If we are not trying to excuse them, then we should leave the meta thinking to after the war, or the other 'Wataboutwhatever" thread.
Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion
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If we are not trying to excuse them, then we should leave the meta thinking to after the war, or the other 'Wataboutwhatever" thread.
I addressed all of this in a previous comment. Don't mean this to sound snippy, just that I addressed these points earlier.
Its not an excuse. Its just my understanding of why Russia wanted to invade. I didnt say it was morally correct and defended Russian blatant aggression.
And yes NATO needs to back off. No superpower will like their sphere of influence reduced. US has historically reacted like that so Russia response is very much in line with that.
As far as Ukraine is concerned, i couldn’t care less (in normal time) so my observation is not based on emotion. Both NATO and Russia are responsible for this and Russia should not have invaded and is much larger guilty party. But it was put in a very difficult position with NATO expanding eastward. There are no black and white answer here.
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Nothing new in that. They violate or threaten to violate UK airspace on a regular basis. And have done for many years.
We send our fighter jet up to so called escort them away, eventually.
It is just a game for them to continually test reaction times.
Sweden had the highly capable JAS Gripen fighter jet. So I am sure they are more than capable of maintaining Swedish airspace.
Honestly don’t know what their goal is anymore. Are they actually trying to start war vs NATO already or just acting tough?
Jesus you're really a pain in the ass in every topic, aren't you?
I second that
Agree with this...there is definitely room to care about all the bad stuff in the world. I just don't feel that a thread talking about this specific conflict and the loss of life associated with it is the right one. But that's just my take.
I suspect they'd suffer more in an all out war between Russia and the West which would be one of the main alternatives to economic sanctions.
No, disagree. Some of the incidents that have been raised are 100% related to this conflict and should be discussed as so. The treatment of non-white foreign nationals for one, the foreign fighters joining the Ukrainian resistance etc.
I just didn’t like how you somehow twisted his opinion, whether you find it relevant or not, to somehow make it out that he was trying to take “advantage” of this situation to make a point and push and agenda and how you labelled it as shameful. I think that’s incredibly dismissive and disrespectful if I’m honest. I’m all fine with you saying it’s not on the topic of this Ukraine situation (although I disagree to some extent - because we are talking about foreign fighters going abroad to fight, which is directly relevant to what’s happening), was just unnecessary (in my view) to take that swipe at the end.
I think this has to do with controlling their own population and protect Putins regime, more than wanting a world war.
This is the guy you are agreeing with.
Yeah I reckon the end game for this might actually be Russia ending up completely isolated with their population largely hating the West, except for the lucky ones who are able to escape. Whatever happens in Ukraine for the rest of war they will spin it regardless.
Admittedly, I didn’t go that far back.
Sure. But there's also comparisons to Kashmir, Palestine, Yemen, Muslims, Christians..etc etc etc
There's another time/thread for that.
The truth is that this is a bigger problem for Europe because it is in Europe. All wars are bad, but some are worse for others.
Why can't people discuss what they want, when they want? I really don't get this view.. It's like a skewed twisted version of something which was once liberal.
Yes there’s a separate thread for that discussion in detail, but it’s usually raised after people notice the double standards in reporting, and the treatment of non-white foreign nationals etc.
NATO is not expanding east. Free and democratic countries are choosing to apply, note that word, apply to join NATO. As well as applying to j the EU in many cases. So why is Putin not choosing to attack the EU. Answer. He knows what the outcome would be. And instead, has chosen to invade Ukraine because he believes it is an easier target. It is typical bullying tactics by someone who so obviously feels completely insecure.
They can, there's a separate thread for it! I read it too and agree with some of it.
I do think it's out of order to use an ongoing humanitarian crisis as a springboard to discuss something else that's not directly relevant in that specific thread, as I think it draws attention away from the central issue. Which is, when all is said and done, killing and destruction on a massive scale. Maybe shameful was a little strong, but I do think it's out of order. The poster in question agreed it's one for another thread, though, and I also said that I wasn't trying to minimize the significance of some of the double standards in reporting etc.
