Sandro Tonali | Signs for Newcastle

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romufc

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I hope clubs catch on and create a Newcastle tax, United have been burdened with this tax for years.
Think the word you are looking for is Incompetence.

The difference is, Newcaslte hired good people to conduct transfer business, United have had Ed Woodward all these years under the Glazers regime.

From the sale process you can tell why we have been so bad, they cant do anything right.
 

SalfordRed18

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People only want him because he is Italian and he has long hair so they think he is like Pirlo. He's reaaalllly average. It's an outrageous fee. Maybe I'll be proven wrong but I don't think he becomes more than a squad player for them, just like Gordon.

Hell just look at his fbref profile. Painfully average. Well below average in touches, pass accuracy, # of passes, progressive passes, passes into final third... In fact the only aspect he stands out in in any above average way is set piece related things. Where they have Trippier. Happily miss out on him.
This post has potential.
 

bosnian_red

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This post has potential.
Sticking my neck out! But i would LOVE to hear any explanation as to why he looks like this in my quote below. Because I have never seen a *good* player look this bad in the numbers. Good players, especially someone supposed to be good on the ball, show their quality, they are used by their teams to show their quality, and you can track what they are good at in some way. This isn't just a 1 season thing - this is standard for him.

Might well come back and be a laughable post where I got it horribly wrong... But the numbers have never been this wrong before if he does show up to be something better than average, but decently press resistant with good set piece delivery and not much more than energy outside of that.
So some stats on him:
  • 32nd percentile in tackles and interceptions
  • 46th percentile in touches
  • 13th percentile in successful take on %
  • 75th percentile progressive carries (decent)
  • 88th percentile dispossessed (good, doesn't lose it often through bad touches)
  • 28th percentile in carries - doesn't run with it much
  • 24th percentile aerial success rate
  • 13th percentile pass completion
  • 50th percentile passes attempted
  • 37th percentile passes into final third
  • 46th percentile progressive passes
  • 44th percentile xG
  • 46th percentile shots total
  • 57th percentile Shot creating action (live)
  • 87th percentile shot creation action (dead)

That pretty much summarizes his (open play) stats. He's got 80's and 90's for stuff involved with set piece delivery where he gets a good chunk of assists/key passes. Basically - he's Italian James Ward Prowse who is a below average midfielder apart from set pieces. Keep in mind that stats like those above are stats that Guimaraes fecking dominated in Ligue 1, in the 90s for the majority of them. Stats aren't everything - but I promise you that a good player is never going to look that shit and be entirely underused by his club. They will stand out in some way in the numbers. Defensive stats are hard to catch sometimes, on the ball you can always find. Those are worse than Van de Beek numbers before he came here, and for him the stats people were pretty consistent in saying "what does VdB do" before we signed him.
 

ThierryHenry14

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Sticking my neck out! But i would LOVE to hear any explanation as to why he looks like this in my quote below. Because I have never seen a *good* player look this bad in the numbers. Good players, especially someone supposed to be good on the ball, show their quality, they are used by their teams to show their quality, and you can track what they are good at in some way. This isn't just a 1 season thing - this is standard for him.

Might well come back and be a laughable post where I got it horribly wrong... But the numbers have never been this wrong before if he does show up to be something better than average, but decently press resistant with good set piece delivery and not much more than energy outside of that.
I don't know anything about this player, but so far Newcastle's DOF and the player recruitment team has been doing a pretty good job identify talents to improve the team. They got a top 4 spot the first full season after the take over. So my guess is they know what they are doing.
 

bosnian_red

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I don't know anything about this player, but so far Newcastle's DOF and the player recruitment team has been doing a pretty good job identify talents to improve the team. They got a top 4 spot the first full season after the take over. So my guess is they know what they are doing.
They also spent 40m on Anthony Gordon who is a nothing player. Eddie Howe has a track record of making some awful purchases despite being a good manager. Just because they did well with Trippier, Guimaraes and Isak doesn't mean they they are immune from mistakes. Guimaraes was obviously class before hand, Trippier everyone knew was class but wanted high wages and age meant not a whole lot of clubs were chasing, and Isak showed up very good in the stats for 2 years in la Liga before having a down year, after which they pounced (young players shouldn't be discarded after 1 bad year). Tonali has never shown up well in any of the numbers. So the question of what does he bring is a very valid one.
 

