Richard Arnold leaving United

Fr. Todd Unctious

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Lets imagine that for a second ...

The Glaziers decide to not go ahead with any deal whatsoever and say the club will be theirs for years to come and they will be bringing back Woodward as they feel he did a great job for them over the years.

Absolute pandemonium would follow.

Would hazard a guess it could end up making the protest that happend against Liverpool a few years ago look like a teddy bears picnic. Not that I condone any potential illegality taking place
 
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Laurencio

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I know I was being sarcastic. This who nonsense about Ratcliffe buying 25% shares and assuming control of the club is getting more and more preposterous.
In principle I completely agree with you, 25% should not allow anyone this level of control, but the stuff being reported seems to suggest that is what is happening. So either the reporting is wrong, the glazers are completely blinkered or Ratcliffe isn't settling on 25%. Given Arnold's position, the authority to replace him surely has to be seen as a big deal, should it prove accurate?
 

Tom Van Persie

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If Ratcliffe takes over the football side I think from next season we will have a raft of changes, including the manager. Certainly Arnold and Murtough, maybe Fletcher as well.
INEOS people are reportedly fans of ten Hag. I think he will get a chance under the structure unless he does absolutely awful this season.
 

Alemar

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It’s good that Arnold is going (if true). Hopefully all other members of so called “top management” will follow suit. Every single one
 

antohan

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That's the key point . Ed and Arnold were quite good on financial side of things
My point is Arnold took good care of that all by himself, in the right role. Woody was useless and surplus to requirements.

Arnold probably having a classic case of getting promoted into incompetence but his contribution to the club was immense prior to that.

I'm just not sold on "everyone is useless, everyone is the problem and everyone has to go" as a constructive course of action.

That’s a bit of a myth though. They were in the middle of the pack when it came to the commercial side - our revenue didn’t increase out of line with any of our peers when you consider we had a massive head start due to SAF. They just maintained (and lost a bit in truth) that lead. Which is acceptable, but nothing to write home about.
Arnold arrived at the club about 5 years before Woody so was part of that Gill/SAF headstart you allude to. Arguably our most successful SAF cycle with several league titles and three CL finals in four years.

Unfortunately that paved the way for Ed to feel he was in Disneyland and being able to do things others couldn't dream of. Useless git.
 

sglowrider

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Manchester United are commercial superstars. That's about the only thing we are good at the moment.

Arnold is responsible for that amongst the other activities -- everything other than the footballing side. Like David Gill.

If not for our commercial activities we would be six feet under, shackled financially.

Arnold has to be credited for that. Him leaving may risk our commercial position and limit the ability to buffer though the footballing clusterfeck.

We will lose institutional knowledge when he leaves like when Gill left.
 

amolbhatia50k

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Wait the SJR purchase of minority stake isn’t completed is it? Surprised to see possible changes being reported alrerdy.
 

MadDogg

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The CEO comes under “100% sporting control” right?
I would say CEO is above just 'sporting control'. It's getting more the business side of things, and is the one position I wouldn't have thought the Glazer's would give Ratcliffe power to change. If it's true I would say that either there truly are plans for him to fully take over in the not-too-distant future, or during the negotiations he convinced them that the new guy would be better than Arnold. Either way it would definitely be an indication that we will see some significant changes if it's starting at the very top.

Of course, the key phrase there is 'if true'.
 

padzilla

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Arnold should have been on his way over the weasel like handling of the Greenwood saga.
 

Traub

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My point is Arnold took good care of that all by himself, in the right role. Woody was useless and surplus to requirements.

Arnold probably having a classic case of getting promoted into incompetence but his contribution to the club was immense prior to that.

I'm just not sold on "everyone is useless, everyone is the problem and everyone has to go" as a constructive course of action.


Arnold arrived at the club about 5 years before Woody so was part of that Gill/SAF headstart you allude to. Arguably our most successful SAF cycle with several league titles and three CL finals in four years.

Unfortunately that paved the way for Ed to feel he was in Disneyland and being able to do things others couldn't dream of. Useless git.
I didn't know that, thanks for the info. So maybe he isn't all that bad... He has been dealt a poor hand to be fair to him. Unfortunately this is how corporates work.
 

devilish

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Blanc is a weird one. On one hand he took Juventus at a very delicate time in their history and his contribution was instrumental in them becoming one of the very few Italian clubs owning a stadium. On the other hand he made many mistakes on the transfer market and in terms of hiring managers. He's a bit of an Atkinson ie he came before the real deal
 

