I'm curious how you would define the truth and how you would measure having found it ?
Religion Discussion | Read the OP before posting
- Thread starter Raoul
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Thought I'd do a short piece on what is known as the 'Langar', otherwise known as 'free kitchen' in Sikh Gurdwaras.
Essentially, the practice of Langar in Sikhism was started by the first Guru, for the people who were coming from all over Asia to see him and were weary and hungry from their travels. Because of Sikhi's emphasis on equality, it was deliberately designed so that people would sit on the floor collectively, regardless of your status or caste. Rich men found themselves sitting next to poor men. Peoples of higher caste would sit next to people of lower castes. Everyone of every religion, caste, creed was welcome, even if they had no interest in the Guru's philosophies and just wanted a free meal.
This persists today, and every Gurdwara should be providing this free service, at pretty much all times of the day. The idea is that Sikhs (and non-Sikhs) will come to the Gurdwara and are supposed to have Langar first before sitting in the main hall, so that they don't have to sit and listen on an empty stomach. Some will reverse it depending on how much time they have. Anyways it's also a great opportunity to volunteer and help out, and many people choose to help with the cooking or washing up dishes to provide selfless service. Because Muslims only eat halal meat (Sikhs can't), Jewish would eat Kosher meat (again Sikhs can't), neither would eat pork or bacon, someone else might object to both those types of meat etc., the food is strictly vegetarian to keep it simple. The only requirements for being in the langar hall are that you remove your shoes and cover your head, as these are seen as respectful actions.
The Golden Temple serves many tens of thousands of people a day, all for free (donations are of course welcome but never obligatory). It also has 4 major gates (one on each side of the complex), to represent the 4 cardinal directions of a compass, symbolising that everyone from all parts of the world are most welcome. So if anyone is ever hungry and has no money, or just wants to try the food, feel free to go to your local Gurdwara and I'm sure you'll receive a warm welcome. The identifying aspect of a Gurdwara is the 'Nishan Sahib', which is a very tall saffron flag in usually the shape of a right angled triangle. You should be able to see it from a distance.
Essentially, the practice of Langar in Sikhism was started by the first Guru, for the people who were coming from all over Asia to see him and were weary and hungry from their travels. Because of Sikhi's emphasis on equality, it was deliberately designed so that people would sit on the floor collectively, regardless of your status or caste. Rich men found themselves sitting next to poor men. Peoples of higher caste would sit next to people of lower castes. Everyone of every religion, caste, creed was welcome, even if they had no interest in the Guru's philosophies and just wanted a free meal.
This persists today, and every Gurdwara should be providing this free service, at pretty much all times of the day. The idea is that Sikhs (and non-Sikhs) will come to the Gurdwara and are supposed to have Langar first before sitting in the main hall, so that they don't have to sit and listen on an empty stomach. Some will reverse it depending on how much time they have. Anyways it's also a great opportunity to volunteer and help out, and many people choose to help with the cooking or washing up dishes to provide selfless service. Because Muslims only eat halal meat (Sikhs can't), Jewish would eat Kosher meat (again Sikhs can't), neither would eat pork or bacon, someone else might object to both those types of meat etc., the food is strictly vegetarian to keep it simple. The only requirements for being in the langar hall are that you remove your shoes and cover your head, as these are seen as respectful actions.
The Golden Temple serves many tens of thousands of people a day, all for free (donations are of course welcome but never obligatory). It also has 4 major gates (one on each side of the complex), to represent the 4 cardinal directions of a compass, symbolising that everyone from all parts of the world are most welcome. So if anyone is ever hungry and has no money, or just wants to try the food, feel free to go to your local Gurdwara and I'm sure you'll receive a warm welcome. The identifying aspect of a Gurdwara is the 'Nishan Sahib', which is a very tall saffron flag in usually the shape of a right angled triangle. You should be able to see it from a distance.
I know you're not disagreeing with me entirely (if at all), but I still want to say that I'm naturally a skeptical person, and I won't believe in anything easily unless evidence shows up that can support such beliefs to be credible.To be a pedant your shouldn't believe in anything under any circumstance
since prophecies are divinely inspired messages that can't be proven via scientific method, I can't say I believe in any of them either.
You are right that I wasn't disagreeing with you as all I was saying was that belief involves holding something to be true without evidence. Holding something to be true (or likely to be true to varying degrees of certainty) based on the available evidence is understanding rather than a belief. As Douglas Adams once said the only valid use of the word belief for an atheist is to believe (or not) your child when they claim not to have eaten all of the chocolate that was in the fridge until recently.
