Roman Abramovich plans to sell Chelsea | SOLD for £4.25BN

TheReligion

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Wait, wait wait...are some in this thread trying to argue that Abromovich is clean and has nothing to do with Putin?
Bizarrely yes.

They keep saying ‘if he’s found to be anything to do with what’s happening in Ukraine he should be punished’.

I’m not sure if they are just burying their heads or if they are just silly and don’t understand what’s going on. The sanctions are about applying pressure on the Russian government to stop what its doing (killing innocent people by starting an unprovoked war).

By crippling Russia, especially the Oligarchy who have/have had close links to the government and political sway, the idea is pressure mounts from within to force Putin to stop. This applies, sadly, to the Russian people too. They will feel it most of all.

That’s where we are at currently and to anyone with a brain it’s obvious RA and Usmanov fall into the high value, high profile targets given their connections past and present.

This constant push for ‘evidence’ of direct involvement in the war is pure deflection and quite frankly insulting to the people being killed and occupied currently.
 

adexkola

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It’s to turn powerful Russians against Putin by threatening their wealth and status. The idea is that it could help depose Mad Vlad. Of course we are hypocritical and he becomes a pawn but it’s a lever of power in this conflict.
I get that, which is why I questioned Abramovich's links to Putin today. It seems like he has distanced himself from Putin in recent years so any sanctions on him would be pointless in that regard. If they are still tied at the hip then sanction away.
 

Classical Mechanic

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I get that, which is why I questioned Abramovich's links to Putin today. It seems like he has distanced himself from Putin in recent years so any sanctions on him would be pointless in that regard. If they are still tied at the hip then sanction away.
Given he’s travelled to Ukraine to help negotiate with Russia it suggests that he’s been galvanised into some action.
 

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Definitely worth posting again. One of the most eloquent speeches I’ve ever seen from Mathew Syed on Roman and his wealth. It applied then and it applies today.
 

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Definitely worth posting again. One of the most eloquent speeches I’ve ever seen from Mathew Syed on Roman and his wealth. It applied then and it applies today.
Eloquent indeed. Had never seen it before, thanks for sharing.

EDIT:

Maybe the more interesting part is the reaction of those around him, and notably Cascarino, being very dismissive of the background elements he's presenting and focusing only on the success and glossy parts. Best way to illustrate sportswashing.

Also there seems to be an assumption in this thread that there needs to be a direct link between the Ukraine invasion and Abramovich for him to be guilty, whereas the real question is to what extent he and other oligarchs may have empowered and enabled Putin and his regime, and contributed to a situation where what is happening now was made possible. Whether it's legally or morally, how he is guilty remains to be seen, but you can't assume that unless there are pictures of him entering Ukraine barechested with an AK47 in each hand, there's nothing to be seen. It goes deeper than that, and it's got nothing to do with painting all Russians with one brush. The parallels with Jews during WW2 that some have been stupid enough to make here are particularly disgusting.

His actions since all this has begun, and the reaction of the Charitable trust members (who you can be sure have more insight into his affairs and are being advised by counsel), certainly don't paint a picture of "there's nothing here".
 
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Flying high

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Definitely worth posting again. One of the most eloquent speeches I’ve ever seen from Mathew Syed on Roman and his wealth. It applied then and it applies today.
What's interesting isn't what Syed says, it's the blustering search for a rebuttal from the sky presenters, and the fingers in the ears style 'I don't know(care) about that' from Cascarino. It's so reminiscent of many peoples' approach to politics in general.
 

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That Matthew Syed video is amazing and I remember watching it live. Sky fellating Abramovich all morning then an ex table tennis pro turned journalist comes on and says he’s a crook who fecked Russian people with his Kremlin buddies by claiming all the oil for themselves.

But he brought the likes of Shevchenko, Ballack and Crespo to these shores and that exonerates him from all that apparently.
 

TheReligion

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What's interesting isn't what Syed says, it's the blustering search for a rebuttal from the sky presenters, and the fingers in the ears style 'I don't know(care) about that' from Cascarino. It's so reminiscent of many peoples' approach to politics in general.
and is what some of our resident Chelsea fans are behaving like now!
 