Adnan

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I don't know anything about this player, but so far Newcastle's DOF and the player recruitment team has been doing a pretty good job identify talents to improve the team. They got a top 4 spot the first full season after the take over. So my guess is they know what they are doing.
The player recruitment side is still being led by Steve Nickson who has been at Newcastle for 12 years and 6 years as the head of scouting. The big change is the ownership.

 

ThierryHenry14

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The player recruitment side is still being led by Steve Nickson who has been at Newcastle for 12 years and 6 years as the head of scouting. The big change is the ownership.

isn't Dan Ashworth who worked for Brighton the DOF for Newcastle now?
 

Adnan

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isn't Dan Ashworth who worked for Brighton the DOF for Newcastle now?
He's the DoF but doesn't control the recruitment at the club. That job is down to Steve Nickson. The role of the DoF is to oversee it all and empower the people working in the different departments on the football side of the club. Because a recruitment department is just one of multiple departments under a DoF but us fans seen to think that the entire football structure involves just recruitment.
 

ThierryHenry14

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He's the DoF but doesn't control the recruitment at the club. That job is down to Steve Nickson. The role of the DoF is to oversee it all and empower the people working in the different departments on the football side of the club. Because a recruitment department is just one of multiple departments under a DoF but us fans seen to think that the entire football structure involves just recruitment.
This is obviously different than what I have seen from Amazon documentary on Arsenal. Edu is the one responsible for the work but basically lots of people are involved in the decision making process given the amount of money involved.
 

Adnan

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This is obviously different than what I have seen from Amazon documentary on Arsenal. Edu is the one responsible for the work but basically lots of people are involved in the decision making process given the amount of money involved.
According to what I've read, the person in charge of the recruitment at Arsenal pertaining to the first team is James Ellis who was promoted in March. And it's him and the scouts working alongside him that provide Edu with the players to chase. And like at Newcastle, the head of recruitment even gets involved in making deals happen. The same is happening at Chelsea with Paul Winstanley (ex Brighton head of scouting) also accompanying the owners to finalise deals.
 

the_box

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They also spent 40m on Anthony Gordon who is a nothing player. Eddie Howe has a track record of making some awful purchases despite being a good manager. Just because they did well with Trippier, Guimaraes and Isak
And a few others tbh - https://www.nufc.com/2023-24html/transfers-howe.html - Burn, Pope and Botman all are at least value for money if not downright steals.

Wood (although we clawed back half his fee selling to forest) and Targett (often injured and unable to displace Dan Burn at left back ) feel like the only solid misses so far. I'd say the jury's still out with Gordon after only half a season.

Given all that I'm fairly confident in their ability to identify players who'll fit with Howe's system. I said I wasn't 100% sold on Tonali and I'm not - those stats are definitely a bit underwhelming - but I'm also willing to acknowledge there may be intangibles he brings to our shape/setup that don't get reflected well in stats, and that's what they see.
 

bosnian_red

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And a few others tbh - https://www.nufc.com/2023-24html/transfers-howe.html - Burn, Pope and Botman all are at least value for money if not downright steals.

Wood (although we clawed back half his fee selling to forest) and Targett (often injured and unable to displace Dan Burn at left back ) feel like the only solid misses so far. I'd say the jury's still out with Gordon after only half a season.

Given all that I'm fairly confident in their ability to identify players who'll fit with Howe's system. I said I wasn't 100% sold on Tonali and I'm not - those stats are definitely a bit underwhelming - but I'm also willing to acknowledge there may be intangibles he brings to our shape/setup that don't get reflected well in stats, and that's what they see.
Yep very fair with them too. Gordon to me looked a nothing player at Everton, the stats and analytics both show a nothing player and Howe has barely used him which to me says he's just continued to be a nothing player. But yeah we'll see there. Never understood the hype.

