Ravel Morrison | Derby player

RooneyLegend

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Ok for argument sake since I want to know how highly he is rated here at the CAF since you guys know more than me.


IF and only IF Ravel, promises to work super hard in trainings, give 200% every time he is on the field be it in training or games and also promises never ever ever to go back to his bad ways, will you guys still take him for one last swansong?

Just curious....
sign him up
 

Alex99

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Ok for argument sake since I want to know how highly he is rated here at the CAF since you guys know more than me.


IF and only IF Ravel, promises to work super hard in trainings, give 200% every time he is on the field be it in training or games and also promises never ever ever to go back to his bad ways, will you guys still take him for one last swansong?

Just curious....
Not a chance.

He's not a 23/24 year old that's had a couple of dodgy loan spells and delayed his development, he's a 28 year old that's 11 seasons into his professional career, and he's done absolutely nothing of note at any of the many clubs he's been at to suggest he's remotely close to being capable of performing at the level required at United.
 

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No one knows why he couldn't get games from then. If his talent didn't translate then he'd have never looked that talented on that stage but he did.
It was a handful of games against nobody special iirc.

In the grand scheme of things he’s done absolutely nothing to prove he’s anywhere near good enough to play PL football or arguably even professional football.

Anybody who thinks he was good enough for PL football because he used to bang them in for the youth teams doesn’t understand how monumental a jump in class that is. It’s massive
 

RooneyLegend

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It was a handful of games against nobody special iirc.

In the grand scheme of things he’s done absolutely nothing to prove he’s anywhere near good enough to play PL football or arguably even professional football.

Anybody who thinks he was good enough for PL football because he used to bang them in for the youth teams doesn’t understand how monumental a jump in class that is. It’s massive
He played over 1000mins in the prem as a toddler and he was more than good enough for the level. He went to the Championship and was a stand out player immediately. His talent isn't in doubt, nor is the level of football he can produce but for whatever reason he disappears from teams. In truth, he should've signed with Big Sams agent and kept it moving.
 

R_Cubed

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Pride and ego causing our downfall. Tunisia whole team damn near born in France and particularly Paris. quota. What a laugh. So basically we wanna eternally trash?
Mate, exactly. Let me show you what Jamaica's team is without quotas.

GK Andre Blake
RB James Justin/Kyle Walker-Peters
CB Ben Godfrey
CB Mason Holgate
LB Kemar Lawrence
DM Ravel Morrison/Isaac Hayden
DM Daniel Johnson/Morgan Gibbs-White
AM Bobby Decordova-Reid
RW Nathan Redmond
LW Leon Bailey
ST Michail Antonio

Add to this Jamaal Lascelles, Dwight McNeal, Emile Smith-Rowe*** Unlikely for now.
The fans in the live laughed at the official and he was embarassed because with social media people dm and contacted many of these players and told him these guys were interested in representing Jamaica. He did say that they need local players in the squad to play because they also have roles in local clubs and selling them on brings the Federation funding. Hence why only players from certain local clubs make the team. It is for them to be sold. The Federation doesn't have sponsors because they are known for wasting funds. If you notice Cedella Marley, Bob Marley's daughter, runs the female team. She gets the sponsors and there is no quota system. Hence why they excel and the men don't. The women's team have now extended their reach to The UK so we have a lot of UK born players in the squad now as opposed to earlier where it was mainly The USA and Canada. Their next goal is getting Lauren James to commit.
 

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He played over 1000mins in the prem as a toddler and he was more than good enough for the level. He went to the Championship and was a stand out player immediately. His talent isn't in doubt, nor is the level of football he can produce but for whatever reason he disappears from teams. In truth, he should've signed with Big Sams agent and kept it moving.
What's that 11 games? Where he stood out and scored a nice goal in what, 1 game?

He is struggling to get minutes in farmers leagues.

I'm not sure why people get touchy over him. He was, and remains, nothing more than a decent youth player. McTominay is levels and levels above him as a pro level player (as a random example.)

