SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

[11101]

Acute care bed is not the same as a critical care bed. Hence the discrepancy. Acute care just means a bed available for an emergency admission. Critical care bed is one in which someone can be ventilated. Both types of beds are needed.

The numbers are also slightly irrelevant for the average citizen too. Other than for a short period of time a couple of weeks ago, in very specific areas, there has not been a shortage of ventilators/ICU beds in Italy. The government has managed to keep ahead of the tide by the skin of it's teeth.

It doesn't matter if you have 30 or 300 ICU beds per 100k if you only need 25. As long as everybody who needs one gets one it is not a factor in the death rates. I'm not aware of any country truly running out so far.

 

[Port Vale Devil]

684 deaths in UK today

 

[Fully Fledged]

684 deaths in UK today

One of them a nurse from my home town.

 

[Striker10]

It’s obvious that a mask is going to help prevent infection. Purely because they’ll prevent you touching your nose and mouth when out and about.

so all masks are equally effective? ..

I excluded, or tried to exclude the Deity bit from my point.

In fact many people I know with whatever faith, tend to believe their idea of a Deity that can be vengeful and aggressive, as well as loving and forgiving, there are lots of examples in the Bible (there are other religious texts which are also available ).

My point is that with time on their hands many people will be tempted to expound all sorts of hypothesis, one such being the idea that something, Nature, or someone, God (if preferred). will be exercising control of the earths population... to perhaps avoid the apocalypse.

It is not about accepting or rejecting ideas of Deity (Good or Bad) its about in this case the linking of the results of abortion and a virulent virus pandemic in a particular hypothesis i.e. the supposition made as a basis for reasoning around population control.

It will not be the end of such hypothesis especially when social media gets going on such matters.

Social media is no authority or credible witness. Some have agendas and some dont. God told folk to multiply. he did not add 'and ill tell you when to stop'. So as always discernment goes a fair way

 

[duffer]

I really feel sorry for supermarket workers at the moment.

The NHS working are rightly getting love from the public but the dude at Asda or the lady at Tesco didn't sign up for this shit.

 

[Fully Fledged]

I really feel sorry for supermarket workers at the moment.

The NHS working are rightly getting love from the public but the dude at Asda or the lady at Tesco didn't sign up for this shit.

They were talking to each other at my local Sainsbury's today, going on about the abuse they are getting over making people queue to go into the store.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Yes that makes sense. I've also just been reading this which might explain why there's so many different numbers floating around in the media:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3551445/

"Definitions of ICU beds

The differences between ICU beds may be technological capabilities (e.g. ability to provide specific organ support) or staffing, or both [4*]. While many consider an ICU bed one in which a patient can receive mechanical ventilation, this definition is by no means universal. For example, American ICU beds are often defined by staffing availability while Belgian beds are defined by the characteristics of the patients themselves [4*]. Beds in the UK, Australia, and New Zealand may be Level 2 (high-dependency) or Level 3 (full intensive care), but both types of beds are categorized and counted as ICU beds [5, 6]."

It does put the ICU beds in the USA on 20-31/100.000 people, based on various data, though again this is around 2012 so maybe not entirely accurate in 2020.

From what I understand from discussions in Europe, it's that the actual beds on the ICU's aren't really the problem (or they can create a new wing/area in a hospital). It's the lack of highly and very specifically trained staff that are required for these treatments on ICU's - new capable people can't be educated in four weeks - and also very much a possible shortage of medical equipments.

This is going to be a huge issue. Especially in countries like Uk and Ireland, that are running short of PPE so early in the epidemic. Which means more and more HCWs ending up sick/dead.

 

[Prometheus]

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I excluded, or tried to exclude the Deity bit from my point.

In fact many people I know with whatever faith, tend to believe their idea of a Deity that can be vengeful and aggressive, as well as loving and forgiving, there are lots of examples in the Bible (there are other religious texts which are also available ).

My point is that with time on their hands many people will be tempted to expound all sorts of hypothesis, one such being the idea that something, Nature, or someone, God (if preferred). will be exercising control of the earths population... to perhaps avoid the apocalypse.

It is not about accepting or rejecting ideas of Deity (Good or Bad) its about in this case the linking of the results of abortion and a virulent virus pandemic in a particular hypothesis i.e. the supposition made as a basis for reasoning around population control.

It will not be the end of such hypothesis especially when social media gets going on such matters.

