[VoN_DamN]

Imagine using Fifa ranks to evaluate teams are poor or not. England, Swiitzerland and Uruguay are above Spain in the ranking as well. Guess that means Spain are really poor doesn't it ?

Belgium have far more quality than anyhing the Swiss can gather for this match.

Football is mostly result driven but you are right, not the only thing to consider. But you cannot reach top 10 in a worldwide ranking on luck only. They were both playing under their level, maybe the opposition had something to do with it. If you only get 4 out of 10 in a quiz, doesn’t mean you’re ignorant, the other player might just be as smart and have 4 other questions right. Although both scores are under par, still, when compaired to 100 others it will give you a relative value of their knowledge, compaired to others. If these tests are repeated periodically, if only 7 score better, it means a lot of contenders score way lower in that given period.

Spain has been poor as a team for a certain period for sure, imagine sentiment taking over for results. If Spain would have played to their ability, they would be higher up there for sure. So they are a good team because they should be able to play better or when they are playing better?

 

[el3mel]

Football is mostly result driven but you are right, not the only thing to consider. But you cannot reach top 10 in a worldwide ranking on luck only. They were both playing under their level, maybe the opposition had something to do with it. If you only get 4 out of 10 in a quiz, doesn’t mean you’re ignorant, the other player might just be as smart and have 4 other questions right. Although both scores are under par, still, when compaired to 100 others it will give you a relative value of their knowledge, compaired to others. If these tests are repeated periodically, if only 7 score better, it means a lot of contenders score way lower in that given period.

Spain has been poor as a team for a certain period for sure, imagine sentiment taking over for results. If Spain would have played to their ability, they would be higher up there for sure. So they are a good team because they should be able to play better or when they are playing better?

Poor or good aside, my point is you can't depend on Fifa ranking to evaluate teams. It's points dependent and the ranking depends on complicated formula of points gained per match or competitions..etc. You can check the formula yourself on Fifa official page if you want.

 

[starman]

Was thinking about it the other day, the increased muscle hes added. He used to be lean, nimble and dynamic. Even his strike of the ball was more decisive


Much more tugboat then speedboat now

 

[Efcman]

Not sure where the £90m came from except Sky? Everywhere I read was £75m plus add ons.

We have already collect one add on of 5mill, which was he would be would take about moving while on international duty.

 

[SupaFella]

For a player that is best served he's not really getting served enough and this translate's to a comparably lower amount of goals. Heck comparably to other teams he's a more effecient striker even. Do take in mind that United only created 10 big chances in 8 matches versus for example 21 big chances for City, 17 big chances for Chelsea and 14 big chances for Liverpool. Their top strikers respectivly have 5 goals (Aguerro) 7 goals (Hazard) and 4 goals (Mane) which translates to a "goal efficiency in relation to big chances created by the team" of 23% for Aguerro, 28% for Mane, 40% for Lukaku and 41% for Hazard. This picture would however not be complete withought mentioning that respectivly Hazard also has 3 assists to his name and Aguerro 2. Depending on the weight you give to those assists Aguerro will be closer to Lukaku and Hazard proves even more "too OP for the league". Extrapolations however can also be made for if United had created a comparable amount of big chances as city in which case Lukaku should have 8 goals by now. Then you can still take those 8 goals above Aguerro's 5 goals and 2 assists even if Lukaku takes less of a role in the actual build up. So my perspective remains that Lukaku should simply be served more big chances by his team.

Last year united created 60 big chances whereas city created 95 big chances. Romulu scored 16 goals and made 7 assists whereas Aguerro made 21 goals and 6 assists. If we take an equal weight for goals and assists then it's 23 vs 27 respectivly. That would be an effeciency in comparison to big chances created of respectivly 38% versus 28.5% . So compare that to this year by the same metrics and that boils down to 40% versus 33%. Hazard had 12 goals and 4 assists for 60 chances created which would be only 27% in relative bad year. Both Eden and Lukaku created 9 big chances of their own that year whereas Sergio created 10.

What about Salah? 3 goals and 1 assists this year puts him next to Mane. Liverpool created 78 big chances last year where Salah had 32 goals and 10 assists for an effeciency of 54%. By the same Metric hazard's effeciency this year would be 59% currently.

