RedCafe has become toxic as feck.

UnitedSofa

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Not too sure where to put this, but I enjoyed coming to this place over the years and only lately have started to post more.

But I have seen far too many posts lately that are being abusive to our own manager, abusive to our own players, abusive to the owners, abusive to the CEO it's just disgusting to see.

Plenty of Ole Out threads that come up time and time again, 'predicting the date of when Ole gets the sack', "next man utd manager xx/xx" - I hate to see it because those type of threads are just full of the typical toxic football fan.

"Predict the date Ole gets the sack" What the fcuk?!

Our club has become divided and this isn't the place nor is it the time to discuss those matters, which have contributed to it.

But I'm fed up of seeing people attributed to our club get personal abuse and disgusting takes thrown their way.

Just now the Maguire one, where someone is calling for a new captain at the club. Calling Maguire all the names under the sun over a 30 second clip of him calming Rashford down, accepting the ref's decision and getting the players to get back into the game again. (Again not the time to discuss it, go to the thread) - 30 seconds! They're basing his whole captaincy on 1 30 second clip. What's he gonna do shout and scream at the ref and get booked himself?

The toxicity has skyrocketed since not getting Sancho and people are slating every single player we have bought this summer. Yet we haven't even seen them play yet.

RedCafe is in danger of becoming a toxic place to be for Man Utd fans and we need to get back to how it used to be. A fun place to discuss, everything Man Utd related.
 

11101

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You are right but it's a reflection of the club at the moment. Everybody from the fans to the players feel it.
 

CG1010

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We are all very reactionary.. haven't started the season well hence this. I bet if we have a couple of good wins then the mood at the club will change.

Some posters of course come with their agendas regardless of the situation
 

SparkedIntoLife

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I agree. I also think too many threads on innocuous topics descend into huge feckoff arguments with insults and personal abuse. It's always been there but has become overwhelmingly prevalent lately. I don't think the ill mood around the club is an excuse to be dicks to each other tbh. That doesn't wash.
 

The Red Thinker

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I respect the OP’s sentiments but at the end of the day this forum is a sounding board. Fans ar emotional and we’ve had a poor first three games and a terrible window. Of course the terrible stewardship of the club. Add that to what is largely an extremely stressful year with the pandemic and all, we’re all less patient that before.

The Caf has always had hyper reactionary fans. Fans with agendas and even members from other forums. It’s very unique that way and I’m glad I found it some 10 years ago. Let’s just give everyone a second chance these days. It’s hard out there.
 

Denis79

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The majority of fans will defend the club with teeth and claws when talking to someone supporting a different club. But among fellow fans you vent your frustration, it's normal.
 

pratyush_utd

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We have just been hammered by Spurs at home. And didn't get Sancho who everyone wanted. Give it few good game and we will be back to positivity. It's how football fans are
 

Ish

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Yeah, spot on but I guess it's how things go/progress. It's a forum. A place for discussion. Humans, for the most part, are generally a pessimistic, moaning bunch. We like blaming others for our own misery, I guess. :lol:

I just sort of ignore the toxicity and delve into threads I wanna read up about. We used to laugh at RAWK but we're getting a semblance of the starvation of success they suffered, until recently and it made them bitter/toxic. I suppose they went the way of "delusions of grandeur" (Pennant > Ronaldo, boom-bust cycle etc.), whereas our lot seems to be much more critical of our own.

Add in a whole bunch of fans who have only ever known SAF at the helm, with all the success (myself included)....it's a recipe for anger! This is not a factual post btw, it's just how i perceive things.
 

Skills

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A lot of the toxicity just originates from a sect of our fans having a cult like devotion to whoever our manager is. This was there under Moyes, Van Gaal and especially under Mourinho too.

Whenever the cult leader is under any type of pressure, the sect will burn down the entire club to deflect attention away from him.
 

SteveCoppellFan

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Wow .. UnitedSofa, I thank you for posting this .. your post is exactly what ive been thinking over recent days.