He doesn't have what it takes at top level football, its undeniable.
 

Champ

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No one knows why he couldn't get games from then. If his talent didn't translate then he'd have never looked that talented on that stage but he did.
He never looked talented at senior level though - thats the point!!

He played well in three West Ham games, before not getting in the team and getting loaned out and underwhelming wherever he went on loan (Birmingham i think??) and ever since.
 

RooneyLegend

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What's that 11 games? Where he stood out and scored a nice goal in what, 1 game?

He is struggling to get minutes in farmers leagues.

I'm not sure why people get touchy over him. He was, and remains, nothing more than a decent youth player. McTominay is levels and levels above him as a pro level player (as a random example.)

He doesn't have what it takes at top level football, its undeniable.
Mate, exactly. Let me show you what Jamaica's team is without quotas.

GK Andre Blake
RB James Justin/Kyle Walker-Peters
CB Ben Godfrey
CB Mason Holgate
LB Kemar Lawrence
DM Ravel Morrison/Isaac Hayden
DM Daniel Johnson/Morgan Gibbs-White
AM Bobby Decordova-Reid
RW Nathan Redmond
LW Leon Bailey
ST Michail Antonio

Add to this Jamaal Lascelles, Dwight McNeal, Emile Smith-Rowe*** Unlikely for now.
The fans in the live laughed at the official and he was embarassed because with social media people dm and contacted many of these players and told him these guys were interested in representing Jamaica. He did say that they need local players in the squad to play because they also have roles in local clubs and selling them on brings the Federation funding. Hence why only players from certain local clubs make the team. It is for them to be sold. The Federation doesn't have sponsors because they are known for wasting funds. If you notice Cedella Marley, Bob Marley's daughter, runs the female team. She gets the sponsors and there is no quota system. Hence why they excel and the men don't. The women's team have now extended their reach to The UK so we have a lot of UK born players in the squad now as opposed to earlier where it was mainly The USA and Canada. Their next goal is getting Lauren James to commit.
Wow, that team would even do well at the world cup.
 

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Mate, exactly. Let me show you what Jamaica's team is without quotas.

GK Andre Blake
RB James Justin/Kyle Walker-Peters
CB Ben Godfrey
CB Mason Holgate
LB Kemar Lawrence
DM Ravel Morrison/Isaac Hayden
DM Daniel Johnson/Morgan Gibbs-White
AM Bobby Decordova-Reid
RW Nathan Redmond
LW Leon Bailey
ST Michail Antonio

Add to this Jamaal Lascelles, Dwight McNeal, Emile Smith-Rowe*** Unlikely for now.
The fans in the live laughed at the official and he was embarassed because with social media people dm and contacted many of these players and told him these guys were interested in representing Jamaica. He did say that they need local players in the squad to play because they also have roles in local clubs and selling them on brings the Federation funding. Hence why only players from certain local clubs make the team. It is for them to be sold. The Federation doesn't have sponsors because they are known for wasting funds. If you notice Cedella Marley, Bob Marley's daughter, runs the female team. She gets the sponsors and there is no quota system. Hence why they excel and the men don't. The women's team have now extended their reach to The UK so we have a lot of UK born players in the squad now as opposed to earlier where it was mainly The USA and Canada. Their next goal is getting Lauren James to commit.
I so badly want to be able to see a Jamaican run in a tournament. Its frustrating because with our Western reach we would have a better team than USA. I understand the need for funding etc. We need a billionaire to just come in and drop some M's
 

Varun1

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Source? How come he hasnt signed for any other prem sides?
If he's good enough for West Ham, why aint Watford etc in for him?

English and free and all.

You're talking nonsense
Sure. And you're talking so much sense.
 

Varun1

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No one knows why he couldn't get games from then. If his talent didn't translate then he'd have never looked that talented on that stage but he did.
Because Sam wanted him to sign up with his agent. And when he refused, the cnut alienated Ravel.

Clearly the lad is/was extremely weak mentally and was a bit of an idiot, some people overcome that mental weakness and the leeches around them, while others don't.