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It's a good bit of journalism by Syed and he's written about it a various points in the last decade. I only know because Chelsea fans online always share the feck out of every one of those articles whilst complaining that he's got some kind of agenda against the club.

One sticking point for me would be his insistence that Abramovich bought the club to escape persecution from Putin, while the narrative now seems to be that he's supposed to be pals or at least have some kind of influence on Putin.
 

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It's a good bit of journalism by Syed and he's written about it a various points in the last decade. I only know because Chelsea fans online always share the feck out of every one of those articles whilst complaining that he's got some kind of agenda against the club.

One sticking point for me would be his insistence that Abramovich bought the club to escape persecution from Putin, while the narrative now seems to be that he's supposed to be pals or at least have some kind of influence on Putin.
I think the idea is that the club was his insurance policy against Putin, in case he ever fell foul of him (that he was far less likely to be killed compared to another equivalent oligarch who didn't have a major Western presence), not that he was escaping Putin in 2003 (which he very clearly was not).

Also, in these kinds of countries, you do not hold that kind of wealth without being on the dictator's radar and having at least some links with him. Which is not to say they're best buds necessarily but neither Abramovich nor any of the other oligarchs can operate without at least tacit approval from the leader.
 

Mickeza

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It's a good bit of journalism by Syed and he's written about it a various points in the last decade. I only know because Chelsea fans online always share the feck out of every one of those articles whilst complaining that he's got some kind of agenda against the club.

One sticking point for me would be his insistence that Abramovich bought the club to escape persecution from Putin, while the narrative now seems to be that he's supposed to be pals or at least have some kind of influence on Putin.
Just because you think you’re friendly with Putin today doesn’t mean you actually are or will be in 5 years time. It’s an insurance policy. Or was. What we’ve seen from Putin since shows being high profile and in the west won’t stop him.
 

WeePat

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I think the idea is that the club was his insurance policy against Putin, in case he ever fell foul of him (that he was far less likely to be killed compared to another equivalent oligarch who didn't have a major Western presence), not that he was escaping Putin in 2003 (which he very clearly was not).
Fair enough. Thanks. That explanation makes sense.

I have never really been particularly well read on Russian affairs, even with Abramovich being the owner of my club, so I've been doing a hell of a lot of reading and learning about Russia and it's history in the last 10 days or so.
 

Mb194dc

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Gaining wealth because you're an insider at some point is not exclusive to Russia!

Similar things go on in China, the Middle East, South America, Asia in many countries.

The point is Abramovich has been out of political circles for many, many years. He's deliberately cut all ties for a long time.

As far as we know, there's no evidence suggesting anything else.

He's nothing to do with Ukraine and his wealth is no different to many team owners in the league.

The only reason to be targeting him currently, is his RU passport.

Maybe you think all RU are evil now? Go have a long hard look at yourselves!

Don't be surprised when some group you're part of is next.
 

africanspur

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Gaining wealth because you're an insider at some point is not exclusive to Russia!

Similar things go on in China, the Middle East, South America, Asia in many countries.

The point is Abramovich has been out of political circles for many, many years. He's deliberately cut all ties for a long time.

As far as we know, there's no evidence suggesting anything else.

He's nothing to do with Ukraine and his wealth is no different to many team owners in the league.

The only reason to be targeting him currently, is his RU passport.

Maybe you think all RU are evil now? Go have a long hard look at yourselves!

Don't be surprised when some group you're part of is next.
:lol: :lol:

Yep, this is definitely a Nazi 'first they came for the Jews' situation.

Won't someone think of the oligarchs!!?
 

Harry190

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Yeah, the sweeping generalization about all Russians right now is quite odd.
 

Mb194dc

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TheReligion

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Gaining wealth because you're an insider at some point is not exclusive to Russia!

Similar things go on in China, the Middle East, South America, Asia in many countries.

The point is Abramovich has been out of political circles for many, many years. He's deliberately cut all ties for a long time.

As far as we know, there's no evidence suggesting anything else.

