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Your mind is always in the gutterSounds like a porn title.
Your mind is always in the gutterSounds like a porn title.
Erm, what exactly is your point there? Players who barely get a game are the definition of deadwood.Mata - barely gets a game
Herrera - would need to be replaced
Smalling - would need a replacement
Rojo - doesn't play
Darmian - doesn't play
Young - needs to be replaced
Valencia - doesn't play
McTominay - you're off your head
Bailly - doesn't play
Lingard - would need to be replaced
I wonder who would have been on the chopping block for some of you when we got smashed 4-0 in the Nou Camp in the early 90s, or when we got smashed 6-1 by City?
Such a knee jerk thread. We need to move the deadwood on but most of the players people are listing aren't regular starters so how does it solve anything?
We need 4 players that instantly improve our starting XI. Defender x 2, Midfielder and a Winger. That's it.
Mata - barely gets a game
Herrera - would need to be replaced
Smalling - would need a replacement
Rojo - doesn't play
Darmian - doesn't play
Young - needs to be replaced
Valencia - doesn't play
McTominay - you're off your head
Bailly - doesn't play
Lingard - would need to be replaced
I wonder who would have been on the chopping block for some of you when we got smashed 4-0 in the Nou Camp in the early 90s, or when we got smashed 6-1 by City?
Such a knee jerk thread. We need to move the deadwood on but most of the players people are listing aren't regular starters so how does it solve anything?
We need 4 players that instantly improve our starting XI. Defender x 2, Midfielder and a Winger. That's it.
Which is exactly what I said if you read the last part. What I saying is theres no point moaning about players that aren't getting a game. Yes get rid but what baring does that have on the starting XI. It's not a complicated concept, like reading.Erm, what exactly is your point there? Players who barely get a game are the definition of deadwood.
The idea is to get rid of these players, bring in players who will strengthen the first XI and some of the current starters should consequently be relegated to squad player status. It's not a complicated concept.
I never said keep them. But why focus on them after we get hammered by Barca?How will keeping those who never play solve anything? Some of those who's starting regularly now needs to take the step down to being squad-players.
Fair play to McTominay for having a couple of good games lately, but he's not United-quality. This is just history repeating itself (Lingard), a player that no-one expects anything from has a couple of decent performances and suddenly that's good enough for some to want to build the team around that player. If we had bought McTominay for £50-60 million people on here would have slated him after last nights performance, now he gets MOM.
But then why do you say it's a kneejerk thread? A lot of players should leave, and quite a few should be brought in.Which is exactly what I said if you read the last part. What I saying is theres no point moaning about players that aren't getting a game. Yes get rid but what baring does that have on the starting XI. It's not a complicated concept, like reading.
This is pretty much on the money.Out:
Young
Darmian
Lingard
Valencia
Jones
Matic
Lukaku
Sanchez
Rojo
Herrera
In:
Literally anyone else
Thread title: Ruthless strategy, 10 out, 10 inI never said keep them. But why focus on them after we get hammered by Barca?
Its kneejerk because it has come directly after a heavy defeat to Barca. As if those players have any bearing on the result. They dont. And we've discussed them to death on here already, so why bring it up again? What does it solve. We knew at the start of last season those players listed needed to go. It's like a scapegoat thread "we didn't win because of these players, boo hoo"But then why do you say it's a kneejerk thread? A lot of players should leave, and quite a few should be brought in.
And there is a reason to moan about players not getting a game: they're picking up a wage that could be used more productively.
Yea but that's just he ops decision. 10 out 10 in... who would actually take that seriously? Terrible idea.Thread title: Ruthless strategy, 10 out, 10 in
We lost to Barcelona because our first teamers aren't good enough and our squad players are worse. The best way to improve the squad is to get rid of the worst players and replace them with players who are better than the first teamers.Its kneejerk because it has come directly after a heavy defeat to Barca. As if those players have any bearing on the result. They dont. And we've discussed them to death on here already, so why bring it up again? What does it solve. We knew at the start of last season those players listed needed to go. It's like a scapegoat thread "we didn't win because of these players, boo hoo"
It's not just after last night, we are 6th and face next season not in the CL.Its kneejerk because it has come directly after a heavy defeat to Barca. As if those players have any bearing on the result. They dont. And we've discussed them to death on here already, so why bring it up again? What does it solve. We knew at the start of last season those players listed needed to go. It's like a scapegoat thread "we didn't win because of these players, boo hoo"
If we have ten players who are not up to the task why would we not want to replace them?Yea but that's just he ops decision. 10 out 10 in... who would actually take that seriously? Terrible idea.
