s to say we won’t be in for Sancho again further on as well?
Anyway, the thinking now should be to just get to January within touching distance of top four and still in the CL.
Then in January get a CB and a CDM which would set us up very nicely together with what we’ve already got.
Change the formation from the 4-2-3-1 to a 4-1-2-3. This is crucial IMO. As soon as we have a more options at CDM/DLP we should drop this business of playing two DM:s.
We’d then be 1-4 signings away from a title-challenge IMO. (Haaland plus possibly a LB and a RB depending on how our FB:s do this season). Also, as much as I like Pogba, I think he’ll fancy a move at some point and I also think that Grealish should be his replacement.
All in all, Ole didn't get most of his main targets but I still think this transfer window could turn out to be a good one in the long run. I expect inconsistent performances and results until we sort out the CB and CDM/DLP positions, but I'm ok with that.
Im buzzing a little bit about this.
Amad Traoré is a left-footed RW/RF that cuts in. In other words, we’ll be able to play with two wingers/wide forwards that both cut in and then we’ll have overlapping left-footed LB:s and overlapping right-footed RB:s.
Exactly the way to go IMO.
Still time to get Démbélé or Sarr or on loan or maybe even Adama Traoré on a full transfer if we want extra cover on the right.
But if not, I think Greenwood, Mata and James can cover the RW/RF for the first half of the season.
Another way to get around not getting Sancho this window would be to play the 4-4-2 diamond formation.
And who’s to say we won’t be in for Sancho again further on as well?
Anyway, the thinking now should be to just get to January within touching distance of top four and still in the CL.
Then in January get a CB and a CDM which would set us up very nicely together with what we’ve already got.
Change the formation from the 4-2-3-1 to a 4-1-2-3. This is crucial IMO. As soon as we have a more options at CDM/DLP we should drop this business of playing two DM:s.
We’d then be 1-4 signings away from a title-challenge IMO. (Haaland plus possibly a LB and a RB depending on how our FB:s do this season). Also, as much as I like Pogba, I think he’ll fancy a move at some point and I also think that Grealish should be his replacement.
All in all, Ole didn't get most of his main targets but I still think this transfer window could turn out to be a good one in the long run. I expect inconsistent performances and results until we sort out the CB and CDM/DLP positions, but I'm ok with that.
Last edited:
If we added Thomas Partey or that Marc Roca, it would have been an okay window
Just have a look at this. Wingers/wide forwards naturally cutting in and full-backs naturally overlapping. Brilliant and exactly what a team should strive for IMO. Good symmetry.
LW/LF: Rashford, James, Elanga
LB: Shaw, Telles
RW/RF: Greenwood, Diallo, Mata
RB: Awb, Williams, Laird
LW/LF: Rashford, James, Elanga
LB: Shaw, Telles
RW/RF: Greenwood, Diallo, Mata
RB: Awb, Williams, Laird
The fitness excuse is irrelevant and I don’t understand, why fans keeps using it. Other teams played as much game as we did before coming into this season and they have looked sharper than us this season. We have players who could perform much better than we have, especially against palace and Brighton, but the leadership isn’t there to put out a team or motivate the players to show more productivity on the pitch.
If Ole has showed that he can have us playing beautiful football and has a progressive philosophy, then I would say that these signings will benefit from that. However, when you watch us play, it doesn’t look like we are being coached. I have more optimism for these signings if we bring in a progressive manager like Pochettinowho has a great track record of turning these type of unknown to world class talent.
We have Martial who was our player of the season last year. We were never really going to replace him, but rather give him competition, which we did with Cavani, even though we have Igahlo. We have enough depth in st now, which is improvement over last season. Matic can be moved on after this season, but Fred and McTominay are great squad options for us. There is nothing wrong about the trio currently. No rush to get rid of the deadwood if there is no buyer. They can still do a role in the team with proper management. Ole doesn’t need time, because he already has time to gel with the players he has had before this window. Numerous signing makes instant impact, so I m not going to lower the standards further for Ole. Even James jelled instantly, so his signing don’t need time.
The only thing that was missing in this window was a quality right attacker.
Sancho reported overall cost would be over £270m. I wasn’t a favor if such an expensive acquisition, even though he is world class. I would have preferred us acquiring Dembele on that loan to buy deal. He would have made the window almost perfect. So overall, we have been backed.
What other teams played as much as United for longer in the PL? United only had 4 weeks to recover from the restart matches and the Europa League matches. To that, some players had international matches, so they didn't have a full 4 weeks. To that, 4 weeks weren't used as time away or complete recovery because the players had to train or prepare for the new season. I think you don't really understand what it means to take the necessary time off mentally, physically, and emotionally...then ramp up to the necessary levels, let alone turn on a switch against prepared PL opposition who had a full off season to rest and prepare.
