He's the most naturally gifted English player I've ever seen (I'm only 19 so I never really saw Gascoigne), fingers crossed he gets his head right and shows the world what he can do. If he does break into the first team I have a feeling he'll start as a winger, a bit like Iniesta did for Barca, then he'll move more centrally into the role behind the striker or as part of a midfield three.
Ravel Morrison (Only football related)
- Thread starter Pogue Mahone
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At the same age Giggs was a regular in the first team. I'd say it's quite easy to imagine he was much better.
That's a very simplistic view. There are many factors actually involved.
Giggs was stunningly good at a very young age, but it doesn't mean much in the long run. Beckham was on loan at PNE at the age of 20.
The game has changed so much since then, just look at the difference in squad sizes now compared to back then.
There are but if Morrison was nearly as good as Giggs he'd be making inroads into the first team. Especially when you consider how few options we have in central midfield. We weren't exactly lacking a left winger when Giggs broke through.
What's your point? Morrison can't currently get in the squad when rotation is much more prevelant. Giggs ousted Lee Sharpe. This isn't a mark on Morrison as a footballer but the comparison isn't even close to being earned yet.
I agree. Morrison has plenty of time.
Morrison would probably be in the squad right now if his temperament wasn't in question so much. I'd like to see him given a shot this season though.
How can you ignore a players mentality?
He wouldn't be a consideration because he's not mature enough, he's had his problems and lets be fair. We've introduced a winger in Cleverly and he wasn't doing to badly up until his injury
There is football being discussed in the Ravel thread?He's not good enough yet. Whether that's due to attitude or mentality only the manager can say. Regardless of what the reason is he isn't as good as Giggs was as he had the full package, ability and talent, which is the point that was being made.
At the same age Giggs was the better player...
That's not the point, there's much more strength in depth now which totally negates the fact that we now use rotation. As outlined by others a player's mentality is very important too, Ravel certainly has the ability for me to be playing in the Premier League but he doesn't have the maturity. I can't comment how good Giggs was at this age but players all develop at different rates, I think we can all accept that Ravel is an exceptional talent, perhaps even a once in a generation talent.
I can comment. Giggs was better. He was young player of the year at that age. This shouldn't even be a debate. This is not a slight on Morrison.
Fair enough, I'd take it as massive compliment and definite testament to his immense talent that Morrison is being compared to one of our greatest ever players.
I think the only reason Morrison has not broken into the first team yet is because of matters off the field.
I dont know how he will cope mentally but skill wise he would have no problem
I don't think you can compare the 92 team/squad to what we have now. Back then, we were a big club now we're a giant. Giggs was better then what we had in the first team. Morrison still has to mature and that's enough by itself not to be considered. It's not a like for like situation and we're talking about a Giggs 20 years later...which always distorts things. No doubt Giggs was a better person at the same age, though you suspect he might have been a bit sneaky now and then lol.
Yeah this is a great point, I made a post similar to this in the newbs. Comparative to 92, the game has changed so much, there's so much scrutiny on everything players do, we can watch every game and judge every single little thing a player does. Before you had to go to the game to do such a thing, because other than that you were relying on MoTD. Since Giggs has started, the whole Sky Sports thing blew up and the attitude has changed significantly, there is a lot more pressure and a lot more money in the game.
Back then we've heard stories of how the youth players had to clean the senior players boots and stuff, nowadays you have 18/19 year olds on ridiculous wages who wouldn't dream of doing such a thing. Let us not forget back when Giggs was breaking through, finishing second was seen as progress of sorts and we'd be delighted to win just one league, nowadays anything else but 1st is seen as a failure. We can win games but if we don't play well, this place can go into a right sulk. There is no innocence or common sense in the game now, youngsters need more time to develop away from the spotlight because if he plays bad he'll be written off straight away, look at De Gea for example. The young players we do have playing for us seem to have that maturity already, Ravel doesn't have this so we need to wait.
I suspected all discussion would have ended with this.
I suppose part of being the better player includes having the right mindset, Ravel will get there.
I obviously didn't see Giggs at this age but Ravel is brilliant so you have to accept (esp with how his career panned out) that Giggs very possibly was better.
