Sancho won’t return to Man Utd until he's ready - Way too much inappropriate speculation.

[groovyalbert]

What’s the relevance?

Whatever is going on I really hope he's able to get the help he needs and recover. He's clearly going through a lot of stuff and it's great the club are taking the sensitive steps required.

But that said, he is afforded privileges in his life that 99% of us will never get to experience. His job is one that, if we could, we would probably all do for free. On a purely materialistic level, there's only so far he can fall during a time when there is great financial pressure on many.

 

[Buster15]

This raises the issue as to why so many players struggle badly when they join Manchester United. Particularly younger ones.
In fact one of the very few who didn't struggle was the vastly experienced Zlatan.
But it can not just be lack of experience to be able to deal with the huge expectations and pressures.
Part of it could well be the player character and mentality.

So I do wonder whether we prioritise this when spending millions on them.

 

[Zetrio2002]

He's given himself more pressure for no reasons. He already had some goals and assists to his name so he's not all that bad.

In fact, his goals and assists ratio is probably around the same as Antony.

 

[Real Name]

He earns over 300k pw. We are a billon in debt and apparently can't afford to bring in the striker we desperately need. This is in part due to the outlay on Sancho who has been an absolute dud for us so far. He needs to sort himself out and fast. Maybe he will come back stronger after this reset but if he doesn't he needs to be moved on, end of.

All this compassion required etc is based on pure speculation. Nobody in the know has said he has mental health issues. So I'll save the compassion until im told otherwise.

So nice from you.

 

[Shai-Hulud]

I find it amusing that some here think that you can avoid signing a player with future mental illness by doing a "background check".

 

[Real Name]

Oh here come the he has a lot of money so whats the problem posts.

 

[youmeletsfly]

Oh here come the he has a lot of money so whats the problem posts.

Yep, apparently money magically makes you happy or some sort.

 

[Rado_N]

Anyone mentioning his wages in this thread is an idiot and a prick.

 

[Andy_Cole]

You need to question the promotion/ newbie system in redcafe. The amount of idiotic posts I read nowadays. Would rather a limited forum.

 

[Scarecrow]

He earns over 300k pw. We are a billon in debt and apparently can't afford to bring in the striker we desperately need. This is in part due to the outlay on Sancho who has been an absolute dud for us so far. He needs to sort himself out and fast. Maybe he will come back stronger after this reset but if he doesn't he needs to be moved on, end of.

All this compassion required etc is based on pure speculation. Nobody in the know has said he has mental health issues. So I'll save the compassion until im told otherwise.

I’m not saying you are one but that post reads like it was written by a prick.

 

[Black Alabaster]

You're projecting your assumptions on him in the sense its probably not a mental problem although you dont have a clue about it and you also mention a shallow interpretation after you made one yourself.
Your example is his instagram and youtube which is. Dont know how to call it but incredibly shallow and simplistic.
And all that based on absolutely nothing.

Nice projection again, I am not assuming anything in this situation, that's exactly what you and a few others are doing whilst using a sense of morale authority with some of the people in here that aren't immeadiately jumping to compassion and empathy.

Just to be clear, I love Sancho and want him to succeed he is one of my fave players. But I'm just being fair and using the established facts of whats' actually happened & we've all seen infront of our eyes, whether you like the sound of it or if it fits your narrative or not sadly. It is up to you if you wish to use strawman arguments and cherrypicking in order to pick holes in it to support your position. Which I assume by your posts in this thread, is that Sancho is suffering from a mental health illness or disorder.

You are presuming this mental illness as a reason for his bad form whilst having zero personal insight or basis to go on other than the fact he has been sent from the squad to improve his fitness and confidence, which he seemed to have at one point earlier this season. (10 games 3 G/A)

You then fall back on the undeniable fact that mental health illness being a silent internal issue, can't be disproven as people suffer whilst still appearing outwardly happy and fine. Whilst this is true, it is a series of baseless assumed reasons from you and some others about why he is not performing to his Dortmund standard, that is where the disagreement lies.