I don't disagree that the team looks a bit out of whack when they play too many times, especially this past 3 league matches. However, you're going to give a manager necessary time to develop and improve his team, which was evident after a year and has to continue. Or, you sack the fecker and bring in players who are requisite to the first team needs and squad needs. What is it? And that's the biggest thing I will have as long as Woodward has his influence on this club. He's got no clue and doesn't have an idea how to build on successive transfer windows relative to the needs of the team and relative to what is mandatory to continue climbing up the table and closing the gap. That requires a vision of who can help now, who should have been able to help now from 2 or 3 years ago, and who can help in 2 to 3 years...that actual planning and acumen is independent of a manager. It's getting the pieces in place and makings sure the conveyor belts blend coherently so the yo yo of the club is minimal or zero. It would be steady at a high level and you can then change managers knowing that the quality is there to sustain and improve year on out, or at least sustain.
We weren't going to replace Martial, especially after his recent new contract unless there was a clear and available player who would take his place and go straight into the team. Even then, if that were to happen, I'd see Martial taking the place of Rashford. United have depth a striker, for one guaranteed season at least. It's still very short-sighted. United currently don't have the quality depth at left forward or right forward, unless Dan James improves to a good consistent level...he's still not a good enough option, but he is a good tactical option when playing pure counter attack as he was used last year. Mata is on his last legs and isn't a true right forward. Lingard isn't a right or left forward and his contract is up in June 2021.
VDB is also good insurance as we don't know Pogba's contract situation. So that's going to have to be dealt with.
So you're saying that Ole and the team were back correctly or were they backed because there are bodies that came in, regardless of position? And remember, shifting off wages and deadwood is part of being backed because if they aren't playing or available for selection and useful impact for the first team, then wtf are they doing at the club?
Ole and any manager needs time in the beginning of the season to get their up to speed and at optimal ability. Unfortunately, a typical pre-season would be around 4 to 6 pre-season matches along with uninterrupted training and rest. So United used their first 5 competition matches as a pseudo pre-season but against teams that have been given a lot of competitive matches and preparation that dwarfs United's.
So overall, United were backed by numbers but not by the requisite quality to seriously think they can close the gap between first and second not only for this year, but next year and the year after.
Nice to see a bit of positivity amongst this plethora of negativity.....I don’t know how these guys muster the energy to get out of bed in the morning.
I would presume when you are talking about Dembele/Adama Traore you are referring to the January window
Yeah I know, sure Man Utd have some problems no doubt, but there are some good things going on as well.
Actually I wrote that before the window had closed, but yes, I guess the next window would be he next opportunity. The question is if we really need another winger now. I would be inclined to just rotate Greenwood, Mata and James on he right until January. I wouldn't say no to either Démbéle, Adama Traoré, Sarr or Sancho though. But I prefer Amad Traoré to all of them.
No one should count the last two, they're clearly going into the under 23's, one's only played 24 minutes of first team football for his current club and is expected to get first team minutes a plenty here? Nah
VDB - 7/10 - much needed back up for Bruno so we don't burn him out again or have to rely on Lingard
Telles - N/A - can't rate this one as I've never seen him play, if he's an upgrade on Shaw then another 7/10 but if he's a back up then WTF is the point? Why not sign someone better than Shaw and make him the backup?
Cavani - 6/10 - only on the basis that he's an upgrade on Ighalo, if that turns out not to be the case then utterly pointless
All in all a bang average window and as I said months ago a repeat of 2018
Jamie Jackson reported they will both be in the first team. United made big announcements for them unlike typical youth signings.
Yeah and why do you think they did that
Because one cost 30M+ and the other around 10M. These aren't the type of signings you make for the U23 squad.
They've got you hook line and sinker then
Incomings:
VDB: Very happy with this one, though we've not seen much of him in the side just yet but feels like we're ahead of the game for once in getting-in a replacement for Pogba once he runs-down his contract and leaves on a free in 2022 - with Donny we potentially aren't going to be as screwed by that as we would've been.
Telles: Position that needed filling, and for a decent-ish price in the circumstances - might not settled-in as fast as Bruno did, but at worst he's a new option for when Shaw is injured; at best he brings a whole new dimension to the team.
Diallo: Don't know the player, but love what I've heard about since the signing. Promising.
Pellistri: Same as Diallo I don't know him, but at the price then can't really fail. I like these type of signings, despite being burned by the likes of Obertan and Bebe in the past.