That's the sad reality with Ravel.

It's time we stop this though, he's not good enough for us anymore.
 

noelyman

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I think this whole Ravel Morrison debate which polarises so many fans is interesting because people seem to see it as black and white. If he was good enough he'd be doing it now. If he wasn't good enough to make the grade. Why did Fergie, Crerand, McGuinness, Rio, Neville etc all thing he was nailed on?

Ravel Morrison was undeniably one of the brightest young stars in United's history (of that there can be no argument). Too many pros that know much more than caf experts have said so. That he also has largely wasted his talent it also undeniable. You don't get to the receive the plaudits he did at youth level for United if you're not talented. So to then make precious little of a professional career is if nothing else very sad but also tells you that something else was going on. It wasn't injuries and I agree with a previous poster who said instead of feeling sorry for Morrison he feels more sorry for players whose careers were cut short by injury. Again no question.

But it's not about feeling sorry for him. I certainly don't, because he's been blessed with footballing abilities most of us could only dream of which he's wasted. But of course it's a shame to see supreme talent go to waste. Especially when it was nurtured at our club. But that's not to say he could or should be playing for United now. That ship has sailed and that he isn't currently good enough or will ever be good enough for United is not really in question. He isn't.

But let's not rewrite the rule book and say he wasn't talented enough because a whole host of more knowledgeable football people than you or I all agree he was. And let's not forget that when Sam Allardyce described him as 'the biggest waste of talent he'd ever seen' he wasn't talking about a player in the youth team. He was talking about a premier league player.

But some of us myself included simply lament that he was unable to 'turn up on time for training', 'stay out of trouble with the police' , rumours of thefts of valuables from players changing rooms etc. These are huge things that of course would stop a player being selected to play or even remain at a club. These and some less publicised but clearly existing mental issues are what has done for Morrison. Not his talent. Because that he had in spades.
 
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shamans

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He never looked talented at senior level though - thats the point!!

He played well in three West Ham games, before not getting in the team and getting loaned out and underwhelming wherever he went on loan (Birmingham i think??) and ever since.
I have to say I think you're trying to come across contrarian with the whole "he never had it in him" and I'll even give you that for players like Macheda or Chris eagles but ravel was a different case.

All professionals at the club were sure he'd be something special. This wasn't just some kid doing a bunch of tricks with his feet, he was gifted at many facets of the game. Unless you're more knowledgeable than uniteds coaching staff including Rio and Sir Alex, you can't say he never had it.

He grew up in terrible circumstances and some people simply don't have the work ethic.
 

R_Cubed

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I so badly want to be able to see a Jamaican run in a tournament. Its frustrating because with our Western reach we would have a better team than USA. I understand the need for funding etc. We need a billionaire to just come in and drop some M's
Let me make this very clear to you. The Jamaican diaspora especially in North America are more than willing and capable of funding all the football programs on the Island and building several academies on the island. What they have asked for is transparency on how the money is spent. The Federation does not want to do thay so they will continue their nefarious activities while our football continues to stagnate. Cedella got funding for the women's team for The World Cup in France in 2019 and the Federation were sending our ladies on 5-6 connecting flights on economy while Federation heads and their friends were taking single flights in first class. Cedella Marley was hopping mad! UK greats have offered to coach several youth teams and the national teams for free and all have been turned down. Why do you think that they don't want Ian Wright and Andy Cole coaching and helping our youngsters? Guess who is the most successful Jamaican coach ever? I'll give you a hint he played for Wngland
Wow, that team would even do well at the world cup.
It would. However, the Federation is corrupt. I will show you how corrupt they are. I just finished watching Jamaica's 2nd group game at The Gold Cup. One of our starting strikers was awful in the first game but he scored. Fans still demanded that he was dropped because he needs 5-6 chances to score one goal but he's young and plays in Belgium. He started this second game. We are keeping Andre Gray (Watford) on the bench. A man who has scored in 2 of his last 3 games for Jamaica. Including a goal in a 1-1 draw with Serbia. A game everyone thought we'd be beaten 6-0 in. We dropped Jamal Lowe (Swansea City) from the squad though he has scored in every game he has played for us. In the game today the starting striker wasted 5 chances! 5! Including a header where he was alone in the 6 yard box unmarked and a one on one with the keeper with no defenders in sight. Why is he playing ahead of Andre Gray and Jamal Lowe? Because members of The Federation are to benefit financially if he excels in this tournament and several English clubs are interested in buying him. So they refuse to pick better strikers like Antonio, Roofe, Lowe etc so they can pick inferior players that they can sell and make money from. This young man played 81 minutes! Andre Gray got 9 minutes and did more in those 9 minutes than he did. In fact the Jamaican crowd booed the starting striker for much of the second half and the coach was too scared to take him off because The Federation heads might fire him.
 
