Ruthless Strategy - 10 out, 10 in.

[spaceboyRSA]

Cant help but feel the De Gea Out comments are a little knee jerk. Sure he hasnt been as good as normal, but he is still one of the best in the world. The contract situation maybe isnt ideal, but he still comes across as professional about things?

The other nine can all climb a two storey stepladder, and when they get to the top, just take a step to the left.

 

[IrishRedDevil]

Bit of a knee jerk thread. When was the last time a top club signed 10 players, let alone dismiss 10 in the process?

What did people expect yesterday, to beat Barca at Nou Camp?

They've brought in Vidal and Dembele and had Umtiti and Malcom on the bench.. We're very far off that level and in retrospect lucky to even take part in the QF's.

It’s not just last night, we are 6th in the table and in a fight to play CL football next year. Yes Jose is to blame for a large portion of that, but the trend will continue if there isn’t an overhaul. I doubt it will happen but its a telling sign that we can list 10 players and not care if they are gone.

How many players did Pep shift in his first two windows at City? I know it was a lot.

 

[Enigma_87]

It’s not the fact that we were beaten by a squad way better than ours,it’s because of the way we were beaten that people are so pissed. Many of our players don’t seem like they give a damn. We still have players like Ashley Young and Lingard McTominay in our starting 11,who won’t even make the Barca reserves. Not to mention most of our players earn more than world class players in their position
It maybe a knee jerk thread but this is what we need to do, build from the base up, sell everyone who is not interested or good enough. We have the money and pull, not as much as we used to but if this trend continues, we will find it extremely hard to find any quality player

I'm not saying otherwise but you got regularly inferior players punching above their weight. The problem is that we consistently pick square pegs for round holes and 10 more aren't going to solve this issue. We paid 50m for Fred, let that sink in...

Our scouting staff is much to blame as to the players that are stinking up the place right now.

 

[Enigma_87]

It’s not just last night, we are 6th in the table and in a fight to play CL football next year. Yes Jose is to blame for a large portion of that, but the trend will continue if there isn’t an overhaul. I doubt it will happen but its a telling sign that we can list 10 players and not care if they are gone.

How many players did Pep shift in his first two windows at City? I know it was a lot.

We actually improved a lot since December in the league. Top 4 was a long shot couple of months ago.

Pep sold 4 in his first season, brought in 6 (and 2 youngsters).

Brought in 6 next year (1 in January), and true released or sold next to nothing a lot, but he inherited a big squad. Ours isn't all that in this respect.

 

[sp_107]

The thought of getting rid of 10 players is more exciting than the thought of buying 10 new players

This explains our current state of the club
So many average players milking money.

I think it's difficult to replace 10 in same window

Alexis/Mata/Matic/AV/Darmian/Rojo/Jones/Young/ these 8 must go if we have any ambitions and sign atleast 5 top players in summer

In next window we can look at Eric/Lingard/Lukaku/Pogba/Fred

When majority thinks we can ship out 10-13 players then that club is in a serious mess

I never believed in wholesale changes but for once we need to do things like how Pep did at city

Problem is can we get 10 other quality players? Even they are available do they choose UTD at this moment over other elite clubs

 

[Rednotdead]

It's quite a sobering fact that 3 of last night's back 4 played against Basle in 2011.

A rebuild of the extent we need will take 4 or 5 years.

 

[ROFLUTION]

Completely unrealistic idea and thread. How will you:

a) Find 10 available players on the market of the desired World class level

b) How would we have money like that to spend?

 

[12OunceEpilogue]

The thought of getting rid of 10 players is more exciting than the thought of buying 10 new players

Rob Ajax. As many as we can get. No way do 10 go in and out though never going to happen.

Kidnap? I like it.

I don't think 8 out is looking out of the question any more, we should still look to keep DDG in my view but his form this season has done him no favours. Lots of the otehrs can go.

 

[Hernandez - BFA]

Dare i say it, we need to become "american" in how we ship out players. A 30 million signing not working after 2 seasons? fine, cya later, we'll sell you for 6 million to leeds or norwich etc etc.

We don't need to renew their contracts for transfer "safety", we need to amputate the gangrene before we get septic shock.

This.

 

[TMDaines]

Bringing 10 players in and taking 10 out won’t help. There would be a lot of wasted effort there, replacing like for like. Fellaini went, another four or five should join him, then bring three elite players in for RB, DM, RM/W. Quality not quantity should be the philosophy this summer.

