Refusing to make simple and obvious passes.

[amolbhatia50k]

What's that about now ?
I know I'm not the only one who's noticed our players just flat out refuse to attempt certain passes when their teammates is in good position. Misplacing a pass is ok but to refuse to pass it ? Why ? What do we do during training ?

Our biggest problem over the past 6 years has not been winners or defensive quality but our ability to move the ball forward and retain possession further up the pitch in central areas. The space central space between the half line and the opposition goal has been our nightmare really. Im pretty sure we tend to have the least touches in around the opposition penalty area for this reason. That's why our players keep passing it around teams hoping something will open up. Becuase they aren't able to pass it through congested areas.

We need a proper attacking coach. It's been ages.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

James could have released Rashford towards the end of the game, it's the extra touch these guys are always taking that's the problem.

Yes, far too many touches. They should be working on one and two touch stuff.

It's like we're too collected. Need to see some urgency like from Williams a few times against Partizan.

 

[SweetRightFoot]

Noticed this against Pool as well. With Perreria (multiple times) and Fred deciding to shoot (horribly) when much simpler and better options were available. It's a lack of quality + confidence + coaching



Sums it up.

That's literally the opposite of what this thread is about. We're moaning about players making safe passes sideways and backwards rather than players making attacking plays, like driving forward and shooting. I guess you missed Fred's shot that whistled past the post in the 'pool game and also Pereira's pretty fierce effort that forced a save.

But sure, anything to bash United ey?

Whole thread is a joke anyway, did you expect a fantastic performance from a barely fit Martial backed up by Jesse 'League 2' Lingard and Mata who seems so old it's possible he's got dementia and forgotten he used to be a good footballer. Barring Maguire, AWB and giving Martial some minutes this was a second string team and it showed.

Anyway, back to bashing United I guess! Can't believe Garner on his CL debut miscontrolled a pass once! Sh*te! Can't believe a few players fell over on a shit, wet pitch! Must be the coaching! I don't understand how our worst players in the squad keep putting in subpar performances when picked for safe games that largely don't matter! United are finished!

Have a feckin rest the lot of you.

 

[RedCurry]

In my opinion, our team lacks structure. The man on the ball should already know the runs his teammates are going to make before looking up.

The only play we seem to practice in training is the one where Rashford tries to run-in behind. You can see that every single player knows that run and tries to constantly pick Rashford out.

The other intricate movements are unplanned and I don’t necessarily blame the passers if they don’t expect it and choose the safer option.

When I watch City, everything looks rehearsed. Players know exactly what their jobs are. If they deviate from the plan, they get a firing from Pep. There is no “fluid front three”. Everyone has a position and clear instructions.

 

[AR87]

Making simple and obvious passes is definitely not the problem plaguing us

 

[iKeano]

Pilates?

I wish they did Pilates in training, might mean we don't constantly carry more injuries than Manchester Royal Infirmary A&E on a Saturday night.

The speed of thought of the players (or complete lack thereof), the utter lack of urgency, the sidewards/backwards conservative passing, the amount of touches on the ball, lack of creativity just how brutally poor we are at throw-ins (literally lose possession EVERY TIME), how bad we are at set pieces - zero excitement when we get a free or a.corner because they're pointless).. Been driving me mad for years. They simply don't care and clearly work on absolutely nothing in training other than handshakes and videos.
Still, they're probably all good at Fifa.

 

[kouroux]

That's literally the opposite of what this thread is about. We're moaning about players making safe passes sideways and backwards rather than players making attacking plays, like driving forward and shooting. I guess you missed Fred's shot that whistled past the post in the 'pool game and also Pereira's pretty fierce effort that forced a save.

But sure, anything to bash United ey?

Whole thread is a joke anyway, did you expect a fantastic performance from a barely fit Martial backed up by Jesse 'League 2' Lingard and Mata who seems so old it's possible he's got dementia and forgotten he used to be a good footballer. Barring Maguire, AWB and giving Martial some minutes this was a second string team and it showed.