I too was brought up Catholic but I gradually found that none of it seemed to make sense or to be at all convincing. I also couldn't get past the fact that everyone thought their version of a god was the true and only one. This seemed troublesome to me as it seemed to be mainly an accident of birth/upbringing in the vast majority of cases. I realise that you don't follow a particular church but I'd be interested to know why you believe that Jesus and the Christian God is the correct one (just as I'd be interested to know why believers in other gods do)?
I was just reading up on the Bible and menstruation. Do Christians still think women are unclean because of menstruation? What about other religions?
Many religions have issues but it is quite variable and complex and often more to to with male domination than religion per se - more religion reflecting old discrimination.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_and_menstruation
Just to answer that question - no, Christians don't.
Jesus said this:
"It is from within, from people's hearts, that evil intentions emerge: fornication, theft, murder, adultery, avarice, malice, deceit, indecency, envy, slander, pride, folly. All these evil things come from within (the heart). They make a person unclean" (Mark 7,14-23).
Jesus spoke many times about the hypocrisy of those who outwardly followed religious rituals but were inwardly thinking very differently.
Jesus said this:
"It is from within, from people's hearts, that evil intentions emerge: fornication, theft, murder, adultery, avarice, malice, deceit, indecency, envy, slander, pride, folly. All these evil things come from within (the heart). They make a person unclean" (Mark 7,14-23).
Jesus spoke many times about the hypocrisy of those who outwardly followed religious rituals but were inwardly thinking very differently.
That's a very good question. For me in my teens I asked the question, why Islam? Because I was born into it? So I asked around and obviously pondered myself. The path often led to forks, firstly why waste the time and effort at all? Is there even a God, Supreme Being, Alien Creator? Looking around you, the impossibility of human life and free will, the patterns within chaos, I chose the Belief path.
Then it was a case of OK so I believe in something. Would this Creator/Being create me without telling me why? Would he want to communicate to his creation or not be bothered? Again I chose the Willing to Communicate route. So finally it was a case of looking for looking for the most correct data that could be available at this point of my life. Start with the biggest congregations first and their books/teachings. Compare them and accept the one that provided the most accurate information (as you would when looking for the most accurate information on Wiki or Google, for example).
I guess I was able to make those decisions a bit more clearly living in a society that challenged all religions, including the one I finally 'chose'. And I guess that is ultimately what God wants: your active participation - not just blind belief based on circumstances. Or in layman's terms, its just a test innit?
Menstruation in Islam is obviously unclean but it doesn't mean the woman is unclean (or unworthy of anything). She is 'excused' from praying during these days and can make up for them later. Its the same as if a man ejaculates, he is not 'excused' from praying he is forbidden until he bathes himself properly. Both are just natural events where different behaviours are required. They are not stigmas to be attached because people want to use them offensively. Anyone who does is acting God, and the punishment for associating any partners with God is the most extreme.
Its just a shame that many Muslims living in backwater societies all consider themselves able to interpret God's rules as though they are deities themselves. I've mentioned elsewhere in the past that the worst pits of hell will be heavily populated with Hypocritic Muslims, way below paedos, murderers, etc.
Why can't you pray unless you've had a wash? I'm sure back then it wasn't uncommon to go without bathing for some time.
Maybe it goes back to the mind or soul or spirit versus body dichotomy. For many religions the body is almost evil in itself, part of the dark forces in the world. Purity and impurity are key words in this view of life.
It seems to me to infiltrate other areas as well, not that the body is impure but that there are those who are purer in some way than others. This fight between good and evil can take different forms and contain many contradictions.
The body isn't necessarily evil, but capable of it and thus most certainly emits 'evil' into the the physical world as well as the overall interconnected consciousness. The action of cleaning is a practice of purifying, casting out and draining sin or the predisposition to commit sin.
The good vs evil thing is a figurative way of describing emmision of productive energy vs unproductive energy. Productive in what sense you may wonder? Altruism, a collective well being, happiness and love. Things of that sort
Unproductive for that, 'evil' may be. But productive it is for spreading the energies that it itself feeds of and breeds. Goes back to the old saying of 'success breeds success'. Well good breeds good and bad breeds bad.
T
The good vs evil thing is a figurative way of describing emmision of productive energy vs unproductive energy. Productive in what sense you may wonder? Altruism, a collective well being, happiness and love. Things of that sort
Unproductive for that, 'evil' may be. But productive it is for spreading the energies that it itself feeds of and breeds. Goes back to the old saying of 'success breeds success'. Well good breeds good and bad breeds bad.