34 Games - 26 G/A
32 Games - 33 G/A
26 Games - 19 G/a

Those are his league stats before coming here. Like any attacking player they rely on confidence in their signature routines & traits they've trained & practised and have had success with working. It is not working in England after we spent £73M and £300k/week on him, so it is now up to us to work him into shape and tweak his game which ETH has deemed is best done in the way it's being done.These are the base facts with zero assumption.

I am on the side of compassion towards players, but find this rush of using emotional reasoning, diagnosing mental illness onto an underperforming player is way over the top. There is a massive difference between feeling negative emotions like feeling shit because you are not doing well as you hoped, and actually having developed a form of neurosis which then effects your day to day life which is actually a long-term mental illness.

 

[chb23]

Probably already mentioned in the 7 pages so far.. but ... should we send Phil Jones too?

 

[ExoduS]

I wish him well.

 

[phelans shorts]

Whatever is going on I really hope he's able to get the help he needs and recover. He's clearly going through a lot of stuff and it's great the club are taking the sensitive steps required.

But that said, he is afforded privileges in his life that 99% of us will never get to experience. His job is one that, if we could, we would probably all do for free. On a purely materialistic level, there's only so far he can fall during a time when there is great financial pressure on many.

So it’s completely irrelevant. Got it.

 

[Solius]

He earns over 300k pw. We are a billon in debt and apparently can't afford to bring in the striker we desperately need. This is in part due to the outlay on Sancho who has been an absolute dud for us so far. He needs to sort himself out and fast. Maybe he will come back stronger after this reset but if he doesn't he needs to be moved on, end of.

All this compassion required etc is based on pure speculation. Nobody in the know has said he has mental health issues. So I'll save the compassion until im told otherwise.

Ah the old 'money means you can't have mental health/mentality issues' trope. What other classics you got?

 

[Sandikan]

We don't actually know the exact problems he's going through. A few people are assuming that the "not right mentally" type comment was meaning actual mental health problems, rather than just failing to adapt to stepping up serious levels in pressure and level of club.

Let's hope it's more the latter than the former, and after a decent bit of help/recovery etc he comes storming back. We can all agree on that.

 

[glazed]

He's been through a lot. Signing for Ole, watching him get sacked, Ralf come in and then ETH. The whole Ronaldo fiasco and the toxic dressing room. The club being sold. Losing his England place. Mason Greenwood. The Premier League. It's not been a great place for a young player. Hopefully ETH will settle it down and send him on a month's fitness holiday in Dubai.

 

[groovyalbert]

So it’s completely irrelevant. Got it.

It's not completely irrelevant, but shouldn't necessarily be the driving factor here. For all we know, the fact that he's performing nowhere near close to what we've forked out for him could be one of the contributing factors towards all this.

That said, there is a huge jump by posters here to make this a mental health issue when there's not a whole lot of evidence yet to suggest that's the case. Probably best we all just stop with the unfounded guesswork and hope he is given the time, space and necessary tools to recover and rediscover his Dortmund form.

 

[Solius]

So nice from you.

Don't want to waste some of that crucial compassion. Might need it for something else.

 

[Messier1994]

Some of the takes in this thread are too simplistic, lack empathy or downright ignorant or all of it.

I would actually not agree with that.

Look, there is a reason for why this is swept under the rug, why teams -- and society -- for decades has called it for something else than what it is. I had a really bad burnout in 2016. Took on every possible challenge in my life from birth in 1981 to I was 35 y/o, played pro sports, did military service in an elite ranger division, aced school, everyone was like 'do you ever get stressed? You are always so calm!' -- then I could not go to the store and buy food for 6 months, had to set up goals, I can walk to the next block without giving up, then the next block, three blocks to the closest grocery store -- and I was fortunate and after around 10 months I could get back fairly well. Worked 100% (150%) from after a year and now its a thing of the past.

