Rayan Cherki - Lyon player

BalanceUnAutreJoint

Full Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2017
Messages
1,522



On the ball he's already one of the very best players in the world and his advanced statistics showcase that pretty well, in the very top percentile as far as dribbling, key passes, shot creating actions, (and whatever creative statistic you can think of) are concerned. His assists number is also quite unfortunate because he's vastly vastly outperforming that in term of expected assists.
As far as technical ability goes, I legitimately believe he's the most gifted player since Neymar JR. Pinpoint accuracy on longpasses, endless creativity, can receive the ball in any angle, two-footed to the point where not even Lyon fans can agree on whether he's a leftie or a righty

But he's also a player who was perhaps too talented for his own good in youth categories, which led to him taking the habit of being quite lazy off the ball. He's been slowly improving that aspect of his game but even right now playing him as a winger is a huge risk because there's bound to be a point in the game where he'll leave the opposing fullback or winger unchecked. He mostly works better as a 10 or false 9 due to the fact that his defensive weaknesses aren't as much of an issue at these positions.

Overall I think he'd greatly benefit from joining a club with a more demanding dressing room and higher standards that can push him to train and work harder on the pitch. He can also definitely improve physically. It's pretty clear he has a few pounds he needs to lose in order to gain a bit more quickness. He's already gliding past players as of right now but if he ever gets that extra bit of burst he'll pretty much be impossible to defend against.
 

pocco

loco
Joined
Mar 17, 2010
Messages
22,407
Location
Keep a clean shit tomorrow, United is my final bus



On the ball he's already one of the very best players in the world and his advanced statistics showcase that pretty well, in the very top percentile as far as dribbling, key passes, shot creating actions, (and whatever creative statistic you can think of) are concerned. His assists number is also quite unfortunate because he's vastly vastly outperforming that in term of expected assists.
As far as technical ability goes, I legitimately believe he's the most gifted player since Neymar JR. Pinpoint accuracy on longpasses, endless creativity, can receive the ball in any angle, two-footed to the point where not even Lyon fans can agree on whether he's a leftie or a righty

But he's also a player who was perhaps too talented for his own good in youth categories, which led to him taking the habit of being quite lazy off the ball. He's been slowly improving that aspect of his game but even right now playing him as a winger is a huge risk because there's bound to be a point in the game where he'll leave the opposing fullback or winger unchecked. He mostly works better as a 10 or false 9 due to the fact that his defensive weaknesses aren't as much of an issue at these positions.

Overall I think he'd greatly benefit from joining a club with a more demanding dressing room and higher standards that can push him to train and work harder on the pitch. He can also definitely improve physically. It's pretty clear he has a few pounds he needs to lose in order to gain a bit more quickness. He's already gliding past players as of right now but if he ever gets that extra bit of burst he'll pretty much be impossible to defend against.
How does he stack up against Mason Mount, though?
 

WeePat

Full Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2015
Messages
17,383
Supports
Chelsea
Literally zero links to Chelsea that I've seen. It's just Chelsea fans online who have taken a liken to him and are trying to manifest this into a Chelsea transfer. When you search his name on twitter you'd be forgiven for thinking Chelsea are close to announcing him :)
 

Amadaeus

Pochémon Fan Club Chairman
Joined
May 8, 2013
Messages
9,234
Location
Amongst footballing managerial 'Gods'
Literally zero links to Chelsea that I've seen. It's just Chelsea fans online who have taken a liken to him and are trying to manifest this into a Chelsea transfer. When you search his name on twitter you'd be forgiven for thinking Chelsea are close to announcing him :)
There has been some links albeit not tier 1. I can see it manifesting shortly.

Seems that chelsea has been baiting PSG with players they have been interested in. First it was Ugarte being a smokescreen for Caceido and now it veigas being a smokescreen for Cherki. Pochettino needs more than 1 ram option and I find it hard to see madueke being only good ram going into next season. Unless angelo impresses Pochettino

On the ball he's already one of the very best players in the world and his advanced statistics showcase that pretty well, in the very top percentile as far as dribbling, key passes, shot creating actions, (and whatever creative statistic you can think of) are concerned. His assists number is also quite unfortunate because he's vastly vastly outperforming that in term of expected assists.

