Off the mark that. Last player you should be downplaying when it comes to a magnificent combination of defensive and creative ability. Keano got the wrong end of it.
Redafe Champions League Draft - kps v Isotope
- Thread starter Theon
- Start date
Off the mark that. Last player you should be downplaying when it comes to a magnificent combination of defensive and creative ability. Keano got the wrong end of it.
I meant off the ball.
No doubt, and I do take into account all the lineups, including any surprise factors that may get dealt with... but possibly too late.
In fact, Brwned keeps telling me I'm the only one who plays on that basis and keeps converting from 24 hours to 90mins to assess the flow of the game
It doesn't.
When you have man-marking duties there's always the danger the chap you are man-marking is too close and may wind up being your own man-marker. That won't happen with Riquelme, he won't give Redondo any trouble.
Alternatively, you are somewhat constrained in that you can't lose sight of the chap you are marking. That doesn't stop Redondo spraying balls around by any means. It may limit his forward runs, but not his playmaking from deep.
What doesn't? Is Riquelme not allowed to move when being man marked?
All I'm saying is it will obviously free up space for Davids and Ronaldo to exploit. Unless Redondo's going to mark them all out of the game, in which case lets just give the trophy to Iso.
You have a point but an intelligent player like Redondo won't be wasting 10 minutes standing next to Riquelme while Davids/Ronaldo whoever do the damage. That is what separates his from players like Makelele. He is taking care of Riquelme yes but he will also be intercepting balls from deep, doing his routine. I think he's the best midfielder on the pitch easily and out of all the midfielders the most capable of winning the game by himself. It would be a mistake to rule him out of the game when you have the ball thinking he'd be ball watching.
Has PM'd Theon earlier, but seems like he's gone. ANd the second formation is my final one. Losing Forlan in the formation did take some 'firepower', but putting him on the wing (just try to fit him in) is frankly a disgrace for his quality, and the formation itself. Was thinking of him on the right or left wing, but can't see how it will work in real game. He should be behind striker (one of the two strikers) or roaming on free role.No, he can't, which is my dilemma here. I could see him winning this if he played it right and I can see him controlling the game but he has lost so much firepower...
Brwned's trial subs were really dodgy!No chance he can do it here as many seem to have voted based on the change, although the op is still not updated.
Iso, you should PM Theon with that.
It doesn't take him out of the game. Davids is on Albetini's side. I would like to see Boban on the left not just to switch Ribery, but also to help deal with your right side.
What you're basically saying is he's going to take Riquelme out of the game, and at the same time make sure Davids and Ronaldo don't do anything either. I'm sorry but even Redondo on speed couldn't mark three players out of the game at the same time. The basic down side to man marking is you free up space for other players, that's going to happen here since he can't be in three places at once. I'd say Ronaldo's nailed on to score goals in this game.
Lets not forget Iso's current goal threat is Eto'o up front on his own against Kohler and Costacurta.
It wasn't on the wing but inside left. Pretty much where akash had Hagi yesterday and where Forlán's best play has been delivered. Call it behind the striker and slanted to the left if you want.
Coentrao is mainly good for his attacking so he would be the one providing width. He is not stuck to Ronaldo, but was he ever going to be?
As Theon hasn't updated the OP formation, yet. I'll just re-post my updated formation here:
No doubt, and I do take into account all the lineups, including any surprise factors that may get dealt with... but possibly too late.
In fact, Brwned keeps telling me I'm the only one who plays on that basis and keeps converting from 24 hours to 90mins to assess the flow of the game
Theres a few of you that do this i think, that was a mistake i made. I've never made a sub before, and hadn't realised people are considering players being knackered.
No mate that was absolutely fine, I just hadn't read the thread so hadn't updated it.
OP has been changed now
No, the point is Redondo doesn't need to stick with Riquelme with glue.
i was waiting to see if Isotope was going to make a change to get Valeron on. I think kps' team doesn't have enough cohesiveness. Heinze was always dodgy (I don't really like defenders who keep having to make tackles) and doesn't offer a thing in attack. Salgado was decent at Real at a time when they were full of stars. He is solid defensively, and decent while in attack but he will be completely occupied with Ribery, without any support from his winger.
As in attack, I expect Iso to win the midfield battle and hence the attack too since kps' attackers aren't as good in the build-up. Should have been a straight-forward win for Iso, if he had made a proper argument in the beginning. Anyways he still has a decent chance of winning.
