Rebuilding Real Madrid - how do you do it? | Buy well

carvajal

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He's won a lot and now he's entered the full megalomania god-complex mode where he believes he's some omnipotent supergenius king midas and starts making bs decision after bs decision and ends up ruining everything. He's already started :lol:

:(
Well, now seriously. You know how he is. Like when they ask him about Cristiano and he says he has also won five European cups.
Because of that eagerness to be important, I doubt that he allows this competitive situation two consecutive years, especially seeing what Barto is doing.
If we are waiting for the last year of Hazard to sign him, to save 40, 50, 60 million, I do not understand that now we pay 180 with commissions for another.
 

giorno

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Well, now seriously. You know how he is. Like when they ask him about Cristiano and he says he has also won five European cups.
Because of that eagerness to be important, I doubt that he allows this competitive situation two consecutive years, especially seeing what Barto is doing.
If we are waiting for the last year of Hazard to sign him, to save 40, 50, 60 million, I do not understand that now we pay 180 with commissions for another.
It happens to all real madrid presidents. I mean, being the president of real madrid you already got to feel like God itself, then you start winning and it's very easy to fall off the slippery slope and start believing you're infallible. And that's where the problems start...

And again, our single biggest problem is lack of goals. At this point i'm not sure how much we can rely on Asensio or Isco, Modric and Kroos don't score, Vinicius even less, and who are the other guys? Brahim, Rodrygo, Lucas?

Benzema scored 30 goals this season, which is fine. Hazard could chip in for another 20. Ok. We still desperately need to find another 30-40 goals between a couple more players. Players who would guarantee us those 30-40 goals. I guess Jovic might be worth another 20. We still need another 10-20 goals player. And if we're not looking at another forward, this must come from midfield. Pogba or Eriksen on our team could give us 10-15 goals or so. Zidane wants Pogba. We should give him Pogba :D

And with hazard and vini we'd have 3 magicians on the pitch :drool::drool::drool:
 

amolbhatia50k

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Madrid haven't spent much in recent years right? If they want they could probably spend 600 million over a few summers.
 

simonhch

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Today in COPE they were talking about signings and were quite pessimistic.
I mean, Jovic / Mendy / Hazard and maybe a midfielder, but nothing sure, and certainly not 150 for Pogba.
I still hope that Florentino will do something big. Like you, I do not trust Zidane's confidence in Modric / Kroos.
Barça are signing very well, and let´s see De Ligt. It would be the worst scenario but imagine Barcelona with the GMN in the attack :houllier:
Madrid haven’t had to rebuild their side since the transfer fees went potty. So they are going to have to invest shrewdly, because they don’t have 500m to throw around. I mean, aside from PSG and City, who the feck does? I can easily see them spending 250-300M in one summer, and obviously paying in instalments over the next 4 years. The problem is, in today’s market, it’s not as much as it sounds. Pogba alone would be half the entire budget. The other issue is that they have very few players with a huge resale value that they’d actually want to part with. Benzene and Bale could both be moved on, but it’s extremely difficult on their wages, and no one is paying any significant money for them. They can raise big money for Varane, Asensio, Vinicius, Isco, Casemiro; but why would they want to sell them? Madrid will be back because they are Madrid and have the most pulling power of any club in the world; but the landscape is different to what it used to be. Now Ronaldo has moved on, and the super team has reached the end of the cycle; it’ll be hard for them to dominate again in the way they have.

As for Barca; there is zero possibility of them lining up with Messi, Neymar and Griezmann. Zero. They can’t even come close to affording it. They are borrowing money to pay wages for a start. They can sell coutinho and Dembele, and even if they get 200m for the two combined (they won’t), Neymar will cost 250-350m, plus obscene wages. Then Griezmann another 110m. And they’ve already spent 75m on De Jong, and are looking for a CB. Never happening. Add to that, that PSG will never sell Neymar and lose face. The only way they’ll let him go is if they don’t want him anymore, and they can get a higher profile player in return. And I can’t think of many.

Barca and Real have dominated for so long in the Messi and Ronaldo era; I think it’s good for European football that they’ll come down a peg and compete with the rest of us (well maybe not us) without the super talents in their ranks.
 

simonhch

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Real Madrid have higher revenues than United though. Not sure where you got the idea that they don't have money or that we are richer.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46970252
But you're actually wrong there. They made a NET profit of 31.2 million euros.

