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Not incorrect, just my opinion. I would think differently if peoples opinions of players is the same irrespective of how they are playing but should he start scoring again as he did previously here, it will be all forgotten. Thats why I made reference previously to Pogs.I agree opinions can’t be wrong.
Your assumption that Lukaku is only being used as a scapegoat and thats what’s happened to Pogba, lingard and now happening to Lukaku is incorrect.
Lukaku is being picked apart because of his touch and lack of Involvement, whether that be pressing or making runs. Not just because fellaini is no longer here to pick on or Pogba changed his haircut once upon a time and had some grief.
If you watch Lukaku and are happy with his runs made, his pressing contribution and his technical ability then fair enough, it doesn’t impress me much though.
You're looking at this all wrong, trying to create arguments to fit a pre-defined answer.Said it already. Most of this new optimism started 12 games ago prior to that I dont have amnesia of peoples thoughts on Pogs and Rashford. Finally we are playing the football we all hoped we would but some players have had the opportunity to embrace it more than others. All im interested in is getting him scoring goals again as we will be better for it. Hes scored all his career and I dont understand why the answer on here seems to be selling players when we are suppose to be supporting them. The irony is this is exactly what Ole has done and look at the outcome....did people not see his contribution against Arsenal or does that not count.
I get that....I dont know what the decline has been about but I guess it might be the polar opposite to why we have seen an upturn in others. Im hopeful that he finds his goalscoring form as we will be better for it.He was a brilliant player, and I disagree with the people who say he wasn't good enough for this club - we thought we had the player who scored 25+ goals per season in Everton, and he did do that in his first year here. The issue is he has definitely declined as a player - he is bulky physically and can barely trap the ball now
You can't have two players make the same runs. If he sees Paul sprinting into the box it isn't a race. Either run to the other post or hang back to give Rashford options.Watch him casually labour into the box as Pogba bursts forward to get on the end of Rashdord's cross and score.
Pathetic. The one moment in the game he is called upon and he lets midfielders get a march on him.
I give up.Not incorrect, just my opinion. I would think differently if peoples opinions of players is the same irrespective of how they are playing but should he start scoring against as he did previously, it will be all forgotten. Thats why I made reference previously to Pogs.
That is the standard we are trying to reach and if we go back to 2003 I would argue Lukaku is the worst main striker we have had since then. Even Berbatov as a back up who was considered a flop, managed to top score in a league campaign and deliver us a title. Lukaku feels like a downgrade on all but maybe I am just biased.Wow...if in doubt compare a player to previous Utd forwards. Worse than that, compare him to one of the best players ever to lace a pair of football boots and Utd record goalscorer. If we start comparing players to the previous gen, we are fecked. No he's not the 3rd right now but neither are we and haven't been for sometime.
So you are going to compare Rom's goal scoring at Everton, which incidentally probably kept them out of relegation to Rooney, RVN, CR7 and Berb playing with Becks, Giggs, Keane, Scholes, Stam, Rio, Vidic, Tevez...et al. Yep completely fair comparison.
Ok only scored 16 goals..... in one of the worst Utd teams I've seen for decades with a manager that focused on not conceding that scoring. Yep you are right in the gulf of class but don't stop at Rom, cause 90% of this team wouldn't get in those teams either.
He's a goalscorer and thats what wins matches. Not sure why anyone would want to lose 25 goals a season to bring in someone more technical like the guy everyone wanted that went to Chelsea to score less.
he was never a brilliant player as even when he was scoring we knew he had major limitations and its strange no major European giants had moved for him. Also 25 goals per season is no longer the standard when we are playing close to 50 games per year especially when we can only expect one goal in 10 against are closest rivals and he'll turn up and pad his stats vs minnows. We may as well have signed Jamie Vardy. Also his strike rate is similar to Yakubu's in the EPL and I never regarded Yakubu as United quality.He was a brilliant player, and I disagree with the people who say he wasn't good enough for this club - we thought we had the player who scored 25+ goals per season in Everton, and he did do that in his first year here. The issue is he has definitely declined as a player - he is bulky physically and can barely trap the ball now
I actually thought he did ok too. Maybe he was not as bad as usual.Thought he played OK last night, But he isn't going to survive here long term with the style Ole wants I don't think.
Football is about opinions and been on here long enough that we all get more wrong than right. For that reason, most of us arent paid to make football decisions. I believe in him and think hes a much better player than some on here give him credit for.You're looking at this all wrong, trying to create arguments to fit a pre-defined answer.
In general, being wrong about A doesn't mean you have to be wrong about B, being wrong or being right isn't always clear cut in football, the important thing is what the opinion is based on. As an example, lets look at Mkhi at the start of last season, his stats alone were sublime but everything behind the numbers were worrying, yet people were being ridiculed and "had an agenda" for pointing it out. Suggesting we'd be better off playing Lingard, before it became a popular opinion, was even worse. People just didn't understand the concept of it, until it became glaringly obvious and "everyone" jumped on it. If people didn't understand it in the first place, i'm not sure they understood it once it became a popular opinion either.