Anyway, back to bashing United I guess! Can't believe Garner on his CL debut miscontrolled a pass once! Sh*te! Can't believe a few players fell over on a shit, wet pitch! Must be the coaching! I don't understand how our worst players in the squad keep putting in subpar performances when picked for safe games that largely don't matter! United are finished!

Have a feckin rest the lot of you.

Honestly, you're the one who didn't understand the point of the thread...

 

[Tony247]

If you watch academy matches the youth plays very much similar to this style. Something is wrong in coaching from bottom to top. Players are not encouraged to send long pass.

Long passes are riskier, need precision in weight and timing. Short passes are easy but usually teams who employ short passing are those having players who can run with the ball 10-15 yards and then quick short pass to another. But neither players are running with the ball, nor they make riskier long pass makes team appear clueless and boring.

After studying academy matches i strongly believe McKenna is a root of this issue. Before we sack Ole it is worth to first replace MK and see if that makes any difference.

In all academy players I could single out Dylan Levitt who passes long balls consistently and most accurately. Just one player across all age groups, including senior team! The coaching is that bad.

 

[NewGlory]

We look like a team where none of our players have ever played together, no matter who we put on the pitch.

Couldn't agree more. Every game it looks like they have never met each other. WTF

 

[Conor]

At least Ole acknowledged this in the post match, which means he is aware of it(and that it's not his intention). I really just think it's an issue of player level, we really need someone at the head of the midfield with the confidence to play these balls all the time.

 

[Member 90887]

Ole's post-match interview :

....

"I thought today we had loads of opportunities to make sure we're in a comfortable lead but we didn't play that pass forward.

....

 

[Beaucoup]

If you watch academy matches the youth plays very much similar to this style. Something is wrong in coaching from bottom to top. Players are not encouraged to send long pass.

Long passes are riskier, need precision in weight and timing. Short passes are easy but usually teams who employ short passing are those having players who can run with the ball 10-15 yards and then quick short pass to another. But neither players are running with the ball, nor they make riskier long pass makes team appear clueless and boring.

After studying academy matches i strongly believe McKenna is a root of this issue. Before we sack Ole it is worth to first replace MK and see if that makes any difference.

In all academy players I could single out Dylan Levitt who passes long balls consistently and most accurately. Just one player across all age groups, including senior team! The coaching is that bad.

I agree, however the coaching isn't bad at the academy as there isn't any.

 

[kidbob]

If you watch academy matches the youth plays very much similar to this style. Something is wrong in coaching from bottom to top. Players are not encouraged to send long pass.

Long passes are riskier, need precision in weight and timing. Short passes are easy but usually teams who employ short passing are those having players who can run with the ball 10-15 yards and then quick short pass to another. But neither players are running with the ball, nor they make riskier long pass makes team appear clueless and boring.

After studying academy matches i strongly believe McKenna is a root of this issue. Before we sack Ole it is worth to first replace MK and see if that makes any difference.

In all academy players I could single out Dylan Levitt who passes long balls consistently and most accurately. Just one player across all age groups, including senior team! The coaching is that bad.

It's not long passes mate. It's James refusing to play Rashford into space with a simple pass and instead trying to needlessly beat another player. Rashford returned the favour later. Against Liverpool we shot 3 times from stupid positions when we had an overlap that gave us the chance at a better chance creation. None of them needed Scholes passing to implement.

Edit: our youth team with Garner and the rest were actually excellent at playing these type of passes when attacking. Laird and Williams were constantly used like this to create chances and it was used to elevate Ching's best abilities.

 

[noodlehair]

To be fair there wasn't much point passing the ball to Martial last night as he was making no runs and whenever it was passed for him to get on to he was too lazy to even bother running after it.


Mctominay stopping us from breaking from a quick free kick was the worst one. We tried to play quickly but the ref pulled it back because Mctominay was rolling around on the floor. Then as soon as Partisan were back in position Mctominay popped up and took a quick free-kick. What an absolute imbecile.