We made a net LOSS of 37.3 million pounds in the 2018 financial year. Now, according to the reports, it was mostly down to a change in the US corporate tax rate (for some reason reducing the tax rate meant losses for us...) but still.

Our operating profit was somewhat higher than Madrid's net profit but then we're not comparing the same thing. We do have somewhat higher cash reserves though.
Unfortunately there is somewhat of a lack of understanding here. Firstly, and as someone else pointed out to you, there is a critical difference between revenue and profit.

Secondly it is worth looking at not just the raw data, but also the context. For example.

In a period where United made a significant investment in their squad, and only made the last 16 of the champions league, they posted a net operating profit.

In the same period where Madrid actually made a large net profit on transfers, and won the CL for the third time in a row, they made a smaller net operating profit than we did.

So to put that data into even further context, in a period where they sold their most valuable asset, and slashed their wage bill, and also achieved unprecedented success (which is far from guaranteed to be replicated), profits were small. By selling Ronaldo for 100m and slashing his 42m off the wage bill, Madrid claimed a 37m net operating profit (euros). Without the Ronaldo sale, they would have posted an 87m euro loss. In a year with a third straight CL win, and no significant expenditure on the squad. Also factor in that they are investing heavily in their infrastructure over the coming years, and cash flow will be exceptionally tight. If Madrid were spending like United had over the last 5 years, they’d be posting losses of over a hundred million or more every year.

By contrast we have spent these vast sums, and still posted profits. And that’s without even having the windfall of regular CL football, or much on field success. Madrid’s next financial figures will probably reflect the lack of trophies this year, and the early CL exit. Which probably means 50m or so less in revenue. Plus the impact of losing their most marketable player. Their wage bill is set to increase dramatically next year with the expected addition of 2-3 high profile players. Hence the desperation to ditch Bale. Madrid is a football fans dream as to how to run a club. If they had shareholders they’d be freaking out. But as they don’t, no one gives a shit. They obviously still carry financial clout of significant proportions, but they are far from top dog in the financial pyramid despite their revenues.
 
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giorno

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So to put that data into even further context, in a period where they sold their most valuable asset, and slashed their wage bill, and also achieved unprecedented success (which is far from guaranteed to be replicated), profits were small. By selling Ronaldo for 100m and slashing his 42m off the wage bill, Madrid claimed a 37m net operating profit (euros). Without the Ronaldo sale, they would have posted an 87m euro loss. In a year with a third straight CL win, and no significant expenditure on the squad. Also factor in that they are investing heavily in their infrastructure over the coming years, and cash flow will be exceptionally tight. If Madrid were spending like United had over the last 5 years, they’d be posting losses of over a hundred million or more every year.
Afaik we don't calculate profit on player sales in those figures. And the financial windfall of our recent success was somehow mitigated by prize money(in fact, iirc winning the double in 16/17 actually ended costing us more the 2nd place/CL SF from '15. As in, we actually made a bigger profit off results in '15 than in '17)

As for cash reserves, they simply don't matter to a club like real madrid. Banks will line up to loan us money if we ask, it's a smart investment for them. Cash flow is the important bit
 

simonhch

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Afaik we don't calculate profit on player sales in those figures. And the financial windfall of our recent success was somehow mitigated by prize money(in fact, iirc winning the double in 16/17 actually ended costing us more the 2nd place/CL SF from '15. As in, we actually made a bigger profit off results in '15 than in '17)

As for cash reserves, they simply don't matter to a club like real madrid. Banks will line up to loan us money if we ask, it's a smart investment for them. Cash flow is the important bit
The figures I stated are accurate, as per Madrid’s own numbers. Cash reserves do matter because credit lines aren’t limitless. Madrid already have a lot of debt, and are significantly adding to it for the Bernabéu rebuild. Yes banks will lend them money, but within reason to their ability to repay them, especially for assets that will often rapidly depreciate. All this is to say that Madrid can spend, but they have clear restrictions.
 

amolbhatia50k

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They are spending over £500m to redevelop the stadium this summer, despite not needing it. They won’t have any major money this year to play around with.
500 Million! That's mental. Their stadium is already enormous.
 

thejtrain

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With the fall of Messi, it won't be that daunting a task, at least in the league. Barcelona are not the machine they once where, and you only have to better than your challengers when it comes to the league. CL is a whole different kettle of fish, though, but if you are doing well in the league, odds are you will do well in Europe as well.
 

giorno

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The figures I stated are accurate, as per Madrid’s own numbers. Cash reserves do matter because credit lines aren’t limitless. Madrid already have a lot of debt, and are significantly adding to it for the Bernabéu rebuild. Yes banks will lend them money, but within reason to their ability to repay them, especially for assets that will often rapidly depreciate. All this is to say that Madrid can spend, but they have clear restrictions.
Operating profit before ammortization and disposable assets was €93m in 17/18. Net debt is negative, it's essentially net liquidity.

