Ultimately it comes down to a combination of having a robust and solid defence, packed to the brim with legendary defenders. And in attack having the players who can make a difference. With 3 Ballon D'Or Winners in my front 4 - yes 3 (against TITO's zero) - we surely have the tools to win the match.
Redcafe Sheep Draft Final - Gio vs Thisistheone
- Thread starter Moby
- Start date
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Of course
In case it was lost on the other pages:
The Savicevic change
The plan is for Dejan to come on against tired legs after the work-rate and energy of Suarez had run Gio's boys hard all match. Now Dejan comes on with his immense dribbing ability, pace, skill and imagination. A direct player who can unlock even the meanest of defenses.
With Cafu bombing on and providing width, pulling Brehme away, Savicevic can drift centrally behind the midfield and look to drive at the defence, dribbling his way through before cutting it back for Scholes to finish on the edge of the area or a driving Stoichkov at the back post.
The dribbling of Savicevic alone will commit defenders and pull players out of position, opening gaps in the defensive line - seen here in his fantastic MOTM display against United.
What a player!
For those who'd like to read an excellent aricle on Savicevic:
Cafu, possibly the greatest attacking right back in history
The Savicevic change
The plan is for Dejan to come on against tired legs after the work-rate and energy of Suarez had run Gio's boys hard all match. Now Dejan comes on with his immense dribbing ability, pace, skill and imagination. A direct player who can unlock even the meanest of defenses.
With Cafu bombing on and providing width, pulling Brehme away, Savicevic can drift centrally behind the midfield and look to drive at the defence, dribbling his way through before cutting it back for Scholes to finish on the edge of the area or a driving Stoichkov at the back post.
The dribbling of Savicevic alone will commit defenders and pull players out of position, opening gaps in the defensive line - seen here in his fantastic MOTM display against United.
What a player!
For those who'd like to read an excellent aricle on Savicevic:
http://equaliserblog.wordpress.com/2011/08/24/dejan-savicevic-genius/
Genius is an overused word in football. Nowadays “geniuses” appear to be ten-a-penny, along with “legends” and “great” players. In reality the very essence of genius is its rarity, the creative spark which separates the best from the rest.
Some would scoff at the idea that footballers can be geniuses. In English football the word “genius” is most typically applied to players like Paul Gascoigne or Wayne Rooney, men who do not match the conventional intellectual profile of an Einstein or Newton. Yet few of the doubters would question the credentials of men such as Mozart or Picasso who excelled in non-academic spheres to be lauded with such a term.
Both music and art can draw clear links with the scientific fields that are more commonly associated with the idea of genius. The tempo of musical scores, the rhythm and the pitch all rely on physics and mathematics to create the ideal composition. In art the angles and lines, the sense of perfect proportion, depend on applied of mathematics and make clear why so many figures of the Renaissance were accomplished in scientific disciplines.
The very best footballers do the same which is why the ridicule often given to their intellectual capacities is so misplaced. The metronomic qualities of Xavi dictate the tempo of matches with the quality of the greatest composers. Michael Laudrup demonstrated a level of vision to rival the greatest artists, while the spatial awareness of Michel Platini was illustrative of great intelligence.
Dejan Savicevic was just such a player. His nimble footwork and ability to change direction at pace marked him out as one of the most graceful footballers of his generation. Where many of the best players see passes that do not appear to exist, Savicevic’s dribbling allowed him to find a way through defences which seemed impregnable. His balance, low centre of gravity and sheer doggedness allowed him to ride tackles, evade defenders and retain possession where lesser players would have tumbled.
Naturally dribbling was not the only string to Savicevic’s bow. His control was instant, while his left foot was like a wand in the spell it cast over a football. What set him apart from his rivals was the feeling that he was always one move ahead of his opponents. On countless occasions Savicevic appeared cornered only to somehow anticipate the challenges of defenders, to wriggle out of trouble and create mayhem in the opposing penalty area.
