Quite the contrary, I think new atheists are trying to redefine the word 'atheism' to relieve themselves from the burden of providing evidence for the claim 'there is no God'. The definition of the word is quite clear in any dictionary of philosophy.
Religion, what's the point?
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So in essence, faith is a device to escape reality ? Interesting.
come to know him = have a relationship with him.When you say "come to know him", do you mean worship him? Supposedly he has revealed himself to many non-believers over the years, so what's the difference between revealing himself to individual people here and there and to everyone at the same time? We are all his children and he wants us all to come to heaven, yet he sets up life on earth as some sort of quest to find him rather than making it as good as possible for everyone.. Clearly he is fine with the way things are now where 80% of us goes to hell, and the kicker is that he has known that it would turn out that way since the beginning of time.
Saying that he's malicious is an understatement.
Interesting and true from a certain point of view. From the example I used, faith in a girlfriend leads to an escape of a single reality for a guy, and vice versa.
Exactly. Without god. As I've been saying. Thanks.
@EyeInTheSky I saw that.
I suppose you read the definition and didn't like what you saw? If you're unable to admit your own errors, then why even take part in a discussion? You may as well talk to yourself.
Oxford English Dictionary
Atheism
[mass noun] Disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.
Pipe down.
What are you if, like @Mockney , you believe god's a cnut?
The same God as Allah? The God of Abraham Allah? Yes, what do you think would happen if you used that other name Grinner?
Eh?
Is the question a bit difficult Grins?
When having philosophical discussions, it helps to use definitions used by philosophers.
'It has come to be widely accepted that to be an atheist is to affirm the non-existence of God. Anthony Flew (1984) called this positive atheism, whereas to lack a belief that God or gods exist is to be a negative atheist. Parallels for this use of the term would be terms such as “amoral,” “atypical,” or “asymmetrical.” So negative atheism would includes someone who has never reflected on the question of whether or not God exists and has no opinion about the matter and someone who had thought about the matter a great deal and has concluded either that she has insufficient evidence to decide the question, or that the question cannot be resolved in principle. Agnosticism is traditionally characterized as neither believing that God exists nor believing that God does not exist.'
You really need to study up on atheism since we're really beating on a dead horse here. Atheists do not claim that god doesn't exist, and if they do it is not atheism.
Atheism is a lack of belief in a deity, that's it.
Shifting the burden of proof is also a real classic.
If anyone is to provide evidence that god doesn't exist then someone needs prove that he exists first since you can't disprove something that doesn't exist.
Are you trying to claim that catholics or whatever aren't capable of some vile shit?
That's not a strong position for you to argue. Besides, didn't you flounce out of this thread when the questions got too hard?
So I can't have that unless I find him myself?
congrats?
What on Earth has that to do with my question Grinner. What do you mean flounce? I certainly don't look to insult anyone or their beliefs or non-belief before pissing off or trying to evade the question.
Will you use the name of Allah who is the same as the christian God when asking your question?
My sentiments exactly.
It's really not that simple. http://www.iep.utm.edu/atheism/
Of course you can disprove something that doesn't exist, don't be silly. And even if it were the case that you can't disprove the non-existence of something, then that is surely an argument against atheism!
Read this, then we can discuss. http://www.iep.utm.edu/atheism/
He's knocking on the door every day. All you need to do is open it.
Alright Aristotle. My only argument tonight was on the definition of the word. I gave you a dictionary definition of the word.
But, while we're at it, even using your definition, that Atheism is a a firm belief that there is no god. You are in that case atheist to thousands of gods too. I'm the exact same. I just include your God too. How can you firmly believe in your God unless you can disprove the existence of Thor, Odin, Zeus and the Flying Spaghetti Monster?
Also, to equate a firm belief that there is no God to a firm belief in god is ridiculous. They are not one and the same. To look at all the evidence, or lack thereof, and come to the conclusion that there is no God is not the same as coming to the conclusion that there is a god despite any evidence.
The first line of that article-
Literally what Raoul, zlaaaatan and myself have been saying.
Not when that something is supposedly beyond time and space. Can you disprove Zeus? I sure can't, and I've yet to see anyone who can.
