Real Madrid and Barcelona

TheReligion

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Both seemed to be hanging their hats on the ESL helping clear their mounting debt and excessive operating costs. Now the plug has been pulled is it possible that they are in much more trouble than we all realise and could find themselves in the wilderness for the foreseeable future?

Almost certainly Real have done the Alaba deal whilst assuming monies would be coming in from ESL. Ramos hasn't signed and Varane could depart.
Barca haven't sorted Messi out yet nor did they seemingly have the funds to bring in Memphis Depay during the last window.

it's certainly a very interesting time over in Spain I feel.
 

cyberman

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I wonder if they stay, do they think they will get everybody elses severance fines?
 

carvajal

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Més que un club, like the vecchia signora.Real gentlemen of sport. When they sign something they don't let you down , like others ...:smirk:
Now they have to endure and raise the tension in search of a one-year penalty without Champions.
If this is the case, I think the only alternative is to start the Public Limited Company process with some formula so that the socio continues to be present.
 

Foxbatt

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No. Real will get the funding from the Spanish government or Madrid just as they always do.
Probably they will bail out Barcelona too, just to keep the Catalans happy.
 

pierrethesnack

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Més que un club, like the vecchia signora.Real gentlemen of sport. When they sign something they don't let you down , like others ...:smirk:
Now they have to endure and raise the tension in search of a one-year penalty without Champions.
If this is the case, I think the only alternative is to start the Public Limited Company process with some formula so that the socio continues to be present.

I feel like there's a very interesting post in here, but I am struggling a bit to get it :confused:
 

pierrethesnack

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:lol: Not necessarily. Maybe it's a shit post in the middle of my other shit posts. What part don´t you get?
I mean, I've had two beers, so maybe it's just me.

The last two lines: Raise tension? And what's this with a PLC?
 

Eckers99

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They should spend more time developing their own talent and less time hoovering up players like Hazard, Dembele, Griezmann, Coutinho and Jovic.

They've wasted a fortune over the last 5 years and somehow got much worse. It's like watching 2 Uniteds trying to outdo each other, which can only mean they're 2 terribly run clubs.

Considering the means at their disposal, I've got no sympathy at all. Feck them.
 

carvajal

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I mean, I've had two beers, so maybe it's just me.

The last two lines: Raise tension? And what's this with a PLC?
They don't want to give up and go back to the champions because they don't like it, because they can't afford it or because they consider that the idea has to come up, sooner or later.
Therefore, they are interested in selling the story of corruption in Uefa, financial fair play, unsustainable situation ... etc.
The expulsion or the threat may perhaps lead to a negotiation of the model.
If they finally do not achieve anything they would be left in a difficult situation, especially Barcelona, so they could choose to become a public limited company (now it belongs to the partners, "socios"), or at least partially.
A model deeply rooted in the clubs but which they would be forced to abandon "because of the uefa" (although surely they have been thinking about it for a while)
 

pierrethesnack

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They don't want to give up and go back to the champions because they don't like it, because they can't afford it or because they consider that the idea has to come up, sooner or later.
Therefore, they are interested in selling the story of corruption in Uefa, financial fair play, unsustainable situation ... etc.
The expulsion or the threat may perhaps lead to a negotiation of the model.
If they finally do not achieve anything they would be left in a difficult situation, especially Barcelona, so they could choose to become a public limited company (now it belongs to the partners, "socios"), or at least partially.
A model deeply rooted in the clubs but which they would be forced to abandon "because of the uefa" (although surely they have been thinking about it for a while)
Great, thanks.
 

giorno

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@carvajal hit the nail on the head with this. My greatest fear is Florentino using this to complete his steal of the club
 

Iker Quesadillas

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Real Madrid aren't particularly broke. Perez is just lying to paint himself as 'saviour of the club' which has been his self-image for two decades.
 

cyberman

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They don't want to give up and go back to the champions because they don't like it, because they can't afford it or because they consider that the idea has to come up, sooner or later.
Therefore, they are interested in selling the story of corruption in Uefa, financial fair play, unsustainable situation ... etc.
The expulsion or the threat may perhaps lead to a negotiation of the model.
If they finally do not achieve anything they would be left in a difficult situation, especially Barcelona, so they could choose to become a public limited company (now it belongs to the partners, "socios"), or at least partially.
A model deeply rooted in the clubs but which they would be forced to abandon "because of the uefa" (although surely they have been thinking about it for a while)
Can a conpany not really owned by anybody become a PLC?
Thats probably a stupid question.
 