Cavani: ...honestly I can't remember a signing that has looked like more of an inevitable disaster than this one. Really, really hope he proves me wrong (and I'll be delighted to admit I was wrong here) but there's just so many things against this being a success: his recent injury record, lack of match-time this year (even accounting for the pandemic), the fact he's spent so long playing for the one horse in the one horse league that is the French league, etc. Really hope I'm wrong but...
Out:
Sanchez: Annoyed we had to pay to get rid-off him, but at least the nightmare is over.
Smalling: I'm one of those who thought he should be in our rotation at least (for me he would be a starter given our other options) but the club/Ole made the decision so here we are. Far too cheap for me, and I'm sure Roma will sell him back to the Premier League soon-ish for a profit, but it is what it is.
Pereira: Would prefer a sale obviously, but loan will have to do.
Dalot: I didn't want him gone, but a loan is probably best.
Since we can't move on Jones and co then hopefully their contracts will be allowed to run-down and we can all move on.
Gave-up on Sancho when the Dortmund deadline passed, so no longer salty on that one. Expect I'll get salty again when he inevitably joins Chelsea or Liverpool at a special Klopp-discount price next summer, but too late now to prevent that happening.
Top four going to be very, very hard this year, but we knew that already.
4/10 seems fair, largely due not knowing enough about Pellistri and Diallo.
VDB: Very happy with this one, though we've not seen much of him in the side just yet but feels like we're ahead of the game for once in getting-in a replacement for Pogba once he runs-down his contract and leaves on a free in 2022 - with Donny we potentially aren't going to be as screwed by that as we would've been.
Telles: Position that needed filling, and for a decent-ish price in the circumstances - might not settled-in as fast as Bruno did, but at worst he's a new option for when Shaw is injured; at best he brings a whole new dimension to the team.
Diallo: Don't know the player, but love what I've heard about since the signing. Promising.
Pellistri: Same as Diallo I don't know him, but at the price then can't really fail. I like these type of signings, despite being burned by the likes of Obertan and Bebe in the past.
Cavani: ...honestly I can't remember a signing that has looked like more of an inevitable disaster than this one. Really, really hope he proves me wrong (and I'll be delighted to admit I was wrong here) but there's just so many things against this being a success: his recent injury record, lack of match-time this year (even accounting for the pandemic), the fact he's spent so long playing for the one horse in the one horse league that is the French league, etc. Really hope I'm wrong but...
Out:
Sanchez: Annoyed we had to pay to get rid-off him, but at least the nightmare is over.
Smalling: I'm one of those who thought he should be in our rotation at least (for me he would be a starter given our other options) but the club/Ole made the decision so here we are. Far too cheap for me, and I'm sure Roma will sell him back to the Premier League soon-ish for a profit, but it is what it is.
Pereira: Would prefer a sale obviously, but loan will have to do.
Dalot: I didn't want him gone, but a loan is probably best.
Since we can't move on Jones and co then hopefully their contracts will be allowed to run-down and we can all move on.
Gave-up on Sancho when the Dortmund deadline passed, so no longer salty on that one. Expect I'll get salty again when he inevitably joins Chelsea or Liverpool at a special Klopp-discount price next summer, but too late now to prevent that happening.
Top four going to be very, very hard this year, but we knew that already.
4/10 seems fair, largely due not knowing enough about Pellistri and Diallo.
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
I think my main objection isn't necessary with the signings, it's just the utter lack of a plan we seem to have. its just a scattergun affect.
Manchester City is one of those team that played as many game and didn’t have as much week to recover before the start of the new season. Yet, they still look like a team that is well organized and structured on the pitch. Ole already had time, it is no excuse after two years that we still look like we don’t know what we are doing on the pitch. Most of the players we have already, will fit into the next managers plan as we aren’t in need of a huge rebuild. We have one of the best eleven in football and this transfer window has given us more depth. The only changes to the team will be philosophical in that the players that can’t adapt to the new managers gameplan will be not needed. Our depth at the right could be stronger, but we have added Cavani, Pellistri and DVDB, who will strengthen our attack. Not my choice, but Ole and the board decided that is who they wanted that is affordable. It is an upgrade on what we had last year, so there is improvement. Ole was backed because with the addition we have made, we are stronger depth wise than we were last season. Every United fan agreed that this is our strongest 11 post sir Alex, now it is time for ole to bring in the result, which he failed to do so last season. Those deadwood can have a turn in their career. I remember fans wrote of Shaw, Fred, mctominay, Rashford, martial, Pogba, matic and so on as deadwood, but as it shows now, they are critical part of the team. The current deadwood in the team can give our starting 11 resting periods by performing in insignificant matches. So, that is what they can be used for. Ole team is much stronger now than it was last year. Saying he wasn’t backed is wrong. If you compare to Real Madrid this season or Spurs and arsenal few season ago, that is the true definition of managers not being backed. Our board has spoiled fans like you that expect us to spend £100m every summer.
