YupFixed.
YupFixed.
If you make the person and know which way they will choose when you make them, isn't that a pointless test?I think what He's achieved is magnificent, in that He's revealed of Himself just the right amount so that we can freely choose to come to know Him. If it was a slam dunk case, would people come to know him out of choice or out of necessity?
It isn't a knowledge claim. Its the absence of a knowledge claim.No, an atheist is someone who asserts the proposition that there is no God. It's a knowledge claim.
Headway to what though? Where is my answer leading me?To answer your question... let's say He tells you He provided plenty of evidence of His existence. What evidence? I suspect you'd reply. Well, He might say, I created the universe, fine-tuned it, provided you with the idea of God, gave you an understanding of morality, an appreciation of aesthetic values, free-will, and sent Jesus.
And you'd reply 'ah yes, but were there any heat lamps in Noah's ark'?
I just don't think it would make much headway. I may be wrong, though.
That's completely incorrect. Atheism is not about beliefs, what you are putting forward is the most basic misconception of what Atheism is.theism = I believe there is a God
atheism = I believe there is no God
That's not an accurate description of the majority of self-identified atheists I have come across. They are confident in the fact there is no god/gods.It isn't a knowledge claim. Its the absence of a knowledge claim.
When you say "come to know him", do you mean worship him? Supposedly he has revealed himself to many non-believers over the years, so what's the difference between revealing himself to individual people here and there and to everyone at the same time? We are all his children and he wants us all to come to heaven, yet he sets up life on earth as some sort of quest to find him rather than making it as good as possible for everyone.. Clearly he is fine with the way things are now where 80% of us goes to hell, and the kicker is that he has known that it would turn out that way since the beginning of time.I think what He's achieved is magnificent, in that He's revealed of Himself just the right amount so that we can freely choose to come to know Him. If it was a slam dunk case, would people come to know him out of choice or out of necessity?
He's right about it, at least that's what the fundamental definition of being atheist.It isn't.
Then you're talking to morons.That's not an accurate description of the majority of self-identified atheists I have come across. They are confident in the fact there is no god/gods.
Perhaps they are using the wrong term but I'd suggest it's more that their definition is currently different from the one you are going by.
No you are wrong. Atheism is the belief that there is no God. The only other option to Atheism and Theism, is agnosticism.Headway to what though? Where is my answer leading me?
That's completely incorrect. Atheism is not about beliefs, what you are putting forward is the most basic misconception of what Atheism is.
I thank you though, for bothering at all to answer our questions. It's appreciated my friend
If I did a survey, and asked one hundred people who identified as atheist, if there was a god/gods, do you think I'd get more answers saying 'no' or answers wishing not to give a binary answer?Then you're talking to morons.
He's right about it, at least that's what the fundamental definition of being atheist.
Also claiming than 1+1=2 is more of an axiom, it isn't having a belief per se and the equivalent in religion would be the dogmas.
I suppose one would have to put themselves in a variety of categories to examine further. I'd imagine most atheists are in the number 6 category. I don't believe in God but am only 99.999% confident in my view and still leave the door open that if presented with tangible evidence, that there may infact be a God/creator/designer etc.That's not an accurate description of the majority of self-identified atheists I have come across. They are confident in the fact there is no god/gods.
Perhaps they are using the wrong term but I'd suggest it's more that their definition is currently different from the one you are going by.
It's a stupid question - that's the first problem. No one knows.If I did a survey, and asked one hundred people who identified as atheist, if there was a god/gods, do you think I'd get more answers saying 'no' or answers wishing not to give a binary answer?
Cause, I'm pretty sure I'd get more in the 'no' camp.
Off topic but asexuality is the absence of sexuality. Not the absence of preference. Your description sounds more like pansexuality.Asexual - lack of or without sexual preference.
I think that's true.I suppose one would have to put themselves in a variety of categories to examine further. I'd imagine most atheists are in the number 6 category. I don't believe in God but am only 99.999% confident in my view and still leave the door open that if presented with tangible evidence, that there may infact be a God/creator/designer etc.