It would take a spectacularly fecking stupid deity to try and control over-population by creating a disease that was lethal for the elderly but leaves kids more or less untouched. Goes without saying that anyone who would take that theory seriously is just as stupid.

 

[Fully Fledged]

He looks ill. Even though I don't like his politics I wouldn't wish suffering on anyone. I hope he gets better soon.

 

[sun_tzu]

That's really interesting, because I've read stuff over the last months that suggests otherwise. Now that stat you've posted refers to USA data from 2009, whereas the FT used OECD data from 2017 and came up with this picture.

Any idea what's going on there? Financial Times just talking nonsense, or perhaps a problem with the definition of 'ICU/acute care beds'?

https://www.ft.com/content/effd0dae-655f-11ea-b3f3-fe4680ea68b5

"The US and UK both have weaknesses in their healthcare systems which could trigger a collapse if the two countries experience the kind of severe coronavirus outbreak similar to Italy, a Financial Times analysis has found.

Both countries have fewer hospital beds per capita than most other western nations, the analysis shows. While the US and UK have about 2 beds per 1,000 people, Germany, by comparison has 6, while Japan has 7.8, according to the OECD."

Compared to the stat you've posted:

Spoiler

[/SPOILER

I think its comparing apples and oranges
i.e. what is a accute care bed vs a critical care bed
usa seems to have about 2 accute beds per 1000 or 200 per 100,000 and it then has 34.7 critical care beds per 100,000 (unsure of this is in addition to acute beds or incorporated in that figure)
Italy looks to have around 2.5 accute beds per 1000 or 250 per 100,000 and it has 12.5 critical care beds per 100,000 (again unsure if this is in addition to acute beds)
Also unsure if CV19 patients typically need acute or critical beds ... either way I dont think any country has enough for whats coming

 

[BusbyMalone]

They were talking to each other at my local Sainsbury's today, going on about the abuse they are getting over making people queue to go into the store.

My mum witnessed some of this herself. She was queuing at an Asda, and one guy started to remonstrate with a security guard and go off because he couldn't believe he had to queue to get into a supermarket. Treating it like some sort of affront to his freedom. He started ranting and raving, seemingly oblivious that everyone there was in the same situation as him. Cretins.

 

[sullydnl]

Out of curiosity, are many countries going with the 7 days of isolation he mentions rather than the 14 being mentioned elsewhere?

Seems strange to me that he says if he didn't still have symptoms he'd be out of isolation. Is it not possible to spread the virus at that point if you no longer have symptoms?

 

[Fully Fledged]

My mum witnessed some of this herself. She was queuing at an Asda, and one guy started to remonstrate with a security guard and go off because he couldn't believe he had to queue to get into a supermarket. Treating it like some sort of affront to his freedom. He started ranting and raving, seemingly oblivious that everyone there was in the same situation as him. Cretins.

I can't see what people expect to get from it, "oh yes your right go straight to the front of the queue sir." It just isn't going to happen so why vent on somebody that's just doing the best job they can.

 

[cyberman]

I do think if FG didnt do as shit as they did during the election we wouldnt be hearing how great Irelands response has been.
Pubs should have been closed earlier, there were calls weeks ago to safeguard nursing homes etc, hell they tried to stretch the pub ban to just after Paddys day until social media took hold.
We need to wake up. 15,000 test per day was always pie in the sky and if it were Boris who tried bluffing that he would be a laughing stock, especailly when our rate of testing has gone the other way.
From letting the Italian fans in for the 6 nations untested to pushing through our measures without discussion with NI when they were open to talks which caused a rift, we have been playing catchup. I think we are in for a rude awakening once the notion of pretending we are on top of it so we can laugh at the neighbours disappears.

 

[FrankDrebin]

Thankfully I haven't come across any disturbance or abuse thrown at security guards regarding my shopping experiences during this lockdown but the ones out there that do are absolute selfish,ignorant cnut bags.

 

[OnlyTwoDaSilvas]

My mum witnessed some of this herself. She was queuing at an Asda, and one guy started to remonstrate with a security guard and go off because he couldn't believe he had to queue to get into a supermarket. Treating it like some sort of affront to his freedom. He started ranting and raving, seemingly oblivious that everyone there was in the same situation as him. Cretins.

It's bringing out the worst in certain people, for sure.