Good post and agree with the parallels you've drawnYou're in need of the sort of transformation the squad saw between 2003 and 2006.
Over that period, many big name players left who had maybe gone as far as they could, or not performed as well as they should have at Old Trafford. Barthez, Veron, Butt, Phil Neville. Younger players were bought in for relatively low transfer fees that would go on to form the nucleus of successful United sides for many years, Ronaldo, Rooney, Vidic, Evra.
Over the same period, you lost Ruud van Nistelrooy and Roy Keane. Two seemingly irreplaceable players.
Roy Keane's ego had become unmanageable, even for one of the best managers of all time. I think you have a similar size of ego in the midfield at the moment in Pogba.
Although at opposite ends of the field, I think van Nistelrooy and De Gea are also comparable. Both excel in their position, but don't necessarily get the best out of the team. Whilst losing van Nistelrooy at the time seemed like a bad decision, it did wonders for the style of play for the team. Perhaps a change in goalkeeper might give you similar now.
That’s exactly what they will do, as they will have footballing people behind the scenes now planning 3/4/5 years down the line. I appreciate stability is needed to do that and it hasn’t helped that we have been through a few managers in the last handful of years, but that just magnifies the importance of a DOF and having footballing people making the decisions. Even if the manager changes, the club should have a clear identity and a plan in place.It wouldn't surprise me if they sold Mendy, Danilo and Ottamendi and bring in three upgrades this summer. Watch the difference between us and them when it comes to Aguero, D Silva and Fernandinho. They will have already identified who they want already which will mean their mini transition passes without a second glance.
Because even if we find 5 or 6 players who are up to the task, then they're coming into major instability and wont be able to show it.If we have ten players who are not up to the task why would we not want to replace them?
Good post and agree with the parallels you've drawn
I’m not really turning on players, the 10 I listed in the OP (apart from De Gea) simply aren’t good enough to take Manchester United to the next level. If we really want to drive on and catch up with our rivals, they need to be replaced and upgraded.I'm always amazed how quickly people turn on players they'd previously been praising after a few bad results...
I see where you're coming from with the instability issue, but another problem seems to be the shitty attitude amongst the current squad and the mediocre results it produces. You see instability, I see a potential blank slate, which is what we could do with IMO.Because even if we find 5 or 6 players who are up to the task, then they're coming into major instability and wont be able to show it.
Theres a reason we tend to do 3 or 4 players each summer. The fact that we've got those players wrong so much is the problem, not the approach. Which other clubs are signing 10 players?
I guess Fulham did. Did they get their £112 million worth this season? Or did few of the players settle and show what they were expected?
Monaco almost brought 20 players this season, 8 this winter. But it's a terrible example to follow.Because even if we find 5 or 6 players who are up to the task, then they're coming into major instability and wont be able to show it.
Theres a reason we tend to do 3 or 4 players each summer. The fact that we've got those players wrong so much is the problem, not the approach. Which other clubs are signing 10 players?
I guess Fulham did. Did they get their £112 million worth this season? Or did few of the players settle and show what they were expected?
Starting from a blank slate would take more than a season. Ole got the players into a good attitude, it was disrupted by injuries. Hopefully with a summer of signings we can start the season with everyone fit and back with that good attitudeI see where you're coming from with the instability issue, but another problem seems to be the shitty attitude amongst the current squad and the mediocre results it produces. You see instability, I see a potential blank slate, which is what we could do with IMO.
I've been thinking evolution would be sufficient, but I'm just not as sure any more and think a hard reset may be more beneficial. I may change my mind if we get some decent results between now and the end of the season, I'm fickle like that, we just seem a very long way away from where we need to be.Starting from a blank slate would take more than a season. Ole got the players into a good attitude, it was disrupted by injuries. Hopefully with a summer of signings we can start the season with everyone fit and back with that good attitude
Agree with you and players like Gomes,Chong,Laird,O´Connor should also be a part of that squad. I would like to see us go for De Light(Pay what ever it takes, the boy is a natural born leader), Bissaka,Tierney,Ndombele,Rabiot(free),Sancho and Moussa Dembele. Say the cost of those would be around 300 million pounds.My exit list would be;
Grant
Bailly
Rojo
Young
Valencia
Darmian
Pereira
Herrera
Matic
Sanchez
Mata
Lukaku
Lingard
Get 8 players in over the next two years, 4 in the summer, two at christmas and two the following summer. The other 4 replacements can be introduced from the academy or recalled from loan, Tuanzebe, Garner, Greenwood & Chong. 12 in and 13 out over two summer windows.