Last edited:
The board delivered Ole main target last season of £80m for Maguire. I m not surprised that they are skeptical of his opinion now. If he can’t improve what he has, then he needs to step down. Even though Grelish and Sancho would better addition, they would be much more costly. Sancho overall cost would be near £270m, while Grelish initial cost would be the same as Maguire.
5/10. We now have a complete squad. But a lot of players in that squad either don’t have any chemistry or aren’t good enough.
City have currently 1 point more than United in the PL. They've also had Pep as their manager for how many years now? And they can rely on some good quality players as they've done it year in and year out. So right now, results matter and City are only 1 point ahead of United.
What did Ole fail to do so last season? Bring a trophy? Win the PL title?
Do you understand that not everybody who says half of the first team starting XI is deadwood is right, right? Your comment is just insane about Shaw, Fred, McTominay, Rashford, Martial, Pogba, and Matic being deadwood?! They all have their place in the starting XI or match day squads. They've NEVER been deadwoode and have been critical to the team. Deadwood is Lingard, Jones, Rojo, TFM, Pereria, Dalot, Romero.
United don't need a huge rebuild, but they need to continue to build and build correctly. That did not happen this transfer window. The club is in a grey area where they "want" to build for the future, but don't have the requisite quality nor consistency from the players to win now as in challenge for the title because the development of Rashford and Martial as your top forwards wasn't complemented by managers or systems or coaches pre-Ole. There was no defined understanding or expectation from club and manager on how to use those players. Greenwood is very much a top talent who had a great first year under Ole, but only 19 and has loads more to learn and improve and grow.
United don't have one of the best eleven in football. You're fecking mad and just completely wrong. Their potential might be....but potential doesn't mean shit.
Cavani could strengthen the attack, but it's still wait and see with him and he has a lot of adapting to do, which isn't really in the interest of the club because they need players who can hit the ground running now. Same with Pellistri....they aren't ready and we'll all be glad if they are match winners once they step onto the pitch, but its very unlikely isn't.
That's the board coming to Ole saying, this is what we got and you gotta deal with it. He'll deal with it, but that's extremely underwhelming and that's not the requisite requirements to close the gap between first and second this year nor next year nor the year after next year. And with that comes time and it's probably not going to be with Ole, which is fine and understandable.
What insignificant matches? What the feck is that? Every time United lose or drop points, it's the end of the world and zero context is applied. So how does that help anything? There are no insignificant matches at Manchester United!!!! Make up your mind with standards and what you expect. It's okay to lose, but to call United matches insignficant is a disgrace.
You know the matches that are truly insignificant and you play the players and help them get up to a good standard for the 'significant matches'....yeah, it's called pre-season friendlies! Look how those went this past pre-season, they went so well did they not?!
I and many of us don't need United to spend 100 million quid each summer. You don't have to because the previous windows complement and improve your team as that's why those players you're developing or buying are on long term contracts and are developed under manager(s) with similar understandings and tactics that don't require specific players or huge shifts in ideals/styles. But if your goals are to crack into the Top 2 or legitimately challenge for the title against Liverpool or whoever, you're gonna need massive reinforcements who are capable of doing so the current year and in future years. If Woodward actually told Ole that this season he has to break into the top 2 and legitimately challenge for the PL title, then give me the list of players you need....Woodward is a deluded, deluded man knowing that the budget for these players were going to be high...and again, that's managing expectations and understanding what is realistic in a football sense.
But again, that takes competent vision and planning....and that's not on Ole...that's on Woodward. If United signed
It wasn't only Ole's target, but Mourinho's target and could have been much less expensive the year before actually signing him if you're to believe whoever you believe. That's exactly the point many people are trying to make....Woodward doesn't have a clue on how to sign players and how it impacts the team in future years. You cannot sign players according to the manager because so far, each manager Woodward has hired is completely different. But you sign players that can be quality for any manager because they are good enough or can improve to be good enough.
Grealish's replacement was DVB from what we can see, maybe not. But you're telling us that Sancho's alternative was Cavani and two teenagers who are completely unproven while you already have a teenager that has to continue to improve and sustain his qualities in Greenwood?
Again, it's not how much you spend, it's how well you spend it and what you previously spent should be providing you fruits of your labor now. But that's not how the approach or strategy under Woodward has gone because he's incompetent. Ole's laid out a good foundation, but it's still a work in progress. It always will be. The front three are young but have good PL experience. Sancho or a Buendia or Sarr or Wolves Traore would be a good, fair addition. United still need a competent and reliable CB to complement Maguire and Lindelof, if not really threaten their first XI selection...Bailly is not that and is much better served as a clear backup and emergency starter or domestic cup starter.