If we turn back the clock to 2015 -- what would I be writing in this thread? I don't know. Its not a topic I had thought about a lot -- but I could never even remotely imagine that I myself could get a burnout. It was something that happened to others. I am not the type who calls out others perhaps, but would I think 'what a softie'? I don't know. What do I think now? It is a tad different for everyone. But to a large extent it comes down to anxiety. Anxiety is your body's mechanism for preventing you from doing something stupid or at least to let you know when you did something stupid. Anyone can imagine how it would feel if the worst possible thing happened. You get caught in an avalanche and know no help will come. You accidentally kill a child, your own child to make it worse, in a car accident while driving recklessly. How would you feel if that happened? Its just the max level of anxiety, and a burnout is often about the body starting to hit you with that max level of anxiety like a couple of times per day. You know its an overreaction. And while nothing is unbearable I recon, it is extremely unpleasant. Goes on for a few hours. Afterwards the body is completely drained of energy. You start to freeze. Slight trembles. Can't eat. The body has just been in total alert mode, you get sensitive for lights and sounds. Day after day, every time you try to push yourself you get hit by it, even when you don't do anything and just stares into the roof, you get hit by it anyway. Even if you can keep going a little longer, you aren't doing anyone a favor. You would not be functioning at a high level. Has nothing to do with being soft or a snow flake. You keep hearing some experts say stuff like '100 years ago burnouts did not exist, life was different, it was so tough from a young age that people learned to coupe with hardship'. It is 100% false. The longer you go back, the more common it was, since life was harder. Anywhere you look, if you have those glasses on, you will find information on how people ended up lying in bed for prolonged periods and stuff like that. Couldn't perform their duties. Captains of Man-o-wars being forced to be put a shore because they were in a sorry state. Stuff like that. It was a big problem with high officers during WWII. Of course. Why wouldn't it have been?

The only sane thing to do if you get issues like this -- and definitely the sooner the better -- is to take a step back. Deal with whatever issues you have, its an overreaction for sure, but there are always some issues that stir things up. When you have done that, you will come back stronger than before, 100%. But it can take time.

Can we expect everyone that never really heard about these type of things to understand it? Nah, I don't think so. But really, does it matter?

 

[redshaw]

Hope he gets back on track.

If his issues are more on mentality it could still be difficult for him to not slump back. For me I think he needs a clear role and can understand how deflating it could be if someone like Antony is brought it for a huge amount of money, one of ETH's own men and appears very strong mentally.

Sancho made a fairly decent start this season but Rashford has returned to form and Antony came in late in the window. If Rashford stays at the club and continues well it would seem the left side is mostly secured which he probably favours. His right side spot that was open for him to make his own now has ETH's own man there. If injuries and form fall right Sancho could play enough games either side but if Rashford and Antony stay fit he could find himself as a backup and confused about his role and why he was brought in for 70m on huge wages. I don't think a backup role playing sometimes on the left/right and centrally the odd time will help his concentration and motivation if that is the main issue.

People have said they hope he comes roaring back of course but ask yourself do you see him benching Rashford for most of the season, do you see him benching Antony for most of the season. Depending on the player, sometimes if the club is very successful you can juggle top players but really I think you need lesser backups, more utility players or upcoming youth players as second spot players. Two ~80m players for one spot is difficult and they expect to play for international selection chances as well.

I hope things can improve. The last few years one could argue the club hasn't done well with Martial, Rashford and Lingard either by being kept on too long, given promises then bringing in others like Sanchez and so on, too many players in one spot, being shuffled as a striker for a while then repurposed as wide player.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

It doesn't look good on Manchester United full stop. I get he has mental health issues but it's rare you see this on the top level (in football anyway) whereby a player becomes unavailable for selection due to it. It's well documented how Iniesta struggled with depression at a time where Barcelona and Spain were dominating world football.