JPRouve

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Blanc is a weird one. On one hand he took Juventus at a very delicate time in their history and his contribution was instrumental in them becoming one of the very few Italian clubs owning a stadium. On the other hand he made many mistakes on the transfer market and in terms of hiring managers. He's a bit of an Atkinson ie he came before the real deal
It's not that weird. Both of the things you are mentioning were the responsibility of the DOF, Alessio Secco, who was a leftover from Moggi's era, Juventus eventually replaced him with Marotta and in theory the man in charge of that change was Blanc who was still the GM and CEO but not board chairman anymore.
 

devilish

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It's not that weird. Both of the things you are mentioning were the responsibility of the DOF, Alessio Secco, who was a leftover from Moggi's era, Juventus eventually replaced him with Marotta and in theory the man in charge of that change was Blanc who was still the GM and CEO but not board chairman anymore.
it is weird because he divides both fans and journalists for the exact reasons I mentioned. He'll certainly an upgrade on Arnold and Woodward but whether he's a top CEO remains to be seen. Blanc and Marotta did cross paths but merely for around a year. By that time Blanc was already in decline having left the role of president in 2010 and Juventus the year later. (Marotta joined in May 2010)
 

JPRouve

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it is weird because he divides both fans and journalists for the exact reasons I mentioned. He'll certainly an upgrade on Arnold and Woodward but whether he's a top CEO remains to be seen.
It's not weird, it's just people failing to even understand the most basic things. He wasn't purchasing or picking managers because it's not how Juventus worked and the person doing it was at the club before Blanc joined Juventus, it was Moggi's former assistant who was eventually replaced by Blanc.

Blanc is on the organization side of things, he doesn't do transfers nor does he meddle with the DOF's, at least that's how he has been described at both Juventus and PSG. He helps build and maintain a structure and let the specialists do their job.

Edit: To make my point clearer Alessio Secco was appointed DOF in May 2006. Jean-Claude Blanc was voted CEO and GM late June 2006 by the board.
 
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devilish

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It's not weird, it's just people failing to even understand the most basic things. He wasn't purchasing or picking managers because it's not how Juventus worked and the person doing it was at the club before Blanc joined Juventus, it was Moggi's former assistant who was eventually replaced by Blanc.

Blanc is on the organization side of things, he doesn't do transfers nor does he meddle with the DOF's, at least that's how he has been described at both Juventus and PSG. He helps build and maintain a structure and let the specialists do their job.
At one point Blanc had full power on everything and that is confirmed by the Juventus website itself

https://www.juventus.com/it/club/la-storia/la-rinascita

A ottobre lascia la presidenza Giovanni Cobolli Gigli: i pieni poteri vanno a Jean-Claude Blanc.
.

Tutto sport which is basically the Juventus mouth piece state put forward the same argument I did. It highlights Blanc's ability in building the stadium but also the many mistakes the club did during his tenure both in transfers and managers

https://www.tuttosport.com/news/cal...-96651044/blanc_tra_i_flop_e_il_colpo_stadium
 

Garethw

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When are people going to wake up to the fact that Joel Glazer is the CEO in everything but name?

It’s like in the WWF in the ‘80’s with Jack Tunney as the president making all of the big decisions. When in reality it was Vince in the background with 100% control of everything.

Nothing will change until the Glazers leave. Every single decision has to be signed off by Joel, it’s one of the reasons that our transfers are so protracted. The CEO and DOF are virtually powerless imo.

The idea that Ratcliffe buys up 25% and suddenly becomes the lead decision maker is fanciful at best.

Joel will not give up final approval and I can see a huge power struggle down the line.
 

JPRouve

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At one point Blanc had full power on everything and that is confirmed by the Juventus website itself

https://www.juventus.com/it/club/la-storia/la-rinascita

A ottobre lascia la presidenza Giovanni Cobolli Gigli: i pieni poteri vanno a Jean-Claude Blanc. La squadra, partita molto bene, incappa però in una serie di infortuni che ne compromettono il rendimento globale.

Tutto sport which is basically the Juventus mouth piece state put forward the same argument I did. It highlights Blanc's ability in building the stadium but also the many mistakes the club did during his tenure both in transfers and managers

https://www.tuttosport.com/news/cal...-96651044/blanc_tra_i_flop_e_il_colpo_stadium
There is a difference between suggesting that someone made mistakes on the transfer market/hiring managers and stating that a club made mistakes in the same areas. The second one is accurate since Blanc wasn't the one doing transfers or picking managers, the same way Agnelli wasn't doing it. We both know who was in charge of that particular task, so there is no reason to muddy the water.

If you really want to criticize Blanc there is a very simple one, he and the board didn't replace Secco quickly enough.
 

devilish

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There is a difference between suggesting that someone made mistakes on the transfer market/hiring managers and stating that a club made mistakes in the same areas. The second one is accurate since Blanc wasn't the one doing transfers or picking managers, the same way Agnelli wasn't doing it. We both know who was in charge of that particular task, so there is no reason to muddy the water.