 

[Riz]

For a player that is best served he's not really getting served enough and this translate's to a comparably lower amount of goals. Heck comparably to other teams he's a more effecient striker even. Do take in mind that United only created 10 big chances in 8 matches versus for example 21 big chances for City, 17 big chances for Chelsea and 14 big chances for Liverpool. Their top strikers respectivly have 5 goals (Aguerro) 7 goals (Hazard) and 4 goals (Mane) which translates to a "goal efficiency in relation to big chances created by the team" of 23% for Aguerro, 28% for Mane, 40% for Lukaku and 41% for Hazard. This picture would however not be complete withought mentioning that respectivly Hazard also has 3 assists to his name and Aguerro 2. Depending on the weight you give to those assists Aguerro will be closer to Lukaku and Hazard proves even more "too OP for the league". Extrapolations however can also be made for if United had created a comparable amount of big chances as city in which case Lukaku should have 8 goals by now. Then you can still take those 8 goals above Aguerro's 5 goals and 2 assists even if Lukaku takes less of a role in the actual build up. So my perspective remains that Lukaku should simply be served more big chances by his team.

Last year united created 60 big chances whereas city created 95 big chances. Romulu scored 16 goals and made 7 assists whereas Aguerro made 21 goals and 6 assists. If we take an equal weight for goals and assists then it's 23 vs 27 respectivly. That would be an effeciency in comparison to big chances created of respectivly 38% versus 28.5% . So compare that to this year by the same metrics and that boils down to 40% versus 33%. Hazard had 12 goals and 4 assists for 60 chances created which would be only 27% in relative bad year. Both Eden and Lukaku created 9 big chances of their own that year whereas Sergio created 10.

What about Salah? 3 goals and 1 assists this year puts him next to Mane. Liverpool created 78 big chances last year where Salah had 32 goals and 10 assists for an effeciency of 54%. By the same Metric hazard's effeciency this year would be 59% currently.

There is an argument for us needing to create more for him, when surrounded by superior creative players for Belgium he’s scores a lot.

However no stats will dress up the fact that he’s missed several big chances already this season. Some of them were at key moments as well like the chance to take the lead against both Brighton and Spurs.

 

[ABC of Football]

I like Lukaku a lot. When we bought him, I thought he would be that player, who'd score goals vs all the teams outside the top 6, which is something we have sometimes struggled against. He has mainly done that for us to be fair. My biggest gripe with him, is I thought he would massively improve under us. Which he has, but not enough YET to lead a top team.

His biggest weakness is actually a mental thing. When he plays well, I actually think he seems to be decent enough at everything. But when he is poor, he is really poor. I cant remember which match it was (probably quite a few matches this season), where he just disappeared, and whenever the ball came in to him, he was dispossessed or beaten in the air, and when given a good chance, he missed the target completely. In that way hes been very disappointing, and our biggest problem this year has been, when he doesn't score, we seem to hardly score.

Hes the kind of striker who needs others to make chances for him. And that's where we havnt been good enough. I don't know if it is Jose or the team, but we don't play to his strengths. We lump the ball forward to him, and he doesn't win much. He has quite a bit of pace to him, and if we can find him in behind a defence, we would probably improve a lot in attacking areas.

I am a big fan of his, and I think he will develop to the next level, but at this moment in time, I don't know if that level is enough to be a very top tier level. And even more important I don't know if we can carry his inconsistencies, because he doesn't offer anything at the moment if he isn't scoring.

 

[VeevaVee]

My biggest gripe with him, is I thought he would massively improve under us. Which he has, but not enough YET to lead a top team.

Has he though? I don't think he's any better than when at Everton.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Has he though? I don't think he's any better than when at Everton.

I don’t see any improvement in him at all. Most disappointing is that he’s unable to make a goal for himself - and that’s why he doesn’t score against the big teams, when things are tight and against a decent defence he’s not going to get tap ins, he needs to make hanged for himself, and he doesn’t and never has done. He will always be a flat track bully, which is great for a lot of teams, but not us if we want to challenge for the title.

 

[SupaFella]

However no stats will dress up the fact that he’s missed several big chances already this season. Some of them were at key moments as well like the chance to take the lead against both Brighton and Spurs.

He created 1 big chance and missed 4 big chances to be more precise, and indeed thats a fairly high number at this moment. Last year he created 9 big chances and missed 11. These stats tend to be fairly different depending on the year afaik, for example Aguerro missed 13* big chances last year afaik whereas Harry Kane missed 18 big chances and only created 5 big chances himself.