At the end of the day some coaches didn't think Gary Neville would make it....so what we have are a ton of opinions. Hands up who watched Giggs when he was an academy player? Reserve player? There are always people but again it's opion and we're comparing two different times. If Giggs was breaking through now, would he get in the team as a winger? I don't think Giggs would automatically get past Nani, Valencia, Park etc. People would say, 'needs to put weight on', as they tend to do. It's really about opportunities and Giggs took his.
There are so many variables. People could argue a number of things. Even if someones a better player at 18 say, it really doesn't matter now but down the line when we can access who was the better player when it actually mattered. It would be something if Morrison could have a better career then Giggs. It's nearly impossible but when you have a natural ability and a stage and youth on your side, it's up to you to write your own history.
There are so many variables. People could argue a number of things. Even if someones a better player at 18 say, it really doesn't matter now but down the line when we can access who was the better player when it actually mattered. It would be something if Morrison could have a better career then Giggs. It's nearly impossible but when you have a natural ability and a stage and youth on your side, it's up to you to write your own history.
Giggs got past Lee Sharpe and believe it or not Sharpe was better than Park and Valencia.
Tbf, Giggsy did catch a break with Sharpe getting injured and then contracting meningitis. Not downplaying the talent and promise he must have shown to even be in that position at such a young age, and not forgetting how lightweight he was(well still is), and coming up against big fullbacks, not afraid to put in a tackle.
Come on now.
Giggs was certainly better than Morrison is right now. His mindset was always better which meant that at this age he had a better chance and he would develop quicker.
They are very very different players but remember although Morrison is no slowcoach Giggs had blistering pace! When Giggs used to be on the ball, the crowd would quite literally gasp.
In my view Morrison obviously has off-field issues, but on the pitch he has a bit of the Rooney about him in the sense that he generally does the right thing. You couldn't call him selfish. He is definitely a team player, he takes care in his passing, dribbling and shooting.
I agree that he could be in the first team squad right now. He wouldn't be automatically given a starting place of course.
I believe:
1. If Morisson had Giggs' mindset back then he'd be in the first team squad now.
2. I believe that SAF is holding him back because the expectations are so huge, that should he fail or be written off in one game there may be question marks about his ability to come back. Whereas Morrison has always had the confidence to go past players, to try the unexpected and often succeed. This wouldn't happen as much in the PL and there may be question marks about his mental fragility.
3. Also believe that SAF is doing the right thing and just taking things slowly. Youth team, reserve team and wait until he is able to have an impact on the reserve team before stepping him up to the first team. He's already had first team action remember (1 minute!)
4. I also believe he'd have gone on loan to further his development if his mindset was more developed/more concrete!
The game is more advanced now than when Giggs came through. Technical players were not that common (especially coming from Britain) so defenders are now much more clued up. So give Morrison the time he needs to develop.
Giggs was certainly better than Morrison is right now. His mindset was always better which meant that at this age he had a better chance and he would develop quicker.
They are very very different players but remember although Morrison is no slowcoach Giggs had blistering pace! When Giggs used to be on the ball, the crowd would quite literally gasp.
In my view Morrison obviously has off-field issues, but on the pitch he has a bit of the Rooney about him in the sense that he generally does the right thing. You couldn't call him selfish. He is definitely a team player, he takes care in his passing, dribbling and shooting.
I agree that he could be in the first team squad right now. He wouldn't be automatically given a starting place of course.
I believe:
1. If Morisson had Giggs' mindset back then he'd be in the first team squad now.
2. I believe that SAF is holding him back because the expectations are so huge, that should he fail or be written off in one game there may be question marks about his ability to come back. Whereas Morrison has always had the confidence to go past players, to try the unexpected and often succeed. This wouldn't happen as much in the PL and there may be question marks about his mental fragility.
3. Also believe that SAF is doing the right thing and just taking things slowly. Youth team, reserve team and wait until he is able to have an impact on the reserve team before stepping him up to the first team. He's already had first team action remember (1 minute!)
4. I also believe he'd have gone on loan to further his development if his mindset was more developed/more concrete!
The game is more advanced now than when Giggs came through. Technical players were not that common (especially coming from Britain) so defenders are now much more clued up. So give Morrison the time he needs to develop.
Nobody posted his goal for the reserves yet? Screamer.