I'd give it a don't know 
Obviously the two young wingers could make a big difference to our vibrancy but so could the full back we signed. Once the UNIT...is functioning as a team then things will settle but it's too early. The fact is we won't know for a long while yet. We saw with James how people are and how players can be.....so we don't know. I'd say 5 neutral but it wouldn't be hard to improve on our start.
Obviously the two young wingers could make a big difference to our vibrancy but so could the full back we signed. Once the UNIT...is functioning as a team then things will settle but it's too early. The fact is we won't know for a long while yet. We saw with James how people are and how players can be.....so we don't know. I'd say 5 neutral but it wouldn't be hard to improve on our start.I think the biggest mistake we made was obviously the failed Sancho pursuit. It's been said but the main issue wasn't that we didn't get him, it was the way the pursuit was conducted - knew the price, never had any intention of meeting it and then panicked.
Having said that, I'm excited about the players we did get. VDB will be great for us, once he gets a run in the team. Telles will take Shaw's place quite quickly I think. Cavani is a low risk gamble. Lots of people grumbling but the guy is a goalscorer. At 33, hopefully he's still up to it - I think he'll be great. Diallo looks special. Pellistri, honestly no idea.
8/10 for the window.
Having said that, I'm excited about the players we did get. VDB will be great for us, once he gets a run in the team. Telles will take Shaw's place quite quickly I think. Cavani is a low risk gamble. Lots of people grumbling but the guy is a goalscorer. At 33, hopefully he's still up to it - I think he'll be great. Diallo looks special. Pellistri, honestly no idea.
8/10 for the window.
Pep has been for city for 5 years and the longer the manager has been at the club, the more likely their will be a dip in performance due to reaching the footballing cycle, where players needs to be refreshed with new ideas. This season, city are playing without their main strikers and also didn’t improve on their defense until recently. Unlike ole who has all his main players fit and added depth to a team that was top of the league after reset. No excuse for Ole to be performing so poor compared to pep in which the latter is in a worse state. I only imagine how shite we will be if we were without our best attacker.
Ole not only failed to win a trophy, but also showcase consistency of positive performance throughout the season. Last season, we were as bad as a relegation team and as good as a title contender team. Such a streaky manager isn’t what will take us back on top as it is showing already this season as we have looked like relegation candidates in our first three games despite having a top team.
Those players I listed where considered deadwood in past managers as they were not favored. Mourinho dropped Pogba consistently for example, until he got sacked, then Pogba came back into the team and helped Ole get the permanent position. United does have the one of the best 11 in football.We just have a poor manager that can’t get the best out of them.
All the options we signed will strengthen our team, as they are better than what we had last season. Insignificant matches like league cup games or games where we are comfortable expected to win. Those types of games, we don’t need our strongest 11. This is where these deadwood can come in and be of use. You only need massive reinforcements if the board hasn’t back the manager in previous season and a rebuilding is needed. Unfortunately for Ole that isn’t the case. With this transfer window, Ole has reached £300m spent on players, in addition to having a squad that is worth over £500m. That is more than enough to crack into top two and teams has done that with much less.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ma...ry-maguire-was-his-number-one-transfer-target
If he was too expensive, we could have identified different center backs at less price.
You can’t sign players that can be quality for any managers because different managers have different philosophy. A manager like Bielsa, Pochettino, pep, wouldn’t want a non-technical traditional footballer from managers like Mourinho, Simeone, etc.
All of Ole target would have cost £300m combined.This is not football manager. No board would sanction such acquisition, especially after spending so much in the past windows. Great manager, improve on the players they have, not cry like our fan does when daddy didn’t give us more expensive toys to play with then complain a few years later that that toy is shite.
Yeah and the same applies to identifying right wingers at a lower price as well, would also like to think that signing a DM is at least somewhat of a consideration next summer considering that Matic is not the most mobile and Fred/Scott cannot play that role in my opinion
Ole's main players such as Pogba had Covid and he's clearly not fit nor match fit.
When you look at the performance and results, it was a gradual climb or ascendancy. Does the final table not reflect that? United have had a poor start to the season, but again, there are so many factors into that and I guess United should just quit while they are too far behind and just not play the remaining 35 matches which is equivalent to 105 points.
Mourinho did drop Pogba as he was being petulant and Pogba did deserve to be dropped, but at the cost of the team and results.