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Champ

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I have to say I think you're trying to come across contrarian with the whole "he never had it in him" and I'll even give you that for players like Macheda or Chris eagles but ravel was a different case.

All professionals at the club were sure he'd be something special. This wasn't just some kid doing a bunch of tricks with his feet, he was gifted at many facets of the game. Unless you're more knowledgeable than uniteds coaching staff including Rio and Sir Alex, you can't say he never had it.

He grew up in terrible circumstances and some people simply don't have the work ethic.
When has he showed it at senior level?

It's not contrarian to highlight what has actually happened.
 

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I think this whole Ravel Morrison debate which polarises so many fans is interesting because people seem to see it as black and white. If he was good enough he'd be doing it now. If he wasn't good enough to make the grade. Why did Fergie, Crerand, McGuinness, Rio, Neville etc all thing he was nailed on?

Ravel Morrison was undeniably one of the brightest young stars in United's history (of that there can be no argument). Too many pros that know much more than caf experts have said so. That he also has largely wasted his talent it also undeniable. You don't get to the receive the plaudits he did at youth level for United if you're not talented. So to then make precious little of a professional career is if nothing else very sad but also tells you that something else was going on. It wasn't injuries and I agree with a previous poster who said instead of feeling sorry for Morrison he feels more sorry for players whose careers were cut short by injury. Again no question.

But let's not rewrite the rule book and say he wasn't talented enough because a whole host of more knowledgeable football people than you or I all agree he was. And let's not forget that when Sam Allardyce described him as 'the biggest waste of talent he'd ever seen' he wasn't talking about a player in the youth team. He was talking about a premier league player.
Nailed it.
 

Varun1

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I quoted a guy talking about Allardyce and West Ham. You responded to it


Atleast I have facts on my side.

He doesnt have any offers from any Premier League sides, he didnt get to play for Sheff Utd even. He's a myth
Look up the West Ham story mate before going on about facts. I also said the West Ham situation was because of Allardyce, I never even mentioned other clubs or Sheffield United.
 

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I quoted a guy talking about Allardyce and West Ham. You responded to it


Atleast I have facts on my side.

He doesnt have any offers from any Premier League sides, he didnt get to play for Sheff Utd even. He's a myth
And i responded to that; Allardyce did literally force Ravel to sign with his agent or not play him.
 

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Let me make this very clear to you. The Jamaican diaspora especially in North America are more than willing and capable of funding all the football programs on the Island and building several academies on the island. What they have asked for is transparency on how the money is spent. The Federation does not want to do thay so they will continue their nefarious activities while our football continues to stagnate. Cedella got funding for the women's team for The World Cup in France in 2019 and the Federation were sending our ladies on 5-6 connecting flights on economy while Federation heads and their friends were taking single flights in first class. Cedella Marley was hopping mad! UK greats have offered to coach several youth teams and the national teams for free and all have been turned down. Why do you think that they don't want Ian Wright and Andy Cole coaching and helping our youngsters? Guess who is the most successful Jamaican coach ever? I'll give you a hint he played for Wngland