T
I've seen in Iran people parading around a city flagellating themselves. In Spain I've seen people parading around in barefoot and carrying three crosses, seen a woman leave the room in panic as there were no other women in it with her. Masturbation has been punished by flogging and so on. The punishment of the body to purify the soul is quite typical.
Typical (sadly), but/and wrong.
To paint a whole philosophy with the colours of its' idiots, is also wrong, no?
I use " its' " very loosely. They may be labeled as such, doesnt make it any more true or apt form of description.
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Look again at my post and you'll see I do no such thing. I merely offer a partial explanation of the reasons cleansing and purity have been or are common. It's something that goes back thousands of years, with all the complexity that implies.
Not considered unclean in Sikhism. That Wiki article explains it very well actually.
God is energy , nature and all encompassing.
God is too big for words but at least I tried.
AcceptedOh shizzle
Apologies
, and given if anyone has taken offence at the posts.I'm not sure what your post has to do with my post.
Same as me bro. You need to question your personal reality and the logic behind your existence, I followed the same path as you and came to the same conclusionThat's a very good question. For me in my teens I asked the question, why Islam? Because I was born into it? So I asked around and obviously pondered myself. The path often led to forks, firstly why waste the time and effort at all? Is there even a God, Supreme Being, Alien Creator? Looking around you, the impossibility of human life and free will, the patterns within chaos, I chose the Belief path.
Then it was a case of OK so I believe in something. Would this Creator/Being create me without telling me why? Would he want to communicate to his creation or not be bothered? Again I chose the Willing to Communicate route. So finally it was a case of looking for looking for the most correct data that could be available at this point of my life. Start with the biggest congregations first and their books/teachings. Compare them and accept the one that provided the most accurate information (as you would when looking for the most accurate information on Wiki or Google, for example).
I guess I was able to make those decisions a bit more clearly living in a society that challenged all religions, including the one I finally 'chose'. And I guess that is ultimately what God wants: your active participation - not just blind belief based on circumstances. Or in layman's terms, its just a test innit?
It's a discussion on religion ?
God under many names is praised in religion ?
My definition of God is........
See my previous post.
I misread the bit in brackets.
I apologise.
Infact.. ignore me.. Ive been doing pranayam forva few hours tiday and not grounded at all.
Anyway. My definition of God is a few posts above .
One of my favorite quotes of all time is from a letter Thomas Jefferson wrote to his nephew...
No worries. I was a bit confusedI misread the bit in brackets.
I apologise.
Infact.. ignore me.. Ive been doing pranayam forva few hours tiday and not grounded at all.
Anyway. My definition of God is a few posts above .
I was totally confused.No worries. I was a bit confused
Anyway.
Looking for God... look in the mirror.
God is love and love is God and if that's all there is there can be no opposite.
- Bill Hicks.
Which verses from your respective holy books are your favourites ?
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I'm not Muslim, but I've always liked the story of Musa (Moses) and Khidr in the Qur'an, Sura 18 (al-Kahf - "The Cave" - this translation is by Arberry):
(Edit): should probably explain, I don't like this for its moral lesson which I think is very problematic, I just think it's a cool story and I like the mysterious character of Khidr, he comes up a lot in Sufi thought.
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Sufism really hits the spot for me.
Ive been attending the odd Zikr every now and then for seven years.
I love this quote from the Bhagavad Gita.
On this path effort never goes to waste and there is no failure. Even a little effort towards spiritual awareness will protect you from the greatest fear.
Krsna - Higher Self / Godhead
Arjuna - Lower Self
The battlefield - Attachments / Fear
On this path effort never goes to waste and there is no failure. Even a little effort towards spiritual awareness will protect you from the greatest fear.
Krsna - Higher Self / Godhead
Arjuna - Lower Self
The battlefield - Attachments / Fear
@2cents, what is your religious/cultural upbringing, if you don't mind me asking?
Non-religious Catholic - did all the Catholic formalities for tradition's sake, but my parents are both atheists.
A kind of parable giving a simple exposition of a moral outlook
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I have a juicy prophecy from the OT I think may be of interest to you (and others)
Go on then!
lol, "keep em waiting". Give me a minute need to go back to the sources
Did anyone else think OT meant Old Trafford for a while? I was wondering why the hell do you need to go back there for your sources? 