If you really want to criticize Blanc there is a very simple one, he and the board didn't replace Secco quickly enough.
Juventus had always been a club were the CEO had to know about football and were every football decision was taken by a committee made up by the owners, he top brass and the DOF. Actually the one with the lesser say was always the manager although some (ex Lippi) had more of a say then others. Which is why Juventus with all its/their flaws always had people who know football very well. You only have to hear Giovanni Agnelli to understand that the guy knew more about football then most average club owners. In fact it wasn't uncommon for journalists to ask him football questions ex what you think about referees during a certain game etc. There is a very valid reason why Blanc gets a share of the blame on transfers etc from both the media and the fans.


Blanc devi tornare al tour de france - Blanc you should return to the tour de france

Secco had his share of faults however he wasn't a dufus either. The guy was instrumental in keeping the likes of Del Piero, Marchisio and Buffon at Juventus during the Serie B. Let's not forget that the queen of Italian football had fount itself in the Serie B. The pressure at the time was horrible with their sporting director even involved in a suicide attempt.

I am interested on how Blanc faired after Juventus. Maybe you can help me out on that one.
 

JPRouve

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Juventus had always been a club were the CEO had to know about football and were every football decision was taken by a committee made up by the owners, he top brass and the DOF. Actually the one with the lesser say was always the manager although some (ex Lippi) had more of a say then others. Which is why Juventus with all its/their flaws always had people who know football very well. You only have to hear Giovanni Agnelli to understand that the guy knew more about football then most average club owners. In fact it wasn't uncommon for journalists to ask him football questions ex what you think about referees during a certain game etc. There is a very valid reason why Blanc gets a share of the blame on transfers etc from both the media and the fans.

Secco had his share of faults however he wasn't a dufus either. The guy was instrumental in keeping the likes of Del Piero, Marchisio and Buffon at Juventus during the Serie B. Let's not forget that the queen of Italian football had fount itself in the Serie B. The pressure at the time was horrible with their sporting director even involved in a suicide attempt.

I am interested on how Blanc faired after Juventus. Maybe you can help me out on that one.
I gave you that reason. You can criticize someone's job without having to imagine their role and I didn't suggest that Secco was a dufus in fact your paragraph about him tells you why he got a fair chance and wasn't quickly fired.

Basically based on your own assesment the person actually in charge of team construction including transfers and Football staff hiring wasn't a dufus and did a decent job in spite of a very difficult context. Blanc who was not a Football man but an administrator with a large experience in other sports namely Tennis, cyclism and motorsports did his job to a fairly high level.

And I will reiterate I don't have a clue about how well he would do at United, my issue is with the way you framed things. You know that he wasn't in charge of the areas you mentioned, you know who was in charge but somehow judge Blanc on those aspects, it makes no sense for at least two reasons, first because it wasn't his role and secondly because unless the man totally changed this year, it wouldn't be his role at United either.
 

Son

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Ratcliff should just put up or shut up

These things yo spout when you actually have bought the club. Not before
He won the competition to buy us didn’t he? That’s putting up as you can get. He’s just letting it known early to the clowns circus is moving town so they should move on with it.

I for one welcome our new petrol chemical overlord if he knows a banker making football decisions when he sees one.
 

Dan_F

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When are people going to wake up to the fact that Joel Glazer is the CEO in everything but name?

It’s like in the WWF in the ‘80’s with Jack Tunney as the president making all of the big decisions. When in reality it was Vince in the background with 100% control of everything.

Nothing will change until the Glazers leave. Every single decision has to be signed off by Joel, it’s one of the reasons that our transfers are so protracted. The CEO and DOF are virtually powerless imo.

The idea that Ratcliffe buys up 25% and suddenly becomes the lead decision maker is fanciful at best.

Joel will not give up final approval and I can see a huge power struggle down the line.
This will all be structured in contracts so I wouldn’t be too concerned. There won’t be any surprises where Jim gets caught by surprise, he’s not an idiot. It’s one of the reasons this is going to take a hell of a long time to complete.

I can only assume that the Glazers have realised they are fecking shite at owning the club and want to let someone else do it, while still keeping the money rolling in. The only way the club becomes more valuable is through success. The Glazers need this and can’t provide it.
 

Sunny Jim

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I dont get the Arnold hate, I mean there might be credible reasons so please entertain me and list them here.
I think Arnold's biggest mistake is keeping Murtogh in the job. Otherwise he speaks sense and the commercial side which is he responsible for is good.