Personally, I think it reflects brilliantly on Manchester Utd. So much ignorance on here about the struggles of mental health, and I suspect a lot of that is from people who are lucky enough to have never experienced it for themselves. Manchester Utd is showing a level of compassion rarely shown at the top of elite institutions or sports. We are supporting him both physically and mentally, and if that works, I guarantee you Sancho will feel a sense of loyalty to this club like nothing else. Let's hope he's one day able to repay that. We, of course, don't know all the details, but I think it's safer to err on the side of empathy and compassion, but then I could say that for a number of topics...

 

[Sweet Square]

Hope he gets the help needed.

 

[Real Name]

I would actually not agree with that.

Look, there is a reason for why this is swept under the rug, why teams -- and society -- for decades has called it for something else than what it is. I had a really bad burnout in 2016. Took on every possible challenge in my life from birth in 1981 to I was 35 y/o, played pro sports, did military service in an elite ranger division, aced school, everyone was like 'do you ever get stressed? You are always so calm!' -- then I could not go to the store and buy food for 6 months, had to set up goals, I can walk to the next block without giving up, then the next block, three blocks to the closest grocery store -- and I was fortunate and after around 10 months I could get back fairly well. Worked 100% (150%) from after a year and now its a thing of the past.

If we turn back the clock to 2015 -- what would I be writing in this thread? I don't know. Its not a topic I had thought about a lot -- but I could never even remotely imagine that I myself could get a burnout. It was something that happened to others. I am not the type who calls out others perhaps, but would I think 'what a softie'? I don't know. What do I think now? It is a tad different for everyone. But to a large extent it comes down to anxiety. Anxiety is your body's mechanism for preventing you from doing something stupid or at least to let you know when you did something stupid. Anyone can imagine how it would feel if the worst possible thing happened. You get caught in an avalanche and know no help will come. You accidentally kill a child, your own child to make it worse, in a car accident while driving recklessly. How would you feel if that happened? Its just the max level of anxiety, and a burnout is often about the body starting to hit you with that max level of anxiety like a couple of times per day. You know its an overreaction. And while nothing is unbearable I recon, it is extremely unpleasant. Goes on for a few hours. Afterwards the body is completely drained of energy. You start to freeze. Slight trembles. Can't eat. The body has just been in total alert mode, you get sensitive for lights and sounds. Day after day, every time you try to push yourself you get hit by it, even when you don't do anything and just stares into the roof, you get hit by it anyway.

The only sane thing to do if you get issues like this -- and definitely the sooner the better -- is to take a step back. Deal with whatever issues you have, its an overreaction for sure, but there are always some issues that stir things up. When you have done that, you will come back stronger than before, 100%. But it can take time.

Can we expect everyone that never really heard about these type of things to understand it? Nah, I don't think so. But really, does it matter?

Yeah, I agree but that's what forums are about, I was just commenting on other posters' take, of course not everybody will understand but some of the simplistic takes about serious issues I dont get.

Good for you that you overcame your problems btw and you get what Sancho is probably going through and that its not just pitch confidence and that he's a softy.

 

[MackRobinson]

Whatever is going on I really hope he's able to get the help he needs and recover. He's clearly going through a lot of stuff and it's great the club are taking the sensitive steps required.

But that said, he is afforded privileges in his life that 99% of us will never get to experience. His job is one that, if we could, we would probably all do for free. On a purely materialistic level, there's only so far he can fall during a time when there is great financial pressure on many.

The only pressure in life isn't having money and you would not play professional football for free. Anyone can hit rock bottom, and many times the money and fame exponentially increase that pressure.

 

[OldTrevil]

Good that the coaching staff is looking to work on the individuals to build the team.

Hope Sancho gets through this and comes back fitter.

 

[Glorio]

There should be a limit with the support. This can't be allowed to go on for years. Big wages come with big expectation as it happens in any work in life.

Yes - big wages make you super human. You deserve zero compassion just because your paycheck says so.

 

[kaku06]

Agreed with the support for Sancho and I wish he comes back stronger the lad.