Obviously, Im not a regular poster and come here to make the odd comment and read some threads but lately its been absolutely horrid.

Sure, there is plenty to be frustrated about but the sheer amount of anger and hostility running through this place at the moment is unhealthy.

I see the same thing in the match day thread, its just crazy.

Ive been a United fan for over 40 years and most will know we have had worse times than this.

The internet is a great thing but it really has given a platform to the meek to vent their anger at life.

Its really not healthy shouting at a computer screen 24/7
 

Ventura

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The entire internet is toxic, it's a big hateful place. I guess it's because it's a platform where we're allowed to be ourselves, we don't have to conform to stupid social norms and be nice to each other, so we say exactly what we're thinking. And no chance of getting your face full of fist for it.
 

Judas

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It's been much worse. Start of the year and towards the end of Jose's time (or most his reign) things were much nastier. I think most on here are on the same page a bit more now after recent events.
 

Lynty

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Agreed. Gone completely to shit. It's impossible to have reasonable discussion without threads descending into insults and over exaggerations.
 

flappyjay

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Where else can you vent about United issues but a United forum. It's tough you just have to find threads that are less toxic. Once I have cooled down as I have from the weekend train wreck I avoid obvious land mines like Maguire and Ole threads.
 

hanovercigars

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Maybe we should look at ourselves and ask if we are contributing to the 'toxicity' that we are complaining about by not accepting that there will always be a wide range of opinions.
 

markhughes

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People are more and more reactionary these days, not just redcafe but in general. We expect instant gratification and perfection and when it doesn’t happen people react negatively.

Man Utd fans have also been spoilt with success for a long period of time so are having a hard time accepting our current status, it’s difficult to take to be fair.

You can’t win all the time and if you can’t find joy in the game when things are not going right for your club then you will end up twisted and bitter, I am not happy with the way the club is run but the odd cup run or big night at OT keeps me going.

It probably helps that I have been a supporter since the late 80’s and so success wasn’t ever guaranteed back then.

Enjoy the bits you can and swear at the TV at the appropriate times, it’s not so bad really! Man Utd, sometimes great, some times terrible but never boring.
 
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Tom Van Persie

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It's gone downhill like every other place on the internet but still the best football forum I've seen and best forum to discuss United. It's almost impossible to have any kind of United opinion on twitter these days without being abused by HUHG morons.
 

TrueRed79

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Threads and posts around football forums tend to reflect the state of the club at the current time. Nothing new to see here.
 

WeePat

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For what it's worth, Chelsea's fanbase gets incredibly toxic when things at the club aren't great. It reared it's ugly when Mourinho had us in 16th place, and again when we finished 5th with Conte despite those poor seasons being sandwiched in between title wining seasons. Chelsea twitter has been in a perpetual state of civil war pretty much since 2015 when Mourinho was fired - reared it's ugly head in a really bad way again under Sarri despite the team performing relatively okay.

Arsenal's fanbase reached unprecedented levels of toxic at the end of both Wenger and Emery's time. I don't keep close enough tabs on other clubs but I'm sure it's the same. It's not nice but it's comes with the territory sadly, of being a sports fan and being active online.
 

RashyForPM

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RedCafe is overly toxic for sure. For example, we ought to not abuse the players or manager, instead give constructive criticism. The stick Cavani got just for signing was unbelievably annoying.

For me though, abuse on Woodward and the Glazers is fair game. Do you not think so? They’ve practically ruined Fergie’s empire in 7 years.
 

Smores

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The mods do a decent job of chucking out those who regularly abuse. This is just another thread complaining about having to read criticism really, same as yesterdays attempt.
 

Ole'sattheWheel

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Yeah one of the reasons I've been reading the site for the last 12 years is because the footballing discussion has always been way better than that of Reddit/twitter/other forums hence the large number of opposition fans.
The oppo fans also made the discussion relatively unbiased and gave me a good insight into how rational fans can discuss their teams (with the occasional understandable blowover).

But over the last few years this place has become disgusting, I come back every now and then but nowhere near as much as I used to. I used to genuinely love spending all day on here reading football discussion.