He's nothing to do with Ukraine and his wealth is no different to many team owners in the league.

The only reason to be targeting him currently, is his RU passport.

Maybe you think all RU are evil now? Go have a long hard look at yourselves!

Don't be surprised when some group you're part of is next.
you are really embarrassing yourself here

log off for a bit
 

Mb194dc

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you are really embarrassing yourself here

log off for a bit
It's hard to face you're part of a hysterical mob.

How would you characterise the threat to expell all Russians regardless?

What happens if whatever country you're a citizen of, does something that is nothing to do with you.

Despite having done nothing, you're deported home!
 

Rajiztar

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Tell me there isn't anti Russian mass hysteria in the UK ?

We already had a call in parliament to expell all Russians from the UK, regardless!!!

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/russia-citizens-visa-uk-roger-gale-b2024940.html

How would you describe such a threat?
I don't think even European union have any thing to stand against Roman.They recently sanctioned against usmanov. US,EU, UK all wanted to ban him but still couldn't find anything noteworthy to put blame on him.

As I said he either highly protected by West because of his Israeli route or not have anything against him to put him as Putin s closest circle not yet.
 

TheReligion

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It's hard to face you're part of a hysterical mob.

How would you characterise the threat to expell all Russians regardless?

What happens if whatever country you're a citizen of, does something that is nothing to do with you.

Despite having done nothing, you're deported home!
Are you Russian?

I find what you’re saying in here quite shameful and offensive if I’m honest. There’s a humanitarian crisis in Ukraine at the moment with hundreds of people being killed and you’re trying to draw parallels between sanctions on Oligarchs to the persecution of Jews by the Nazis?

Seriously awful posts
 

Grande

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Fair enough. Thanks. That explanation makes sense.

I have never really been particularly well read on Russian affairs, even with Abramovich being the owner of my club, so I've been doing a hell of a lot of reading and learning about Russia and it's history in the last 10 days or so.
I think the overview of what has happened in Russia since 1990 tells it’s own tale. After the dissolution of the USSR, and the crazily rash capitalism turn and privatization that came about, a lot of people scrambled for control over the most profitable National institutions laid out for sale. Noone could win out in that race without considerable contacts, financial flexibility AND military power, and the participants ranged from previous politicians and KGB officials, through young speculants, to organized crime networks. It was like a rogue state becoming mafia run over night. Abramovich, like many others, used network, bribes and financial muscles, and hired in a small army platoon (yes, with actual guns) to secure his purchase. He was close to Yeltsin and had an appartment within Kremlin at a point.

He was involved in the pointing out Putin as successor after Yeltsin. What many of the oligarchs underestimated, was Putin’s willingness and ability, through his connections with establishment and military factions, to partly re-nationalize much of the country’s resources in practice. Oligarchs had two options - sell out or pay protection money more or less. Well, there was the third option, of becoming an enemy of the state, leading to prison and confiscation, or in some cases, assasination.

The oligarchs left after that, have thread a fine line between securing their own interests and keeping Putin happy. Many of them are part of his inner circle. Others have left the country with most of their resources and have several insurance policies in place, while still collaborating with the Russian government. Owning a publicly known football club is one of the insurance policies.

What does that make Abramovich? A corrupt speculant stealing billions from the ordinary Russian citizen, and whose first priority is to secure his own enormous welth by cooperating with anyone he can, particularily including Putin and the governments of the countries where his monies are placed and funnelled through. I guess. It’s not a difficult guess, though.
 

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Gaining wealth because you're an insider at some point is not exclusive to Russia!

Similar things go on in China, the Middle East, South America, Asia in many countries.

The point is Abramovich has been out of political circles for many, many years. He's deliberately cut all ties for a long time.

As far as we know, there's no evidence suggesting anything else.

He's nothing to do with Ukraine and his wealth is no different to many team owners in the league.

The only reason to be targeting him currently, is his RU passport.

Maybe you think all RU are evil now? Go have a long hard look at yourselves!

Don't be surprised when some group you're part of is next.
Seriously, sit this one out.
 