 

[VeevaVee]

There was a chance at the end when we could've put it through to two runners. Not playing the ball and playing down time was probably the sensible option, but it's been so long since I've seen a through ball on to a run that I needed it.

 

[MisterLupus]

Finally a thread placing the blame where it's warranted. I'm bemused at this as well - and I said it already during our pre-season that I was concerned with how immature our attackers looked. Our play actually puts us seventh in the league in terms of opportunities created (and there's very little separating us from fourth) - so our tactics and buildup is decent enough actually the quality of our squad considered. But it all breaks down in the final third - because our players simply lose their heads. They pass when they should shoot then shoot when they should pass and many times when they could easily ship one in towards open players near the center or even make a run for it themselves they choose to dribble their way towards the corner flag instead only to get stuck way out in no-man's land.

My only explanation is that once they reach a situation where they smell an opportunity they start obsessing over themselves - either how good they'll look if they manage to score that goal on their own or how stupid they'll look if their attempt misfires - how their decisions might affect their stats if they mess it up etc etc etc - and then they allow themselves to be dictated by these concerns rather than acting in the team's best interest. The moment they close in on goal they too often turn into egocentric toddlers - plain and simple - both dumb and gutless ones at that lacking anything even resembling team instincts

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

I look at our squad and I don't see many intelligent footballers to be honest. We seem to have (over the years) accrued quite a brainless bunch of 'cloggers' more than anything else. James isn't a clever footballer, and he was our only addition in the summer in an attacking sense. It shouldn't be surprising - of all of our attacking players (MF and STR) I only consider Pogba and Martial to be cerebral players.

 

[kouroux]

It's not long passes mate. It's James refusing to play Rashford into space with a simple pass and instead trying to needlessly beat another player. Rashford returned the favour later. Against Liverpool we shot 3 times from stupid positions when we had an overlap that gave us the chance at a better chance creation. None of them needed Scholes passing to implement.

Edit: our youth team with Garner and the rest were actually excellent at playing these type of passes when attacking. Laird and Williams were constantly used like this to create chances and it was used to elevate Ching's best abilities.

That's exactly my point with this thread. It's not about tough passes between the lines, with a player under a pressure. It is simple forward runs to a teammate in a more optimal position

 

[Matt007a]

Partly lack of confidence I expect. There is definitely a coaching problem though, as we look clueless.

If you’re well drilled in a system, the midfielder should know roughly where Martial is before he’s even looked, through practice and deliberate planning. Then you only need a half glance to play the pass. I get the impression that when a midfielder looks up he has no idea where Martial or whoever is ahead of him is on the pitch. The time it takes to find him and then figure out how to release him results in the chance passing by. Then the midfielder turns back to start again.

It’s baffling to say the least, when you consider that even players in the lower leagues know how to pass forward and through the lines, despite a lack of technical quality.

 

[kidbob]

That's exactly my point with this thread. It's not about tough passes between the lines, with a player under a pressure. It is simple forward runs to a teammate in a more optimal position

Oh I know mate! Think we briefly discussed this in the match thread last night. It's what kills me the most about our play. We actually get into good positions fairly often (not enough but not terrible) but we screw it up constantly. It's like none of our players trust each other at all.

 

[astracrazy]

Ole's post-match interview :
"I thought today we had loads of opportunities to make sure we're in a comfortable lead but we didn't play that pass forward."

I don't believe we have players who are creative enough to see it. It may sound silly, but I don't think they see play developing to create something from it so all they see is sideways or backwards. Pogba on his good days can see the run and unlocks the defense with the pass, we have no one else that can do that. Even when he is playing you need more than 1 player, at least 2 or 3, otherwise the build up is too obvious.

 

[kidbob]

I don't believe we have players who are creative enough to see it. It may sound silly, but I don't think they see play developing to create something from it so all they see is sideways or backwards. Pogba on his good days can see the run and unlocks the defense with the pass, we have no one else that can do that. Even when he is playing you need more than 1 player, at least 2 or 3, otherwise the build up is too obvious.