In addition his passing married vision with technique in a manner that only the best could do. In an era where playmakers still reigned supreme, Savicevic could rival the best of them for the range and variety of his passing. If ever something special was required to unlock the most stubborn defence the imagination of Savicevic in his prime was as likely to find the key as any of his competitors. No wonder then that many consider the Montenegrin one of football’s great geniuses.
Genius is an overused word in football. Nowadays “geniuses” appear to be ten-a-penny, along with “legends” and “great” players. In reality the very essence of genius is its rarity, the creative spark which separates the best from the rest.
Some would scoff at the idea that footballers can be geniuses. In English football the word “genius” is most typically applied to players like Paul Gascoigne or Wayne Rooney, men who do not match the conventional intellectual profile of an Einstein or Newton. Yet few of the doubters would question the credentials of men such as Mozart or Picasso who excelled in non-academic spheres to be lauded with such a term.
Both music and art can draw clear links with the scientific fields that are more commonly associated with the idea of genius. The tempo of musical scores, the rhythm and the pitch all rely on physics and mathematics to create the ideal composition. In art the angles and lines, the sense of perfect proportion, depend on applied of mathematics and make clear why so many figures of the Renaissance were accomplished in scientific disciplines.
The very best footballers do the same which is why the ridicule often given to their intellectual capacities is so misplaced. The metronomic qualities of Xavi dictate the tempo of matches with the quality of the greatest composers. Michael Laudrup demonstrated a level of vision to rival the greatest artists, while the spatial awareness of Michel Platini was illustrative of great intelligence.
Dejan Savicevic was just such a player. His nimble footwork and ability to change direction at pace marked him out as one of the most graceful footballers of his generation. Where many of the best players see passes that do not appear to exist, Savicevic’s dribbling allowed him to find a way through defences which seemed impregnable. His balance, low centre of gravity and sheer doggedness allowed him to ride tackles, evade defenders and retain possession where lesser players would have tumbled.
Naturally dribbling was not the only string to Savicevic’s bow. His control was instant, while his left foot was like a wand in the spell it cast over a football. What set him apart from his rivals was the feeling that he was always one move ahead of his opponents. On countless occasions Savicevic appeared cornered only to somehow anticipate the challenges of defenders, to wriggle out of trouble and create mayhem in the opposing penalty area.
In addition his passing married vision with technique in a manner that only the best could do. In an era where playmakers still reigned supreme, Savicevic could rival the best of them for the range and variety of his passing. If ever something special was required to unlock the most stubborn defence the imagination of Savicevic in his prime was as likely to find the key as any of his competitors. No wonder then that many consider the Montenegrin one of football’s great geniuses.
Cafu, possibly the greatest attacking right back in history
Time to unleash the unvote monster?
Of course
Final minutes mate, All the best!
Time to unleash the unvote monster?
And it's over!
Congrats, Gio!
And tough luck TITO and Theon, a brilliant effort!
Congrats, Gio!
And tough luck TITO and Theon, a brilliant effort!
Good game TITO.
Damn
Three finals I've lost now, I'm glad Gio won though he's great in these.
Three finals I've lost now, I'm glad Gio won though he's great in these.
Thought it was going to be a landslide at the start after I went 4-1 down.
Gutted! One vote. Must have been a bit of Romario magic, getting to a low cross just a split second ahead of Montero, but ultimitely enough to decide the match. Fine margins!
Well played Gio. Brilliant team you built.
Theon, I'm sorry man! So close yet again. You still have an incredible record in these drafts though. It's been a pleasure as always working with you.
And finally a huge thanks to Aldo for organizing the whole thing. Absolutely top effort mate.
Edit: And to complete the little oscar r/up speech, thanks to all who voted!
Well played Gio. Brilliant team you built.
Theon, I'm sorry man! So close yet again. You still have an incredible record in these drafts though. It's been a pleasure as always working with you.
And finally a huge thanks to Aldo for organizing the whole thing. Absolutely top effort mate.
Edit: And to complete the little oscar r/up speech, thanks to all who voted!
It all changed with the Redondo stuff, most if which I thought was nonsense
Great game and well done Gio.
TITO and Theon I loved how you built your team around Totti, done it brilliantly. And the rest of your team was brilliant too.
Great job both of you
TITO and Theon I loved how you built your team around Totti, done it brilliantly. And the rest of your team was brilliant too.
Great job both of you
Just seen this - Stoichkov won the Ballon d'Or
On the final whistle it all kicks off! Simeone celebrates in front of TITO and Theon in the opposition dugout:
On the park, Totti gobs on Rivaldo. The Brazilian goes down holding his face, even though Totti's phlegm landed on his foot.
Sensing his opportunity, Suarez goes to bite Bergomi. But the uncompromising Italian gives him the death stare and the little rat scuttles off to hide in the changing rooms.
Meanwhile in the post-match press conference, Sol Campbell hijacks Gio's celebrations to bend the journos' ears about his new book:
On the park, Totti gobs on Rivaldo. The Brazilian goes down holding his face, even though Totti's phlegm landed on his foot.
Sensing his opportunity, Suarez goes to bite Bergomi. But the uncompromising Italian gives him the death stare and the little rat scuttles off to hide in the changing rooms.
Meanwhile in the post-match press conference, Sol Campbell hijacks Gio's celebrations to bend the journos' ears about his new book:
Quality!
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@AldoPaine18 Great draft dude! Enjoyable debut to the warzone for me.
Now that it's over I can answer this properly. Yeah my ideal world plan was to get Redondo and Romario in the last reinforcement stage: those two would have essentially nailed the team. When TITO chose Redondo I had to go down a different, counter-based route. I wanted to leave him Maldini so that the centre of defence wasn't reinforced to deal with Romario, even though it meant allowing him a big Maldini - Pessotto upgrade. In retrospect perhaps Sammer would've been a better ball-playing option, although I'm always reluctant to pick him unless the base of a team can be built around him.
From our point of view, we said that if Gio landed Redondo, it was game over. The only way we could win was to get Redondo and then hopefully he'd leave Maldini.
I think Gio would have beaten us if we'd met at the semi-finals stages as well.
I think Gio would have beaten us if we'd met at the semi-finals stages as well.
Congrats guys, both finalists did a great job. I wasn't as excited about teams as I have been otherwise in general. But in the final I was really impressed with how both of you saw the demand for a change and acted quickly.
Bergomi-Desailly-Kohler with Brehme in an completely free role? fecking nasty as it gets.
Simeone and Davids ahead of them? What a great defense to build a counter-attacking side on. Absolutely top notch.
TITO of course got Makelele in and that midfield looks really good. I think Redondo got a bit of flack for no reason as the lone DM in a possession dominating team. I don't agree with the fact that every team needs destroyer DM's to be able to play football.
Bergomi-Desailly-Kohler with Brehme in an completely free role? fecking nasty as it gets.
Simeone and Davids ahead of them? What a great defense to build a counter-attacking side on. Absolutely top notch.
TITO of course got Makelele in and that midfield looks really good. I think Redondo got a bit of flack for no reason as the lone DM in a possession dominating team. I don't agree with the fact that every team needs destroyer DM's to be able to play football.
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The Redondo stuff was garbage and so exaggerated IMO. Aye he's not as solid as Makelele but he's in no sense the liability he was made out to be.
We needed Rivaldo to really win this I think, he would have been perfect for the inside forward role in a way that none of the other top players were - Zidane, Laudrup, Romario.
We went for Henry twice in the drafting stage as well - he would have been perfect. As it was there just wasn't the necessary upgrades for that front line.
We needed Rivaldo to really win this I think, he would have been perfect for the inside forward role in a way that none of the other top players were - Zidane, Laudrup, Romario.
We went for Henry twice in the drafting stage as well - he would have been perfect. As it was there just wasn't the necessary upgrades for that front line.
Yep. In fairness you did say early on that persisting with the Totti 433 will end up causing us problems further down the line in terms of upgrades. I loved this side though and glad we stuck with it. Some players have really got their due in this draft. Notably Totti, Savicevic, Montero and Ferrara. Really enjoyed seeing the love for that Juventus back line of the 90s.
Probably a good thing this was all far too early for me. I had it down as a draw and probably would have unvoted. Or not, after all the Simeone nonsense.
Good game overall, interesting rationale for upgrades Gio... Evil stuff
I think that Nedved-Brehme upgrade is what won it for you. As I mentioned then, you went from only two players participating in attack and recovery to four, while balancing the flanks. Massive.
Unlucky Tito. As I said earlier, I've been a big supporter, even if you clearly haven't noticed. I don't really care about Cafú/Maldini/Redondo, they always get a lot of bumming and yadayada, I think the great thing is how many players you had who aren't often particularly highly rated but how jointly they worked brilliantly. Totti and Scholes had the sort of tourno they deserved to get, that Juve core three as well despite being found wanting against Romario (just about), and the two Eastern Europeans Suárez being current hurt him but he was perfect there. The selection headache across them three is a testament to how well suited they were to their roles. This was also the best setup I've seen for Makelele, as I think I made abundantly clear
Good game overall, interesting rationale for upgrades Gio... Evil stuff
I think that Nedved-Brehme upgrade is what won it for you. As I mentioned then, you went from only two players participating in attack and recovery to four, while balancing the flanks. Massive.Unlucky Tito. As I said earlier, I've been a big supporter, even if you clearly haven't noticed. I don't really care about Cafú/Maldini/Redondo, they always get a lot of bumming and yadayada, I think the great thing is how many players you had who aren't often particularly highly rated but how jointly they worked brilliantly. Totti and Scholes had the sort of tourno they deserved to get, that Juve core three as well despite being found wanting against Romario (just about), and the two Eastern Europeans
Suárez being current hurt him but he was perfect there. The selection headache across them three is a testament to how well suited they were to their roles. This was also the best setup I've seen for Makelele, as I think I made abundantly clear Aye, was just writing very much that.
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I wondered what Tito was replying to...You clearly didn't understand the Makelele-Redondo discussion. Let's leave it at that.
I only just remembered Henry, we kept bumping into each other, precisely because I was planning to end up playing 4-3-3 with Henry, Bergkamp and hopefully Stoichkov. Yes, Henry was perfect for that role. Once you missed out on him in the reinforcements you probably should have left him unblocked so he could get through and be picked up later (I would have had him and released him two rounds ago).
Actually, I did exactly that with Romario, funny how not blocking him panned out
You complete gimpHere you go again with the name-calling... That's why you are on ignore
I said Redondo was less suited than Makelele for that role, and that Scholes should still be running the show.
I never said Redondo was a bad player or anything of the sort, quite simply that you were misusing your squad and shoe-horning him into the side.
As it turns out, several people agreed, including a Real fan who would indeed be best placed to make an unbiased call on their relative merit.
You then changed the formation and everyone agreed it was better.
Go figure.
My main gripe was the way you went about it. You completely stole the thread, posting more than the two managers who were actually participating the final and started calling us "Spastics" and said we were destroying the spine of our side. Basically just going WAY over the top and potentially spoiling the final. Other posters who didn't agree simply went about it in a much better way. It calmed down again once you went and we had good fun at the end fencing with Gio.
Then there was the odd, constant references to Theon, confirming that you have some weird obsession with him.
There's a smugness as well that I really don't like. You seem to think you're superior to everyone else yet if you did actually know as much as you claim, you would have won every draft going instead of crashing out early, picking a side that was far from great, having multiple brain-farts such as that graphic you drew which made you look vulnerable to Gio's counter, and then to top if off the most cringe-worthy thing I've seen on the caf - About to lose the game so you tag in a load of Arsenal fans to win votes. Not just poor sportsmanship, but really quite sad.
I made a prediction to Theon before this game:
Anyway, that's off my chest now and I leave it there. Whenever I do get involved in a draft again I think it's best we try and keep out of each others way.
Then there was the odd, constant references to Theon, confirming that you have some weird obsession with him.
There's a smugness as well that I really don't like. You seem to think you're superior to everyone else yet if you did actually know as much as you claim, you would have won every draft going instead of crashing out early, picking a side that was far from great, having multiple brain-farts such as that graphic you drew which made you look vulnerable to Gio's counter, and then to top if off the most cringe-worthy thing I've seen on the caf - About to lose the game so you tag in a load of Arsenal fans to win votes. Not just poor sportsmanship, but really quite sad.
I made a prediction to Theon before this game:
Turns out I was spot on there. I didn't quite bite my tongue sadly, but it was sad. Sadly predictable.
Anyway, that's off my chest now and I leave it there. Whenever I do get involved in a draft again I think it's best we try and keep out of each others way.
Aye, agree with that. Bergomi was also important: every right-footed attacker he came up against - Baggio, Cavani, Suarez - favoured the space where he excelled most - the channel between full-back and centre-half.Good game overall, interesting rationale for upgrades Gio... Evil stuff
I think Anto is a bit misunderstood. He has a way of portraying his opinion as pure facts, but if you call him on it he admits it is an opinion.
But if you just read it, it seems as if he is hundred percent sure that what he thinks is actually correct - when in reality of course he leaves room for argument.
I've had plenty of arguments with Anto in threads or in PM's after he criticized a pick or my team as a whole. We often land somewhere in between our opinions even if they are most often similar. He was for example the first to slate my picks in the all-time draft, but as my picks were some of my own favorites that I had a at least better than average grasp on, we had a good discussion about it - and he saw where I was coming from with the picks.
I also saw where he was coming from and he was probably the reason Leonidas wasn't playing every game until the end.
My perception has always been that he is a bit of a hedgehog, on the outside all spikes, but when he opens up he shows he's just a cutie in disguise.
I always just add a "In my opinion" at the start of every Anto post - then everything makes sense, as it is really just an opinion in his mind too.
But if you just read it, it seems as if he is hundred percent sure that what he thinks is actually correct - when in reality of course he leaves room for argument.
I've had plenty of arguments with Anto in threads or in PM's after he criticized a pick or my team as a whole. We often land somewhere in between our opinions even if they are most often similar. He was for example the first to slate my picks in the all-time draft, but as my picks were some of my own favorites that I had a at least better than average grasp on, we had a good discussion about it - and he saw where I was coming from with the picks.
I also saw where he was coming from and he was probably the reason Leonidas wasn't playing every game until the end.
My perception has always been that he is a bit of a hedgehog, on the outside all spikes, but when he opens up he shows he's just a cutie in disguise.
I always just add a "In my opinion" at the start of every Anto post - then everything makes sense, as it is really just an opinion in his mind too.
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I won't bother Tito, again you make it all personal. You called me an idiot and an embarrassment before I said the R.Carlos thing was "a spastic argument", which is in no way an attack on you but the flaws in the argument. Here you go again banging on about what I do right or wrong, last time I checked this was supposed to be for the fun of drafting a side with players you liked, not about picking a team that would win a popularity contest. If I took it seriously as a popularity contest I sure wouldn't go around winding people up, or do you think I'm not aware I do? I just find it more fun, some get it, some don't.
Your turning into a Theon Mini-me is now complete. Shame because I always quite liked you and the way you went about things.
Your turning into a Theon Mini-me is now complete. Shame because I always quite liked you and the way you went about things.
That's a good summary. The way he portrays his opinion as facts does rub several people the wrong way.
Aye, I know. You would think it's not necessary to start every post with IMO on a forum to discuss football.
Football.
Again, football...
Of course it's all opinions.
Was reading a few posts there thinking to myself where is the love. Then a few seconds later the Black Eyed Peas song of the same name came on the radio. Hadn't heard it in years. Weird
Congrats Gio, unlucky Tito.
Both have assembled really good teams, Gios performance in the thread was great though, battled off both Tito and Theon. Theon has a habit of starting every other response with a '' which is difficult/annoying to argue against too but he managed perfectly.
Agree with Anto that 'IMO' shouldn't be needed at the beginning of every post also.
Both have assembled really good teams, Gios performance in the thread was great though, battled off both Tito and Theon. Theon has a habit of starting every other response with a '
' which is difficult/annoying to argue against too but he managed perfectly.Agree with Anto that 'IMO' shouldn't be needed at the beginning of every post also.