As in attack, I expect Iso to win the midfield battle and hence the attack too since kps' attackers aren't as good in the build-up. Should have been a straight-forward win for Iso, if he had made a proper argument in the beginning. Anyways he still has a decent chance of winning.
What mistake did you make?
Not making subs
Valeron really should have started, that Iso midfield looks absolutely brilliant right now.
You mean against Fergus? I wasn't even around.
Unfortunately for you, as I thought you were the better side. He did own you on the thread though.
No, i mean in general, but yes i think it cost us Gio's vote against Fergus. I didn't contribute much to the thread
I need Ribery there to help Coentrao against CRonaldo, like he did exceptionally well with a rookie Alaba at LB. Hagi is a midfielder foremost, so it could work out him going deep and picking up the ball. Forlan is a striker at heart that creative enough to do playmaking. Let just say, he's my main sub for Boban (with Angloma providing width) if the team is chasing the game. He's as two footed player as any out there anyway.
Which is how he owned you. He got stuff going in his direction and you didn't spot/stop it. It's bizarre how the discussions seemed to centre on all the wrong things!
It was a bit like me having Gio spend the entire first half of our All-time game arguing the merits of Gunnar Nordahl, el Charro Moreno and Arsenio Erico, instead of him having Rivaldo, Platini and Xavi in his midfield.
We were 6 ahead when i logged off
Oh, I see, the curse of Zibi Boniek. "Il bello di notte" staged many a comeback for me while my European rivals were sleeping 
Oh, I see, the curse of Zibi Boniek. "Il bello di notte" staged many a comeback for me while my European rivals were sleeping
Nah i sat it out after the first few hours, was a few complaints that 2v1 was a bit unfair. Came back on then to try and rescue it in the last hr
Wasn't Snow at his brother's wedding though?
Anyhow, you've done your reflecting and identifying future improvements!
This has gone pretty dead. Iso needs to liven it up and keep at it. It sure won't be kps, he seems to be hiding under a rock.
I'm going offline now.
Anyhow, you've done your reflecting and identifying future improvements!
This has gone pretty dead. Iso needs to liven it up and keep at it. It sure won't be kps, he seems to be hiding under a rock.
I'm going offline now.
Wasn't it Davids, Xavi and Platini? Still though, I do find that I usually disagree with Gio on how much bite a midfield needs, particularly in these drafts with super strong opposition, Gios are always borderline not having enough IMO. That said, he does well in these drafts with the type of players that every wants and wishes they could get away with.
I was actually away most of my match day too, bit of bother to sort out but I did fire a few quick ones in a row which were largely detached from the, as you say, strange discussions going on. People questioning wether Thuram preferred to play RB or not and lots of talk about Ozil and Muller and who is more suited on the right.
Funny you mention Boniek too, I know Balu suggested that Muller is the closest player to him in this age and I like to think he served a good purpose for me so far. Who else in this draft would you say are of that ilk too? Boban the closest for this game?
One thing about Edgar Davids, he's not a defensive midfield. Putting him solely to man mark attacking player, thus must stay deep, only utilize 50% of what make him famous. It's like having Eissen to do Makelele's job at Chelsea, which wasn't working. Neither do Cambiasso to solely man mark or sitting deep. The reason Cambiasso failed at Madrid, because he was expected to stay deep and do the tackles; which is not all his game about.
But both Davids and Cambiasso here are expected to defend and just do the donkey work for Riquelme, Ronaldo, and Killy. It might work for a while, but unless they use PED, both would eventually get tired, take the burden of kps entire midfield of chasing the ball Redondo-Albertini-Ribery-Valeron-Boban have.
But both Davids and Cambiasso here are expected to defend and just do the donkey work for Riquelme, Ronaldo, and Killy. It might work for a while, but unless they use PED, both would eventually get tired, take the burden of kps entire midfield of chasing the ball Redondo-Albertini-Ribery-Valeron-Boban have.
I just said, Antohan's description of Boniek sounded like Müller. I still haven't seen enough of Boniek to actually confirm that theory
.Rivaldo, Platini, Charro Moreno and Xavi, with Davids doing all the legwork. I somehow managed the entire discussion to be 50% about comparing players no one had ever heard of or will hear of again and 50% about Davids not being enough. The points were valid, but the strange thing was how little damage Rivaldo, Platini and Xavi made. I got Gio so wound up he completely forgot about his stars.
I decided that was my last draft there and then. That was enough for me (and him I guess), I always draw him and they are horrible horrible games.