 

[AlwaysRed66]

It just shows for all his faults Mourinho wasn't wrong about some of these players, & fans have only realised this since he has gone.

 

[MAME DIOUF 32]

It will be 3 or 4 in and about the same out. These massive clearouts never happen.

Most of the starting XI next season will be the same players.

This is and should be treated as a special case. We have crap leftovers from FOUR managers still kicking around.

 

[OneLoveMUFC]

At 29 years old, for the first time I can remember, I wouldn’t lose a minutes sleep if any of this squad left. I think that’s a damning indictment as to where we are today.

It’s going to take years to sort this mess out. We will know if the current owners are ready for that task and the first thing they must surely do is hire a DOF before they sign any players.

 

[WPMUFC]

Bringing 10 players in and taking 10 out won’t help. There would be a lot of wasted effort there, replacing like for like. Fellaini went, another four or five should join him, then bring three elite players in for RB, DM, RM/W. Quality not quantity should be the philosophy this summer.

i don't think the plan would be to replace 10 players with just random players. I think the idea would be: our squad is so full of mediocre players (10 players), you bite the bullet and sell them any way you could, even if you pay wages or recoup 5-6 million for them. You then set out 10 players that are improvements over those players and buy them.

Look, i agree the thread is likely on the fringes of hyperbole, 10 players in 1 window won't happen. But it should.

The idea that at least 10 players need replacing for better players, or to replace those leaving on a free, is a legitimate argument.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

The thought of getting rid of 10 players is more exciting than the thought of buying 10 new players

State of our club these days!

 

[TMDaines]

i don't think the plan would be to replace 10 players with just random players. I think the idea would be: our squad is so full of mediocre players (10 players), you bite the bullet and sell them any way you could, even if you pay wages or recoup 5-6 million for them. You then set out 10 players that are improvements over those players and buy them.

Look, i agree the thread is likely on the fringes of hyperbole, 10 players in 1 window won't happen. But it should.

The idea that at least 10 players need replacing for better players, or to replace those leaving on a free, is a legitimate argument.

Deals for top players take a lot of effort. Managing 15 (10 in, 5 out whilst in contract) sounds like Liam Fox with Brexit claiming it will be easy to get all the trade deals done in time. I don’t think we have the resource to do that level of business in a timely fashion.

 

[WPMUFC]

Deals for top players take a lot of effort. Managing 15 (10 in, 5 out whilst in contract) sounds like Liam Fox with Brexit claiming it will be easy to get all the trade deals done in time. I don’t think we have the resource to do that level of business in a timely fashion.

which is why it won't happen in a window. However, not all of our deals will be "galactico" signings. We would probably have much more success with the likes of signing wan-bissaka and Alerweirald as an improvement player than trying to sign varane. Also, i think with the amount of turn over we need, top player signings will be dangerous. Blowing 100 million on Varane (as an example) may fix CB, but then we limit our RB signings.

It's a balancing game, and hence why i agree with the sentiment of 10 in and 10 out, but can obviously see it's not happening in one window.

 

[Twingatz]

For me, we need to trim this team down considerably before even thinking of adding players in the summer. We currently field too many players that are a) not good enough b) don't fit the direction and/or style we want to play c) possess the wrong attitude. Unfortunately a ton of players currently fall under these parameters.

Out:

David De Gea: increasingly more and more mistakes and his favorite amigos will be moving on. Can't see how he realistically remains happy. Also he is crap with his distribution. I don't feel like we can replace his shot-stopping ability because I think he's the best in the world for that, but I do believe we can improve in acquiring an overall better GK arguably in Oblak

Ashley Young: no explanation needed

Matteo Darmian: do we actually even know his whereabouts at the moment?

Phil Jones: for me, him along with Ashley Young are the first names on the list that must go. He is synonymous with the joke of a club we've become

Marcos Rojo: not good enough

Eric Bailly: pains me to say this because he showed a lot of promise but I fear he's not consistent enough and gets injured way too much

Paul Pogba: the English media will never warm to him. Our fanbase will never collectively warm to him. He's entering him prime years while we might be going into another Europa League season. Real Madrid want him. He wants Real Madrid. His heart isn't all the way in it. Get rid and use the funds to balance out the squad with the RIGHT signings much in the same vein as Liverpool did with the Suarez and Coutinho sales

Nemanja Matic: no longer fits the profile of player we should still be harboring at this club. Not good enough and old