There's an old guy who lives near me who went up to the local Tesco (which is a few miles out of the way of where he lives, he'd have no reason to be up there other than to go to Tesco, and there are 2 closer supermarkets to him) and filmed the staff reacting to him demanding to use the toilet and then uploaded it to Facebook. There's a set route in the store, and the toilets are as you come out of the checkouts, so he'd have had to go around the store, through the checkouts and then to the toilets. They were happy to let him do it, but he kicked off as if he was being vicitimised, telling them it's a shambles and whatnot, because he didn't want to walk the route.

I doubt he even needed the toilet, he just wanted to kick up a stink, because he started filming before he even spoke to someone. He was going to kick off no matter what they said.

He's been filming himself going all over the place in the last 2 weeks. He was outside Sainsburys last weekend, taking photos of everyone doing their shopping, uploading them and calling everyone hoarders.

He seemed a pretty normal guy before all this.

 

[El General 1994]

One of them a nurse from my home town.

Heart breaking mate. I know a few people who work in Walsall Manor Hospital (as my children go to school in that town). I myself work at The Royal Wolverhampton NHS Trust (Risk department) and I really cannot comprehend how brave front line staff are.

 

[Foxbatt]

It's bringing out the worst in certain people, for sure.

There's an old guy who lives near me who went up to the local Tesco (which is a few miles out of the way of where he lives, he'd have no reason to be up there other than to go to Tesco, and there are 2 closer supermarkets to him) and filmed the staff reacting to him demanding to use the toilet and then uploaded it to Facebook. There's a set route in the store, and the toilets are as you come out of the checkouts, so he'd have had to go around the store, through the checkouts and then to the toilets. They were happy to let him do it, but he kicked off as if he was being vicitimised, telling them it's a shambles and whatnot, because he didn't want to walk the route.

I doubt he even needed the toilet, he just wanted to kick up a stink, because he started filming before he even spoke to someone. He was going to kick off no matter what they said.

He's been filming himself going all over the place in the last 2 weeks. He was outside Sainsburys last weekend, taking photos of everyone doing their shopping, uploading them and calling everyone hoarders.

He seemed a pretty normal guy before all this.

They don't like it up em. That's what should be done to them.
Yesterday I saw at the groceries an old man having an argument with the staff because he was told to maintain distance. He said why should he and he is not sick etc etc and kicking up a stink.

 

[Fully Fledged]

Heart breaking mate. I know a few people who work in Walsall Manor Hospital (as my children go to school in that town). I myself work at The Royal Wolverhampton NHS Trust (Risk department) and I really cannot comprehend how brave front line staff are.

I totally agree.

 

[BusbyMalone]

It's bringing out the worst in certain people, for sure.

There's an old guy who lives near me who went up to the local Tesco (which is a few miles out of the way of where he lives, he'd have no reason to be up there other than to go to Tesco, and there are 2 closer supermarkets to him) and filmed the staff reacting to him demanding to use the toilet and then uploaded it to Facebook. There's a set route in the store, and the toilets are as you come out of the checkouts, so he'd have had to go around the store, through the checkouts and then to the toilets. They were happy to let him do it, but he kicked off as if he was being vicitimised, telling them it's a shambles and whatnot, because he didn't want to walk the route.

I doubt he even needed the toilet, he just wanted to kick up a stink, because he started filming before he even spoke to someone. He was going to kick off no matter what they said.

He's been filming himself going all over the place in the last 2 weeks. He was outside Sainsburys last weekend, taking photos of everyone doing their shopping, uploading them and calling everyone hoarders.

He seemed a pretty normal guy before all this.

Some people just need a little push or a spark (in this case, a global pandemic) to bring out their more unhinged tendencies. Makes them feel important, while everyone else just looks at them as the cnuts they are.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

rise of about 100 or so today, gutting. It's just the start though, we're sadly going to be seeing huge numbers for a consistent period of a couple of weeks I feel before we start seeing improvements.

 

[golden_blunder]

From Ireland:

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Presumably this is the gear we just bought from China, with much fanfare. Varadkar even made sure a picture of him ringing Beijing to say thanks was distributed through the media.

Which makes me wonder why the feck we thought our experience of buying gear from them would be any different to the Turks, Italians, Spanish and Dutch, who I believe all had similar issues?

Probably got it off the Wish app

 

[golden_blunder]

684 deaths in UK today

Damn. Sh1t about to spiral

 

[Foxbatt]

Probably got it off the Wish app

Nothing wrong with the official Chinese stuff. The ones of Wish or Alibaba is the problem. The Spanish in fact bought it from a Spanish company and not directly from China. The difference in standard between USA and EU didn't help matters either. Buy directly from the Chinese government approved companies so if it doesn't work then they can be sued. If you buy off Alibaba these kinds of things are going to happen.