Bizarre. Michael Tarnat was hiding in plain sight while people discussed Thuram's credentials
Yeah, when I posted my Boniek eulogy after the game with NM Balu mentioned it sounded bang on like Muller. Brilliant timing because I decided to pay a lot more attention to him just as Bayern started firing on all cylinders. He is indeed in that mould, in a more structured/efficient German way. Boniek was just completely manic stuff, you spent half the game thinking he had completely lost the plot.
Not sure I would have many in that bracket though, it's a very unique kind of player, they just seem to be playing in a parallel dimension where it is all about movement and creating space where there was none. Of course lots of players do that, but still most players play relative to the ball, where it is, who has it, where it is likely to go... With those two I would swear it seems like they don't give two shits about the ball. It is space they crave and -wherever the ball may be- they know disrupting a defence, dragging people out of position and tying them up in knots is the best formula for their side to score. Weirdos.
Again, Boniek more so, Muller wouldn't have such a knack for scoring tap ins if he wasn't "ball aware", but their entire approach to the game is markedly different from the rest. Chaos-inducing Duracell bunnies.
It always seems unexplainable with Muller. He isn't the most skilful, faster, stronger, or has excellent shot; but the team look less potent if he isn't there. He must be the most intelligent footballer there, in terms of positioning in attacking third.
Bang on? When did Ribery play on the right? Ribery at his best is a much more dangerous player than Forlán. Why make him weaker?
He has done his best work on the left, no question. Whether he is a more dangerous player than Forlán at his peak I guess is down to opinion. Forlán got two Pichichis, a European Golden Boot and the Golden Ball in 2010. That sounds pretty dangerous to me (I know, you are of the opinion he wasted too much possession trying shots).
The fundamental issue here was, and is, whether iso can score at all. I have seen his central midfield as stronger from the outset but I can't for the life of me see him getting too many chances to score. kps' defensive core is very solid. How can Iso go about unsettling it? One way is to use his tricky winger to target the weaker fullback and try drag Kohler out to deal with someone on the ball and at pace. A comfortable Kohler is the last thing Iso wants. At the same time, that gave Forlán his favoured inside left position which is where he filled his boots from.
It's all academic now as Forlán is no longer on the pitch and, with him, a fair share of Iso's goalscoring threat. I was the very first (if not the only) to tell kps Riquelme was a dangerous pick, and it is showing. Yet, despite him being nulliied I can still see kps scoring through Cristiano more than I can see Iso scoring at all.
He got those awards playing as a striker.
No, he got most of those as a second striker, withdrawn, and primarily on the left. Look up any youtube clip of his goals and you will see a fair share is him receiving at inside left and letting fly from outside the box.
The Golden Ball certainly was as a playmaker at inside left, never a striker.
He also played his best football in counter-attacking sides. Unless he is some sort of Inzaghi (which he isn't), you can't quite draw a line between being a striker and an inside left in that sort of side. He was forging his own opportunities from deep and involved in build up, not just standing up there in the box waiting for the ball.
The Golden Ball certainly was as a playmaker at inside left, never a striker.
He also played his best football in counter-attacking sides. Unless he is some sort of Inzaghi (which he isn't), you can't quite draw a line between being a striker and an inside left in that sort of side. He was forging his own opportunities from deep and involved in build up, not just standing up there in the box waiting for the ball.
I'd be a bit confident against a Messi's team; than Ronnie. That Ronnie's thread keeps bumping up, making it difficult.
kps has better centerbacks. But as has been proven in modern games, midfield win you games. Barcelona proves it, Bayern proves it, Dortmund proves it (with Hummel has been struggled this season). As long as your midfield is pressing and work hard, even the lesser team (player for player) could stifle team who's just collection of stars.
kps has better centerbacks. But as has been proven in modern games, midfield win you games. Barcelona proves it, Bayern proves it, Dortmund proves it (with Hummel has been struggled this season). As long as your midfield is pressing and work hard, even the lesser team (player for player) could stifle team who's just collection of stars.
The way I see it is Isotope's midfield will gain a foothold of possession but the quadrant of
Kohler Costacurta
Cambiasso Davids
will limit how effectively that is used in areas that will hurt Kps' team.
Yep, that's it.I just said, Antohan's description of Boniek sounded like Müller. I still haven't seen enough of Boniek to actually confirm that theory
5 votes in this one...
This seems to have stalled, what a shame
Iso needs to keep this active early tomorrow, it's gone completely dead and he still has a fair bit of catching up to do.