But I’m amazed at the sheer hypocrisy of posters here who showed zero empathy to Ronaldo who was also going through crisis after losing his son and the daughter being in hospital. He himself said this was the most difficult moment in his life more than the passing of his father. His mental state was all over the place and all of you holier than thou posters gave him nothing but abuse after abuse for weeks and months on this very forum. I remember after his meeting with Jordan Peterson for his own mental health how this place reacted. Shameless the lot of you. Just maintain the consistency, eh?

 

[hobbers]

Having a poor mentality doesn't mean he has mental health problems. Pointless speculating without more information.

 

[FaceTheMusic]

I really hope he gets the help he needs. He's an excellent player and I'm sure he'll come back all guns blazing

 

[HookedOnAPhelan]

Agreed with the support for Sancho and I wish he comes back stronger the lad.

But I’m amazed at the sheer hypocrisy of posters here who showed zero empathy to Ronaldo who was also going through crisis after losing his son and the daughter being in hospital. He himself said this was the most difficult moment in his life more than the passing of his father. His mental state was all over the place and all of you holier than thou posters gave him nothing but abuse after abuse for weeks and months on this very forum. I remember after his meeting with Jordan Peterson for his own mental health how this place reacted. Shameless the lot of you. Just maintain the consistency, eh?

Name and shame please.

 

[Tarrou]

Agreed with the support for Sancho and I wish he comes back stronger the lad.

But I’m amazed at the sheer hypocrisy of posters here who showed zero empathy to Ronaldo who was also going through crisis after losing his son and the daughter being in hospital. He himself said this was the most difficult moment in his life more than the passing of his father. His mental state was all over the place and all of you holier than thou posters gave him nothing but abuse after abuse for weeks and months on this very forum. I remember after his meeting with Jordan Peterson for his own mental health how this place reacted. Shameless the lot of you. Just maintain the consistency, eh?

complete horseshit

I would bet there isn't a person on here who wouldn't show empathy for this situation

 

[Pronewbie]

Bouncebackability

 

[Elcabron]

What’s the relevance?

The relevance is that he needs to be moved on if he is not up to it as we have other areas in squad that need to be addressed and we can't afford to pay a player 300k pw for zero output. Get rid and bring someone else in on half that salary. We are hugely in debt.

 

[Elcabron]

Ah the old 'money means you can't have mental health/mentality issues' trope. What other classics you got?

Nope not what I'm saying.

 

[bosnian_red]

Really hope he can come back and actually fill his potential. These expensive flops are killing us. So many big money signings who put in a mediocre level or don't play close to the level that a player at their price should.

 

[11101]

I wonder what's happened to him. He was playing to a decent level and looked to be fitting into the team, certainly nothing to suggest what seems to be a sudden descent.

I'd imagine he has found it difficult to go from being a star at Dortmund to come to the PL. How he left City, perhaps he's not too good at dealing with adversity in the game, and this time there is no other suitor ready to promise him everything he wants.

Either way, he's one of the most talented players in our squad and hopefully we stand by him and he pays us back in full.

 

[kaku06]

Name and shame please.

complete horseshit

I would bet there isn't a person on here who wouldn't show empathy for this situation

So when he wasn’t performing well because of poor mental health state and everyone was giving him dogs abuse, did anyone consider his mental condition? Or before that when he didn’t join the tour because of his son’s loss and daughter also being in hospital. Did anyone cut him some slack when he was wasn’t scoring goals? Or when he gave the interview with piers Morgan and explained his mental state after the death of his newborn. Did anyone have any sympathy towards that interview or the overall situation?

Do you want me dig every single post for his performances and after the interview to show you the lack of empathy towards his mental health?

 

[Oldyella]

Yes - big wages make you super human. You deserve zero compassion just because your paycheck says so.

I wonder what the cut off is? Does mental health coincide with your tax bracket? Or is it at the point you are a millionaire and suddenly hit some state of mental bliss? Pity those poor bustards in the £990ks

 

[Elcabron]

Really hope he can come back and actually fill his potential. These expensive flops are killing us. So many big money signings who put in a mediocre level or don't play close to the level that a player at their price should.

Exactly.