 

[horsechoker]

684 deaths is close to what Italy has been at for the last week or so. Is there any sign that the UK won't reach 10k deaths in the next 2 weeks?

 

[jojojo]

Hmmm, well yes, knobheads will be knobheads, but keep in mind some at least of the ones shouting at the supermarket staff may not be in great shape themselves. There are quite a few people around with "hidden" disabilities - ranging from the minor (that mean they can cope with routine, but not with the lack of it) to the major (that mean they often rely on others to help them maintain that routine, or to manage essential medication or addiction).

A lot of support systems, (particularly informal ones and voluntary services but also GP/public health driven things) are out of action, or not operating in the normal way. Care in the community can be a beautiful thing when it works, but it's also very fragile.

 

[Drawfull]

They should have just showed this to everyone. Nobody would have left the house in March.

It's not that bad, just looks unnatural. Used to stick nails and teaspoons up both nostrils back in the day, and I think Derren Brown did it with a nail on one of his shows. You get a slight tingle in your upper teeth, but it's not uncomfortable.

 

[sullydnl]

I do think if FG didnt do as shit as they did during the election we wouldnt be hearing how great Irelands response has been.
Pubs should have been closed earlier, there were calls weeks ago to safeguard nursing homes etc, hell they tried to stretch the pub ban to just after Paddys day until social media took hold.
We need to wake up. 15,000 test per day was always pie in the sky and if it were Boris who tried bluffing that he would be a laughing stock, especailly when our rate of testing has gone the other way.
From letting the Italian fans in for the 6 nations untested to pushing through our measures without discussion with NI when they were open to talks which caused a rift, we have been playing catchup. I think we are in for a rude awakening once the notion of pretending we are on top of it so we can laugh at the neighbours disappears.

Not directed at you exclusively (especially as for all I remember I may well have done the same in the past) but regarding the closure of pubs, I'm consistently surprised at the amount of non-experts who can confidently state when the most opportune time to implement a given measure was, seemingly without need to refer to any of the data, data modelling or years of study actual experts seem to rely on. Unless you think the answer is to introduce all measures immediately I have no idea how you'd judge when to implement measure X in relation to measures Y, or how either will interact with measure Z. It certainly isn't something I'd be able to judge, any more than I'd be able to judge when and how to treat someone's cancer or what changes then need to be made to that treatment plan based on how the patient responds.

You'd swear there wasn't any science whatsoever to planning out a response to something like this, just people guessing when the right time is based on what they feel. An approach that if adopted by government would be very damaging populism.

As for the 10-15k tests per day, that's still their stated goal so we'll actually be able to judge directly over the coming weeks how far off they end up.

I do think the praise for Ireland's response has largely been a result of having the UK as a very present example of how much worse it could have been handled though, with several of our own issues having initially been overlooked. The nursing home point being an example. We know it was flagged as an issue quite a while ago, we know basic common sense suggested it would be an issue and now we're seeing that play out in the data.

 

[Amar__]

I was in Istanbul airport in early Jan and mid-Feb and they were measuring passengers' temperatures at that point. It says here they were doing it for East Asian countries but I was scanned both ways and it didn't seem like they were discriminating. That's worlds apart from full-on coronavirus testing but they were much more alert to the problem than the London airports, who were doing absolutely nothing all the way up to mid-March at least. They were very aware of the fact that not only do they have a lot of passengers, but they're a connecting airport between Asia and Europe so it wouldn't just be people staying in Istanbul but it'd be faciliating the spread at all of the final destinations too.

Really? That's praise worthy, looks like they reacted the first to the news then. Now it makes little sense, even though one passenger without symptoms could easily spread it to entire Turkey/Europe which was the case in Italy and Germany, but maybe in those early stages the mutation of the virus wasn't so serious and wasn't so easy to spread, like it did later in Italy?

Still lot of unknowns about the virus to make any logical conclusions.

And yeah, the UK's lack of reaction at the airports was ridiculous judging by the posts here, but many countries reacted far too slow when it comes to airports, which is ridiculous because it's one of the worst places to spread the virus. For example in our country they closed airports 20 days after they closed everything, They decided to kill small businesses overnight, but airports were free to go days and days, and looks like that was the case almost everywhere. I guess airline companies just have too much influence on goverments.

