SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

Ludens the Red

Full Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2009
Messages
17,469
Location
London
But logic would always dictate that it will spread at home more simply because there are more homes and more people frequenting them even with restrictions surely? One figure doesn’t show the full story. It spreading more in homes doesn’t mean it hasn’t been picked up somewhere else. I’m not going to pretend to be an expert because I’m not so I’m happy for somebody to point out where I’m wrong.
Well yeah hence the restrictions coming into homes in England and Northern Ireland.
Nobody is saying it doesn’t spread elsewhere, it’s just that if it’s picked up in say a pub.. if you then start going around to a number of different peoples houses, mostly family, you’re more likely to spread it because everybody brings their guard down in homes. There’s no masks, people aren’t wiping things down at home, you’re there for a longer time, close contact is even greater . It just makes complete sense.
 

FootballHQ

Full Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2017
Messages
18,256
Supports
Aston Villa
Probably 90% of the people that had it weren’t tested. There was probably upwards of 100,000 infections a day to get to the 900 or so deaths we were having.
Have to say I'm truly amazed they only estimate total cases impacting on 8% of population as Vallence and Whitty said yesterday (sure they said a similar figure around June...) 100k infections a day in March and April gets us to 10% of population pretty quickly and it was still pretty high for official cases in May and early June until things calmed down for a few months for whatever reason.

My fag packet maths would have things at 15-20% (London is estimated at around 17% they said yesterday) but even with that still long way to go for virus burning out.
 

Adamsk7

Full Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2014
Messages
2,706
Have to say I'm truly amazed they only estimate total cases impacting on 8% of population as Vallence and Whitty said yesterday (sure they said a similar figure around June...) 100k infections a day in March and April gets us to 10% of population pretty quickly and it was still pretty high for official cases in May and early June until things calmed down for a few months for whatever reason.

My fag packet maths would have things at 15-20% (London is estimated at around 17% they said yesterday) but even with that still long way to go for virus burning out.
I think the true number country wide is about 15-20%. As you say, it’s still low. I think it’s impossible for them to say with any degree of certainty - just going from my partners experience, the leaflet told her there were many ways the test could go wrong snd even if it was performed correctly, there was a fair chance it would be inaccurate!! There’s also the chance that the antibodies just aren’t prevalent now and the body’s memory of how to deal with the virus is primarily in the T cells.
 

acnumber9

Full Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2006
Messages
22,290
Well yeah hence the restrictions coming into homes in England and Northern Ireland.
Nobody is saying it doesn’t spread elsewhere, it’s just that if it’s picked up in say a pub.. if you then start going around to a number of different peoples houses, mostly family, you’re more likely to spread it because everybody brings their guard down in homes. There’s no masks, people aren’t wiping things down at home, you’re there for a longer time, close contact is even greater . It just makes complete sense.
The restrictions are coming into homes because they have no impact on the economy. Let’s call a spade a spade. The figures provided lack context. Currently if I want to see my mum I’d have to do it at a restaurant or bar where I’d be forced to sit closer to her than if I sat on one sofa and she sat on the other.

I get why they are more willing to restrict homes than business but I find it disingenuous to pretend that’s not why they’re doing it, rather than shutting workplaces etc.
 

Smores

Full Member
Joined
May 18, 2011
Messages
25,528
We were supposed to be visiting family up north next week so we could go look at houses. Can't do that anymore, annoying that others meanwhile will be out in pubs
 

Mr Pigeon

Illiterate Flying Rat
Scout
Joined
Mar 27, 2014
Messages
26,300
Location
bin
Gove, the Cabinet Office minister, later told the BBC’s Today programme: “We are stressing that if it is safe to work in your workplace, if you are in a Covid-secure workplace, then you should be there if your job requires it.

“But, if you can work from home you should.”

-------

So going into your place of work is "yes but also no." Glad that's cleared up then.

Who decides if the place is Covid-secure?
 

Vidyoyo

The bad "V"
Joined
Jun 12, 2014
Messages
21,348
Location
Not into locations = will not dwell
Gove -- Today, we're asking all employees of the UK, who don't have autonomy in the workplace at the best of times, to only go to work if they need to but to stay home if you don't always need to go into work all the time.

Well cleared up as usual.
 
Last edited:

Mr Pigeon

Illiterate Flying Rat
Scout
Joined
Mar 27, 2014
Messages
26,300
Location
bin
Can they not just say something along the lines of "Your employees MUST be allowed to work from home unless you can explain why they need to use your facilities (for car garages, grocery stores etc). Your place of business must also follow strict guidelines otherwise you'll be fined."? Or would that require these charlatans to take more responsibility than they want to?
 

Santos J

Full Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2013
Messages
7,366
Can they not just say something along the lines of "Your employees MUST be allowed to work from home unless you can explain why they need to use your facilities (for car garages, grocery stores etc). Your place of business must also follow strict guidelines otherwise you'll be fined."? Or would that require these charlatans to take more responsibility than they want to?
Yeah probably this, it's daft. No reason at all for the majority of my office to be in when we can all wfh fine and did for months, but we've been back in since June and I'd be surprised if we're not still going to be working from the office regardless of today's message.
 