As far as technical ability goes, I legitimately believe he's the most gifted player since Neymar JR. Pinpoint accuracy on longpasses, endless creativity, can receive the ball in any angle, two-footed to the point where not even Lyon fans can agree on whether he's a leftie or a righty



But he's also a player who was perhaps too talented for his own good in youth categories, which led to him taking the habit of being quite lazy off the ball. He's been slowly improving that aspect of his game but even right now playing him as a winger is a huge risk because there's bound to be a point in the game where he'll leave the opposing fullback or winger unchecked. He mostly works better as a 10 or false 9 due to the fact that his defensive weaknesses aren't as much of an issue at these positions.



Overall I think he'd greatly benefit from joining a club with a more demanding dressing room and higher standards that can push him to train and work harder on the pitch. He can also definitely improve physically. It's pretty clear he has a few pounds he needs to lose in order to gain a bit more quickness. He's already gliding past players as of right now but if he ever gets that extra bit of burst he'll pretty much be impossible to defend against.
Surprised he isn't being monitored by other big clubs this summer
 

DWelbz19

Correctly predicted Portugal to win Euro 2016
Joined
Oct 31, 2012
Messages
34,026
Literally zero links to Chelsea that I've seen. It's just Chelsea fans online who have taken a liken to him and are trying to manifest this into a Chelsea transfer. When you search his name on twitter you'd be forgiven for thinking Chelsea are close to announcing him :)
I thought the giggle was more at Pochettino's lover bumping this thread for that reason
 

WeePat

Full Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2015
Messages
17,383
Supports
Chelsea
I thought the giggle was more at Pochettino's lover bumping this thread for that reason
Fair enough then :lol:

I thought he was saying ‘yet another Chelsea signing huh?’
 

WeePat

Full Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2015
Messages
17,383
Supports
Chelsea
There has been some links albeit not tier 1. I can see it manifesting shortly.

Seems that chelsea has been baiting PSG with players they have been interested in. First it was Ugarte being a smokescreen for Caceido and now it veigas being a smokescreen for Cherki. Pochettino needs more than 1 ram option and I find it hard to see madueke being only good ram going into next season. Unless angelo impresses Pochettino

You might be right, as this guy from the Guardian is saying Chelsea want him.

 

Amadaeus

Pochémon Fan Club Chairman
Joined
May 8, 2013
Messages
9,234
Location
Amongst footballing managerial 'Gods'
You might be right, as this guy from the Guardian is saying Chelsea want him.

That would give Madueke good competition in that ram role. Pochettino will have a more fluid attack to work with if they sign Cherki

Cherki/Madueke/Angelo - Nkunku/Cherki/Casadei - Madruyk/sterling/Cherki
-------------------------------------- Jackson/Borja/Nkunku
 

Pogue Mahone

The caf's Camus.
Joined
Feb 22, 2006
Messages
133,905
Location
"like a man in silk pyjamas shooting pigeons
Literally zero links to Chelsea that I've seen. It's just Chelsea fans online who have taken a liken to him and are trying to manifest this into a Chelsea transfer. When you search his name on twitter you'd be forgiven for thinking Chelsea are close to announcing him :)
Chelsea fans such as the starter of this thread, evidently.
 

Oly Francis

Full Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2018
Messages
3,944
Supports
PSG
Very talented player, but far too often lazy and inconsistent. The stats displayed above look good but don't match what we see on the pitch. He's far more a Ben Arfa than an Neymar since Cherki, while being very good technically, is a pretty slow player if you consider him a winger.

He's still a very young player obviously but so far, his contribution on the pitch has been disapointing overall if you take into account what he showed when he was 17.
 

Zaphod2319

Full Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2020
Messages
4,209
Supports
Chelsea
There is not a lot of context here. The buzz about him is definitely in the Twitter fan base.

 

jeepers

Full Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2015
Messages
795
Huh, what's this based on? The guy is absolutely special. Closest thing to a Neymar in terms of technique out there.
Perhaps this speaks a lot more about the lack of truly special/technical players out there. He's nowhere near Neymar's top level, although he has age on his side. I do also think that he should've gotten more goals and assists this season but that's also on the quality of players around him.

I guess you didn't watch much of Arda Turan because he was pretty great before he went to Barca. Also very technical but similar in that lack of pace/physique.