*edited

 

[roonster09]

He created 1 big chance and missed 4 big chances to be more precise, and indeed thats a fairly high number at this moment. Last year he created 9 big chances and missed 11. These stats tend to be fairly different depending on the year afaik, for example Aguerro only missed 5 big chances last year afaik whereas Harry Kane missed 18 big chances and only created 5 big chances himself.

Aguero missed 13 big chances last season, 5th in PL table for big chances missed.

 

[ABC of Football]

I like Lukaku a lot. When we bought him, I thought he would be that player, who'd score goals vs all the teams outside the top 6, which is something we have sometimes struggled against. He has mainly done that for us to be fair. My biggest gripe with him, is I thought he would massively improve under us. Which he has, but not enough YET to lead a top team.

His biggest weakness is actually a mental thing. When he plays well, I actually think he seems to be decent enough at everything. But when he is poor, he is really poor. I cant remember which match it was (probably quite a few matches this season), where he just disappeared, and whenever the ball came in to him, he was dispossessed or beaten in the air, and when given a good chance, he missed the target completely. In that way hes been very disappointing, and our biggest problem this year has been, when he doesn't score, we seem to hardly score.

Hes the kind of striker who needs others to make chances for him. And that's where we havnt been good enough. I don't know if it is Jose or the team, but we don't play to his strengths. We lump the ball forward to him, and he doesn't win much. He has quite a bit of pace to him, and if we can find him in behind a defence, we would probably improve a lot in attacking areas.

I am a big fan of his, and I think he will develop to the next level, but at this moment in time, I don't know if that level is enough to be a very top tier level. And even more important I don't know if we can carry his inconsistencies, because he doesn't offer anything at the moment if he isn't scoring.

I think he has. His link up is a lot better then I remember when watching him on television. His issue is, its not been consistent enough, especially when off form.

 

[ABC of Football]

Has he though? I don't think he's any better than when at Everton.

I think he has. His link up is a lot better then I remember when watching him on television. His issue is, its not been consistent enough, especially when off form.

 

[GifLord]

He created 1 big chance and missed 4 big chances to be more precise, and indeed thats a fairly high number at this moment. Last year he created 9 big chances and missed 11. These stats tend to be fairly different depending on the year afaik, for example Aguerro missed 13* big chances last year afaik whereas Harry Kane missed 18 big chances and only created 5 big chances himself.

*edited

Aguero missed 13 big chances last season, 5th in PL table for big chances missed.

You can't compare Lukaku to those 2 because they can both create their own chances that's why their percentage of missed chances is so big. Lukaku just can't do that

 

[roonster09]

You can't compare Lukaku to those 2 because they can both create their own chances that's why their percentage of missed chances is so big. Lukaku just can't do that

Nothing to do with the point. It's about big chances missed. No one compared Lukaku's quality with Aguero's.

 

[el3mel]

He created 1 big chance and missed 4 big chances to be more precise, and indeed thats a fairly high number at this moment. Last year he created 9 big chances and missed 11. These stats tend to be fairly different depending on the year afaik, for example Aguerro missed 13* big chances last year afaik whereas Harry Kane missed 18 big chances and only created 5 big chances himself.

*edited

Aguero and Kane score far more goals to compensate for these missed chances.

 

[SupaFella]

You can't compare Lukaku to those 2 because they can both create their own chances that's why their percentage of missed chances is so big. Lukaku just can't do that

Again, Lukaku created 9 big chances last year and 7 assists for 11 big chances missed. Thats quite fair for a striker tbh.

Aguero and Kane score far more goals to compensate for these missed chances.

Well no, as i calculated above Aguerro and Kane arn't any more effecient in making the best out of what they are provided to them, rather they simply are being served better by their team. I think the statistics clearly sho that the crucial problem area is the relative low amount of big chances created by United as a team and i see that a number of posters here got that silver lining within the statistics that i posted.

Nothing to do with the point. It's about big chances missed. No one compared Lukaku's quality with Aguero's.