Unless we're lying in our books, we're stupidly rich and should have a humongous operating margin/budget on tranfers. The only limitation is FFP
 

simonhch

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Operating profit before ammortization and disposable assets was €93m in 17/18. Net debt is negative, it's essentially net liquidity.

Unless we're lying in our books, we're stupidly rich and should have a humongous operating margin/budget on tranfers. The only limitation is FFP
Net operating profit was 31.2m euros for that period.
 

carvajal

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Madrid haven’t had to rebuild their side since the transfer fees went potty. So they are going to have to invest shrewdly, because they don’t have 500m to throw around. I mean, aside from PSG and City, who the feck does? I can easily see them spending 250-300M in one summer, and obviously paying in instalments over the next 4 years. The problem is, in today’s market, it’s not as much as it sounds. Pogba alone would be half the entire budget. The other issue is that they have very few players with a huge resale value that they’d actually want to part with. Benzene and Bale could both be moved on, but it’s extremely difficult on their wages, and no one is paying any significant money for them. They can raise big money for Varane, Asensio, Vinicius, Isco, Casemiro; but why would they want to sell them? Madrid will be back because they are Madrid and have the most pulling power of any club in the world; but the landscape is different to what it used to be. Now Ronaldo has moved on, and the super team has reached the end of the cycle; it’ll be hard for them to dominate again in the way they have.

As for Barca; there is zero possibility of them lining up with Messi, Neymar and Griezmann. Zero. They can’t even come close to affording it. They are borrowing money to pay wages for a start. They can sell coutinho and Dembele, and even if they get 200m for the two combined (they won’t), Neymar will cost 250-350m, plus obscene wages. Then Griezmann another 110m. And they’ve already spent 75m on De Jong, and are looking for a CB. Never happening. Add to that, that PSG will never sell Neymar and lose face. The only way they’ll let him go is if they don’t want him anymore, and they can get a higher profile player in return. And I can’t think of many.

Barca and Real have dominated for so long in the Messi and Ronaldo era; I think it’s good for European football that they’ll come down a peg and compete with the rest of us (well maybe not us) without the super talents in their ranks.
I have been trying to write a message but I can not get the correct translation.
In summary I would say that I am only excited by Hazard, who has infected me with his excitement and Mbappé.
The other options seem artificial, players and rumors prophesied years ago, contracts, agents, and take what is available.
I see myself talking about Eriksen, Pjanic, Jovic, Pogba trying to convince myself, while in the head I have other totally different players.
Madrid sign what shines now, not the most affordable in 2023.
In other words, I'm still in my sugar world.
About Barsa, I do not understand very well about Griezmann.
From a point of rivalry and "geo football strategy" the champions league blow, their doubts in Valverde and the institutional situation are enough to relieve me.
I would not change my players or their situation for theirs
 

MVBDX

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500 Million! That's mental. Their stadium is already enormous.
It won't affect the clubs ability on signings at all, it'll be like pay 10M per year or something like that, but it has to be paid for decades, still, basically pocket exchange due to the way it's being paid, with the revenues going exponentially high, but the yearly payment staying the same, that 10M (or whatever that amount is) might not be the monthly wage of your star in 10 years time, let alone 20-30 years.
 

giorno

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Convinced we're still limited by the potential neymar/mbappé signings. We don't want to commit too much money in transfers now because we're still hopeful of getting one of them next year so we need to save the money for that
 

Javi

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Is there even profit in a CL win? Players get crazy bonuses. I though I read somewhere that its actually a burden, finacially speaking.
 

Fer

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I think they will sign Militao, Mendy, N'Dombele, Pogba/Eriksen, Hazard and Jovic
 

Acheron

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I hope we don't sign Pogba and get someone like Eriksen instead. I'm excited about Hazard but I think we also need to sign a striker; Werner was my favorite candidate but I guess Jovic could be ok too.
 