Ander Herrera: appreciate his heart and desire, but feel like we can acquire more quality at his position. He isn't a regular Spanish international and wouldn't start for any other top club in the world. Not good enough

Alexis Sanchez: his contract has added to the turmoil and his play doesn't warrant the wages. Must get rid by any means necessary

Anthony Martial: for me he doesn't possess the right attitude and fight. Talented player on his day, which is consistently too inconsistent. Another player who we think is world class potential, but wouldn't walk into any other of the top teams. Not even sure if he's amongst France's best option at the LW. He may be comfortably 4th or 5th best there too

Romelu Lukaku: not good enough. Not even close. Lukaku is the type of player whose ceiling appears to be an 8/10 at best and he most usually will put up a 6/10 or worse. Not good enough

Jesse Lingard: not even sure if he's good enough to be a squad player. Teams like City bring players like Bernardo and Sane off the bench. We bring on Jesse Lingard who I can't confidently say would still be here had he not been English and an academy player

Juan Mata: no longer fits our playing style or the demands of the fast-paced Premier League

People talk about a rebuild but who are we going to replace these people with?

This ain't gonna happen over 2 windows, nonetheless 1.

 

[Von Mistelroum]

Honestly, most of our best players are hugely overrated. Rashford is hit and miss at best, and Martial never lived up to the early promise.

 

[trafford1980]

I agree with a mass cull.

To be perfectly honest, I really couldn't make an inarguable case to keep anyone atm.

However, considering no football club EVER goes for an almost complete overhaul of their first-team squad within a single window, I'll try and keep it somewhat believable.

I haven't bothered speculating on goalkeepers.

Keep - Dalot, Shaw, Young, Lindelof, Smalling, Jones, Matic, McTominay, Fred, Lingard, Lukaku, Martial, Rashford.

Sell - Rojo, Bailly, Valencia, Darmian, Perreira, Herrera, Pogba, Mata, Sanchez.

In - Tuanzebe, Garner, Gomes, Greenwood, Centre-back, Right-back, 2 x Centre-Mid, Right-sided winger/forward.

Basically, I think we'll get rid of 8-9 players, buy 5-6 and then promote a couple from within.

 

[IrishRedDevil]

Completely unrealistic idea and thread. How will you:

a) Find 10 available players on the market of the desired World class level

b) How would we have money like that to spend?

They don't all have to be World Class. Literally anyone would be better than Young. Its about getting deadwood out the door and replacing them with hungry players with a clear playing style/identity in mind.

Part of the 10 incoming players can be made up of youth joining the squad such as Tuanzebe to replace Rojo.

Last summer, our net spend was only £51.6m (spent £70.9m, received £19.3m). Surely there is over £200m to spend this summer.

 

[RussellWilson]

I'd cash in on Pogba and use it to rebuild. He's not the player to build this team around.

 

[IrishRedDevil]

Since Summer 2016

United: Bought 11, sold 7
City: Bought 19, sold 14
Liverpool: Bought 14, sold 13
Chelsea: Bought 15, sold 12
Spurs: Bought 10, sold 8
Arsenal: Bought 15, sold 7


This stat tells me that a lot of deadwood is kept at the club and handed new contracts when they should be shown the door. City, Liverpool and Chelsea have been much more ruthless in the last 3 years with their outgoing players.

 

[theyneverlearn]

I don't think Ole got the job by telling Ed he wants to offload half the squad and replace.

He got it because he was able to show what he can do with the existing players. He would have asked for a couple signings but mostly to replace any outs and promote youth.

 

[IrishRedDevil]

We actually improved a lot since December in the league. Top 4 was a long shot couple of months ago.

Pep sold 4 in his first season, brought in 6 (and 2 youngsters).

Brought in 6 next year (1 in January), and true released or sold next to nothing a lot, but he inherited a big squad. Ours isn't all that in this respect.

Pep has bought 19 players and sold 14. In the same period, United have bought 11 and sold 7.
City selling double the players says it all for me - they kicked players out the door that aren't good enough.

 

[breakout67]

Pep has bought 19 players and sold 14. In the same period, United have bought 11 and sold 7.
City selling double the players says it all for me - they kicked players out the door that aren't good enough.

A lot cheaper to extend the deadwood that buy proper players. Unfortunately that means we've slid into mediocrity.

 

[OneLoveMUFC]

Pep has bought 19 players and sold 14. In the same period, United have bought 11 and sold 7.
City selling double the players says it all for me - they kicked players out the door that aren't good enough.