Is it really? Lukaku having missed 4 big chances by this time is a statistic oddity for him. In the current situation that United finds itself in those missed chances really get amplified. However if you extrapolate the amount of goals he should have if United was creating as many big chances as the other teams are by average then he should be on the top of the PL strikers list.

i must emphasise: Lukaku's statistic in missed chanceslooks more like an oddity compared to performance in previous years, the low amount of big chances created by United isn't in that it was low last year aswell.

Statisticly speaking imho the largest issue for United is it's defense (14 goals against by now is attrocious) then the low amount of big chances created by it's midfield and after that the attack where Lukaku won't even prove to be the worst performer i gather.

 

[LoneStar]

He's likely working out like a bodybuilder not an endurance athlete. Sports trainers discourage excessive muscles and would have him focus on core strength not muscles like his traps.

Yup, this looks to be true. Some people called him fat, which is ridiculous. But he should definitely lose some of that muscle, in favour of agility and nimbleness.

He’s put on way too much muscle and it’s not helping him in any way.

 

[El Jefe]

Again, Lukaku created 9 big chances last year and 7 assists for 11 big chances missed. Thats quite fair for a striker tbh.



Well no, as i calculated above Aguerro and Kane arn't any more effecient in making the best out of what they are provided to them, rather they simply are being served better by their team. I think the statistics clearly sho that the crucial problem area is the relative low amount of big chances created by United as a team and i see that a number of posters here got that silver lining within the statistics that i posted.



Is it really? Lukaku having missed 4 big chances by this time is a statistic oddity for him. In the current situation that United finds itself in those missed chances really get amplified. However if you extrapolate the amount of goals he should have if United was creating as many big chances as the other teams are by average then he should be on the top of the PL strikers list.

i must emphasise: Lukaku's statistic in missed chanceslooks more like an oddity compared to performance in previous years, the low amount of big chances created by United isn't in that it was low last year aswell.

Statisticly speaking imho the largest issue for United is it's defense (14 goals against by now is attrocious) then the low amount of big chances created by it's midfield and after that the attack where Lukaku won't even prove to be the worst performer i gather.

Looking at the game through the eyes of statistics alone is pointless.

Are you trying to paint a picture that Lukaku is no less of a finisher than Kane and Aguero?

 

[SupaFella]

Looking at the game through the eyes of statistics alone is pointless.

Personally i find it sad that i don't get a like from this community for my work of gathering and comparing those statistics. Now who the frack told you that you had to look at the game only trough the lens of statistics? I mean newsflash statistics don't say everything. On the other hand they can be informative and probably more so than the half-a-million cheap and hollow oppinion posts that will be made here on a monthly basis. You tell me what we should take as a better indication, could it be youre judgement?

Noone holds you to give youre view on it. Perhaps you should not feel threatened by another poster who brings forth an argument trough statistics?

 

[El Jefe]

Personally i find it sad that i don't get a like from this community for my work of gathering and comparing those statistics. Now who the frack told you that you had to look at the game only trough the lens of statistics? I mean newsflash statistics don't say everything. On the other hand they can be informative and probably more so than the half-a-million cheap and hollow oppinion posts that will be made here on a monthly basis. You tell me what we should take as a better indication, could it be youre judgement?

Noone holds you to give youre view on it. Perhaps you should not feel threatened by another poster who brings forth an argument trough statistics?

The reason why your statistics won't be celebrated is because you are comparing him to Kane and Aguero, this season might I add where Lukaku has been terrible. Most of us here have watched him clearly stink up the place this season, we really don't need your stats to tell us if he's been poor at finishing.

Don't get me wrong, stats are informative but will stats pick up moments vs Newcastle where he froze in the box and should have scored. Stats will also miss out where his heavy touch hinders him from getting his shot off or when he takes too long to get his feet sorted out.

Credit to you for the work done but in this thread so far you've compared him to Kane, Aguero, Hazard, Salah, Mane etc. I don't need stats to tell me all of these players are far better than him.

 

[el3mel]

Again, Lukaku created 9 big chances last year and 7 assists for 11 big chances missed. Thats quite fair for a striker tbh.



Well no, as i calculated above Aguerro and Kane arn't any more effecient in making the best out of what they are provided to them, rather they simply are being served better by their team. I think the statistics clearly sho that the crucial problem area is the relative low amount of big chances created by United as a team and i see that a number of posters here got that silver lining within the statistics that i posted.



