Exactly. Spot on mate.That was a fairly solid elbow tbf. Way more of a foul than McT’s gentle flick.
Exactly. Spot on mate.That was a fairly solid elbow tbf. Way more of a foul than McT’s gentle flick.
Jesus. Carnage. I’d say that went down well!I’m 6”1 and gave one kid a nose bleed and one a fat lip on the dads v lads match at the end of the season. It’s about running style.Pogba has an odd chicken wing motion with his arms. He’ll catch people. It’s not flailing, or forceful. It wasn’t a potential red, it might be considered a foul at worst.
Don't know about that but those are the rules apparently. You can only use it if it's is to change a red card offence to a yellow so was that incident not looked at as a possible red card offence? Hence it being changed from red to yellow? This was never being looked at as a red card offence hence not being able to give him a yellow.Well that's cant be true is it?because Shaw got booked against Burnley or someone earlier when we scored and they pulled it back for the fk.
No. United scored a goal, and it was pulled wayyyy back for a fk and yellow card for Shaw. Neville was on commentry saying he thought it was a red if you remember?Don't know about that but those are the rules apparently. You can only use it if it's is to change a red card offence to a yellow so was that incident not looked at as a possible red card offence? Hence it being changed from red to yellow? This was never being looked at as a red card offence hence not being able to give him a yellow.
Exactly it was being looked at as a red card worthy offence hence the ref being able to award the yellow instead of red. But this wasn't being looked at as a red card worthy offence so the ref couldn't award the second yellow.No. United scored a goal, and it was pulled wayyyy back for a fk and yellow card for Shaw. Neville was on commentry saying he thought it was a red if you remember?
Sorry, what I meant was they couldn't have awarded a fk and yellow if it wasn't for the goal because it wasn't deemed a red. If we won a corner say, we'd have been able to re start with our corner. At least that's how I remember them explaining itExactly it was being looked at as a red card worthy offence hence the ref being able to award the yellow instead of red. But this wasn't being looked at as a red card worthy offence so the ref couldn't award the second yellow.
I think there rule with this is that you can only visit cards that warrant a red card but if you don't deem it worthy of a red you have out the yellow. This was being looked at for a foul leading up to a goal nothing more and nothing less so yellow was never an option. But who gives both were rubbish calls..Sorry, what I meant was they couldn't have awarded a fk and yellow if it wasn't for the goal because it wasn't deemed a red. If we won a corner say, we'd have been able to re start with our corner. At least that's how I remember them explaining it
It was just embarrassing to be honest. The dads didn’t mind, we were getting hammered so it was useful to slow a couple of them down. I’m a decent player, or I was once upon a time, but I’m fairly gangly. I use my arms a lot a bit like Pogba but with far less poise and grace. Just awkward angles.Jesus. Carnage. I’d say that went down well!
No they were allowed to look at it because they were disallowing a goal because of it.Don't know about that but those are the rules apparently. You can only use it if it's is to change a red card offence to a yellow so was that incident not looked at as a possible red card offence? Hence it being changed from red to yellow? This was never being looked at as a red card offence hence not being able to give him a yellow.
Son's doing his best to foul McTominay, the only reason the incident occurred was because Son initiated the action by attempting to foul McTominay. It was a crazy decision because it's completely devoid of logic. If 99% of the world is saying it's a bad call then maybe it's a bad call?I can't believe the backlash to this disallowed goal. It was such a blatant, standard foul. Any time the referee sees a player use his arm to fend off an opponent and slap him bang in the middle of the face he will give a free kick and no one will complain.
You're all acting like this was some absolutely crazy decision that beggars belief like Maguire's chokehold on Azpilicueta going unpunished earlier in the season...
You add Maguire's disallowed goal vs Burnley and West Brom (was it West Brom where ref blew whistle before consulting VAR), it's just hilarious.Where is the consistency?
No goal.
Perfectly fine goal?
They haven't a clue what they're doing. There is a new set of rules for every match.
I believe they deemed it accidental, which is why he didn’t receive a second yellow.So referee deemed that McT slapped Son, and so the goal did not stand, but then it was no big deal. So McT didn't get his second yellow.
Blaming VAR all the time just lets the players and the refs off the hook.VAR is the worst thing that happened to football.