In regards to Rashford, i argued that if our intention was to keep rotating him out wide, we'd be better off loaning him out to a team that'd be willing to play him as a striker. Obviously we'd be worse off now if we had loaned him out, but Rashford is being given the chance to nail down his place as a striker, a chance Mourinho was not willing to give him. People ridicule the notion that he should've been loaned out, mocking Redknapp for stating it, pointing to how he's performing now, but they're completely missing the key point.
The Pogba debate isn't easy to compare, it's not as clear cut as you pretend it is, a large part of it was down to forum members having a go at him because they supported Mourinho.
In regards to Lukaku, it's tempting to bring up the earlier debates and the references made to Saha vs Nistelrooy, Firminio at Liverpool. You can replace a player that has superior goalscoring stats with a different type of player and get the entire team to perform better. The key is mobility, players constantly changing positions and making themselves available to receive the ball, occupying players so that others are free to receive the ball. The Lukaku we've seen for the past 12 months is not a player that fits into those plans, so either he improves in the time he has until summer or we'll most likely try to offload him and get someone in that fits the football we're trying to play. A good performance against Arsenal doesn't change anything in terms of the bigger picture.
Yes, but no one is going to talk about it. He wasn't even on the screen at one point. Really think he should have attacked the cut-back more aggressively though.You can't have two players make the same runs. If he sees Paul sprinting into the box it isn't a race. Either run to the other post or hang back to give Rashford options.
He made the run beyond the defenders for the other Rashford run?
I was thinking that Sanchez deserves a chance to start and Lukaku has not done enough to secure the spot during this spell of injuries. I agree that in current form there isn't much in itThe problem is that the alternative is probably Sanchez. Not much of an improvement. I'd say at least Lukaku is more likely to stumble onto the ball and score.
Agreed. There is no hidden agenda or anything like that. Its not like hes a former Liverpool player, has talked shite in the media or has a very flamboyant personality or any other factors that could make fans turn on him. The reason is simply his on field contributions, or lack thereof which people has had enough of.I agree opinions can’t be wrong.
Your assumption that Lukaku is only being used as a scapegoat and thats what’s happened to Pogba, lingard and now happening to Lukaku is incorrect.
Lukaku is being picked apart because of his touch and lack of Involvement, whether that be pressing or making runs. Not just because fellaini is no longer here to pick on or Pogba changed his haircut once upon a time and had some grief.
If you watch Lukaku and are happy with his runs made, his pressing contribution and his technical ability then fair enough, it doesn’t impress me much though.
I think you need to pipe down.Who are these people? Tag them or stop talking nonsense. People call out Lukaku shit touch, bad work rate and overall the lack of what he brings to the team. Simple really.
Is anything more daft than making threats on an internet forum? What are you proposing if he doesn’t pipe down?I think you need to pipe down.
Did you not see the thread after the Arsenal game?
We won the game and he played a big part in it,with two assists one of which was world class but still people came in here to criticize him.
So there's no logic to it ? You just believe it ?Football is about opinions and been on here long enough that we all get more wrong than right. For that reason, most of us arent paid to make football decisions. I believe in him and think hes a much better player than some on here give him credit for.
I’m sorry if that offended you. It would be nice to quote the people you mention that have their claws out instead of just making it up though.I think you need to pipe down.
Did you not see the thread after the Arsenal game?
We won the game and he played a big part in it,with two assists one of which was world class but still people came in here to criticize him.
But the space was in front of him, if he runs across he runs the risk of being offside.Yes, but no one is going to talk about it. He wasn't even on the screen at one point. Really think he should have attacked the cut-back more aggressively though.
He's never been that. Not if the required standard is "world class", "elite" or whatever term one prefers. When he arrived , the premise (for most of us, at least) was that he needed to add something to his game. We (again, most of us) didn't think the player he was at Everton was good enough, with no further improvement, to lead the line for a team with ambitions of winning major trophies.It all indicates that Lukaku is simply not up to the standard required.
This is a big point that many on here can't seem to comprehend. It's the same logic that has people praising "goalscorers" who just "score goals" but when those jammy goals aren't going in they wonder why their star striker seems shit. Production doesn't always equal a good performance, just like not producing doesn't always mean a player was shit that day. Yes Lukaku had a really nice assist against Arsenal, and a pretty standard second one. That doesn't mean he was "fantastic" and played really well his entire time on the pitch, and people aren't singling him out unfairly if they still wish to criticize an aspect of his performance.As for Lukaku and arsenal, again someone can play like a pile of shite and still assist a goal. That’s one moment out of 90 minutes.