McGrathsipan

Dawn’s less famous husband
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
24,698
Location
Dublin
WFH indefinitely it is then. We just spent about a month deliberating on safety measures to return us to the office :lol:
I wrote the Safety plan for my organisation 0f 600+ People. We went back on Aug 10th and a week later we all had to go home again.
Stay at home for another 6 m onths
 

One Night Only

Prison Bitch #24604
Joined
Oct 16, 2009
Messages
30,794
Location
Westworld
Gove -- Today, we're asking all employees of the UK, who don't have autonomy in the workplace at the best of times, to only go to work if they need to but to stay home if you don't always need to go into work all the time.

Well cleared up as usual.
You're fecking idiots if you don't understand the message. People just nitpicking at stupid shit because that's the cool thing to do.

This isn't aimed at you specifically, but everyone who is saying it.
 

Ludens the Red

Full Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2009
Messages
17,469
Location
London
The restrictions are coming into homes because they have no impact on the economy. Let’s call a spade a spade. The figures provided lack context. Currently if I want to see my mum I’d have to do it at a restaurant or bar where I’d be forced to sit closer to her than if I sat on one sofa and she sat on the other.

I get why they are more willing to restrict homes than business but I find it disingenuous to pretend that’s not why they’re doing it, rather than shutting workplaces etc.
Well yeah obviously there’s a financial incentive too, I even alluded to that in my original post. Again it just makes sense though.

I don’t understand why it can’t just be both reasons (financial and health) without people getting all arsey about it. What do people want ? I don’t get it..we’re beyond the point of normality and there being a ‘right’ and ‘wrong’ way to do things. I do wonder what the alternative solution is for those who overly scrutinise these measures. What is the alternative?
 

F-Red

Full Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2008
Messages
10,908
Location
Cheshire
The restrictions are coming into homes because they have no impact on the economy. Let’s call a spade a spade.
Agreed, there's also the stronger case in that they cannot regulate social distancing in the home. Which is why businesses are being kept open, they have to conform to 'covid secure' guidelines, otherwise they run the risk of penalties or closure, which probably a good 95-99% of businesses are probably adhering to. They cannot manage this in someones house, hence the draconian measures. The perennial challenge in getting the messaging through is that many people are getting caught up in what the activity is, and I would hazard a guess the perceived logic is going after the physical environment in which the activity is happening.
 

Drifter

American
Joined
Jan 27, 2004
Messages
68,349
PM Boris Johnson says new Covid restrictions for England could last six months. Merry Christmas.
 

Dan_F

Full Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2012
Messages
10,391
We were supposed to be visiting family up north next week so we could go look at houses. Can't do that anymore, annoying that others meanwhile will be out in pubs
The rules haven’t changed for that have they? Unless you mean Scotland by up north?
 

acnumber9

Full Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2006
Messages
22,290
Well yeah obviously there’s a financial incentive too, I even alluded to that in my original post. Again it just makes sense though.

I don’t understand why it can’t just be both reasons (financial and health) without people getting all arsey about it. What do people want ? I don’t get it..we’re beyond the point of normality and there being a ‘right’ and ‘wrong’ way to do things. I do wonder what the alternative solution is for those who overly scrutinise these measures. What is the alternative?
Be honest about it. People are questioning it because they can see through the bullshit and for me that makes it more likely people will not follow the rules. That’s just my opinion and I know everyone is different but I’m from the school of thought that people should be treated like adults. Some will ignore the rules regardless of course but I think even reasonable people are tired of being lied to.
 

Smores

Full Member
Joined
May 18, 2011
Messages
25,528
The rules haven’t changed for that have they? Unless you mean Scotland by up north?
It's Lancashire so you're not supposed to have anyone in your home from the looks of it. Whether people are actually following that i don't know.
 

djembatheking

Full Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2013
Messages
4,049
If possible we have to keep schools open , keep people in work as we all have bills to pay and keep as many industries going as we possibly can . If this means cutting down on visiting peoples homes, not staying late in the pub or whatever other small steps we have to take to try and manage this then so be it . A lot of people need to accept sacrifices have to be made for the greater good and hopefully by making these small sacrifices we may just have a chance.
Unfortunately the only way in the end will probably be some sort of enforcement, maybe lock down as too many are selfish cnuts.
 

Ludens the Red

Full Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2009
Messages
17,469
Location
London
Be honest about it. People are questioning it because they can see through the bullshit and for me that makes it more likely people will not follow the rules. That’s just my opinion and I know everyone is different but I’m from the school of thought that people should be treated like adults. Some will ignore the rules regardless of course but I think even reasonable people are tired of being lied to.
But they kind of have, that was the given reason for reopening the hospitality sector back in June, it was the reason given for eat out to help out, that it would save jobs and places of business.
The government haven’t covered themselves in glory through this but I think it’s at a stage where literally every single decision or change that is made a whole load of people will moan about and give no thought to the logic behind it.