With Tonali, yeah I'm not saying he's a useless player, but he doesn't stand out. You can buy (or you already have) loads of midfielders who provide energy and that's about it. For that price, it's really a flop unless they become an important player (trust me, as a United fan... We've seen many of them). And I don't think someone can be an important player unless they clearly contribute on the ball or defensively. I honestly don't think he will be a starting 11 player for you long term after the initial period of forcing him in to work, given your aspirations.
 

DJ_21

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The moneys coming out now… gonna have an halve decent team next season.
 

Coxy

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If he fulfills his promise - they are getting a cracking player.
 

Abraxas

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Strikes me as one of those players that gets a good reputation as a relatively young player and it just carries on and on and on and nobody really watches enough Italian football to contradict that initial reputation. I don't see anything in the numbers to get excited about. That's in stark contrast to Guimaraes at Lyon.
 

Bebestation

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Weird how PL players are overpriced but this guy seems fine at 70mil.
 

DJ_21

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Guimaeres, Joelinton and Tonali, their midfield will be something to look for.
I like how they’ve somehow turned Joelington from a ST to a midfielder. That takes some doing. Was it Bruce that made that change?
 

L. Robert

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I like how they’ve somehow turned Joelington from a ST to a midfielder. That takes some doing. Was it Bruce that made that change?
Haha Bruce.

Howe did it but think he got lucky. Ciaran Clark was sent off early in the match against Norwich and Joelinton put in a monstrous defensive performance in midfield and that started it all.
 

CallyRed

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Playing in the best league in the world and playing in a defensive one. Not tough at all.
By the sounds of it he didn't want to leave, so wasnt an easy decision. Lifestyle/cultural familiarity is important to some players, not always about money or the quality of league.
 

DJ_21

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By the sounds of it he didn't want to leave, so wasnt an easy decision. Lifestyle/cultural familiarity is important to some players, not always about money or the quality of league.
True. It’s all about money for some teams though. Pushing a player out like that is awful.
 

Unam333

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True. It’s all about money for some teams though. Pushing a player out like that is awful.
I don't know about that. Justin Long... Errr I mean Sandro Tonali could have done a Frenkie de Jong and just stay put.
 

Pintu

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I don't know about that. Justin Long... Errr I mean Sandro Tonali could have done a Frenkie de Jong and just stay put.
The club probably threatened with never playing him again if he did that… The fans aren’t actually gonna back him on that either. They understand the business. Their club can’t keep improving if it pass on such financial opportunities.
 

Unam333

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The club probably threatened with never playing him again if he did that… The fans aren’t actually gonna back him on that either. They understand the business. Their club can’t keep improving if it pass on such financial opportunities.
You're obviously right. To be fair, I understand him not wanting to go to Newcastle. Newcastle or Milan. I know which city I would choose. Also, AC Milan has such a rich history.
 

croadyman

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Feel we would have rivalled Newcastle for him IF Erik hadn't clearly earmarked Mount
 

whitbyviking

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Disgruntled player moving to an alien country, in a city like Newcastle. Definitely sounds like this will end well.

Jose lining up a season long loan for him in 2024-2025.
 

Mainoldo

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Player didn’t want to leave. Sounds like a good sign for a successful signings.

This will just not work. But Newcastle are expected to make the odd mistake down this road.
 

pocco

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I wouldn't read too much into the stories of him being forced out or being upset because he had to leave. The Italian media is full of crap at the best of times, and they'd obviously want to paint it in a way that didn't make it look like it was a decision the player made for sporting reasons. I doubt he'd just agree to go there if he didn't want to, or at least try to draw it out in hope another club would come along.

Its all been done too quickly for me to believe he didn't have some agreement prior. He was even their number 1 target according to reports, but would Newcastle make him their number one target without some inclination that he'd be open to the move?
 
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