Just because someone got an asssit they do not automatically become immune from criticism for the rest of their performance.
When was there ever logic in football....Like I said elsewhere, I'm focusing on the positives and if we can get Rom playing to what he does best which is scoring goals and get Sanchez anywhere near what he was at Arsenal, why wouldn't I or anyone else want that? If they don't after playing under Ole for more than 12 games, fair enough.So there's no logic to it ? You just believe it ?
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Maybe it's me (probably) and maybe I'm getting too old for this stuff. Not sure where you are making this rubbish up as there is no where I've suggested he's not open to criticism. I think also I said some wanted Pogs sold and those that posted it, it felt more did at the time than were suggesting otherwise. What people think he is or isn't is a matter of opinion but the greatest club in the world think currently he is. His international team does too who are ranked No.1. These are facts and not forum speak. Amazing how a guy who can't control the ball leads the line for the best ranked international team? Somehow he's also ranked in 33 in the players in the world? Rakitic is 32. Feck me who are these people? Don't they know he can't trap a ball?I’m sorry if that offended you. It would be nice to quote the people you mention that have their claws out instead of just making it up though.
I see it lots, people doing this people doing that, person A,B & C wants Pogba sold, 2 months later persons X,Y & Z say Pogba had a stormer and they get met with a tonne of agenda and narrative abuse. All lumped into one big pot as if EVERYONE wanted Pogba sold.
I’m sure it’s fair to not take a liking to one player without it meaning your’e obsessed with another player or treated so and so differently.
As for Lukaku and arsenal, again someone can play like a pile of shite and still assist a goal. That’s one moment out of 90 minutes.
Just because someone got an asssit they do not automatically become immune from criticism for the rest of their performance.
A lot of this post also applies to @Litch
If he plays shit for 89 mins and scores the goal to win the CL, how many are going to single out what went on before it? It's the nature of football and seen it many times on match day where some can criticise and praise a player on the same page when they have scored. Like I said, maybe some of us like Ole want to bring positivity as it's surprising what that can achieve in a short period of time. The classic is whilst on here Some people are posting negative stuff about how we are playing, the away fans are singing to lift the players game. Couldn't be anymore clearer the difference in fans that support the same team...This is a big point that many on here can't seem to comprehend. It's the same logic that has people praising "goalscorers" who just "score goals" but when those jammy goals aren't going in they wonder why their star striker seems shit. Production doesn't always equal a good performance, just like not producing doesn't always mean a player was shit that day. Yes Lukaku had a really nice assist against Arsenal, and a pretty standard second one. That doesn't mean he was "fantastic" and played really well his entire time on the pitch, and people aren't singling him out unfairly if they still wish to criticize an aspect of his performance.
I’m with you. I shared the same sentiments, except I didn’t expect him to learn how to manipulate a football much better than he already could at 24. He was never good enough, however, the mitigation was that I thought he would somehow manage to get 30 goals a season, in which case I’d overlook his obvious deficiencies.He's never been that. Not if the required standard is "world class", "elite" or whatever term one prefers. When he arrived , the premise (for most of us, at least) was that he needed to add something to his game. We (again, most of us) didn't think the player he was at Everton was good enough, with no further improvement, to lead the line for a team with ambitions of winning major trophies.
He did seem to develop his overall game to a degree - but then he regressed rather badly.
And what we have now is not a world beater horribly out of form - but a player who, arguably at that, still has the potential of becoming a world beater IF he adds significantly to his overall game (but who has been terribly out of form for months). I don't think it's particularly surprising that people aren't overly enamored with him these days.
Exactly this.I’m with you. I shared the same sentiments, except I didn’t expect him to learn how to manipulate a football much better than he already could at 24. He was never good enough, however, the mitigation was that I thought he would somehow manage to get 30 goals a season, in which case I’d overlook his obvious deficiencies.
Without the rate of goals, he’s being exposed here. He’s not a Firmino who is good enough to get away with not being a 25 goal striker. A 15 goal Inzaghi is a rubbish footballer. A Lukaku who cannot guarantee a minimum of 25 league goals isn’t good enough.
You're being conservative when you say negative stuff. It's downright discusting stuff directed at our own players, that says more about the poster than our players. We're lucky we have actual fans at the games who support the team rather than some of the constant moaners on here.If he plays shit for 89 mins and scores the goal to win the CL, how many are going to single out what went on before it? It's the nature of football and seen it many times on match day where some can criticise and praise a player on the same page when they have scored. Like I said, maybe some of us like Ole want to bring positivity as it's surprising what that can achieve in a short period of time. The classic is whilst on here Some people are posting negative stuff about how we are playing, the away fans are singing to lift the players game. Couldn't be anymore clearer the difference in fans that support the same team...