But of course I wouldn't complaint if we got him. I've always been interested in him since we wanted to sign him years back.
 

tenpoless

No 6-pack, just 2Pac
Joined
Oct 20, 2014
Messages
16,329
Location
Ole's ipad
Supports
4-4-2 classic
Gvardiol goes to Guardiola
Cherki goes to Chelski

Perfectly balanced as things should be.
 

Zed is not dead

Full Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2023
Messages
1,394
Very talented player, but far too often lazy and inconsistent. The stats displayed above look good but don't match what we see on the pitch. He's far more a Ben Arfa than an Neymar since Cherki, while being very good technically, is a pretty slow player if you consider him a winger.

He's still a very young player obviously but so far, his contribution on the pitch has been disapointing overall if you take into account what he showed when he was 17.
Agreed about the inconsistency.

However he needs a very strong coach if he wish to fulfill his potential. I’ve heard from « ITK » who worked directly with him that he’s got attitude issues. But even in the french media it’s quite known that Lyon had some issues with his attitude.

He’s pretty much « I’m talented and I know it » so he can be lazy and arrogant. He’ll complain if he doesn’t start games but won’t put that much effort once he plays, and lacks collective awareness. He’ll try to shine at the expense of his team at times.

In my view, he’s not what United needs right now in terms of character. However seeing how Ten Hag is managing Garnacho, maybe he can help Cherki grow on the mental side of the game.

All that being said, he’s still very young and I hope he can learn to become more of a team player. Talent is undoubtedly here.
 

Bebestation

Im a doctor btw, my IQ destroys yours
Joined
Oct 9, 2019
Messages
11,862
How does he stack up against Mason Mount, though?
Cherki is in the 1% bottom of the world for blocks :lol:

Lowest 8% for tackles.

Lowest 15% for interceptions.

If mount is being bought to play centrally vs Cherki then I think he should be okay..
 
Last edited:

Rnd898

Full Member
Joined
May 7, 2022
Messages
934
Supports
Chelsea
Cherki is in the 1% bottom of the world for blocks :lol:

Lowest 8% for tackles.

Lowest 15% for interceptions.

If mount is being bought to play centrally vs Cherki then I think he should be okay..
Yeah Cherki's defensive contributions are shite and definitely his biggest weakness. That said, he does measure up really well in the offensive statistics. Progressive passes, progressive carries, successful take-ons, penalty area touches, shot-creating actions etc. all in the top 5% metric. Whether that would still be the case if he played in the EPL against generally better defenders is a whole other question though.

He's basically the polar opposite of Mount as a player type, seems to shine in the areas where Mount struggles and vice versa. Mount's definitely more versatile and you can throw him just about anywhere on the pitch and he'll do the job. Cherki on the other hand probably needs more support and cover from his team to perform at his best, otherwise he could easily end up being a liability.
 

Bebestation

Im a doctor btw, my IQ destroys yours
Joined
Oct 9, 2019
Messages
11,862
Yeah Cherki's defensive contributions are shite and definitely his biggest weakness. That said, he does measure up really well in the offensive statistics. Progressive passes, progressive carries, successful take-ons, penalty area touches, shot-creating actions etc. all in the top 5% metric. Whether that would still be the case if he played in the EPL against generally better defenders is a whole other question though.

He's basically the polar opposite of Mount as a player type, seems to shine in the areas where Mount struggles and vice versa. Mount's definitely more versatile and you can throw him just about anywhere on the pitch and he'll do the job. Cherki on the other hand probably needs more support and cover from his team to perform at his best, otherwise he could easily end up being a liability.
Yes.

If Ten Hag wants to play 2 CAM in a 433 then he can’t have one as Cherki because he only offers on the ball ability.

It’s why I assume Ten Hag rates Mount - because he provides good attacking ability but with good defensive ability in a very tough league.

Cherki provides great attacking ability with no defensive ability and with a need to step up in League standards aswell in the future.
 

Bojan Djordjic

Full Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2018
Messages
1,650
Perhaps this speaks a lot more about the lack of truly special/technical players out there. He's nowhere near Neymar's top level, although he has age on his side. I do also think that he should've gotten more goals and assists this season but that's also on the quality of players around him.

I guess you didn't watch much of Arda Turan because he was pretty great before he went to Barca. Also very technical but similar in that lack of pace/physique.