United don't have one of the best 11s in football because they aren't of requisite quality. A manager can improve them, but over time. Ole improved Rashford, Martial, Greenwood, Fred, etc. over the course of one season last year. And that was still with Pogba, Rashford, Martial, Shaw, Matic, McTominay, etc. out of significant times last year due to injuries. So when you're trying to perform but still get results without your first choices, which is normal throughout a season, you have to make due and I think it safe to say Ole and team did a good job last season all things considered.
And again, it's not about the massive ins and outs every window or the actual total or net spend. It's about the consistent and strategic approach of player ins and outs that occur through multiple windows and multiple years that pre-dates Ole and goes through him as manager. It's all about Woodward and the club making these decisions and how 3 years ago and further back their indecisions or bad decisions severely outweigh the good decisions.
Anybody else very excited about Telles? Can't wait to see what he'll offer on the left!
And that's again my biggest point...you don't hire according to specific manager philosophies or needs, there are smart football boards and football people in charge with a broader group who can identify good players who can be used by good managers. Players will usually outlast managers, that much is obvious. Why give a manager a 3 year contract and a player 4 or 5 years?
Why are you recruiting and signing players of specific strengths when you're overlooking the baseline foundation of highly technical players, who have energy, strength, IQ, and the necessary desire/effort to win at a club like United. You think di Maria had that, Sanchez, Lukaku, etc.? No because they didn't want to stay and fight and didn't get it. They were flogged off at first legit chance.
Great managers, not saying Ole is one, get time. Not just 1.5 full seasons.
And again, it's not about how much you spend, it's how efficient and how well you spend...which never means spending over 75M per player when we've all seen how United have made crude and smart signings for 'cheap' in years gone by because they knew they were a better fit and better suited for their team. The da Silva twins, Park, Valencia, Chicharito, Carrick, Evra, Vidic, etc.
-10/10.
Anyone rating this as anything more than 1/10 is pretty much prepared for a Liverpool-like drought of titles.
Anyone rating this as anything more than 1/10 is pretty much prepared for a Liverpool-like drought of titles.
VdB - 9/10. Good price, good player, good pro, signed quite early.
Telles - hopeful he'll be an 8/10 but who knows. We need a LB, he was pretty cheap, seems to have a good attacking record, apparently a bit of a warrior (I miss pre-cnut Heinze!).
Cavani - hopeful he'll be a 7/10 but who knows. Old, injury prone, but a good character with lots of ability so I'm hopeful.
Diallo - 6/10? He looks talented but we paid a fortune for him and we sorted it all out too late to get a work permit it seems, so not ideal. Look forward to seeing him though.
Pellistri - hopeful he'll be a 9/10 but who knows. Talented, cheap, attitude comes highly recommended so let's see. Definitely nothing more than a punt here though.
New DM - 1/10. Maybe vdB will magically become one?
New CB - -1/10. Didn't sign anyone, relying on the same old sicknotes and Muppets, managed to sell our 2nd best CB for an OK price but now Lindelof is our 2nd best CB...
Getting rid of players we don't want or need - 2/10. Sanchez deal was good, Pereira deal was fine, Dalot well it's better than having him stick around and not playing him. Romero god knows why he's still here given he's a good player and we don't need him, Rojo and Jones HOW?!, Bailly well I guess we still need him for now, Lingard surely somebody would have given us a few mill for him?
So in total if I'm feeling optimistic (9+8+7+6+9+1+-1+2) / 8 = 5.a bit / 10
Telles - hopeful he'll be an 8/10 but who knows. We need a LB, he was pretty cheap, seems to have a good attacking record, apparently a bit of a warrior (I miss pre-cnut Heinze!).
Cavani - hopeful he'll be a 7/10 but who knows. Old, injury prone, but a good character with lots of ability so I'm hopeful.
Diallo - 6/10? He looks talented but we paid a fortune for him and we sorted it all out too late to get a work permit it seems, so not ideal. Look forward to seeing him though.
Pellistri - hopeful he'll be a 9/10 but who knows. Talented, cheap, attitude comes highly recommended so let's see. Definitely nothing more than a punt here though.
New DM - 1/10. Maybe vdB will magically become one?
New CB - -1/10. Didn't sign anyone, relying on the same old sicknotes and Muppets, managed to sell our 2nd best CB for an OK price but now Lindelof is our 2nd best CB...
Getting rid of players we don't want or need - 2/10. Sanchez deal was good, Pereira deal was fine, Dalot well it's better than having him stick around and not playing him. Romero god knows why he's still here given he's a good player and we don't need him, Rojo and Jones HOW?!, Bailly well I guess we still need him for now, Lingard surely somebody would have given us a few mill for him?
So in total if I'm feeling optimistic (9+8+7+6+9+1+-1+2) / 8 = 5.a bit / 10
Voted... Nooooooo
1. We needed a CB
2. We needed a world class striker, we got a 33 year old former world class striker and are praying he can have one last fling at it.