Is it really? Lukaku having missed 4 big chances by this time is a statistic oddity for him. In the current situation that United finds itself in those missed chances really get amplified. However if you extrapolate the amount of goals he should have if United was creating as many big chances as the other teams are by average then he should be on the top of the PL strikers list.

i must emphasise: Lukaku's statistic in missed chanceslooks more like an oddity compared to performance in previous years, the low amount of big chances created by United isn't in that it was low last year aswell.

Statisticly speaking imho the largest issue for United is it's defense (14 goals against by now is attrocious) then the low amount of big chances created by it's midfield and after that the attack where Lukaku won't even prove to be the worst performer i gather.

Again the service excuse. Lukaku isn't served well because his movement is rubbish, way too static and his close control in tight situation is non existent. Almost impossible to create much for a striker like that. Aguero and Kane have insane positioning and movement in final third and their control is excellent. Lukaku is just clumsy. Service for Lukaku seems to mean for some here taps in and 1vs1. For Kane, Aguero or any top striker this is differnt.

 

[SupaFella]

The reason why your statistics won't be celebrated is because you are comparing him to Kane and Aguero

Wut? I compare him to other top srikers in the league, i think it's bloody normal to compare strikers to strikers.

Don't get me wrong, stats are informative but will stats pick up moments vs Newcastle where he froze in the box and should have scored. Stats will also miss out where his heavy touch hinders him from getting his shot off or when he takes too long to get his feet sorted out.

Yes, the stats do reflect that he has missed a lot of big chances already this year, as i also mentioned.

Credit to you for the work done but in this thread so far you've compared him to Kane, Aguero, Hazard, Salah, Mane etc. I don't need stats to tell me all of these players are far better than him.

Again, i think that it's only reasonable to compare strikers to strikers when doing these statistics. Makes more sense than comparing him to midfielders or even goalkeepers afterall.

Again the service excuse. Lukaku isn't served well because his movement is rubbish, way too static and his close control in tight situation is non existent. Almost impossible to create much for a striker like that. Aguero and Kane have insane positioning and movement in final third and their control is excellent. Lukaku is just clumsy. Service for Lukaku seems to mean for some here taps in and 1vs1. For Kane, Aguero or any top striker this is differnt.

look it's not because i post statistics that you need to step of youre "lukaku is shit narrative", you don't need to quote me to do that if youre not going to talk about the statistics anyway.

 

[el3mel]

look it's not because i post statistics that you need to step of youre "lukaku is shit narrative", you don't need to quote me to do that if youre not going to talk about the statistics anyway.

Stats won't tell us what his movement and close control in tight situations are. These things we watch with our eyes.

This isn't NBA to evaluate everything a player has with numbers.

 

[SupaFella]

Stats won't tell us what his movement and close control in tight situations are. These things we watch with our eyes.

And?

It's not because stats dont tell you everything that they mean nothing. In fact i'm starting to suspect that a number of posters are far too lazy to ever back their oppinions up with anything that they practicly take offense to stats since it might push them to put more work in their arguments.

Feel free to give youre oppinion based on observations, but i don't see why it would be any argument against statistics in so far that people are free how to interpret them in the information they can provide.

I'm not going to bloody continue an argument on this thread over the merrit of statistics. This is not the topic eitherway. Youre free to ignore them and post youre own oppinion.

 

[el3mel]

And?

It's not because stats tell you everything that they mean nothing. In fact i'm starting to suspect that a number of posters are far too lazy to ever back their oppinions up with anything that they practicly take offense to stats since it might push them to put more work in their arguments.

Feel free to give youre oppinion based on observations, but i don't see why it would be any argument against statistics in so far that people are free how to interpret them in the information they can provide.

I'm not going to bloody continue an argument on this thread over the merrit of statistics. This is not the topic eitherway. Youre free to ignore them and post youre own oppinion or to give even another reflection on it but starting a discussion on the merrits of statistics is unfitting imho.

We're not ignoring stats. We're saying that the striker needs to have certain abilities to help himself get better served on the pitch, abilities you only evaluate based on watching. Movement in final third, poaitioning in the box, abilitiy to run behind defenders, close control while pressured, fast 1-2 passing to create space ..etc. Stats won't tell you anything about this, and we all see with our eyes that Lukaku is too static and very clumsy with the ball which makes service for him difficult. Aguero and Kane get loads of chances because they know how and where to move, and their control on the ball is better.