Tallis

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Barcelona and Madrid always seem to have a debt problem but they have always managed to resolve it, field teams with the best players and win trophies. They are virtually guaranteed champions league football anyway because they are so far ahead of the rest of pack in La Liga with the exception of Ath Madrid.

Compared to last year, Barca are already on the mend. They have got some spectacular players from La Masia and some of their signings have started to come good.

The clubs that need to worry are the English clubs who can’t compete with City and Chelsea financially. Yes, Liverpool had a period of winning trophies but that is starting to come to an end. Either they will get their signings right like they did with Salah etc or they will be in a tough spot like Utd or Spurs. For sure, they will not have a big payday like they had on Countinho.
 

Ace of Spades

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They also split the TV money between themselves right, the rest of the league feed on scraps.
 

carvajal

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Can a conpany not really owned by anybody become a PLC?
Thats probably a stupid question.
I don't understand too much , I think the formula is 51% for partners, limiting their sale or monopolizing more than a certain%
@carvajal hit the nail on the head with this. My greatest fear is Florentino using this to complete his steal of the club
If it's not him it will be the next president
 

Chief123

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Més que un club, like the vecchia signora.Real gentlemen of sport. When they sign something they don't let you down , like others ...:smirk:
Now they have to endure and raise the tension in search of a one-year penalty without Champions.
If this is the case, I think the only alternative is to start the Public Limited Company process with some formula so that the socio continues to be present.
When they sign something they don’t let you down? :lol: More like, when they are desperate and gasping for air they’ll sign anything!
 

pass.pass.pass

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Both seemed to be hanging their hats on the ESL helping clear their mounting debt and excessive operating costs. Now the plug has been pulled is it possible that they are in much more trouble than we all realise and could find themselves in the wilderness for the foreseeable future?
Though it's unlikely, would love to see that.
 

Lee565

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It's the likes of Madrid, barca and Juventus that really need the super league, the premier league sides can easily get by with the money the premier league makes ironically becauseof the competitiveness of our league, if anything our premier league teams would have been bailing them out, I think the premier league teams will go through another strong period in the champions league over the next few years.
 
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UNITED ACADEMY

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They need to learn what sportsmanship is. That‘s the no 1 thing in football.
 

RUCK4444

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They will be bailed out one way or another. Disgrace.
They also split the TV money between themselves right, the rest of the league feed on scraps.
Yup and they still need a super league to fund the awful way their clubs are run.

Instead of selling your players and rebuilding (ya know, like every other club in Europe has to) they will just get more money thrown at them. They already operate in a super league like state already, which is why this SL breakaway doesn't seem all that alien to them.
 

JPRouve

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They don't want to give up and go back to the champions because they don't like it, because they can't afford it or because they consider that the idea has to come up, sooner or later.
Therefore, they are interested in selling the story of corruption in Uefa, financial fair play, unsustainable situation ... etc.
The expulsion or the threat may perhaps lead to a negotiation of the model.
If they finally do not achieve anything they would be left in a difficult situation, especially Barcelona, so they could choose to become a public limited company (now it belongs to the partners, "socios"), or at least partially.
A model deeply rooted in the clubs but which they would be forced to abandon "because of the uefa" (although surely they have been thinking about it for a while)
Is it possible/realistic for Barcelona to raise 100m by creating 100k new socios for 1k€ per membership?
 

giorno

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Can a conpany not really owned by anybody become a PLC?
Thats probably a stupid question.
Yes it can. I don't know how it works, but considering the spanish government passed a law that forced all clubs(except madrid, barca, athletic and osasuna) to turn into PLC in the early 90s, there's obviously a way to do it
 

giorno

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Is it possible/realistic for Barcelona to raise 100m by creating 100k new socios for 1k€ per membership?
Don't think so. Not now especially