Prior to VAR, some decisions went against you, some went in your favor, at the end of the day it evens itself out.
With VAR it is basically the same thing, nothing is conclusive or certain and like before VAR, everything depends on the daftness level of the ref.
VAR is shit. All it did was giving the refs more unnecessary power and increasing the shitshow level tenfold.
According to the commentators on Optus Sport they said VAR initially reviewed the McT incident for a red card, but decided it was not.Don't know about that but those are the rules apparently. You can only use it if it's is to change a red card offence to a yellow so was that incident not looked at as a possible red card offence? Hence it being changed from red to yellow? This was never being looked at as a red card offence hence not being able to give him a yellow.
I'm not sure you playing against 12 year olds is the benchmark for Premier League red cards.Come on now. I’m 6’ 2”. I’ve been playing football against actual children regularly over the last couple of months (with my 12 year old son’s friends, while they wait for club football to start) and have never once elbowed anyone in the face.
I don’t think there was any malice from Pogba but that was about as obvious a potential red card elbow as you’re ever likely to see. Especially if went for a VAR nit-picking review.
Would you still think a finger touching a cheek is a foul if it hadn’t caused Son to collapse to the floor? Is there not a de minimis amount of contact required for it to be a free kick? Was Pogba on Dier also a foul before our third goal? Even by current standards, this was extremely soft.Having reflected on the incident, while I think it was soft, football has been this way for some time, even before VAR and giving a foul isn't all that surprising. We got a soft penalty against Granada on Thursday too. Personally I think both incidents were probably fouls but they're both so soft that the game would be better if they weren't given at all.
At least when Fernandes got up his face was red from the contact. Son didn't even have a scratch.Having reflected on the incident, while I think it was soft, football has been this way for some time, even before VAR and giving a foul isn't all that surprising. We got a soft penalty against Granada on Thursday too. Personally I think both incidents were probably fouls but they're both so soft that the game would be better if they weren't given at all.
If he didn't go down, it's not a foul and that's a part of the problem as whether it's a hand to the face or a tackle, players are effectively encouraged to go down otherwise they won't win free kicks or penalties.Would you still think a finger touching a cheek is a foul if it hadn’t caused Son to collapse to the floor? Is there not a de minimis amount of contact required for it to be a free kick? Was Pogba on Dier also a foul before our third goal? Even by current standards, this was extremely soft.
Agreed and I suspect the root of the problem is that refs aren't being properly allowed to ref the game.I knew it would be given as a foul as soon as i saw the replay. The most frustrating thing for me is that it's likely Scott only threw the arm to shrug Son off in response to his own attempted foul (pulling at his shirt when he'd already gone past him).
I have a certain amount of sympathy for refs though because players and benches are ALWAYS on the con over the smallest thing which has become more obvious with no crowd noise - literally screaming and contesting every decision down to a throw in that the player knows damn well they got the last touch on.
I don't in that as the contact was obviously minimal. If anything after going and watching the replay he should have booked Son for diving.I knew it would be given as a foul as soon as i saw the replay. The most frustrating thing for me is that it's likely Scott only threw the arm to shrug Son off in response to his own attempted foul (pulling at his shirt when he'd already gone past him).
I have a certain amount of sympathy for refs though because players and benches are ALWAYS on the con over the smallest thing which has become more obvious with no crowd noise - literally screaming and contesting every decision down to a throw in that the player knows damn well they got the last touch on.
The problem is that there was contact. While it was minimal and certainly didn't warrant the physio's to come and and do a fecking concussion assessment, a flailing hand to or near the eye can hurt. Enough to go down? Almost certainly not but I'd say a large proportion of fouls given in football aren't enough to send someone to the ground but they do it to win the foul anyway.I don't in that as the contact was obviously minimal. If anything after going and watching the replay he should have booked Son for diving.
If that was a foul then the Rashford one on the edge of the box was assault and that wasn't a foul either.The problem is that there was contact. While it was minimal and certainly didn't warrant the physio's to come and and do a fecking concussion assessment, a flailing hand to or near the eye can hurt. Enough to go down? Almost certainly not but I'd say a large proportion of fouls given in football aren't enough to send someone to the ground but they do it to win the foul anyway.