It wouldn't surprise me if they sold Mendy, Danilo and Ottamendi and bring in three upgrades this summer. Watch the difference between us and them when it comes to Aguero, D Silva and Fernandinho. They will have already identified who they want already which will mean their mini transition passes without a second glance.

 

[WPMUFC]

Since Summer 2016

United: Bought 11, sold 7
City: Bought 19, sold 14
Liverpool: Bought 14, sold 13
Chelsea: Bought 15, sold 12
Spurs: Bought 10, sold 8
Arsenal: Bought 15, sold 7


This stat tells me that a lot of deadwood is kept at the club and handed new contracts when they should be shown the door. City, Liverpool and Chelsea have been much more ruthless in the last 3 years with their outgoing players.

We gave ashley young a contract in FEB, we gave smalling a contract in 2018 till 2022. It baffles me how woodward assumes transfer value is tied to contract length if the player is awful. If the player is awful, transfer value tanks and contract length (at high wages) only exacerbates the problem of offloading. I have no idea where he's got this idea from.

As i said earlier, we need to become "american" in how we view players. If they are garbage players, you take massive losses, but try to learn from mistakes. You don't try and use contracts as insurance policies.

 

[El Jefe]

In any underperforming business, to put an end to complacency, rot needs to be cut out. Ruthless changes are needed with no empathy. United needs to operate in the same manner this summer.

I feel that 3/4 new signings would be like putting a sticky plaster on a broken leg. A complete overhaul is needed. It will take time for the new team to gel, but surely that would be better than watching the current lot plod about the pitch.


Young - kicked out the door, contract terminated, locked away in a dark room. Whatever it takes to get him out.

Jones - please go away. He’s been here far too long.

Herrera - his head was turned by money offered by PSG, so good riddance.

Mata - released to any takers. Take his contract offer off the table.

Sanchez - offload him if possible. May need to subsidise his wages. Fingers crossed China can help us out.

Lingard - isn’t good enough for United, I don’t care if he’s an academy product. Man United players need to be able to score and assist goals.

Darmian - I don’t think anyone knows where he is anyway, so just keep ignoring him and hope he goes away.

Valencia - thankfully halfway out the door anyway. Shins around the country will no longer get bruised.

Rojo - bye. Rojo is not red.

De Gea - I never thought I would ever say this but if he really wants to go, sell him. Go and pay Oblak’s release clause. The 3 amigos out the door in one summer?


That’s 10 outgoing players that will need to be replaced with 8/9/10 new players. If this isn’t done, average players will remain at the club. Anything else will be a half-job.

Who am I missing?

I actually agree with you.

We can get rid of 10 players but we can't bring in 8 or 9. I'd like to bring in 6 and promote the rest from within. We've seen from the inclusion of Mctominay how valuable hungry academy products can be and we happen to have a talented bunch of youngsters.

 

[w1thout]

Realistic departures (7):
Valencia
Darmian
Rojo
Bailly
Mata
Herrera
Sanchez

Can't see anyone else departing this summer, as Young and Jones just had their contracts extended, and Ole seems to really like Lingard for some reason.
Maybe Pogba, De Gea or Pereira will leave if they push for a move.

We will be in need of a good CB, first choice RB, second choice LB as we have no one but Young to cover for Shaw.
For midfield we will likely need a CDM to ease Matic out, a CM to replace the departing Herrera, a first choice RW and a versatile forward to cover for the departing Mata and Sanchez.
Most likely 4 first team players and 3 squad players.

We've done massive summers like this twice before under Van Gaal, with 6 players coming in. Not out of reach if we do make some shrewd buisness.

 

[Green_Red]

Out:

Mata
Herrera
Smalling
Rojo
Darmian
Young
Valencia
McTominay
Bailly
Lingard

In:

Rabiot
Sancho
Fernandes
Meunier
Maguire
(Tuanzebe)

Mata - barely gets a game
Herrera - would need to be replaced
Smalling - would need a replacement
Rojo - doesn't play
Darmian - doesn't play
Young - needs to be replaced
Valencia - doesn't play
McTominay - you're off your head
Bailly - doesn't play
Lingard - would need to be replaced

I wonder who would have been on the chopping block for some of you when we got smashed 4-0 in the Nou Camp in the early 90s, or when we got smashed 6-1 by City?

Such a knee jerk thread. We need to move the deadwood on but most of the players people are listing aren't regular starters so how does it solve anything?