It would. However, the Federation is corrupt. I will show you how corrupt they are. I just finished watching Jamaica's 2nd group game at The Gold Cup. One of our starting strikers was awful in the first game but he scored. Fans still demanded that he was dropped because he needs 5-6 chances to score one goal but he's young and plays in Belgium. He started this second game. We are keeping Andre Gray (Watford) on the bench. A man who has scored in 2 of his last 3 games for Jamaica. Including a goal in a 1-1 draw with Serbia. A game everyone thought we'd be beaten 6-0 in. We dropped Jamal Lowe (Swansea City) from the squad though he has scored in every game he has played for us. In the game today the starting striker wasted 5 chances! 5! Including a header where he was alone in the 6 yard box unmarked and a one on one with the keeper with no defenders in sight. Why is he playing ahead of Andre Gray and Jamal Lowe? Because members of The Federation are to benefit financially if he excels in this tournament and several English clubs are interested in buying him. So they refuse to pick better strikers like Antonio, Roofe, Lowe etc so they can pick inferior players that they can sell and make money from. This young man played 81 minutes! Andre Gray got 9 minutes and did more in those 9 minutes than he did. In fact the Jamaican crowd booed the starting striker for much of the second half and the coach was too scared to take him off because The Federation heads might fire him.
shambles
 

shamans

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Just want to see Scholes hit a volley.
When has he showed it at senior level?

It's not contrarian to highlight what has actually happened.
There are countless YouTube videos. I think there's no need to be an intellect about this and claim he never would have made it and everyone else just bought in the hype.

Even in sporadic senior appearances it's clear as daylight how talented he was. He had a natural gift he didn't capitalize on. Period
 

noelyman

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There are countless YouTube videos. I think there's no need to be an intellect about this and claim he never would have made it and everyone else just bought in the hype.

Even in sporadic senior appearances it's clear as daylight how talented he was. He had a natural gift he didn't capitalize on. Period
Exactly!!
 

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There are countless YouTube videos. I think there's no need to be an intellect about this and claim he never would have made it and everyone else just bought in the hype.

Even in sporadic senior appearances it's clear as daylight how talented he was. He had a natural gift he didn't capitalize on. Period
He can’t get games in farmer leagues. He scored one decent goal for West Ham

If you don’t prove yourself at senior level then all this talent is subjective, it means absolutely nothing.

Look at Chong, he’s probably done as much as Ravel at senior level and he’s bang average if we are honest. Talent at youth level means very little.
 

Champ

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There are countless YouTube videos. I think there's no need to be an intellect about this and claim he never would have made it and everyone else just bought in the hype.

Even in sporadic senior appearances it's clear as daylight how talented he was. He had a natural gift he didn't capitalize on. Period
h yes, football condensed down to ten minute video footage of his best bits.
Glad that proves he had talent.

Christ, I bet even Ali Dia has a YouTube video of his highlights :lol:

What a ludicrous statement you just made
 

shamans

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Just want to see Scholes hit a volley.
He can’t get games in farmer leagues. He scored one decent goal for West Ham

If you don’t prove yourself at senior level then all this talent is subjective, it means absolutely nothing.

Look at Chong, he’s probably done as much as Ravel at senior level and he’s bang average if we are honest. Talent at youth level means very little.
If you want to argue based on what's happened and use that as a rule then go ahead. Ravel was not a rule but an exception.

He's not getting farmer league games because he never developed on his talent it does not question the gift he had.

Anyone with half an understanding of football can see that from one goal or five minutes of play.
 

shamans

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Just want to see Scholes hit a volley.
h yes, football condensed down to ten minute video footage of his best bits.
Glad that proves he had talent.

Christ, I bet even Ali Dia has a YouTube video of his highlights :lol:

What a ludicrous statement you just made
Right while you saw him at the side lines at Carrington. For me even a 20 second clip is enough. Some of us understand footy.
 

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This thread basically boils down to people saying because he hasn't made it as a top level footballer, he was never any good in the first place. He never had potential world class talent even though a lot in our club from management to players thought he was one of the best young players they'd ever seen.
That is an odd thing to me. Do all talented people achieve success in professional life? Not necessarily. There's a lot more to professional success than mere talent. You need drive, ambition, a good head on your shoulders and a supportive structure around you - all of which he seemed to lack. Why is this even such a contentious topic?
 