They'll just renegotiate some of their debt to push it down the line, work on shedding fat from the wage bill and try to raise some money off player sales

As for real madrid, i still believe Florentino is lying through his teeth about the financial problems of the club. Consider: real madrid projected €90M losses for 20/21. Manchester United's? Losses for £190M
 

do.ob

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Yes it can. I don't know how it works, but considering the spanish government passed a law that forced all clubs(except madrid, barca, athletic and osasuna) to turn into PLC in the early 90s, there's obviously a way to do it
German clubs often use the model of "Kommanditgesellschaft (KG)" I don't know if there is a Spanish equivalent, but they basically split off a company that owns the assets and is free to sell its shares, but by definition has its managing board provided by another company which the original club (and thus its members) keep control of.
 

NinjaZombie

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They also split the TV money between themselves right, the rest of the league feed on scraps.
And then turn around and say the world needs the ESL because people want to watch them in more competitive matches. :rolleyes:
 

Shane88

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How come there are no protests from fans in Spain? Do they want their clubs to be in the Super league?
The Juventuz forum seemed very keen on it, there was lots of Real Madrid fans giddy on Twitter about buying Mbappe with the Super League money and Barca will whore themselves out for anything given their current state.

The major pushback seemed to be from English clubs and Inter Ultras.
 

Diabovermelho

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With the fans back in the stadiums, they will recover their finances in a couple of years. Real will have Bernabeu available next season, and barça will probably sign Aguero, Wijnaldum and Garcia for free, plus keep Messi.

They didn't need the Super League to be competitive, they'll always be competitive. Coronavirus was just a setback for them.
 

giorno

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How come there are no protests from fans in Spain? Do they want their clubs to be in the Super league?
There's a fundamental difference between how football is perceived and lived in Spain/Italy compared to England. In england it's ultimately a sport, they care about the values of sport greatly. Not so over here. Fans of Real Madrid/Barcelona/Juventus/Inter/Milan, they don't want to beat their rivals. They want their rivals to disappear. It's our club first, second, third, fourth and fifth. And anything else doesn't matter, not really

So even if they are against the proposed SL, they're not really going to go hard against their clubs over it. Because ultimately, my club >>>>> football
 

stefan92

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German clubs often use the model of "Kommanditgesellschaft (KG)" I don't know if there is a Spanish equivalent, but they basically split off a company that owns the assets and is free to sell its shares, but by definition has its managing board provided by another company which the original club (and thus its members) keep control of.
And then there is the special case of a "Kommanditgesellschaft auf Aktien" (KGaA) - in that case shares of the company are traded on the stock exchange. Currently only Dortmund is using that model, so if you want you can buy a part of that club
 

Nytram Shakes

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I would hope that our fans would learn from the mess these clubs are in, with the constant demand for the club to spend 100’s of millions of transfers.

Of course clearly it isn’t and fans want shiney new big name signing every few months.
 

Polar

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Both seemed to be hanging their hats on the ESL helping clear their mounting debt and excessive operating costs. Now the plug has been pulled is it possible that they are in much more trouble than we all realise and could find themselves in the wilderness for the foreseeable future?

Almost certainly Real have done the Alaba deal whilst assuming monies would be coming in from ESL. Ramos hasn't signed and Varane could depart.
Barca haven't sorted Messi out yet nor did they seemingly have the funds to bring in Memphis Depay during the last window.

it's certainly a very interesting time over in Spain I feel.
Spot on.. Real Madrid and Barcelona are in deep shit. They are desperate.

When giants fall... I’m waiting:drool:
 

matherto

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I think the difference this time is the government doesn’t have the funds to bail them out.

COVID hit all The clubs but it hit those two differently given their rampant use of government corruption to help them.
 

DoomSlayer

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Spot on.. Real Madrid and Barcelona are in deep shit. They are desperate.

When giants fall... I’m waiting:drool:
Yeah, this whole fiasco makes them deserving of going down for the next few years. Despicable actions from their leaders and the fans have shown no better.