It does make you wonder with all the "russian troll" stuff going on in other sites if it's happening here too also...
 

KiD MoYeS

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I think if Woodward resigned the mood would be lifted pretty much immediately. We have such a big fan base that there will always be some elements of toxicity. It is particularly bad now because the club is right now, particularly bad.
 

Neil_Buchanan

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I agree, it happens to everything on the internet once it becomes too big. This place was much better ten years ago but now it has too many members. I have been in tons of groups and forums over the years and they all turn to dogshit once they reach this saturation point.
 

Andy_Cole

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Nothing wrong with being abusive to the owners and CEO. Woodward is a laughing stock and they’re taking us down and down.
 

Matriac

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A lot of the toxicity just originates from a sect of our fans having a cult like devotion to whoever our manager is. This was there under Moyes, Van Gaal and especially under Mourinho too.

Whenever the cult leader is under any type of pressure, the sect will burn down the entire club to deflect attention away from him.
I haven't seen a single "Ole in" poster to be posting negatively about the club and burn things down to deflect attention.

If anything they are the ones calling for patience and saying the club isn't in a big of a crisis as people make it out to be.
 

AaronRedDevil

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Barely even 4 games in and already people asking for Ole to be sacked after the miracle he pulled off last season, getting United CL football which is what the fans at the very least wanted. How can the higher ups ever listen to these fans when they act like this so easily. Also I’m getting the feeling a lot of fans just refuse to be patient with the rebuild. One or so bad performence and the player is bad forever and such. Especially since there’s a lot of seasoned fans on here and even they become so reactionary with every inconvenience. Like the match day threads are a cesspool of hate.

Just too much crap being sprouted. You can’t ever win with this lot. Guess what genius. If precious Poch comes in and the exact same problems still persist in the end, then you’ve sacked a manager had the right idea for the club. Give the Ole some time. He’s dealing with idiots like Ed. I hate the Glaziers too, but there’s nothing that they will do to change that. Though the first few games have been bad I’ll admit. Should definetly be performing better. But I’m not asking for the sack. Maybe I am completely wrong and I’m not seeing it the right way.
 

Strelok

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Question is was it ever not toxic? Or is there any fanpage in the world not?
 

Nou_Camp99

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It's a reflection of how people feel. This great football club is crumbling. The days of us winning league titles and getting to CL finals are long long gone. When will we be back in contention for winning either? 5 years? 10 years? 20 years? Possibly never again unless they sell up.

I'm starting to think the happy fans who put on a brave face and pretend all is fine are now more the problem than the toxic ones tbh. You're the type of fans who will ensure we never get this regime out. They throw you a second hand bone on transfer deadline day and you accept it and look for positives instead of calling them out on it.

Our fanbase is so divided it's scary. Anyone who defends the Glazers or Ed Woodward in any remote sense is no United fan in my eyes.
 

Mihai

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A lot of the toxicity just originates from a sect of our fans having a cult like devotion to whoever our manager is. This was there under Moyes, Van Gaal and especially under Mourinho too.

Whenever the cult leader is under any type of pressure, the sect will burn down the entire club to deflect attention away from him.
I don't think that is the case, it's quite the opposite imo. It's more to do with the drama queens who act like we are doomed anytime something doesn't go according to their plan. You can start a thread on an unknown Australian player and sooner or later the thread will be full with comments against Ole, the squad, Woodward etc.
 

jackal&hyde

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Where else can you vent about United issues but a United forum. It's tough you just have to find threads that are less toxic. Once I have cooled down as I have from the weekend train wreck I avoid obvious land mines like Maguire and Ole threads.
This is the way to go imo. Especially after bad games i think it's healthy to avoid some threads because you will find no reasonable discussions there. Ole and Pogba threads in particular are terrible.
 

b82REZ

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We really do have a bunch of mard arses supporting this club. Any criticism is labelled as toxicity and debate is often killed by Top Reds declaring how much better they are than the rest of us mere mortals who dare questions the decisions and selection of a manager who is yet to prove his credentials for the job.