Champ

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Right while you saw him at the side lines at Carrington. For me even a 20 second clip is enough. Some of us understand footy.
If you are basing someone's talent on a YouTube video then I'd start questioning your understanding of the game!!

Quick question, when did Ravel actually show his talent at senior level? Was it with Otersunds or maybe Atlas, or maybe the four games he played for Den Haag??

Just face it, he hasn't showed any of his talent at senior level, that is undeniable, and you can keep screaming until your face is blue but you know it's the truth :lol:
 

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If you want to argue based on what's happened and use that as a rule then go ahead. Ravel was not a rule but an exception.

He's not getting farmer league games because he never developed on his talent it does not question the gift he had.

Anyone with half an understanding of football can see that from one goal or five minutes of play.
Huh? Surely that’s the only thing we can use to measure his ability. Unless we are going to pretend he should have been the new Messi?

I have been a subscriber to MUTV forever and during his time in the youth teams I was an avid watcher of the youth games, he was in a very talented group including Pogba and was a very talented lad, nothing more.

The fact he couldn’t transfer any of that ability to the professional game playing against men is the barometer here.
And it’s not becuase he has a hard upbringing, most legends of the past had a tough upbringing, it made them better for it not worse.
 

Champ

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Huh? Surely that’s the only thing we can use to measure his ability. Unless we are going to pretend he should have been the new Messi?

I have been a subscriber to MUTV forever and during his time in the youth teams I was an avid watcher of the youth games, he was in a very talented group including Pogba and was a very talented lad, nothing more.

The fact he couldn’t transfer any of that ability to the professional game playing against men is the barometer here.
And it’s not becuase he has a hard upbringing, most legends of the past had a tough upbringing, it made them better for it not worse.
Yeah but he did once watch a YouTube video which clearly showed Ravel being amazing so that trump's any actual evidence....
 

dinostar77

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Ok for argument sake since I want to know how highly he is rated here at the CAF since you guys know more than me.


IF and only IF Ravel, promises to work super hard in trainings, give 200% every time he is on the field be it in training or games and also promises never ever ever to go back to his bad ways, will you guys still take him for one last swansong?

Just curious....
No because he wouldn't be anywhere near the standard required.

Bear with me here, im gonna use football manager Potential Ability (PA) and Current Ability (CA) as an example, as it makes sense.

So Revel when he was 17/18 had a PA that would be somewhere in the 170 -200 point region. For reference a player in the 190-200 region PA is one of the best in the world.

His CA at 17/18 might have been 70. A PL player in average being 120 CA points out of 200.

As he didnt play regularly when he was young he missed out on vital match time to help develop him towards his PA numbers. The PA starts to come down year by year. His CA isnt rising as high as it should because he's missing his vital first football, not training as he should, being distracted by off the field stuff.

So now at 27/28 his PA may have dropped to 100 and his CA may only be 80. Basically he has squandered his potential develop. Hence theoretically if he came to Utd he wouldnt be anywhere near good enough for the first team and probably not the reserves.

Hope that made sense.
 

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The myth, the legend... he looked talented but so do many youngsters. Sometimes, they are just more developed than others so they look impressive. Once the everyone else catches up, they look just decent. He seems to be that case, topped by a difficult background and personality. He really blew he career big time, I just hope he made enough money
 

James Peril

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Mate, exactly. Let me show you what Jamaica's team is without quotas.