You want to completely depend on stats and ignore everything else like its NBA. I myself don't say stats are useless, but football has more into it than stats, and there're things that affect stats you need to evaluate with your eyes. You want o depend on stats completely and say that Lukaku's only problem is that he's not getting much taps in and 1vs1, well it's up to you.

 

[SupaFella]

You want to completely depend on stats and ignore everything else like its NBA.

No i'm not, show me where my posts would argue that statistics are the end all of it. And i quote myself:

Personally i find it sad that i don't get a like from this community for my work of gathering and comparing those statistics. Now who the frack told you that you had to look at the game only trough the lens of statistics? I mean newsflash statistics don't say everything. On the other hand they can be informative and probably more so than the half-a-million cheap and hollow oppinion posts that will be made here on a monthly basis. You tell me what we should take as a better indication, could it be youre judgement?

The only difference is that arguments made "from the eyes of the beholder" usually need support from several people to actually be reasonably confirmed, whereas stats offer a objevtive indication but with limitations.

What i do find rather grating is that Lukaku pretty much receives one of the lowest scores for performances in the team whereas to me it seems far more obvious that especially the defense and then the midfield is more the issue.

 

[kouroux]

Personally i find it sad that i don't get a like from this community for my work of gathering and comparing those statistics. Now who the frack told you that you had to look at the game only trough the lens of statistics? I mean newsflash statistics don't say everything. On the other hand they can be informative and probably more so than the half-a-million cheap and hollow oppinion posts that will be made here on a monthly basis. You tell me what we should take as a better indication, could it be youre judgement?

Noone holds you to give youre view on it. Perhaps you should not feel threatened by another poster who brings forth an argument trough statistics?

"sad that you won't get a like "? Are you for real ?

 

[el3mel]

No i'm not, show me where my posts would argue that statistics are the end all of it. And i quote myself:



The only difference is that arguments made "from the eyes of the beholder" usually need support from several people to actually be reasonably confirmed, whereas stats offer a objevtive indication but with limitations.

What i do find rather grating is that Lukaku pretty much receives one of the lowest scores for performances in the team whereas to me it seems far more obvious that especially the defense and then the midfield is more the issue.

Which is the truth I mean ? Most here in this thread sees the same thing and same problem with his movement and first touch whatever their opinion on the manager or other players. That's not just one personal opinion.

Stats don't provide much objective indication though, because as I said in football there're things that happen on the pitch and can't be recorded while having direct effect on the stats calculated. You can't ignore these things and say they are only observation dependent when everyone see them, not just one or 2.

Why shouldn't he recieve low score when his performance is rubbish ? How is that related to the other players peformance ? You act like they're not getting much slaughtering in their threads as well.

 

[SupaFella]

"sad that you won't get a like "? Are you for real ?

Yup. i don't feel that not getting a like motivates me further to put some effort and research in forming a well constructed argument.

Which is the truth I mean ? Most here in this thread sees the same thing and same problem with his movement and first touch whatever their opinion on the manager or other players. That's not just one personal opinion.

And then thats likely fair, it's not like i argued against it anyway, rather i was arguing against a too easy dismissal of stats.

Stats don't provide much objective indication though, because as I said in football there're things that happen on the pitch and can'tbe recorded while having direct effect on the stats calculated. You can't ignore these things and say they are only observation dependent when everyone see them, not just one or 2.

Again i didn't say that they mean everything, but i would also argue against the sentiment brought forward here that they mean practicly nothing.

Why shouldn't he recieve low score when his performance is rubbish ? How is that related to the other players peformance ?

Statisticly speaking the United defense is the real issue for the low ranking this season as letting in 14 goals in 8 matches is way above the average for top teams. Yet all the defenders receive better scores than Lukaku anyway even if statisticly Lukaku proves to be a relative effecient striker for the chances that seem provided to him. While stats are not anything i don't understand why the defense is saved so much more than the striker.

 

[kouroux]

Yup. i don't feel that not getting a like motivates me further to put some effort and research in forming a well constructed argument.

It makes you look thirsty and desperate but whatever floats your boat.

 

[el3mel]

Yup. i don't feel that not getting a like motivates me further to put some effort and research in forming a well constructed argument.



And then thats likely fair, it's not like i argued against it anyway, rather i was arguing against a too easy dismissal of stats.