Edit: I see that Mr.Hamilton has already gone down this road.
Well tell him to put some muscle into it then, I don't hear it.
1) Read the whole article.
2) In response to your previous message about me being an atheist to thousands of God... It's irrelevant whether or not I believe or disbelieve in Zeus etc. because
- an atheist is someone who believes that there is no God.
- I believe that there is a God.
- therefore I am not an atheist.
It's simple and beautiful.
I might just change it into that. Got a nice goalscoring ring to it
Isn't Zeus supposed to live on Mount Olympus? We could go check to see if he's there?Not when that something is supposedly beyond time and space. Can you disprove Zeus? I sure can't, and I've yet to see anyone who can.
Edit: I see that Mr.Hamilton has already gone down this road.
Well tell him to put some muscle into it then, I don't hear it.
I'll ask God to knock louder!
Zeus is a god. You don't believe in him. Yahweh is your god. I don't believe in him.
There is no difference.
There are thousands of gods that both you and I don't believe in. I've just added one more to the list.
Of course, he happens to be the real one though.
I was in Mass on Sunday because my auntie was a year dead and she was to be mentioned. For once I actually listened to what the priest was saying. It really is a load of shite. I don't believe a word.
I wasn't sure how many a's you had and was too lazy to scroll up. I thought 4 was a good number.I might just change it into that. Got a nice goalscoring ring to it
No, you said that I was 'atheist to thousands of Gods too'.
Since I believe in God I'm in no sense an atheist.
To draw a rough analogy it's a bit like an unmarried person saying to a married person that the married person is basically the same as the unmarried person because they're single with respect to billions of people in the world that they chose not to marry. That's irrelevant. The married person is married so is in no sense single.
Atheism is a belief that God does not exist in any form whatsoever. What you are describing as atheism is agnosticism.
God cannot be proven or disproved using physical observable evidence. Atheists seek scientific evidence that they believe appears to rule out any historical involvement of a deity in our universe. The more evidence they are persuaded by, the more confident they feel. What is unknown about the atheists individually is the motive for their lack of interest. God is irrelevant? Religion is counterproductive? Religion messed me up? Accountability to a God is an uncomfortable thought?
Who knows what the motive is. Usually i find that Atheists will use any reason for an specific argument, because the simple fact is, they don't like the idea that God could exist, and that's really what they're seeking to brush off.
Well the thing is that him not being there is unfortunately not proof of that he doesn't exist. As for your god, I can't even think of how you can disprove a god that supposedly exists beyond space and time.Isn't Zeus supposed to live on Mount Olympus? We could go check to see if he's there?
I'll ask God to knock louder!
I wasn't sure how many a's you had and was too lazy to scroll up. I thought 4 was a good number.
I think you raise an interesting issue here. To what extent are people's beliefs determined by their preference for the existence or non-existence of a deity? Would the atheists here admit a preference for there not being a God?
It's also interesting to me to find out what evidence atheists would consider to be good evidence for the existence of God. The ones I've discussed this with have almost all confided that no amount of evidence would ever persuade them of God's existence.
I'd love for there to be a God. Would be great knowing you're going to an eternal paradise after you die if you live a decent life and don't do anything all that bad. Was raised moderately religious as well, and was generally quite into it.
I find it quite difficult to buy into the whole thing, though. I'd imagine most of us here would find concrete evidence of the existence of a deity, as in actual proof that he/she/it exists, to be convincing. As it stands there's not really any, and religion tends to be more political than anything else.
I'd suggest that proving or disproving His existence is impossible by design, and is itself evidence of His reality. If it was possible to prove His existence, people would not be able to freely choose to know God - His love is reflected in the completely free choice He gives us. I believe we're all given the evidence we need. What you choose to do with it is of course entirely your choice.Well the thing is that him not being there is unfortunately not proof of that he doesn't exist. As for your god, I can't even think of how you can disprove a god that supposedly exists beyond space and time.
As far as I understand, being decent and not doing anything all that bad isn't the requirement for getting to 'eternal paradise'!
Should be if God is all forgiving, surely?