Well, it certainly explains a lot if you don't think logic exists in football, and especially when it comes to analyzing player performances.When was there ever logic in football....Like I said elsewhere, I'm focusing on the positives and if we can get Rom playing to what he does best which is scoring goals and get Sanchez anywhere near what he was at Arsenal, why wouldn't I or anyone else want that? If they don't after playing under Ole for more than 12 games, fair enough.
'logically' there's no way Ole should have achieved what he has in such a short space of time.
Firstly sorry, I didn’t mean to imply you said he couldn’t receive criticism.Maybe it's me (probably) and maybe I'm getting too old for this stuff. Not sure where you are making this rubbish up as there is no where I've suggested he's not open to criticism. I think also I said some wanted Pogs sold and those that posted it, it felt more did at the time than were suggesting otherwise. What people think he is or isn't is a matter of opinion but the greatest club in the world think currently he is. His international team does too who are ranked No.1. These are facts and not forum speak. Amazing how a guy who can't control the ball leads the line for the best ranked international team? Somehow he's also ranked in 33 in the players in the world? Rakitic is 32. Feck me who are these people? Don't they know he can't trap a ball?
For me, I think he's struggling at mo no doubt but I've seen signs particularly in the Arsenal game and yesterday that things are improving. Not sure how any fan wouldn't want that from their own player nor am I sure why any fan would minimise the contribution of a player that's won us a football match by focusing on the things that he didn't do.
Like I said maybe it's me....
It’s totaly different scoring a winning goal in a final, surely you see that. See my post above which loosely relates to it.If he plays shit for 89 mins and scores the goal to win the CL, how many are going to single out what went on before it? It's the nature of football and seen it many times on match day where some can criticise and praise a player on the same page when they have scored. Like I said, maybe some of us like Ole want to bring positivity as it's surprising what that can achieve in a short period of time. The classic is whilst on here Some people are posting negative stuff about how we are playing, the away fans are singing to lift the players game. Couldn't be anymore clearer the difference in fans that support the same team...
While Lukaku was woeful in the second half, you can’t put the blame on him here. The ball needed more weight on it and to be played slightly closer to the keeper. You can see Lukaku has to stop to wait for the ball instead of running onto it, look at Luiz and why he gets there first. Lukaku did well to be the furthest back outfield player to then being in the opposition box for the cross.This was a particularly frustrating piece of play from him. He runs all that way forward and then stops and expects the ball to roll freely to him in the opposition penalty area. He should know he's being closed down and he should be moving towards the ball to try and get a shot away before he is tackled. Is he that clueless he doesn't know they are there? Is he so low on confidence he doesn't actually want it to reach him?
It's a frequent occurrence with his hold up play, he often stands still waiting for the ball to reach him allowing a defender to nip in front and intercept.
Which is also why the match thread can be cancerous at times. Also, that's great that people want to be positive but this is a football discussion forum. Lukaku isn't sitting in this thread reading every post (at least I hope not), and us criticizing him or any other player on here isn't going to affect how they play during the match. Fans at a match have a duty to try and lift the players, but sitting at my desk on a Tuesday morning I don't have the same duty, especially not while sitting on the fecking internet.If he plays shit for 89 mins and scores the goal to win the CL, how many are going to single out what went on before it? It's the nature of football and seen it many times on match day where some can criticise and praise a player on the same page when they have scored. Like I said, maybe some of us like Ole want to bring positivity as it's surprising what that can achieve in a short period of time. The classic is whilst on here Some people are posting negative stuff about how we are playing, the away fans are singing to lift the players game. Couldn't be anymore clearer the difference in fans that support the same team...
I’m sorry if that offended you. It would be nice to quote the people you mention that have their claws out instead of just making it up though.
I see it lots, people doing this people doing that, person A,B & C wants Pogba sold, 2 months later persons X,Y & Z say Pogba had a stormer and they get met with a tonne of agenda and narrative abuse. All lumped into one big pot as if EVERYONE wanted Pogba sold.
I’m sure it’s fair to not take a liking to one player without it meaning your’e obsessed with another player or treated so and so differently.
As for Lukaku and arsenal, again someone can play like a pile of shite and still assist a goal. That’s one moment out of 90 minutes.
Just because someone got an asssit they do not automatically become immune from criticism for the rest of their performance.
A lot of this post also applies to @Litch
I don't blame him for not scoring it but at least attempt to get to it. It's one of the most basic things you're taught in football, to come to the ball. He looked like he didn't want it.While Lukaku was woeful in the second half, you can’t put the blame on him here. The ball needed more weight on it and to be played slightly closer to the keeper. You can see Lukaku has to stop to wait for the ball instead of running onto it, look at Luiz and why he gets there first. Lukaku did well to be the furthest back outfield player to then being in the opposition box for the cross.