The governments mixed messaging shouldn’t be a reason to flout or ignore rules. You’re saying people want to be treated like adults well im afraid if you’re an adult you know that you doing wrong in response to a perceived wrong is not the appropriate adult reaction.

I got off a train a few days ago and a bloke was told off for not wearing a mask and his response was “talk to the fecking government, they don’t know what they’re doing”..
This isn’t being an adult.... I think the sooner people realise the goal is to limit spread and keep the economy going then changes like the ones made earlier make sense. There is no perfect fit or solution, everything is going to have it’s little loophole so to speak.
 

jojojo

JoJoJoJoJoJoJo
Staff
Joined
Aug 18, 2007
Messages
38,285
Location
Welcome to Manchester reception committee
It's Lancashire so you're not supposed to have anyone in your home from the looks of it. Whether people are actually following that i don't know.
You can look round houses for sale with an estate agent etc. But, you're right, no visiting the family in their home.

Can you cheat? Well, I'm sure people do - with a spectrum starting somewhere between "stand in front garden for a brief chat" through to overnight stays and birthday house parties.

Personally I'd book a hotel for the overnight, and meet family wherever it's allowed in the specific location, and indeed wherever they/you feel safe. We all have to find a balance. Delaying a house move may be an easy option for some people, but I know for a lot of people things like house moves have become essential during this limbo year. Or will be essential before things get back to normal normal.
 

acnumber9

Full Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2006
Messages
22,290
But they kind of have, that was the given reason for reopening the hospitality sector back in June, it was the reason given for eat out to help out, that it would save jobs and places of business.
The government haven’t covered themselves in glory through this but I think it’s at a stage where literally every single decision or change that is made a whole load of people will moan about and give no thought to the logic behind it.

The governments mixed messaging shouldn’t be a reason to flout or ignore rules. You’re saying people want to be treated like adults well im afraid if you’re an adult you know that you doing wrong in response to a perceived wrong is not the appropriate adult reaction.

I got off a train a few days ago and a bloke was told off for not wearing a mask and his response was “talk to the fecking government, they don’t know what they’re doing”..
This isn’t being an adult.... I think the sooner people realise the goal is to limit spread and keep the economy going then changes like the ones made earlier make sense. There is no perfect fit or solution, everything is going to have it’s little loophole so to speak.
I disagree that they’re being honest about it. And I think households baring the blame is wrong. Restrictions on visiting people indoors were lifted way before cases exploded. It’s been after all the other restrictions were lifted that cases have escalated again.

Nobody should be deliberately breaking rules obviously. But they should question those that don’t make sense. I shouldn’t be able to visit my mum in a bar if I can’t do it in her home. I know why they’re doing it but they’re lying when they pretend it’s because pubs are ‘safer’. They aren’t.
 

bri2013

Full Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2013
Messages
1,565
We were supposed to be visiting family up north next week so we could go look at houses. Can't do that anymore, annoying that others meanwhile will be out in pubs
Just book an eye test where you are going and you will be fine
 

Bosws87

Full Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2015
Messages
3,724
Did we ever get a realistic estimate of the number of infections a day in the height in march/april.

Because these charts the news keep throwing out saying highest level since blah blah blah of cases obviously mean absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things, because we were only registering 1,000 more cases a day in some of the peak times and you only have to look at hospital admissions to see currently we are well off that.

Like how crazy widespread was it actually then because all the figures currently have us way way way off those numbers.

obviously we could get back up there if we did nothing for the next 5/6 weeks but the stats presented in the media are for a narrative (obviously) not fair.
 

Adamsk7

Full Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2014
Messages
2,706
Did we ever get a realistic estimate of the number of infections a day in the height in march/april.

Because these charts the news keep throwing out saying highest level since blah blah blah of cases obviously mean absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things, because we were only registering 1,000 more cases a day in some of the peak times and you only have to look at hospital admissions to see currently we are well off that.

Like how crazy widespread was it actually then because all the figures currently have us way way way off those numbers.

obviously we could get back up there if we did nothing for the next 5/6 weeks but the stats presented in the media are for a narrative (obviously) not fair.
The answer is it was probably crazy widespread. Doubt we'll ever really know
 

Stactix

Full Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2015
Messages
1,788
Did we ever get a realistic estimate of the number of infections a day in the height in march/april.

Because these charts the news keep throwing out saying highest level since blah blah blah of cases obviously mean absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things, because we were only registering 1,000 more cases a day in some of the peak times and you only have to look at hospital admissions to see currently we are well off that.

Like how crazy widespread was it actually then because all the figures currently have us way way way off those numbers.

obviously we could get back up there if we did nothing for the next 5/6 weeks but the stats presented in the media are for a narrative (obviously) not fair.
Think it's still a way off, back during lockdown they did change to only testing those admitted to hospital/carehomes/Nhs staff and those rich enough.
Now anyone can get a test which is why it's overwhelmed but obviously testing shortages and still unlikely catching most assymptomatic cases.
A few weeks like this and could reach those levels again.