WeePat

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I think the overview of what has happened in Russia since 1990 tells it’s own tale. After the dissolution of the USSR, and the crazily rash capitalism turn and privatization that came about, a lot of people scrambled for control over the most profitable National institutions laid out for sale. Noone could win out in that race without considerable contacts, financial flexibility AND military power, and the participants ranged from previous politicians and KGB officials, through young speculants, to organized crime networks. It was like a rogue state becoming mafia run over night. Abramovich, like many others, used network, bribes and financial muscles, and hired in a small army platoon (yes, with actual guns) to secure his purchase. He was close to Yeltsin and had an appartment within Kremlin at a point.

He was involved in the pointing out Putin as successor after Yeltsin. What many of the oligarchs underestimated, was Putin’s willingness and ability, through his connections with establishment and military factions, to partly re-nationalize much of the country’s resources in practice. Oligarchs had two options - sell out or pay protection money more or less. Well, there was the third option, of becoming an enemy of the state, leading to prison and confiscation, or in some cases, assasination.

The oligarchs left after that, have thread a fine line between securing their own interests and keeping Putin happy. Many of them are part of his inner circle. Others have left the country with most of their resources and have several insurance policies in place, while still collaborating with the Russian government. Owning a publicly known football club is one of the insurance policies.

What does that make Abramovich? A corrupt speculant stealing billions from the ordinary Russian citizen, and whose first priority is to secure his own enormous welth by cooperating with anyone he can, particularily including Putin and the governments of the countries where his monies are placed and funnelled through. I guess. It’s not a difficult guess, though.
The first paragraph is exactly the kind of thing Matthew Syed is talking about, right? I knew Abramovich was deeply corrupt in some ways. I'd obviously heard about how he accumulated his wealth, and read bits and bobs about the state of Russia after the collapse of the Soviet Union but it was all very surface level and I never really delved into it beyond that.

I understand what Syed is saying now.

Thanks a lot mate. I appreciate the time you took to write that. It's given me some more areas to read about and research.
 

africanspur

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Tell me there isn't anti Russian mass hysteria in the UK ?

We already had a call in parliament to expell all Russians from the UK, regardless!!!

How would you describe such a threat?
I would say that was the rambling of one idiot, who rightly was attacked and took his post down. I would say the same for anyone who similarly wanted to take reprisals against Russian citizens at large across Europe or against those of Russian origin.

To compare that to what happened in WW2 is offensive and ludicrous.

Its also particularly ludicrous because the only reason you care is because your owner is one of those people.

As I said above, not saying he's in Putin's inner circle or anything like that. But you do not build up and maintain such a drastic concentration of wealth in a dictatorship, especially one like Russia where the president has shown no issues with assassination of his enemies, without at least tacit approval from the leader to carry on with your activities.

Also has literally anyone ever said that gaining wealth from links is an exclusively Russian activity? It does happen in the ME and CHina and SE Asia and its equally as scummy there. And yes, many of the owners in the PL are also terrible.
 

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Definitely worth posting again. One of the most eloquent speeches I’ve ever seen from Mathew Syed on Roman and his wealth. It applied then and it applies today.
God Cascarino sounds so lost here.
 

Mb194dc

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Are you Russian?

I find what you’re saying in here quite shameful and offensive if I’m honest. There’s a humanitarian crisis in Ukraine at the moment with hundreds of people being killed and you’re trying to draw parallels between sanctions on Oligarchs to the persecution of Jews by the Nazis?

Seriously awful posts
Notwithstanding what's happening in Ukraine, which is awful.

Shutting the debate down is also what happened in the authoritarian regimes of the past. Also see the 1st amendment of the US constitution.

There is a reason why it's 1.

You didn't answer my question.

How would you characterise calls to expel all Russians from the UK, regardless of their actions or family situations?
 
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Also just one example from a quick Google, yes he's dead, but:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/nov/13/leicester-owner-king-power-face-corruption-charges-thailand#:~:text=A judge at the central,Srivaddhanaprabha, and his son Aiyawatt.

Go checkout the owners of other teams, see how clean the money is ?
“He’s dead but”?

Allegedly short changing the Thai Govt is nowhere near how RA got his wealth.