3. We need to replace Matic
Only time will tell with Telles but my head tells me Brazilian full backs struggle in England, especially 27 year old thats best football has come in Portugal.
VDB, looks decent but is going to grow frustrated as I don't think he will start enough games with the Fernandes and Pogba formation.
The two kids are kids, unless they are George Best at best we won't see the best of them for two years at least and given we had a free hit at them I'm gonna assume they aren't George Best level.
1. We needed a CB
2. We needed a world class striker, we got a 33 year old former world class striker and are praying he can have one last fling at it.
3. We need to replace Matic
Only time will tell with Telles but my head tells me Brazilian full backs struggle in England, especially 27 year old thats best football has come in Portugal.
VDB, looks decent but is going to grow frustrated as I don't think he will start enough games with the Fernandes and Pogba formation.
The two kids are kids, unless they are George Best at best we won't see the best of them for two years at least and given we had a free hit at them I'm gonna assume they aren't George Best level.
well, I see the club are already pushing Cavani shirts at anyone who passes within a mile of the club's social media.. so Woodward achieved his main aim
If Pogba is not fit, then play DVDB. If doctors had cleared Pogba to play and Ole played him, then his injury isn’t as serious. There is no comparison. I would fancy ageuro would be of more use for city with the same ailment Pogba has then the one he currently has that has him sidelined. There is no intensity in our players or sense of cohesion, which comes down to poor management.
The final table doesn’t reflect that because we had the same point tally as Moyes and leceister choked, while Chelsea couldn’t strengthen their team, which made the stars aligned for Ole that season. Saying that our 11 isn’t of requisite quality is highly subjective when statistics which are highly objective showed that we had one of the best defense in Europe, MMM was one of the most lethal attack in Europe(out scoring evenLiverpool trio), Bruno output in terms of goals and assists was well noted, and we also have Pogba who is one of the most expensive midfielder in the world. We do have one of the best 11 in football and statistics makes that claim more objective. Woodward has fault in chosen the wrong managers with different ideologies. He went from picking a possession based manager to a defensive based manager to a false defensive manager.Woodward doesn’t appear to have a clue about on field football activities, so I doubt he identifies most of our target. If we pick a manager that has a better recruiting strategy that is supported by atransfer comittee that follows his ideology then, we will have a more steady ship. But Ole targets last season may have put doubts in our board head towards whether ridiculously expensive acquisitions are the right approach.Ole needs to show more confidence and if our players start performing then our board might decide to take up the Barcelona, Real Madrid approach to transfer, as our result will shows that strategy works.
players will outlast managers if the managers does really poorly. Pochettino was at Spurs for five years, Pep at city for 5 years, Klopp will stay at Liverpool for awhile, etc. Those smart people in the board aren’t doing the coaching. United need to restructure our organizational structure and start by hiring a progressive manager like Pochettino or nagelsman and building a transfer comittee and footballing structure that revolves around their philosophy. The manager should have more say in the players they want rather than people in the board who isn’t on the training pitch or making the tactics. Ole have gotten more time then he should have. It is the same thing we have seen from him since he has been here and the only way that will change is if a player comes in and his individual brilliance pulls us through just like how Bruno saved Ole job post reset. Cavani might be that player this season.
Why are you comparing one season to another season? Every season is it's own thing. There can be 40 teams in the top division and United having 100 points doesn't mean anything if they don't win the league or finish 10th. It's about the final table results, who the feck cares about total points compared to previous seasons.
So if you're now saying that United statistically had one of the best defensives in Europe based on goals conceded, then doesn't the manager have something to do with that? And then you compare that defense to the current defense through 3 PL matches....same exact players, but they are severely underperforming due to a major factors and some reasons can include the manager, but the players are making way too many individual mistakes and are getting punished for it.
See that's where you aren't understanding the point of having football men in charge of the football side of the club. If the manager sets out targets that are too overpriced, then you communicate that to him and you work with the scouts, your network, managers, coaches, recruitment head on identifying players who can provide the input needed for the right output (results) for the first team. You don't think that Woodward is telling Ole, hey this is our budget, this is what they are telling us and these are the fees...we need to move on and here's what we're trying to get and here's why. But from many sources, United aren't conducting business with other clubs directly, too many intermediaries for too many peoples likings. And if you do business with middlemen, you know that shit isn't always smooth sailing and that you're at the mercy of someone else trying to conduct business you don't exactly control...and that's frustrating. Sometimes it has to be done that way, but usually you incur additional expenses and stress when dealing with middlemen...and that just shows you're kind of inept or don't have the resources to conduct all business transactions if you're using middlemen. Which is okay to admit, but when you're the size of United and claim to have all these financial resources and means, you shouldn't be doing that.