We need 4 players that instantly improve our starting XI. Defender x 2, Midfielder and a Winger. That's it.

 

[Infra-red]

I don't think Ole got the job by telling Ed he wants to offload half the squad and replace.

He got it because he was able to show what he can do with the existing players. He would have asked for a couple signings but mostly to replace any outs and promote youth.

Indeed. Plus he has just landed his dream job, a job he must have assumed he was never going to get near to - do people really think he is going to come in and immediately turn the place upside down.

After Mourinho and his incessant demands, I expect Woodward just wanted someone nice and quiet and cheap, who will do as they're told.

 

[SparkedIntoLife]

Totally unrealistic but I’ll play -
Darmian: Laird
Valencia: Meunier
Bailly: De Ligt
Rojo: Tuanzebe
Young: Chilwell
Matic: Rodri
Pogba (yes, really): Aouar
Pereira: Hudson-Odoi
Sanchez: Sancho
Mata: Greenwood

 

[dangler]

Sounds like a porn title.

I would watch that.

 

[Zlatattack]

Priority 1

Out
Sanchez - waste of time and money, disgrace to the shirt.
Darmian - never good enough
Valencia - done
Young - done
Rojo - not good enough
Jones - not good enough
Bailly - not good enough
Mata - Wasted at RW, too slow
Periera - Proved nothing
Matic - Too slow, too static

In
RB
CB x2
LB (backup)
RW
CM (play in Herrera role, Herrera to become CDM)
CDM (if Herrera wants out)

Priority 2

Out
Lukaku - He cost the earth, but we play Rashford instead. Can we swap him with a real WC striker?
Herrera - unless he wants to play as a CDM, get rid and get in a new CDM.
Fred - give him a season, if still crap upgrade

In
Another LW to compete with Martial (assuming Rashford is now a striker)
Another RW to compete with our new RW

The P1 stuff we should do in the next window or 2. The P2 stuff can wait until summer 2020, unless the right opportunity comes our way. For example, as Rabiot or Werner are available for free this summer if the club decide they're the right people to replace Lukaku and Fred/Herrera, then that's something we should move on this summer because of the opportunity.

We need to be f**king vicious, some of these moves could include promotions, but quite a few should be new signings I reckon.

 

[Freak]

Out:
Valencia
Bailly
Rojo
Young
Darmian
Fosu Mensah
Matic
Herrera
Mata
Sanchez
Lukaku

In:
AWB
Alderweireld
Rice
Eriksen
Bruno Fernandez
Sancho
Felix or some striker
Tuanzebe (promote)
Chong (promote)
Greenwood (promote)

 

[Ace of Spades]

The thought of getting rid of 10 players is more exciting than the thought of buying 10 new players

This actually is not far from how I feel. I just cannot stand to see the same useless dross get chance after chance, would rather play academy players, at least if we lose it will be easier to stomach than seeing this lot stink up the place again.

 

[Sylar]

Well, in 2011 we went out of CL in group stages to Basel. 8 years on, we had some of the same players playing, with a few of them in different positions (DDG, Smalling, Young, Jones)
4 of our back 5 from last night played 8 years ago in a night to forget. Id say only DDG has improved overall from that night.

3 of them have just been given contract extensions.

I cant see us being ruthless at all. Weve needed to be ruthless for our last two managers (especially under Jose). But it just hasnt been the case. I would love to think for the summer that we are seeing a change but nothing seems to indicate that.

The most signings weve made in a window I believe is 5 under LVGs first season (with one loan as well)
2 of the signings were agreed upon by the previous manager.

What we really need to do however is get rid off / sell a few of our players.
Darmian, Rojo, Sanchez, Valencia have contributed nothing to this season.

We also need to sign people who want to be with us and want to fight for us (not just high wages)

 

[Zlatattack]

This actually is not far from how I feel. I just cannot stand to see the same useless dross get chance after chance, would rather play academy players, at least if we lose it will be easier to stomach than seeing this lot stink up the place again.

Couldn't agree more. That was one of the positives of the LvG era, we got to see some youngsters in action. Fair enough not all of the made the grade - but at least they got a chance.

 

[deadrevelz]

We need to ship out 10 but we won't be able to buy 10 players this summer. Not just the cost, but the availability of the right players. We need 5 this summer just in order to start implementing a consistent playing style though.

RB, CB, DM, CM, RW.

To challenge for titles we also need CF, LW, AM.