But of course I wouldn't complaint if we got him. I've always been interested in him since we wanted to sign him years back.
He's a genuinely great technical player on any level in any era. In a season he began as an eighteen year old, he finished in the 85th percentile for Npxg and XaG and is elite at pretty much every part of playmaking despite playing in a position RW which probably isn't the one which suits his profile best given his relative lack of athleticism.

Not to get too statistics driven (although just look at any compilation and drool if you want the eye test) but he's in the upper ninety percentiles for take ons, progressive passing and carrying. That's an exceptionally rare profile. He played just under 60% of available league minutes last season and had ten goal contributions (again as an 18/19yr old in a top five league). Arda Turan was decent but he never topped 8 league goal contributions in Spain before or after Barca. Cherki is by far a bigger prospect - although by no means a dead cert given his questionable work-rate and off the ball
 

Amadaeus

Pochémon Fan Club Chairman
Joined
May 8, 2013
Messages
9,234
Location
Amongst footballing managerial 'Gods'
Is this the love child of Madueke and Mudryk?
Easy to get their names mixed up and combine it
He's a genuinely great technical player on any level in any era. In a season he began as an eighteen year old, he finished in the 85th percentile for Npxg and XaG and is elite at pretty much every part of playmaking despite playing in a position RW which probably isn't the one which suits his profile best given his relative lack of athleticism.

Not to get too statistics driven (although just look at any compilation and drool if you want the eye test) but he's in the upper ninety percentiles for take ons, progressive passing and carrying. That's an exceptionally rare profile. He played just under 60% of available league minutes last season and had ten goal contributions (again as an 18/19yr old in a top five league). Arda Turan was decent but he never topped 8 league goal contributions in Spain before or after Barca. Cherki is by far a bigger prospect - although by no means a dead cert given his questionable work-rate and off the ball
Great post, but I agree with what you both are arguing. Cherki will need to improve his defensive contribution in a Pochettino team, especially when you have an attacking rwb outlet like James behind him. But cherki technical ability is amazing. He is still young and can be molded into a better player. He will need a coach and environment that is well structured and gives him the discipline he needs. Pochettino is definitely the manager that can make him into a top talent.
 

WeePat

Full Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2015
Messages
17,383
Supports
Chelsea
Asking price around £34m it seems.

 

Amadaeus

Pochémon Fan Club Chairman
Joined
May 8, 2013
Messages
9,234
Location
Amongst footballing managerial 'Gods'
Asking price around £34m it seems.

As I mentioned before even though people was saying I was pulling it out my Arse. And i do not believe cherki will replace pulisic but moreso Mount. I know what a team needs and cherki is definitely the type of player Pochettino needs at Chelsea. If not him then Wirtz. Pochettino will use the pre-season to assess their attacking needs. A player like cherki is a must because they can't just rely on madueke on the right. If jackson and Borja explodes in pre-season, I do not see you guys getting a striker. Else, I can see Pochettino getting someone more experienced like vlahovic or even make a desperate bid for Kane or Oshimen if the current strikers do not impress him
 

Son

Full Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2019
Messages
1,719
He’s been incredible since 16. I posted a video about this guy years ago. If they sign him for £35 million that will be fantastic business.

Better than any we have done if he stays for years probably. If he matures at a big club will become an elite player.
 

andersj

Nick Powell Expert
Joined
Aug 7, 2004
Messages
4,302
Location
Copenhagen
As I mentioned before even though people was saying I was pulling it out my Arse. And i do not believe cherki will replace pulisic but moreso Mount. I know what a team needs and cherki is definitely the type of player Pochettino needs at Chelsea. If not him then Wirtz. Pochettino will use the pre-season to assess their attacking needs. A player like cherki is a must because they can't just rely on madueke on the right. If jackson and Borja explodes in pre-season, I do not see you guys getting a striker. Else, I can see Pochettino getting someone more experienced like vlahovic or even make a desperate bid for Kane or Oshimen if the current strikers do not impress him
To use the phrase replace it would be normal to look at what qualities a player brings to the team. What tasks they perform for the team. Considering the qualities of Cherki and Mount that is a weird take.

I really dont think Cherki «replace» anyone. He is a type of player they have lacked since Hazard. A player they have been trying to bring in for years, but have failed to.
 