Mate Brighton are completely different this year. Do you think they have the players to do it? Is any of our players unable to play a 5 yard pass to an overlap like against Liverpool? This thread isn't about creativity but rather about playing a very obvious pass that a Sunday league player could play. Even Ireland players could play them but we never usually get in positions to do so.

 

[Fully Fledged]

We're a team that is extremely low on confidence.
We are not scoring enough goals, keeping enough clean sheets or winning enough games for a club of Man Utd's stature. This is going to affect they way we play football. Chances snatched at that would normally be simple goals, passes either misplaced or turned down where they would have been the obvious simple ball in a side exuding confidence.

This is not something that has just happened under Ole it's been the same since Sir Alex left.

 

[NinjaZombie]

Most players are not up to par. It's obvious. Scott McTominay is a young kid who has done decently to establish himself but let's not kid ourselves, he's not that good.

Neither is Rashford, Pereira, Fred, Lingard or James. Don't get me wrong, put them in a team that contains Giggs, Scholes, Van Persie or Rooney and they'll do pretty well in supporting roles but these are not the quality of players that will get you into the top for four consistently, let alone challenge for trophies.

On top of it all, they're hardly getting the help they need from the coaching staff. There's no pattern of play evident in our matches this season.

This season is a write off. Hell, maybe for the next 5 seasons.

 

[Eckers99]

They've got zero awareness and have no idea what each other will do in any given situation. I remember watching Pep's great Barca team and being taken aback at their ability to pick passes that even spectators, from a distant vantage point, couldn't see. It's no coincidence that the current City side, while nowhere near as good, have similar traits.

This United side can't even make the passes that are clear and obvious. They're shambolic.

 

[billybee99]

Martial was through multiple times, sir Jesse wanted to go sideways

Feck that's funny. Sir Matt, Sir Bobby, Sir Alex and Sir Jesse. What a heritage we have at United.

 

[Fully Fledged]

Feck that's funny. Sir Matt, Sir Bobby, Sir Alex and Sir Jesse. What a heritage we have at United.

I fecking hope so because that means that he has done something special in his career.

 

[kouroux]

Most players are not up to par. It's obvious. Scott McTominay is a young kid who has done decently to establish himself but let's not kid ourselves, he's not that good.

Neither is Rashford, Pereira, Fred, Lingard or James. Don't get me wrong, put them in a team that contains Giggs, Scholes, Van Persie or Rooney and they'll do pretty well in supporting roles but these are not the quality of players that will get you into the top for four consistently, let alone challenge for trophies.

On top of it all, they're hardly getting the help they need from the coaching staff. There's no pattern of play evident in our matches this season.

This season is a write off. Hell, maybe for the next 5 seasons.

This is too true it is depressing. How many times have we seen in the past couple of years City scoring a goal by a through ball to a fullback/wideman who crosses it low and hard for an easy finish.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

Anyone can master the "no look pass". It takes a special bunch of players to master the "no pass look"...

 

[Nanotron]

When you look at our midfield, its not to hard to accept that this is the standard to expect.
On a brighter note, i don't think it gets much worse than this.

 

[Toni's Left Foot]

I stand to be corrected, but I believe our midfield two, Garner & McTominay, exchanged precisely one pass between themselves all game.

I wouldn't have thought that was even possible.

We really are breaking new ground.

 

[SweetRightFoot]

Honestly, you're the one who didn't understand the point of the thread...

The point of the thread is that you watched our overpaid bench warmers and a couple of kids play a boring midweek cup tie and blamed it on the coaching while completely forgetting how well we played against Liverpool just days before.

You could have blamed it on a myriad of concrete factors like 'we're focusing on the league, let's have an easy game with no suprises', 'we've got 2 fresh teenagers in the first eleven in a European away game, good idea to hold onto the ball' or even 'Jesse Lingard and Mata were our 10's, I wouldn't pass to them either' but then you wouldn't get to have a moan at the coaching staff would you?