Again i didn't say that they mean everything, but i would also argue against the sentiment brought forward here that they mean practicly nothing.

I didn't say that at all, but the kind of sport indicates how importance the stats are, and football is more complicated than to be summed in numbers, unlike Basketball in which numbers are everything for example.

 

[SupaFella]

It makes you look thirsty and desperate but whatever floats your boat.

When a forum thinks that it needs to restrict poster access depending on the amount of likes they get even over a long period then i do feel that it's sad if that system would not promote more substantiated posts. It feels like there is no use to try to build a quality argument here that would take an hour of research. I presume that otoh there are plenty of smaller social networks here that simply grant full access to eachother purely on basis of association.

Hence i won't be posting with statistics no more. Simple purely oppinionated one liners should do fine.

I didn't say that at all, but the kind of sport indicates how importance the stats are, and football is more complicated than to be summed in numbers

Other posters gave more that impression than you to be fair. I agree to some extend, but i don't think it should serve as a motivation to keep away from researching stats and trying to interpret them correctly over having so much more oppinionated posts, just imho.

 

[Sayros]

I don't know how to give likes, but I would give one to that fella just so he can shut up about his likes.

 

[kouroux]

When a forum thinks that it needs to restrict poster access depending on the amount of likes they get even over a long period then i do feel that it's sad if that system would not promote more substantiated posts. It feels like there is no use to try to build a quality argument here that would take an hour of research. I presume that otoh there are plenty of smaller social networks here that simply grant full access to eachother purely on basis of association

It's not up to you to judge yourself as better than the others and desperately ask for likes.
That's a very attention seeking mindset that makes it even harder to give you likes.

If you wanna increase your chances, the first you need to do is stop trying too hard, seriously it's a little weird.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

Was thinking about it the other day, the increased muscle hes added. He used to be lean, nimble and dynamic. Even his strike of the ball was more decisive


Much more tugboat then speedboat now

He still has a good straight line speed, he just lacks the tactical intelligence to make smart runs.

 

[SupaFella]

That's a very attention seeking mindset that makes it even harder to give you likes.

I don't give a toss about attention. This is not about my own sense of worth. It's simply about being not limited anymore by a 10 post limit that i have to endure for months already. Many times by noon i cannot follow up anymore on discussions i'm engaged in because of the post limit. I have 1 post remaining after this one, so make it a good one if you expect a reply of me today.

I can understand the system if it limits shitposting and if it is there to stimulate more informed discussion.

And i'm not going to discuss this matter futher neither. It's also not on topic and in principle it's a matter for the admins and mods to set the rules. What i'm really hoping for is a community that would better recognise well substantiated arguments above gratuitious oppinions.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Looking at the game through the eyes of statistics alone is pointless.

Are you trying to paint a picture that Lukaku is no less of a finisher than Kane and Aguero?

Completely agree. It’s the joy of football, opinions are different. But I really don’t see the point in comparing Lukuku to Aguero and Kane - the latter two are on a different planet to Lukuku, no one needs statistics to know that.

Stats won't tell us what his movement and close control in tight situations are. These things we watch with our eyes.

This isn't NBA to evaluate everything a player has with numbers.

Go down this route and you sap the joy out of football - you end up doing an hour of research on ‘big chances’. Too much Football Manager has led to this. It’s like Moyes telling a title winning team that they need to run more when you have just won the league by 11 points.

 

[kouroux]

I don't give a toss about attention. This is not about my own sense of worth. It's simply about being not limited anymore by a 10 post limit that i have to endure for months already. Many times by noon i cannot follow up anymore on discussions i'm engaged in because of the post limit. I have 1 post remaining after this one, so make it a good one if you expect a reply of me today.

I can understand the system if it limits shitposting and is there to stimulate more informed discussion.

Again it is not up to you to judge the quality of your posts or other members'. There are people for that and their job isn't easy.
Most were patient for it and didn't basically cry for it. The system isn't perfect(nothing is) but it still does a solid job.

 

[RedSky]

In fact i'm starting to suspect that a number of posters are far too lazy to ever back their opinions up with anything that they practically take offense to stats since it might push them to put more work in their arguments.

This happens on Redcafe all the time unfortunately. If you expect well reasoned debate then the Football Forum isn't the best place to find it these days. It's normally full of extremes.