He's not going to book someone for diving if there is any sort of contact, minimal or not. Allowing the goal would have sufficed for me and that's where the ref should be able to make his own judgement rather than being obligated to go with the 'unatural position' direction of the VAR officials.I don't in that as the contact was obviously minimal. If anything after going and watching the replay he should have booked Son for diving.
Wasn't Rivaldo punished for pretending to be more hurt than he was in a world cup game against Turkey?He's not going to book someone for diving if there is any sort of contact, minimal or not. Allowing the goal would have sufficed for me and that's where the ref should be able to make his own judgement rather than being obligated to go with the 'unatural position' direction of the VAR officials.
Where were you the entire season? That offside interpretation has been tinkered like crazy, with vertical horizontal slant lines making the decisions and VAR is already prepping up how to zoom in into the player's armpits to see if the vertical lines are getting dropped from the exact centre of armpit.Offsides are an easy one. You are either off, or you aren't.
Like i say, it doesn't matter if it's 1mm offside, it's still offside. I have no problem using VAR for that as long as we decide what the measurement point is. It's not a subjective decision.Where were you the entire season? That offside interpretation has been tinkered like crazy, with vertical horizontal slant lines making the decisions and VAR is already prepping up how to zoom in into the player's armpits to see if the vertical lines are getting dropped from the exact centre of armpit.
But then how do you account for margin of error in terms of framerate?Like i say, it doesn't matter if it's 1mm offside, it's still offside. I have no problem using VAR for that as long as we decide what the measurement point is. It's not a subjective decision.
Think I've posted similar about 4 times in this thread but I completely agree!I think they need to go into it with the acceptance that errors will happen. And with that knowledge then raising the VAR bar like crazy and only bringing it in for blatantly bad decisions. If a VAR ref can't tell on 1 normal replay that the onfield decision is bad/wrong, VAR shouldn't intervene. If it takes more than 1 or 2 views to make a decision, then on fid decision should stand. If an offside looks tight on a replay, on field decision should stand. If the VAR shows a clear on/offside after a replay, then stop play and have a look (lines should basically never come into play). If a penalty is missed but looks a pen after replay, it should get overturned.
Get VAR in for the really bad calls. Leave everything else down to the refs. Will mean they have to ref normally and can't ignore reffing situations as "var will sort it out" only for the VAR ref to deem it "not a clear and obvious error" and both being on different pages. Refs should ref the game and VAR should only ever come in for blatantly bad or wrong decisions. Stuff like Drogbas offside in 2010, Henry's or Maradona's handball, De Jong not getting sent off for a Kung fu kick in the world cup final, Rashford getting tripped in the Manchester Derby last year but VAR needing to step in for the pen, etc. Blatant calls. Never ever any marginal or tight decisions.
Yup. It should never have been brought in to re-referee every situation or the entire game, or try and correct every mistake. That was their problem in the first place. Referees made mistakes before, but people could swallow the tight calls at least. What needed fixing was the blatantly bad/unjust decisions. They brought in goal line technology to eliminate any issues there, but the same can't be done with anything else as no other part of football is black and white like that. Handball/not handball is always up for interpretation, no matter where they make the line to be handball, or what situation they describe. Same with offside. Everyone can tell what is or isn't clearly offside, up to pretty much half a foot without resorting to all the line drawing. If a decision is tighter than that and it's one players sleeve vs another's, just leave it with the on field call. It's a grey area over if it should or shouldn't be offside so leave it to what the ref/linesman felt it was if VAR can't tell after a replay or 2 one way or another.Think I've posted similar about 4 times in this thread but I completely agree!
For me the solution is obvious - just get rid of freeze framing and slow motion on replays. People want VAR to correct appalling decisions or catastrophic errors - not to judge whether someone's shoelace is offside. If an referee error is bad enough to be spotted at normal speed, that's when VAR should intervene.
Where the man in the shed decides to draw his line on where he thinks the arm starts is totally subjective and certainly not accurate within 1mm, so I’d have to disagree that offside is offside at the momentLike i say, it doesn't matter if it's 1mm offside, it's still offside. I have no problem using VAR for that as long as we decide what the measurement point is. It's not a subjective decision.