GK Andre Blake
RB James Justin/Kyle Walker-Peters
CB Ben Godfrey
CB Mason Holgate
LB Kemar Lawrence
DM Ravel Morrison/Isaac Hayden
DM Daniel Johnson/Morgan Gibbs-White
AM Bobby Decordova-Reid
RW Nathan Redmond
LW Leon Bailey
ST Michail Antonio

Add to this Jamaal Lascelles, Dwight McNeal, Emile Smith-Rowe*** Unlikely for now.
The fans in the live laughed at the official and he was embarassed because with social media people dm and contacted many of these players and told him these guys were interested in representing Jamaica. He did say that they need local players in the squad to play because they also have roles in local clubs and selling them on brings the Federation funding. Hence why only players from certain local clubs make the team. It is for them to be sold. The Federation doesn't have sponsors because they are known for wasting funds. If you notice Cedella Marley, Bob Marley's daughter, runs the female team. She gets the sponsors and there is no quota system. Hence why they excel and the men don't. The women's team have now extended their reach to The UK so we have a lot of UK born players in the squad now as opposed to earlier where it was mainly The USA and Canada. Their next goal is getting Lauren James to commit.
To be honest, that team is pretty shit and wouldn’t get out of the group stages in any tournament, like suggested above.
 

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This thread basically boils down to people saying because he hasn't made it as a top level footballer, he was never any good in the first place. He never had potential world class talent even though a lot in our club from management to players thought he was one of the best young players they'd ever seen.
That is an odd thing to me. Do all talented people achieve success in professional life? Not necessarily. There's a lot more to professional success than mere talent. You need drive, ambition, a good head on your shoulders and a supportive structure around you - all of which he seemed to lack. Why is this even such a contentious topic?
I think it is very likely that he never had near as much talent as we thought (by we, I mean United, I have posts back then saying good riddance). Thing is there were many other talented players with as bad attitude as him (Cassano and Balotelli to name a couple) who made it, did pretty well for themselves and were bordering world-class (at least Cassano). Yet, this guy couldn’t even make in his one-hundred chances, not even in farmers leagues.

He was the best United young player, same as how Phil Jones was going to become our greatest ever player, and how Welbeck and Cleverley were as good as Thiago Alcantara. On other words, Fergie was drunk when he said those things.
 

Varun1

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Huh? Surely that’s the only thing we can use to measure his ability. Unless we are going to pretend he should have been the new Messi?

I have been a subscriber to MUTV forever and during his time in the youth teams I was an avid watcher of the youth games, he was in a very talented group including Pogba and was a very talented lad, nothing more.

The fact he couldn’t transfer any of that ability to the professional game playing against men is the barometer here.
And it’s not becuase he has a hard upbringing, most legends of the past had a tough upbringing, it made them better for it not worse.
People are allowed opinions and it's fine not to rate Ravel, but can we not downplay this aspect of his life please.

Everyone deals with things differently. The legends of the past became legends because they were better at dealing with things and rose above it.
 

Varun1

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I think it is very likely that he never had near as much talent as we thought (by we, I mean United, I have posts back then saying good riddance). Thing is there were many other talented players with as bad attitude as him (Cassano and Balotelli to name a couple) who made it, did pretty well for themselves and were bordering world-class (at least Cassano). Yet, this guy couldn’t even make in his one-hundred chances, not even in farmers leagues.

He was the best United young player, same as how Phil Jones was going to become our greatest ever player, and how Welbeck and Cleverley were as good as Thiago Alcantara. On other words, Fergie was drunk when he said those things.
You do realise how injuries affected his career? Probably even Welbeck's.
 

R_Cubed

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To be honest, that team is pretty shit and wouldn’t get out of the group stages in any tournament, like suggested above.
What makes YOUR opinion more valid than anyone else's? That team would be just as good as Sweden, Ukraine and The Czech Republic who all made it to the knockout stages of The Euros. In fact, The Czech Republic and The Ukraine went as far as The Quarterfinals. Add Demarai Gray and Ivan Toney to the mix and the team is even stronger. It isn't elite but it is good enough for a knockout stage appearance.
 

Revan

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You do realise how injuries affected his career? Probably even Welbeck's.
He was mediocre even before his injuries. Just heart and engine but not even functional brain cell on him.

Even Fergie almost never played him as CB. It was even in pitbull role to man-mark some players, or as a backup RB. Nevertheless, he was never going to become United’s best ever player even if he never got injured.