Would leave;
GK: De Gea, Romero, Henderson
FB; Dalot, Shaw, 2 new fullbacks
CB; Lindelof, Smalling, Jones, Tuanzebe, 1 new CB
DM; McTominay, Fred
CM; New CM signing with Garner as backup
CAM; Pogba + new CAM
LW; Martial, Rashford
RW; 1 RW with Chong as backup
ST; 1 New striker with Greenwood either of the chuckle brothers ive listed for the LW
Keeping back 1 further signing for summer of 2020 in the inevitable likelihood that at least one of the youth or current academy first teamers turns out to be shite.
If Pogba and/or De Gea go in the summer, their replacements would need to be added to this summer shopping list.
But we have had decent results since December, I think that you should remember that and not put too much weight on the last few weeks(I know that it's difficult). Personally, I think that evolution is the best approach but in doing that I'm willing to see anyone leave if it fits a larger plan, we don't have unmissable players and if some of them can finance arrivals then they are welcome to leave.I've been thinking evolution would be sufficient, but I'm just not as sure any more and think a hard reset may be more beneficial. I may change my mind if we get some decent results between now and the end of the season, I'm fickle like that, we just seem a very long way away from where we need to be.
I think realistically you'd have to do something this big over 2 seasons. 5 players in 1 season and 5 players the next season. So instead of a blank slate its half a blank slate.I've been thinking evolution would be sufficient, but I'm just not as sure any more and think a hard reset may be more beneficial. I may change my mind if we get some decent results between now and the end of the season, I'm fickle like that, we just seem a very long way away from where we need to be.
In any underperforming business, to put an end to complacency, rot needs to be cut out. Ruthless changes are needed with no empathy. United needs to operate in the same manner this summer.
I feel that 3/4 new signings would be like putting a sticky plaster on a broken leg. A complete overhaul is needed. It will take time for the new team to gel, but surely that would be better than watching the current lot plod about the pitch.
Young - kicked out the door, contract terminated, locked away in a dark room. Whatever it takes to get him out.
Jones - please go away. He’s been here far too long.
Herrera - his head was turned by money offered by PSG, so good riddance.
Mata - released to any takers. Take his contract offer off the table.
Sanchez - offload him if possible. May need to subsidise his wages. Fingers crossed China can help us out.
Lingard - isn’t good enough for United, I don’t care if he’s an academy product. Man United players need to be able to score and assist goals.
Darmian - I don’t think anyone knows where he is anyway, so just keep ignoring him and hope he goes away.
Valencia - thankfully halfway out the door anyway. Shins around the country will no longer get bruised.
Rojo - bye. Rojo is not red.
De Gea - I never thought I would ever say this but if he really wants to go, sell him. Go and pay Oblak’s release clause. The 3 amigos out the door in one summer?
That’s 10 outgoing players that will need to be replaced with 8/9/10 new players. If this isn’t done, average players will remain at the club. Anything else will be a half-job.
Who am I missing?
Edit: update to say that I don't mean 10 new players. Part of the 10 incoming players can be made up of youth joining the squad such as Tuanzebe to replace Rojo.
Totally agree with this, don't care if it takes one summer, two summers, whatever, there needs to be a plan in place to get rid of the utter shite we have, as you say if we can't replace them all then replace them with the kids, for me, after this summer (or more probably two summers) I want the squad looking something like the below:I think if we sold De Gea I’d be unhappy and I’d question it if we sold Rashford, Lindleof or Shaw. Apart from that I wouldn’t care who left.
Have to go:
Rojo
Darmian
Young
Smalling
Jones
Valencia
Sanchez
Bailly
Herrera
Probably not good enough:
Lingard
Matic
Lukaku
Mata
Fred (maybe a little harsh, the guy just has clown written all over him to me)
Seriously considering aren’t up to it:
Pogba
Martial
That’s practically our entire team. We need to have a crazy ruthless Summer. We’ve done it before in 2014 but we need to be more ruthless than that (and not buy in shit players).
I don’t care if we can’t even replace them with the right number of players. Just buy 5 quality players and then if we’re a little thin on squad depth give the kids a chance (Greenwood, Chong etc.). We’re going to be in the Europa League anyway. Just please don’t have the same familiar shite hanging round.
Well, duhYour mind is always in the gutter