1905

Full Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2014
Messages
373
Supports
Chelsea
To use the phrase replace it would be normal to look at what qualities a player brings to the team. What tasks they perform for the team. Considering the qualities of Cherki and Mount that is a weird take.

I really dont think Cherki «replace» anyone. He is a type of player they have lacked since Hazard. A player they have been trying to bring in for years, but have failed to.
Yep, in terms of sheer technical excellence. While I don't think he'll reach Hazard's level as a player its funny seeing comments like his workrate or attitude being a dealbreaker when we literally had Hazard who was lazy on the pitch defensively, cited by former teammates as the worst trainer they've ever seen, and completely undisciplined when it came to gearing up for the new seasons. Yet he was the centerpiece which we built an entire era around, and compensated for on the pitch. And he's arguably in our top 3 greatest ever players.

Sometimes ridiculous talent trumps all. I think Cherki is far more in line with Hazard's level of talent than a Ben Arfa etc.
 
Last edited:

Adisa

likes to take afvanadva wothowi doubt
Joined
Nov 28, 2014
Messages
50,381
Location
Birmingham
He can’t play for Poch if he’s as lazy as advertised.
 

PoTMS

Full Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2016
Messages
16,391
Cherki for Pulisic plus 10m is the biggest upgrade Chelsea have made.
 

Rnd898

Full Member
Joined
May 7, 2022
Messages
934
Supports
Chelsea
To use the phrase replace it would be normal to look at what qualities a player brings to the team. What tasks they perform for the team. Considering the qualities of Cherki and Mount that is a weird take.

I really dont think Cherki «replace» anyone. He is a type of player they have lacked since Hazard. A player they have been trying to bring in for years, but have failed to.
Yeah, Cherki doesn't seem like a similar player type to any of the numerous players we've already lost or about to sell from last season's team (Havertz, Mount, Felix, Pulisic, Ziyech) so to say he'd be bought as a replacement for any individual player in particular is wrong. But seeing as how bad fits the likes of Ziyech, Pulisic and even Havertz have been for us in the last few seasons that's not to say we should even be looking for similar attributes from our new signings to begin with. A change can be a good thing too.

If we can land Caicedo and partner him with Enzo in the base of midfield, I think we might even be in a position where Cherki's lack of defensive contribution could somewhat be forgiven. As long as the rest of the team are defensively solid and set up in a way that we control the ball for most of the game, a player like Cherki could even end up being a key contributor in unlocking some of those nasty deep defenses we've often struggled with. Even if at first he wasn't a regular starter, just having a creative talent like that being able to bring in from the bench when the team are in desperate need of a goal could be a big asset to the team.

Either way, the fact of the matter is we've offloaded many players from the winger and attacking midfield areas that I would think Nkunku alone being brought in probably won't cut it and another new signing will be needed. Whether that's Cherki or someone else will remain to be seen. I'd personally would be very happy with Cherki being signed as he looks to be quite reasonably priced and if he could just make the step up from Ligue 1 football to EPL football the potential upside of the transfer would be huge. And even if he was somewhat of a failure over the next few years, he'd still be very young and chances are we could move him on for a decent amount of money to cut the losses.
 

GlasgowCeltic

Full Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2006
Messages
5,308
One of the biggest talents on the planet, should learn from Enzo’s mistake and hold off for another year, everyone will be after him
 

Zed is not dead

Full Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2023
Messages
1,394
Yep, in terms of sheer technical excellence. While I don't think he'll reach Hazard's level as a player its funny seeing comments like his workrate or attitude being a dealbreaker when we literally had Hazard who was lazy on the pitch defensively, cited by former teammates as the worst trainer they've ever seen, and completely undisciplined when it came to gearing up for the new seasons. Yet he was the centerpiece which we built an entire era around, and compensated for on the pitch. And he's arguably in our top 3 greatest ever players.

Sometimes ridiculous talent trumps all. I think Cherki is far more in line with Hazard's level of talent than a Ben Arfa etc.
Hazard was tearing it up in France before moving. Hazard came off a season with more than 35 G+A and a Ligue 1 champions medal.
Cherki, apart from being talented, is not even a guaranteed first 11 player for Lyon. So yes, in his case attitude and workrate can easily become important issues, and he’s way closer to Ben Arfa than Hazard, even in terms of attitude