It's not even showing more confidence in the players they have, it's knowing the fecking gap between United and Liverpool is significant and if you have a target of challenging for the league this season, then you better get them reinforcements of proper quality and then the proper time to get the players, current and new, up to speed not considering injuries, suspensions, etc.
Hiring a better manager or more innovative manager than Ole isn't difficult....what is difficult is having that footballing IQ at the top of the club and having it go through the club. Good managers need, always, good players to be good teams. You can't make a cake with shit. You could make it a little better, but you can't make cake with shit. And that doesn't mean signing the world's most expensive players...it means having a system that brings in quality consistently at good value and you're understanding that the players who come in at different times can and hopefully will overlap in terms of optimal or near optimal performances so you have a mesh of young, older, old/experienced heads and losing one or two players (or managers) doesn't mean you're starting from zero, but able to carry on for the most part if not improve.
Bruno didn't 'save' Ole's job...he made the team better. As did Martial, as did Greenwood, as did getting Pogba back, as did Matic, Fred, and McTominay doing their part. As did the defenders, as did DDG. You win as a team and you lose as a team, but the manager will always be underappreciated and overappreciated.
Having competent players isn't saving a specific job, it's just a competent and realistic thing the club should be doing. Neglecting the right wing for years after Valencia went to RB wasn't LVG's fault, nor Mourinho's...don't you think if you're in charge of the football club like Woodward and whoever else, you look at your product and say, hey....we're kind of lagging on that position or from what I've seen across the leagues, seems to be lacking...hmmm...maybe I should bring that up to the relevant people at the club and see what they think, but because I'm CEO I'll make the decision on behalf of the club...since that's my job after all.
Pellistri is in the CL squad thats more or less full confirmation that he`ll be in the first team and jouros close to Utd have all said its the case and even though he`s only played 24 min do you REALLY think we`ve paid close to 40m pounds on a highly rated 18 yr old we`ve scouted for years just to stick him to the U23s? You`re having a laugh and before you rule them out I bet in 2017 you wouldn`t swap Lindelof, Matic and Lukaku for a 17yr old Jadon Sancho for 7m let`s see how the young kids pan out at least one of them(Traore especially) could turn out to be a star on the verge of a breakthrough season that makes him a 100m player
Now that heads have calmed, I think I can objectively describe this window. I would give it a 5/10.
Incomings : We needed a left back to compete with Shaw. And Telles at 15M is a brilliant buy. We needed competition for Martial. And Cavani for free, will offer us something different, and would be an excellent weapon. VdB is another astute buy at 35M, and will definitely strengthen our midfield. What we needed though was a top RW. We should have had backups to Sancho and executed them sooner, but eventually ended up with Amad Diallo and Pellestri. Still prefer that over a mediocre buy though. CB and CM are positions we currently have a lot of players in, and can be addressed in the next window.
Outgoings : Shambles. Only managed to sell Sanchez and Smalling(that too at the last minute). Should have sold/loaned out atleast 5 more players(Romero, Lingard, Jones, Rojo, TFM).
Overall planning : Very concerning. Although the buys I think will prove shrewd signings, we definitely should have completed the deals way more swiftly rather than fumbling around with 4 signings on deadline day. That shows a very indecisive people at charge, who take too long to get things done. Also failing to add a single undisputed first XI player may prove costly at the end of the season. I think a window of Telles, VDB, Cavani and Chiesa(any competent and exciting RW) would have been appreciated by most people.
Incomings : We needed a left back to compete with Shaw. And Telles at 15M is a brilliant buy. We needed competition for Martial. And Cavani for free, will offer us something different, and would be an excellent weapon. VdB is another astute buy at 35M, and will definitely strengthen our midfield. What we needed though was a top RW. We should have had backups to Sancho and executed them sooner, but eventually ended up with Amad Diallo and Pellestri. Still prefer that over a mediocre buy though. CB and CM are positions we currently have a lot of players in, and can be addressed in the next window.
Outgoings : Shambles. Only managed to sell Sanchez and Smalling(that too at the last minute). Should have sold/loaned out atleast 5 more players(Romero, Lingard, Jones, Rojo, TFM).
Overall planning : Very concerning. Although the buys I think will prove shrewd signings, we definitely should have completed the deals way more swiftly rather than fumbling around with 4 signings on deadline day. That shows a very indecisive people at charge, who take too long to get things done. Also failing to add a single undisputed first XI player may prove costly at the end of the season. I think a window of Telles, VDB, Cavani and Chiesa(any competent and exciting RW) would have been appreciated by most people.