 

[kouroux]

The point of the thread is that you watched our overpaid bench warmers and a couple of kids play a boring midweek cup tie and blamed it on the coaching while completely forgetting how well we played against Liverpool just days before.

You could have blamed it on a myriad of concrete factors like 'we're focusing on the league, let's have an easy game with no suprises', 'we've got 2 fresh teenagers in the first eleven in a European away game, good idea to hold onto the ball' or even 'Jesse Lingard and Mata were our 10's, I wouldn't pass to them either' but then you wouldn't get to have a moan at the coaching staff would you?

Again the plot is lost on you, this isn't something that's happened only in the last game. We have been having these issues for a longer time. I just used this game as the latest example.

 

[devilish]

If you watch academy matches the youth plays very much similar to this style. Something is wrong in coaching from bottom to top. Players are not encouraged to send long pass.

Long passes are riskier, need precision in weight and timing. Short passes are easy but usually teams who employ short passing are those having players who can run with the ball 10-15 yards and then quick short pass to another. But neither players are running with the ball, nor they make riskier long pass makes team appear clueless and boring.

After studying academy matches i strongly believe McKenna is a root of this issue. Before we sack Ole it is worth to first replace MK and see if that makes any difference.

In all academy players I could single out Dylan Levitt who passes long balls consistently and most accurately. Just one player across all age groups, including senior team! The coaching is that bad.

First Mou and now Ole, I hope that once the new manager is hired they are the first to be shown the door. I wonder if replacing Faria(a seasoned fitness coach) with these numpthies is the reason why our fitness levels are so low

 

[M16Red]

Again the plot is lost on you, this isn't something that's happened only in the last game. We have been having these issues for a longer time. I just used this game as the latest example.

Has a watch of this, we've been like this for a long time though. Do you not remember the slow zombie passing thread?

Spoiler: Youtube

 

[kouroux]

Has a watch of this, we've been like this for a long time though. Do you not remember the slow zombie passing thread?

Spoiler: Youtube

Indeed

 

[M16Red]

Indeed

The question is though what are they afraid of? Is it losing the ball and the other team scoring or is it just losing the ball for bad statistics?

Our defences much better this season, next up is the middle of park.

A legend once said you build a team from the back. Klopp built his team from the front, German engineering for you.

 

[SweetRightFoot]

Again the plot is lost on you, this isn't something that's happened only in the last game. We have been having these issues for a longer time. I just used this game as the latest example.

I agree but how can you blame the coaching when we've had dog sh*te Moyes, pragmatic possession LvG, anti-possesion anti-football Mourinho and now we've got Ole who's admittedly undefined style is still even more different than those before him. Surely if it was purely down to coaching we would have seen some improvement or change?

Does Pogba make boring safe passes? Rashford? Maguire? No! because they are talented confident players. Stop blaming the coaching when it's clear as day we've got a bucketload of deadwood in the squad who GOOD coaches have periodically got the best out of!

You say I'm missing the point but you can't see the wood for the trees mate.

 

[kouroux]

I agree but how can you blame the coaching when we've had dog sh*te Moyes, pragmatic possession LvG, anti-possesion anti-football Mourinho and now we've got Ole who's admittedly undefined style is still even more different than those before him. Surely if it was purely down to coaching we would have seen some improvement or change?

Does Pogba make boring safe passes? Rashford? Maguire? No! because they are talented confident players. Stop blaming the coaching when it's clear as day we've got a bucketload of deadwood in the squad who GOOD coaches have periodically got the best out of!

You say I'm missing the point but you can't see the wood for the trees mate.

Where did I exactly blame the coaching again ? You don't even what I'm focusing on in this thread. This thread is about the decision making of our players in various instances of various games. Nothing to do with coaching

 

[Devil77]

Has a watch of this, we've been like this for a long time though. Do you not remember the slow zombie passing thread?

Spoiler: Youtube

Thanks for the link, very interesting video. The biggest problem and dissapointment for me is that our midfielders are so afraid of trying the more difficult thing. Like a turn, a burst forward or a penetrating pass. We become so predictable and static when players always never do the unexpected.