50% of the posts in any thread is people complaining about people complaining. That's what killing the Caf, not people airing their issues. That's what a forum is for.
 

romufc

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Just now the Maguire one, where someone is calling for a new captain at the club. Calling Maguire all the names under the sun over a 30 second clip of him calming Rashford down, accepting the ref's decision and getting the players to get back into the game again. (Again not the time to discuss it, go to the thread) - 30 seconds! They're basing his whole captaincy on 1 30 second clip. What's he gonna do shout and scream at the ref and get booked himself?
I dont condone personal attacks on players however, as a fan you should have the right to call out players who play badly. This may be a 30 second clip but I can guarantee you that it's not the sole reason people think he is not a captain.

The caf may be toxic but it does have fans who watch football, understand football. This is Manutd, look at the captains we have had in the past.

When your team mate gets sent off for what Martial did and Lamela didn't, you will be outraged and voice your concern to the ref in a passionate way. The way the captain conducts himself is how the team conducts itself.

We have a captain who is not leading by example, too passive. Compare that to the body language of say a Bruno, who shows alot more. We need a captain who does not like losing, which will filter to the rest of the players.

If the captain is making mistakes in every game, how is he going to have a go at any player?

In that game, I can isolate incidents where a captain should take charge.

1. Taken early lead - captain sets the tone, should calm the team down, take the sting out of spurs for few minutes, Instead he puts the team under pressure by not clearing lines.

2. Makes a silly needless foul after conceding a goal and lets the freekick to be taken.

3. Red card incident - No where to be seen putting pressure on the ref.

4. 2-1 down, man down. You have to sense the opponent is up for it now, they will be aggressive. Tell your goalie to kick it long and not invite pressure. Instead, no leadership.

Games like this is where we need our captain to stand up.
 

Matriac

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I agree. I was just thinking 15 mins ago that even though it's been a daily ritual for me to check this forum, more so during the transfer window, that for my own happiness I should probably stay away from this forum until our next game at least. No news can come out before then that will calm the masses. It's just spewing bile and negativity all around.

I know it's a cliche, but I thought supporters were supposed to be supporting. I'm a fan of Manchester United because I love the club and it makes me happy when we are winning and otherwise progressing. If we get a bad result I get sad, but I don't look to make the situation worse by slagging everyone off.

If you fecked up in your job, would you do better if someone tried to be supportive or if someone kept telling you how horrible you are?
(Of course changes has to be made if your feckups continue, but even then there's no reason to be yelling about it.)
 

georgipep

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Yeah one of the reasons I've been reading the site for the last 12 years is because the footballing discussion has always been way better than that of Reddit/twitter/other forums hence the large number of opposition fans.
The oppo fans also made the discussion relatively unbiased and gave me a good insight into how rational fans can discuss their teams (with the occasional understandable blowover).

But over the last few years this place has become disgusting, I come back every now and then but nowhere near as much as I used to. I used to genuinely love spending all day on here reading football discussion.

It does make you wonder with all the "russian troll" stuff going on in other sites if it's happening here too also...
For me it's the problem of scale and popularity. When redcafe wasn't as popular, it wasn't the homepage of the mass fans and thus it wasn't the arena for the toxic and reactionary commentary it is today.
 
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Our fanbase is so divided it's scary. Anyone who defends the Glazers or Ed Woodward in any remote sense is no United fan in my eyes.
An you see that’s part of the problem.

It’s an internet problem, that you can’t have a discussion, it’s your view and everything else is wrong.

So if I put forward reasons why we didn’t spend the money that you thought we should, and defended the fact that the club are being prudent (Glazers and Woodward) in a pandemic - then I’m not a fan?

How insane is that? It’s no longer a discussion with arguments and reasons.

I don’t want to get into a discussion about the ownership and running if the club. Plenty of threads for that, but can you see that taking such a universal stance doesn’t help?

There’s no problem is having different opinions. Surely that the great thing about a forum?