Is he struggling to remember what they've been saying in the past. They've been threatening with nuclear weapons since they started the invasion and now he's going on about how it's the west talking about nuclear war.
I been a pos to assholes in this thread. Anyone I have assaulted has deserved it. I don't give a shit anymore. Redcafe is a terrible place nowadays. The fact that you were best newbie promoted is a testament to it. The mods let anyone spread any lies and anti-vax bs and conspiracy theories as much as possible. They let hansifickmich troll the United forum. They let Russian trolls spread their bs, heck one of the mods is a russian troll pos.
There is nothing good about redcafe anymore after SteveJ and Olly have left and Hectic taking a break, mockney or brwned not writing much. I don't give a shit if I am banned. If I see an asshole in this thread I will call them out if I want to.
I read that Lavrov allegedly tried to resign in the past but was refused. If true, maybe it'd be interesting to get him to defect. Probably too optimistic, mind.
The way his war in Ukraine goes and considering that the economy is already tumbling, I doubt he could pull that off even if he wanted to. They can't even get the logistics in Ukraine right.
I'm not an expert by any means but so far this war hasn't left the impression that Europe has to be afraid of a conventional attack by Russia. It's the nuclear threat that's frightening but if it comes to this, all is lost anyway.
I think Putin has already bitten off more than he can chew and we just have to watch how he chokes on it. And in the end not back Russia too much into a corner so that they still have too much to lose to do anything stupid.
Is he struggling to remember what they've been saying in the past. They've been threatening with nuclear weapons since they started the invasion and now he's going on about how it's the west talking about nuclear war.
They are not even trying to have a coherent communication. It'd be pretty cartoonish if it wasn't so real.
Most likely propoganda, he doesn't really seem like he'd be resigning over this does he. Foreign secretaries world over tend to be absent any ethics, they're more than happy to spin and lie.
Europe isn’t only full of Europeans and those Europeans aren’t all the same race or religion. I also think that some peoples personal feelings and trauma has been amplified by this conflict and it is wrong to dismiss that. You kind of allude to that in your last line also, not only worse, but different. I don’t think it is your or my place to tell people who have been directly or indirectly impacted by this conflict or others when is the right time to share concern or emotion especially when nobody is dismissing what is currently happening in Ukraine where I think we are all in full agreeance that it is nothing short of vile and heartbreaking.
Your post literally excused Putin's actions and placed the blame for the conflict at NATO's door.
To my mind 'not caring less' about a country does not imply objectivity either so I'm not really sure where you're going there.
How should NATO back off and how would it end the conflict peacefully while ensuring Ukrainian sovereignty remains intact?
There are plenty of posts in here which are not directly about this conflict. Not to mention, if your concern was drawing discussion away from the most pertinent matter, then the best course of action would have been to ignore it. But you didn’t and here we are.
Anyway, I’m done with this discussion. It’s clear you’re entrenched in your view / whatever underlying belief you have that’s clearly driving your entrenchment. And, your one point I do agree with, it’s not on topic.
Of course it's a major event given the current situation. But Russian planes violate the Swedish airspace about 10-15 times per year. Most of the times it's due to bad navigation.
We're not really just sharing emotion though. There's too much going around in confusing logic circles for it to be pure emotion. It's confounds everything, especially when I'm looking for updates and tweets about the situation in Ukraine.
IMO there is a need to recognise things the West could/should/must do better, but not while the bombs are being dropped. If the time must be now, there's a separate thread for it.
Tagline checks out. Have a nice day.
You're a pos
We never found one last time we were home. Better than the states mind. Australia is also only second to Italy in coffe quality I'd say so we are spoilt. Doubly so as we now live in and around Leichardt which is Australia's Little Italy.
Agreed.
Very frustrating at times, especially on serious topics like Ukraine, Covid, etc (where some of the posts/posters are unbelievable shite). Use “ignore“, walk away/get a drink… helps a bit. And remember there are a lot of good posters too?