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I hope we don't sign Pogba and get someone like Eriksen instead. I'm excited about Hazard but I think we also need to sign a striker; Werner was my favorite candidate but I guess Jovic could be ok too.
Jovic is a much better striker than Werner.
 

Red4Life_#7

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Funny how Pogba's stock has dropped so much, Utd fans give him stick and Madrid don't really want him. He's not world class yet, but with the right players around him he can be a top top player.
With slow-touch-Matic, Pogba won't excel as they both require too many touches of the ball, but Pogs can be quick when needed. Pogba needs better technical players around him, then you will see him excel.

Real Madrid don't need as much rebuilding as we think. They miss Ronaldo's presence off and on the pitch along with his relentless winning mentality. Even Messi needs/misses Ronaldo.

Hazard will be a good signing, but they also need a top striker as Benz has never been great enough to give you 40 a season.
 

Fosu-Mens

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Is there even profit in a CL win? Players get crazy bonuses. I though I read somewhere that its actually a burden, finacially speaking.
Winning CL will get you bonuses from the sponsors, and long term it will increase your fanbase globally.
Short term, it might not amount to anything, but long term (3-5 years) it will increase the income from merchandising and sponsors.
 

Scroto Baggins

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Hazard and Eriksen are a good start. What are the chances they can get Mbappe from PSG, or is Eriksen, Hazard, Mbappe too expensive even for Madrid?
 

ThierryHenry14

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Real Madrid has already signed 2 exciting Brazilian forward play on the wing in 433 and they just need time to mature. Zidane only needs to add more energy in the midfield as Modric and Kroos are fading. They also signed a highly rated CB. They may not go back to the very top next season but they are fine in the long run.

Rodrygo, Diaz, Vinicius are all good quality young players.
 
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André Dominguez

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This is pretty much an easy task. Their squad has already top quality, just need 2 or three add-ons.
 

Saffron

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The stadium rebuild is terrble timing for them now that they need to rebuild the squad. Just look at what it did to Arsenal. Had the Emirates money been plowed into the first team after 03/04 instead of selling their best players to pay off the stadium debt, there’s no telling where they would be now.
 

mitchmouse

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their usual well - spending a bloody fortune (which I never have worked out where it comes from)
 

GatoLoco

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Hazard 120
Jovic 60
Militao 50
Mendy 40

Who else is left?
 

RoyH1

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The stadium rebuild is terrble timing for them now that they need to rebuild the squad. Just look at what it did to Arsenal. Had the Emirates money been plowed into the first team after 03/04 instead of selling their best players to pay off the stadium debt, there’s no telling where they would be now.
Pretty sure I’ve read that they took out a loan by which they will be paying 25million a year over the next couple of decades.
Not really a problem for a club with their massive turnover.
I’ll try to find a link in a English for the info.
 

André Dominguez

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their usual well - spending a bloody fortune (which I never have worked out where it comes from)
They have up to 750M€ of revenues per year without counting with players transfers and % over players image rights. I guess that answers your question
 

Acheron

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Jovic is a much better striker than Werner.
Yeah, I guess he can get the job done as well and I really don't mind him as we've been needing to reinforce that position so I'm going to be happy if we finally get a good striker.
 

giorno

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Hazard 120
Jovic 60
Militao 50
Mendy 40

Who else is left?
Jovic 70 and Mendy 50 apparently. Also Rodrygo 50

Then it's one midfielder at least, as well

Then Keylor, Reguilon, Vallejo, Theo, Llorente, Ceballos, Kovaciv, James, Mariano, De Tomas, Bale to sell for sure. Isco and Odegaard maybe. Brahim and Rodrygo to be evaluated whether to keep or loan
 

carvajal

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I read that this window begins a new restriction by which can be only a difference of 100m euros between sales and purchases?. Is that right?
It's a "joke" measure or we have to take it seriously
 

Vato

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I read that this window begins a new restriction by which can be only a difference of 100m euros between sales and purchases?. Is that right?
It's a "joke" measure or we have to take it seriously
That's just the excuse we're telling chelsea so we don't get fleeced for hazard.
 

giorno

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That's just the excuse we're telling chelsea so we don't get fleeced for hazard.
This :lol:

It's not even a good excuse because they must know the rules as well as us :lol: