Redcafe Sheep Draft - Stobzilla vs antohan

[Moby]

The aim of this poll is to decide the winner in this fantasy game contested between two sides assembled through the method of drafting. For the purpose of this game, all players would be considered as being at their respective peaks. I invite all posters to go through the formations, tactics and arguments that will follow in the thread and kindly leave their vote. Thanks.

Stobzilla's tactics

Little needs to be said about any of my players, they are all amongst the best in their selected positions given the time frame we were working within. I can't see a weak link. No doubt Antohan will.

The Plan

Your standard 3-5-2/5-3-2 with a extremely strong back 3, Busquets inclined to sitting in front of the defence Yaya going Box To Box with Beckham and Mihajlovic roaming up and down the left and right flanks all day.

All attacking outlets are covered, I can go wide and knock crosses in with my wingers, one of those outlets is probably considered the greatest of all time at doing so. Or I can play a patient possession game through the middle. Utilising one of the better number 10's in the world currently, along with a certified world class striker, also lauded for his ability to drop off the front and get involved in general play.

This is all spearheaded right up top by a Ballon D'or winner in George Weah, a powerful, pacey goal machine equally capable of finishing off team efforts or coming up with an individual bit of magic. Few are better suited to the all around attacking threat I possess.

I don't know if this goes against the "spirit of the draft" or whatever but I very much want to focus on my teams strengths rather than any perceived weaknesses of my opponent. I want my guys to go out and play to their strengths. I am not fussed on the hyperbole and trying to talk players of obvious quality down. Antohan has put together a good side, I feel mine is better and would get the job done over 90 minutes.

The Apology

I know this seems sparse, I had planned on doing detailed individual player profiles complete with the requisite youtube videos, I have been struck with flu and not been at it the last couple of days though. However I do feel my team speaks for itself, we all know what my guys are capable of. I am sorry though and will look to correct it next round should I pass through.

Also, with regards to the graphic, Beckham and Mihajlovic are going to be sitting slightly further back than what is represented on the screen, Blanc also will be acting more as a sweeper I did that graphic quickly to get the game underway and not mess about with the schedule.

All the best to Antohan, I hope for a good fun match. I will try and put up a fight in my sweaty shivery condition.

Team Stobzilla

Team antohan

Starting formation

Spoiler

​

antohan's tactics

A beauty of a 4-2-3-1:

• A goalkeeper who excelled for his agility and reflexes, and particularly his aerial command intercepting crosses.
• Two outstanding all-round fullbacks equally effective in attack and defense.
• Two strong defenders with an excellent reading of the game not just to spot danger but opportunities upon recovery, and able to execute the required pinpoint passes.
• Two complete CMs who will boss the midfield and were also adept at playing on their respective flanks, which will be useful as Stobzilla packs the midfield and covering needs occasionally arise.
• Two great wingers, one more elegant, the other more of a mazy dribbler, but both equally effective at tearing defences apart.
• A striker who is the complete package to lead the line with pace, power, dribbling, finishing from any range and a strong aerial presence.
• Dennis Bergkamp pulling strings and making it all gel together so that individual brilliance translates into collective brilliance.

There’s not a single one of my defenders and midfielders who didn’t stand out for excellence in the accuracy and range of their passing. They are all comfortable with one touch play where required, but this does not mean they are going to go all tiki taka and dominate possession. No, their disposition and the reason they have been picked is they went vertical or diagonal but, inexorably, goalbound.

Key battles:

1. Brehme and Ginola vs. Beckham and Stam being dragged wide. Only one winner there. Brehme will be comfortable dealing with a Beckham who will be sorely missing his overlapping Gaz.
2. Sagnol and Robben vs. Mihajlovic and de Boer being dragged wide. Robben alone would just skin them all day. Without the ball I expect Mihajlovic to stay in midfield watching his back and crossing from deep, so Robben will stay on him and Sagnol will tuck in to support the CBs.
3. With the wingers dragging the other two, Blanc has his work cut out minding Cavani. No room for error, or for covering if –when- they get beaten. At the other end, there's two strikers being dealt with by 2 CBs with Sagnol in close support and nothing out wide threatening to drag them all over the pitch.
   
4. Bergkamp-Schweini-Cocu vs. Mata-Yaya-Busquets. Both on the ball and recovering my trio is stronger. The best chance he has there is Busquets, who is pivoting from deep, where Bergkamp could get support from Cavani if needed.
5. Much will be made of the excellent set piece takers in this game, and rightly so. The question though is, who is most likely to be conceding free kicks and penos here? Those two Dutchmen left stranded by my wingers, IMO. In Koeman I have the greatest goalscoring defender in history with 239 career goals and the penalty taker to hold the top league record for most consecutive successful conversions (25).

How I win:

Stobzilla’s side isn’t particularly creative or fluid, it shouldn’t be a big ask to shut down any service to the frontmen. I can’t be shut down though, everyone is playing in a system that brings the best out of them, they are all able to execute the transition to attack and I don't rely on any single one of them for it. As a result, I will be far more effective in my use of the ball and will create far more goalscoring opportunities.

Simple really, 3-1 if he gets lucky.

PLAYER PROFILES

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

First in. Blocked

 

[Ish]

Tough one. Though Beckham at RWB Stobzilla? Ginola & Robben might get a lot of joy.

 

[Stobzilla]

Tough one. Though Beckham at RWB Stobzilla? Ginola & Robben might get a lot of joy.

It's certainly possible, they are both very good, but we all know Beckham very rarely committed too far forward (so as to be caught out of position defensively) and can be dangerous crossing from deep in order to not do so, you also have to consider how much ground he is capable of covering, seems to me at least he wouldn't have much bother adapting given his skill set.

 

[Ish]

It's certainly possible, they are both very good, but we all know Beckham very rarely committed too far forward and can be dangerous crossing from deep in order to not do so, you also have to consider how much ground he is capable of covering, seems to me at least he wouldn't have much bother adapting given his skill set.

Agreed, though he's going to need quite a bit of help from either one of the CB's or a midfielder, because I wouldn't have too much faith in him 1 v 1 against a winger, especially a peak Ginola.

Great match up though.

 

[sun_tzu]

popescu and koeman are great with the ball and one of them alongside another cb would be fine... Im just not convinced both could play together - particularly against weah

 

[Stobzilla]

Agreed, though he's going to need quite a bit of help from either one of the CB's or a midfielder, because I wouldn't have too much faith in him 1 v 1 against a winger, especially a peak Ginola.

Great match up though.

Agreed, for my money at least, Anto would probably tell you different and why he will sweep me aside 8-0

 

[sajeev]

I think Stobs has done a really great job with his 3-5-2 and as he says the players and the set-up speak for itself.
however, i then look at the team he is playing against, and think maybe 3-5-2 could end up being a weakness with Beckham as RWB.
once again both managers have done a great job of drafting and setting their teams up.
at this point of time, i am inclined towards anothan's team - because of the creativity and pace in attack

 

[VivaJanuzaj]

I actually think Robben will find this task extremely difficult, he's cutting inside, and instead of going to a LB's weaker foot he meets De Boer at a very comfortable position.
That being said, the midfield battle is really interesting, Schweinsteiger-Cocu against Yaya-Bosquets.. On the one hand Schweinsteiger and Cocu are a perfect match, whereas Bosquets is too defensive for a 5-3-2 imo, but Mata will work harder in the midfield battle than Bergkamp..
Looking forward to hear some thoughts from anto too.

 

[Balu]

Tough one. Though Beckham at RWB Stobzilla? Ginola & Robben might get a lot of joy.

Most of the time, it should be de Boer vs Robben and Stam vs Ginola. Brehme vs Beckham is an interesting matchup though. I can see Cavani causing Blanc a lot of problems, dragging him out wide with his movement and then Bergkamp exploiting those gaps. On the other hand, I'm not entirely sold on Koeman + Popescu in defense against those two strikers with Yaya making runs into the box.

Great match-up, should be an exciting game.

 

[Ish]

Most of the time, it should be de Boer vs Robben and Stam vs Ginola. Brehme vs Beckham is an interesting matchup though. I can see Cavani causing Blanc a lot of problems, dragging him out wide with his movement and then Bergkamp exploiting those gaps. On the other hand, I'm not entirely sold on Koeman + Popescu in defense against those two strikers with Yaya making runs into the box.

Great match-up, should be an exciting game.

Agreed with this. Hence I think it's a very close match up. The first thing a ton of posters will recognise though is Beckham "out of position" and that might sway some.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

anto will definitely score, but then with Beckham crossing for RvP/Weah, so will Stob.

That being said, the midfield battle is really interesting, Schweinsteiger-Cocu against Yaya-Bosquets.. On the one hand Schweinsteiger and Cocu are a perfect match, whereas Bosquets is too defensive for a 5-3-2 imo, but Mata will work harder in the midfield battle than Bergkamp..

With Beckham and Mihajlovic, I see it more as a 3-5-2, so Busquets defensiveness is a plus for me here and this defensiveness allows Yaya to make his runs into the box too. I like better than Cocu/Schweini.

Too even.


and I'm not that comfortable with

• Two complete CMs who will boss the midfield and were also adept at playing on their respective flanks, which will be useful as Stobzilla packs the midfield and covering needs occasionally arise.

Facing 2 strikers and no DM's with Beckham on flanks, this will be bad!

 

[Stobzilla]

Agreed with this. Hence I think it's a very close match up. The first thing a ton of posters will recognise though is Beckham "out of position" and that might sway some.

It is a 3-5-2 essentially, I just added the bit about pushing them back slightly in to get a mental picture, I do see Mihajlovic and Beckham as LM and RM respectively. Just had to come up with some sort of visual representation that they won't be shirking their defensive duties.

 

[Ish]

It is a 3-5-2 essentially, I just added the bit about pushing them back slightly in to get a mental picture, I do see Mihajlovic and Beckham as LM and RM respectively. Just had to come up with some sort of visual representation that they won't be shirking their defensive duties.

Nah, it's a excellent set up. Just thought I'd point out what I suspect most people will immediately recognise.

 

[Theon]

popescu and koeman are great with the ball and one of them alongside another cb would be fine... Im just not convinced both could play together - particularly against weah

These were my first thoughts as well, not the most complementary partnership really.

 

[Cutch]

popescu and koeman are great with the ball and one of them alongside another cb would be fine... Im just not convinced both could play together - particularly against weah

Most of the time, it should be de Boer vs Robben and Stam vs Ginola. Brehme vs Beckham is an interesting matchup though. I can see Cavani causing Blanc a lot of problems, dragging him out wide with his movement and then Bergkamp exploiting those gaps. On the other hand, I'm not entirely sold on Koeman + Popescu in defense against those two strikers with Yaya making runs into the box.

Great match-up, should be an exciting game.

These were my first thoughts as well, not the most complementary partnership really.

Good to see i'm not the only one that thought this. Was surprised Anto went with Popescu at the time.

 

[VivaJanuzaj]

Good to see i'm not the only one that thought this. Was surprised Anto went with Popescu at the time.

Anto actually really thinks they compliment each other perfectly. He talked about it several times, with Koeman staying back at times as the "sole CB" while Popescu makes runs forward like he loved, and Koeman as he knew how to stay as the only CB.

 

[Theon]

Good to see i'm not the only one that thought this. Was surprised Anto went with Popescu at the time.

His first choice to partner Koeman was Ruggeri IIRC who was blocked by Gio.

Kind of says it all really because he's nothing like Popescu.

 

[antohan]

This is all spearheaded right up top by a Ballon D'or winner in George Weah, a powerful, pacey goal machine

As good a player as he was, he was no goal machine. In his best seasons he average about 12 goals in Serie A while the Serie A top scorers (the likes of Batistuta, Inzaghi, Bierhoff and Montella) averaged twice as many.

 

[Stobzilla]

Ah grand, I was wondering when you were going to show up to take the piss.

 

[VivaJanuzaj]

As good a player as he was, he was no goal machine. In his best seasons he average about 12 goals in Serie A while the Serie A top scorers (the likes of Batistuta, Inzaghi, Bierhoff and Montella) averaged twice as many.

That's a good point..

 

[Stobzilla]

In any case, he was a beast and he does have a modern day complete forward next to him.

 

[antohan]

popescu and koeman are great with the ball and one of them alongside another cb would be fine... Im just not convinced both could play together - particularly against weah

Good to see i'm not the only one that thought this. Was surprised Anto went with Popescu at the time.

Leaving aside Koeman, who was comfortable as a single CB, I guess the question is who is the ideal partner. Sure, I could have gone with a dedicated stopper alongside him and considered Kohler and Ruggeri. The latter I wasn't really sold on because by then I had lost Guardiola and Popescu suddenly looked extremely handy for his ability to fill in that DM role or the Koeman CB partner role.

I understand the concern that it's not the "ball player + stopper" pair people usually go for. I fail to see though in what way Popescu could be a defensive "problem" at all. If anyone care to explain why Popescu is a "bad defender" despite all the real-life evidence to the contrary I'll be happy to look into it.

On the other hand, I'm not entirely sold on Koeman + Popescu in defense against those two strikers with Yaya making runs into the box.

Yaya and Mata are being tracked by the midfielders. You should also bear in mind that Sagnol is tucking in in support of both CBs. Keeps an eye on the flank, sure, but Mihajlovic won't be attacking that, will largely be playing from deeper positions and Robben has been instructed to stay on him when Stob has the ball.

Anto actually really thinks they compliment each other perfectly. He talked about it several times, with Koeman staying back at times as the "sole CB" while Popescu makes runs forward like he loved, and Koeman as he knew how to stay as the only CB.

I don't expect or ask him to be doing much of that running forward here. In other games and against different frontlines that would have been an option but he has a defending job to do here, first and foremost.

 

[antohan]

I actually think Robben will find this task extremely difficult, he's cutting inside, and instead of going to a LB's weaker foot he meets De Boer at a very comfortable position.

Robben will cut inside or go to the byline, he's perfectly capable of doing either. He also has Sagnol overlapping.

I don't see how Robben running at you could be described as a "comfortable position". He can't come out to meet him because he will dribble past him and skins him for pace, and if he stays deep he is basically letting him get in the danger zone and within shooting/dangerous assist distance.

That being said, the midfield battle is really interesting, Schweinsteiger-Cocu against Yaya-Bosquets.. On the one hand Schweinsteiger and Cocu are a perfect match, whereas Bosquets is too defensive for a 5-3-2 imo, but Mata will work harder in the midfield battle than Bergkamp..
Looking forward to hear some thoughts from anto too.

I thinkt he formation picture isn't entirely accurate and even their description indicates Yaya is pushing forward while Busquets seats back as a pivot. It's really Yaya and Mata that Schweini and Cocu are concerning themselves with and, as I explained, if Busquets was having too much freedom 1. Bergkamp will get a bollocking if he is doing nothing about it, 2. if it's pertinent when recovering I can always have Cavani dropping deeper and swapping with Bergkamp to deal with that, he has a terrific defensive workrate as has been displayed several times for the national team.

 

[antohan]

anto will definitely score, but then with Beckham crossing for RvP/Weah, so will Stob.

I mentioned it in the tactics but it seems to have been ignored. Gaz was a big part of Beckham, he is not someone with pace or who will get past a man, he relied on the overlapping fullback to do that. Without him, while he has a great engine and won't be immobile, he is effectively a sitting duck for someone like Brehme. Can't see him having much joy at all.

and I'm not that comfortable with

Facing 2 strikers and no DM's with Beckham on flanks, this will be bad!

I don't understand what you are getting at, care to elaborate?

 

[antohan]

Ah grand, I was wondering when you were going to show up to take the piss.

I'm not taking the piss, it's factual.

I notice your entire line of argument seems to be "Anto is a big bad wolf who will say bad things about my players". It's not a bad angle to try garner sympathy votes. It actually works.

 

[antohan]

In any case, he was a beast and he does have a modern day complete forward next to him.

As I said: "as good a player as he was, he wasn't a goal machine"

 

[Stobzilla]

I'm not taking the piss, it's factual.

I notice your entire line of argument seems to be "Anto is a big bad wolf who will say bad things about my players". It's not a bad angle to try garner sympathy votes. It actually works.

I'm messing you excitable fella you.

 

[Stobzilla]

As I said: "as good a player as he was, he wasn't a goal machine"

I'm taking this as an admission that he'll dick on your whole team, you saw him folks.

 

[antohan]

Most of the time, it should be de Boer vs Robben and Stam vs Ginola. Brehme vs Beckham is an interesting matchup though. I can see Cavani causing Blanc a lot of problems, dragging him out wide with his movement and then Bergkamp exploiting those gaps.

Couldn't agree more. Forget Ginola, Beckham has his work cut out dealing with Brehme and Mihajlovic with Sagnol. Which means both outside CBs will keep being dragged into no man's land to deal with the winger.

Unless you are following the surreal draft logic where wingers having a man assigned means it's all fine, you would agree that Robben and Ginola will get past them a fair few times. What does Blanc do then? Deal with the guy running through on goal or keep tight with Cavani? fecked if you do, fecked if you don't.

At the other end though I have two CBs on two strikers, the AM/box-to-box men both have someone tracking them and Sagnol is a spare in support. It's a much more manageable situation if any one of them is beaten.

In any case, Stobzilla admits himself Plan A is to cross, cross, cross. I have the perfect keeper to deal with that. The only regret I ahve from the entire draft is not having left blocking aside in the last attempt of the last round and spared Pinocchio the heartache of being left out. But then, for this game, the way it's laid out, he would have been on the bench, that's how good Lama was at dealing with crosses.

 

[antohan]

I'm taking this as an admission that he'll dick on your whole team, you saw him folks.

No, it's an admission you have two frontmen which merit Popescu not playing DM or fecking about as a libero.

 

[Stobzilla]

Would you admit to having problems dealing with Mata popping up here there and everywhere. With even an iota of time he can pick out the intelligently moving RVP or just try and have Weah burn you. The movement of those two is going to be troublesome no ?

 

[VivaJanuzaj]

@antohan Care to participate in my matchday thread too?

 

[antohan]

Would you admit to having problems dealing with Mata popping up here there and everywhere. With even an iota of time he can pick out the intelligently moving RVP or just try and have Weah burn you. The movement of those two is going to be troublesome no ?

As I said, I have a spare man in Sagnol who can tuck in while keeping an eye on tracking either RvP or Mata peeling wide without that dragging someone out of position.

I would be more worried about the movement of my forwards. See below the defensive setup without ball.

The arrows indicate the runs/availability for a pass from deep to trigger a counter. Both Robben and Brehme have significantly more pace than Becks and Sinister Sinisa.

 

[Stobzilla]

If I now had access to this 11 I'd be just as able to do something similar, if Sagnol does decide to be an overlapping full back as well as a 3rd centre back then he leaves as much space open down that channel. Brahma meanwhile if he does get caught on the hop chasing down Becks then the pace arugument means little as his range of passing and speed of thought means he can deliver and start counters from pretty much anywhere

 

[Stobzilla]

Oh, and "nazi"

Classy.

 

[antohan]

if Sagnol does decide to be an overlapping full back as well as a 3rd centre back then he leaves as much space open down that channel.

Not a third CB, just a RB tucking in because there's no immediate threat out wide except that which could come from central players peeling wide. It's what he did for his entire career. Go figure.

Brahma meanwhile if he does get caught on the hop chasing down Becks then the pace arugument means little as his range of passing and speed of thought means he can deliver and start counters from pretty much anywhere

I didn't quite get the point here. When I attack Becks is chasing Brehme, when/if you get the ball back... Brehme is already there or thereabouts wherever Becks happens to be, and he stays on him. Beckham not getting the ball and not being able to put in a cross is Brehme's job, a job he will excel at. Beckham is effectively ruled out fo the game the way I see it. Without a fullback supporting him, he is in a pickle really.

 

[antohan]

Oh, and "nazi"

Classy.

I'm messing with you excitable fella

 

[Stobzilla]

Not a third CB, just a RB tucking in because there's no immediate threat out wide except that which could come from central players peeling wide. It's what he did for his entire career. Go figure.



I didn't quite get the point here. When I attack Becks is chasing Brehme, when/if you get the ball back... Brehme is already there or thereabouts wherever Becks happens to be, and he stays on him. Beckham not getting the ball and not being able to put in a cross is Brehme's job, a job he will excel at. Beckham is effectively ruled out fo the game the way I see it. Without a fullback supporting him, he is in a pickle really.

Don't agree naturally but there is a big gaping hole to exploit if Brehme is going to be bombing forward, all Mata has to do is drift into it and Beckham can find him.

 

[Stobzilla]

Not a third CB, just a RB tucking in because there's no immediate threat out wide except that which could come from central players peeling wide. It's what he did for his entire career. Go figure.

So Mihajlovic is going to sit on the half way line the entire game when we go forwards and only move to chase Sagnol back ?

I'll give you Sagnol tucking in in that case, all Sinisa needs is to be 25-30 yards away from the by-line, if you aren't going to him he's waving his wand of a left foot in the open. Quite happy with that.