Stop taking this as a personal assault on you/Chelsea. Show some discernment.
 
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Notwithstanding what's happening in Ukraine, which is awful.

Shutting the debate down is also what happened in the authoritarian regimes of the past. Also see the 1st amendment of the US constitution.

There is a reason why it's 1.

You didn't answer my question.

How would you characterise calls to expel all Russians from the UK, regardless of their actions or family situations?
One tool of an MP (probably trying to prove to his constituents hes “serious”) is not a reason to shove this shit down our throats.
 

TheReligion

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Notwithstanding what's happening in Ukraine, which is awful.

Shutting the debate down is also what happened in the authoritarian regimes of the past. Also see the 1st amendment of the US constitution.

There is a reason why it's 1.

You didn't answer my question.

How would you characterise calls to expel all Russians from the UK, regardless of their actions or family situations?
Are you Russian?
 

Mb194dc

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Further, Abramovich can rot in jail if he's complicit in Ukraine.

I couldn't care less about him personally. Despite my club support.

I could care about the way an entire nation of people is being characteristised and threatened. Almost all of the 144m+ whom will be innocent for Ukraine.

It wouldn't matter to me if they're Russian, Ughars, any race or nationality.

What matters is only the guilty are dealt with, not everybody, regardless of their actions or not!
 

Mb194dc

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Are you Russian?
Some of my family were born citizens of the Russian empire.

Subsequently they became citizens of the first Latvian republic.

They were nearly all murdered by the Nazis or conscripted in to the Red Army. I still have a passport from the 1st Latvian republic from a family member.

They were all tarred with the same brush too, be it for being Jews or enemies of the USSR people....

Some escaped and got to the US and UK.

I'm telling you, judge people on their individual merits.

Not because they are Russian or anything else.

If you judge Abramovich for his dodgy money grab years ago. Judge all owners.

If he's guilty for Ukraine, present evidence let him be punished.
 

TheReligion

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Further, Abramovich can rot in jail if he's complicit in Ukraine.

I couldn't care less about him personally. Despite my club support.

I could care about the way an entire nation of people is being characteristised and threatened. Almost all of the 144m+ whom will be innocent for Ukraine.

It wouldn't matter to me if they're Russian, Ughars, any race or nationality.

What matters is only the guilty are dealt with, not everybody, regardless of their actions or not!
Some of my family were born citizens of the Russian empire.

Subsequently they became citizens of the first Latvian republic.

They were nearly all murdered by the Nazis or conscripted in to the Red Army. I still have a passport from the 1st Latvian republic from a family member.

They were all tarred with the same brush too, be it for being Jews or enemies of the USSR people....

Some escaped and got to the US and UK.

I'm telling you, judge people on their individual merits.

Not because they are Russian or anything else.

If you judge Abramovich for his dodgy money grab years ago. Judge all owners.

If he's guilty for Ukraine, present evidence let him be punished.
That explains your reaction then to a degree

I’ll also say it again; you do understand he doesn’t have to be directly involved in Ukraine to be held accountable don’t you?
 

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That explains your reaction then to a degree

I’ll also say it again; you do understand he doesn’t have to be directly involved in Ukraine to be held accountable don’t you?
You've read his posts, you know he obviously doesn't. He's going round in circles, bringing up some really unsavoury parallels, which is usually the sign that it's time to log off
 

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The serious incident report was triggered when the board appointed by Roman put in a request for more information about if they can legally carry out the duties of overseeing the club and not be in violation of charity specific law.
 

Grande

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The first paragraph is exactly the kind of thing Matthew Syed is talking about, right? I knew Abramovich was deeply corrupt in some ways. I'd obviously heard about how he accumulated his wealth, and read bits and bobs about the state of Russia after the collapse of the Soviet Union but it was all very surface level and I never really delved into it beyond that.

I understand what Syed is saying now.

Thanks a lot mate. I appreciate the time you took to write that. It's given me some more areas to read about and research.
No sweat, mate. We’re all kidnapped by our owners, just like today, most russians and many ukrainians are kidnapped by their president.