Richard Dawkins’ Belief Scale Scoring Rubric
- Strong Theist: I do not question the existence of God, I KNOW he exists.
- De-facto Theist: I cannot know for certain but I strongly believe in God and I live my life on the assumption that he is there.
- Weak Theist: I am very uncertain, but I am inclined to believe in God.
- Pure Agnostic: God’s existence and non-existence are exactly equiprobable.
- Weak Atheist: I do not know whether God exists but I’m inclined to be skeptical.
- De-facto Atheist: I cannot know for certain but I think God is very improbable and I live my life under the assumption that he is not there.
- Strong Atheist: I am 100% sure that there is no God.
The absence of belief in a God, is......wait for it........unbelief LOLIf I did a survey, and asked one hundred people who identified as atheist, if there was a god/gods, do you think I'd get more answers saying 'no' or answers wishing not to give a binary answer?
Cause, I'm pretty sure I'd get more in the 'no' camp.
No. You're wrong. If I ask you the question "Do you believe in god?" your answer can only be yes or no.No you are wrong. Atheism is the belief that there is no God. The only other option to Atheism and Theism, is agnosticism.
That's about right.I suppose one would have to put themselves in a variety of categories to examine further. I'd imagine most atheists are in the number 6 category. I don't believe in God but am only 99.999% confident in my view and still leave the door open that if presented with tangible evidence, that there may infact be a God/creator/designer etc.
Richard Dawkins’ Belief Scale Scoring Rubric
- Strong Theist: I do not question the existence of God, I KNOW he exists.
- De-facto Theist: I cannot know for certain but I strongly believe in God and I live my life on the assumption that he is there.
- Weak Theist: I am very uncertain, but I am inclined to believe in God.
- Pure Agnostic: God’s existence and non-existence are exactly equiprobable.
- Weak Atheist: I do not know whether God exists but I’m inclined to be skeptical.
- De-facto Atheist: I cannot know for certain but I think God is very improbable and I live my life under the assumption that he is not there.
- Strong Atheist: I am 100% sure that there is no God.
That wasn't the original question.No. You're wrong. If I ask you the question "Do you believe in god?" your answer can only be yes or no.
Yes = Theist
No = Atheist.
You can't not know if you believe in something.
Agnosticism is a separate entity entirely.
Indeed. This is getting confused.That wasn't the original question.
Maybe not. But it's in reply to the definition of Atheist. Atheism is the lack of a belief in a deity, simple as that. The prefix "a", means lack of/ without/ absence ofThat wasn't the original question.
I think it's an important distinction, personally. As someone who doesn't identify as an atheist, nor has faith in any god/gods, it leaves a gap where I can identify without being associated with religious nuts or tedious ignorant atheists (there are many cool religious people and cool atheists, but we all know the moderates are not the ones who get prominence and thus not people's expectation of the terms).For me, the whole Atheists "believe" there is no god thing is little more than a red herring for religious folk who are annoyed by the presence of atheists constantly questioning them, to discredit the atheist view and generally obfuscate from the fact that the religious can't prove that their own beliefs are tangible.
I don't think this is quite correct Raoul, as Christians we don't seek proof - we are saved by faith alone. Understanding that then obviously there would be no need to attempt to "Prove" anything would there?For me, the whole Atheists "believe" there is no god thing is little more than a red herring for religious folk who are annoyed by the presence of atheists constantly questioning them, to discredit the atheist view and generally obfuscate from the fact that the religious can't prove that their own beliefs are tangible.
Quite. It is sort of the point of 'faith' that it isn't proven.I don't think this is quite correct Raoul, as Christians we don't seek proof - we are saved by faith alone. Understanding that then obviously there would be no need to attempt to "Prove" anything would there?
And so we are always going to be unable to attempt to prove anything if asked to.Quite. It is sort of the point of 'faith' that it isn't proven.