Its on the page before this one as a photobucket link.
But Giggs was better then Sharpe
and then Sharpe kept getting injuries anyway and lost his way somewhat. I remember Sharpe, and Andrei and all that but it's a different game these days. I mean player valuations have changed. If you permit me to give them values - would a kid put a 15million pound player and a 10 million pound player on the bench? That's a completely different world to 92 in itself. I used the wrong word in todays game. It's not so much player more 'asset'.I wish some of you would read history...
Sharpe started getting his injury problems seasons after Giggs broke into the team.
Giggs at 18 was a better player than any other winger I have ever seen...only Best earns better reviews back in 1963 and 1964.
If he was breaking into the first team now he would be streets ahead of Young, Park, Nani and Valencia...
Unless you watched Giggs back in the late 1980's and early 1990's then you really can't get how good he was.
Morrison is a very talented lad but not in Giggs class.
Sharpe started getting his injury problems seasons after Giggs broke into the team.
Giggs at 18 was a better player than any other winger I have ever seen...only Best earns better reviews back in 1963 and 1964.
If he was breaking into the first team now he would be streets ahead of Young, Park, Nani and Valencia...
Unless you watched Giggs back in the late 1980's and early 1990's then you really can't get how good he was.
Morrison is a very talented lad but not in Giggs class.
They guy was class, as was Lee Sharpe when fit and available during the early 90's, but I couldn't say a teenage Giggs was streets ahead of what Nani is now as he is probably the best winger in the world, although obviously Giggs at that age was well ahead of what Nani was in his teenage years.
Trying to compare Ravel to Giggs is impossible. I think it's probably a fairer question to ask is if Ravel would have made it into the class of 92? I think it's fair to say yes, and he'd probably have made it 7 first team regulars as opposed to the 6 we got out of it. You look back at the game in 92, our first team squad was probably no more than 16 or 17 players, compared to today when we have to name 18 players per game.
Whilst the increase in subs available to be selected from would have created more chances for youngsters back then to break thoguh, in todays game where by we've got squads of 25, it's increasingly harder for a player to break through the ranks at a club like United. Giggs was a freak, in that in any day and age he'd have broken through, there was no holding him back at Ravel's age. Even today, he'd be forcing his way through into the first team.
Ravel will make it, and I think once he gets a few games under his belt, will force his way into the squad, but he needs some games in the CC or FA cup to force his way in.
Whilst the increase in subs available to be selected from would have created more chances for youngsters back then to break thoguh, in todays game where by we've got squads of 25, it's increasingly harder for a player to break through the ranks at a club like United. Giggs was a freak, in that in any day and age he'd have broken through, there was no holding him back at Ravel's age. Even today, he'd be forcing his way through into the first team.
Ravel will make it, and I think once he gets a few games under his belt, will force his way into the squad, but he needs some games in the CC or FA cup to force his way in.
Yes he was, but Sharpe was better than Valencia and Park so what makes you think Giggs wouldn't break through now. If you think Alex Ferguson worries about price tag then you're a fool. Have a look at Welbeck starting while Berbatov watched for evidence of that.But Giggs was better then Sharpe
I hope he'll start next week in the Carling Cup.
Great stuff.
it was a great strike. still dont know if he's ready though. He's definitely knocking on the door with a performance like that.
Morrison can probably match Giggs' skills with the ball - but not his movement and pace - that's where Giggs was out of the ordinary. He was just lightning quick and with supreme balance
I can see why these comparisons are taking place but to be fair to Morrison it's like comparing Giggs to Scholes.Morrison's best position will probably end up playing through the middle.
I know we're comparing ability at respective ages and Giggs was way ahead but the more realistic one would be with Scholes...only my opinion
Morrison is alittle like Giggs in his latter years as a central midfielder. The driving runs, he's not obsessively spraying the ball around the pitch. Plenty of smart touches, good control. This kind of discussions are so incredibly lobsided it's not even worth it. At the end of the day, ones at the back end of his career and the other is making his way.
He's back on Twitter, and in fine form.
Its clearly not much of a debate but Ravel does remind of Giggs in terms of how he covers the ground. At full pace he still seems to be gliding along, like Giggs his control at pace is the main factor...he'd be up there with the best at the club in this regard already imo.