Good point. I think the fundamental problem of faith to the atheist is that it all seems made up. If you can have faith in Christ, then you can also have faith in Zeus, Thor, Fire, etc, at which point the very concept of faith seems like little more than a philosophical device to commit yourself to something in your own mind.I don't think this is quite correct Raoul, as Christians we don't seek proof - we are saved by faith alone. Understanding that then obviously there would be no need to attempt to "Prove" anything would there?
I think that is how the Atheist may see it but no, we do not feel it is a device or in our own mindsGood point. I think the fundamental problem of faith to the atheist is that it all seems made up. If you can have faith in Christ, then you can also have faith in Zeus, Thor, Fire, etc, at which point the very concept of faith is little more than a philosophical device to commit yourself to something in your own mind.
Interesting. If its not tangibly real and it's also not in your mind, then where is it ?I think that is how the Atheist may see it but no, we do not feel it is a device or in our own minds
EverywhereInteresting. If its not tangibly real and it's also not in your mind, then where is it ?
Interestingly, in Quantum Mechanics there is no reality independent of choice of measurement, which in philosophical terms may have some similarities to the way our brains interpret the concept of faith. What we perceive as reality depends on our earlier decision on how to measure reality.Everywhere
A bit like Quantum Physics maybe..
That's interesting isn't it?Interestingly, in Quantum Mechanics there is no reality independent of choice of measurement, which in philosophical terms may have some similarities to the way our brains interpret the concept of faith. What we perceive as reality depends on our earlier decision on how to measure reality.
It's a nice picture but I dispute the idea that it's definitions of terminology accurately describe current usage.Always comes in handy.
Yeah, so atheism isn't a knowledge stance. Classic misdirection from the brainwashed.
How would you categorize a no. 6 with the believe that he lives like he wants in the believe that when he is really his god he would be living with the same values he has?I suppose one would have to put themselves in a variety of categories to examine further. I'd imagine most atheists are in the number 6 category. I don't believe in God but am only 99.999% confident in my view and still leave the door open that if presented with tangible evidence, that there may infact be a God/creator/designer etc.
Richard Dawkins’ Belief Scale Scoring Rubric
- Strong Theist: I do not question the existence of God, I KNOW he exists.
- De-facto Theist: I cannot know for certain but I strongly believe in God and I live my life on the assumption that he is there.
- Weak Theist: I am very uncertain, but I am inclined to believe in God.
- Pure Agnostic: God’s existence and non-existence are exactly equiprobable.
- Weak Atheist: I do not know whether God exists but I’m inclined to be skeptical.
- De-facto Atheist: I cannot know for certain but I think God is very improbable and I live my life under the assumption that he is not there.
- Strong Atheist: I am 100% sure that there is no God.
If people misuse a word, it's their fault, not the word's.It's a nice picture but I dispute the idea that it's definitions of terminology accurately describe current usage.
That statement agrees with what I said.No. You're wrong. If I ask you the question "Do you believe in god?" your answer can only be yes or no.
Yes = Theist
No = Atheist.
This is not true. Ignorance, deception, or defiance can all influence faith and unbelief.You can't not know if you believe in something.
True.Agnosticism is a separate entity entirely.
I understand where you're coming from - you're using the same definition that Christopher Hitchens used to use. That's not how the word is defined in philosophical circles, however. As the Stanford encyclopedia of philosophy puts it - ‘Atheism’ means the negation of theism, the denial of the existence of God.The "a" in Atheism means without or lack of.
Asexual - lack of or without sexual preference.
Atheism - lack of or without belief in god
If the religious could tangibly prove their beliefs, there would no longer be faith. Think of it like a relationship between a boyfriend girlfriend. Both will believe they are true to each other, but if one wants tangible proof, trust (faith) goes out the window.For me, the whole Atheists "believe" there is no god thing is little more than a red herring for religious folk who are annoyed by the presence of atheists constantly questioning them, to discredit the atheist view and generally obfuscate from the fact that the religious can't prove that their own beliefs are tangible.
Words change meaning. It's a thing that happens. We can wish it didn't, for clarity, but it does.If people misuse a word, it's their fault, not the word's.
Although you are right that the vast majority of atheists don't use the precise label.