 

[JPRouve]

Hmmm, well yes, knobheads will be knobheads, but keep in mind some at least of the ones shouting at the supermarket staff may not be in great shape themselves. There are quite a few people around with "hidden" disabilities - ranging from the minor (that mean they can cope with routine, but not with the lack of it) to the major (that mean they often rely on others to help them maintain that routine, or to manage essential medication or addiction).

A lot of support systems, (particularly informal ones and voluntary services but also GP/public health driven things) are out of action, or not operating in the normal way. Care in the community can be a beautiful thing when it works, but it's also very fragile.

That is a good point which resonates with a call made last week by a local association supporting victims of domestic abuse and the fact that even though we are in lockdown, we can't ignore the fact that many victims are currently locked with their abusers without support in a stressful context. It's something that I didn't think about until this association said it.

 

[Grinner]

It's bringing out the worst in certain people, for sure.

There's an old guy who lives near me who went up to the local Tesco (which is a few miles out of the way of where he lives, he'd have no reason to be up there other than to go to Tesco, and there are 2 closer supermarkets to him) and filmed the staff reacting to him demanding to use the toilet and then uploaded it to Facebook. There's a set route in the store, and the toilets are as you come out of the checkouts, so he'd have had to go around the store, through the checkouts and then to the toilets. They were happy to let him do it, but he kicked off as if he was being vicitimised, telling them it's a shambles and whatnot, because he didn't want to walk the route.

I doubt he even needed the toilet, he just wanted to kick up a stink, because he started filming before he even spoke to someone. He was going to kick off no matter what they said.

He's been filming himself going all over the place in the last 2 weeks. He was outside Sainsburys last weekend, taking photos of everyone doing their shopping, uploading them and calling everyone hoarders.

He seemed a pretty normal guy before all this.

Have you thought about posting some shit through his letterbox?

 

[Moiraine]

How did it arrive in such a brutal fashion in Iran, a country that seems very unconnected to the rest of the world?

Exactly what I was thinking, considering that there are huge number of Chinese regularly visiting in Pakistan, due to that trade route they are working on. Pakistan should have gotten hit more severely and well before Iran.

 

[DVG7]

Any positive economists on here?

7months from now, once the mortgage holidays and all the payment deferrals are done with, and banks And lenders start wanting that $ back, what’s the best case scenario for the state of the world then? My understanding is that some lenders are tagging payments on at the end of the term, but some will be asking for their money once the deferral period is up. At that stage, we will have the most people in history unable to pay their bills, what happens in that situation?

Need someone to explain how it won’t be as bad as my logical brain tells me it almost certainly will be.

 

[Utdstar01]

More people have died in the UK than China. Find that hard to believe personally.

 

[Amar__]

Honestly, don't lose your powers of rational thinking in this emergency. The trouble is we can't receive information easily about the health profiles of those infected and who have died in every country for obvious reasons - it's not possible at this point for the public. There are reasons for everything.

One of the key differences between countries is their political systems. China could get a grip by doing what it does usually - curtailing the activities of its citizens.
Brave souls from Wuhan on social media and other online sources told us the truth - people were having their doors barred from outside and this just wasn't in some parts of Wuhan.

People who worked in neighboring provinces were shut forcibly in their apartments with a warning sign 'This person/family has come back from Wuhan.' Some were left to starve to death by neighbours. The local police/army/snitch brigades dealt swiftly with so called 'troublemakers' who were asking questions or whatever. They were put into vehicles and driven off God knows where. I'm not a China basher but their political masters at all levels are usually fudging data. One brave woman I watched told the truth - she said you can't get a bed or medicine or help even if you have money. The politically connected etc were treated.

Why on earth wouldn't an authoritarian Islamist Government in Turkey cover up cases? The secular state with a Muslim majority that was Turkey has given way to a dictatorship of sorts with an aggressive expansionist bent, engaged in open warfare against Syria which Turkey has invaded parts of as well as an open war against the Shia regime in Iran. Turkey called upon NATO to support it when it invaded Syria again and unleashed thousands of so-called refugees, many of whom fought in militias connected with extremists, at the Greek border. This is a sick, dangerous government that endorses rapes of its political opponents - talking men mostly here - in prison as one means of torture.

Do you really think Turkey is the kind of country where transparency is important? Japan is a kind of democracy along western lines although with a right wing government having members that are neo-fascists - many Japanese and foreigners really have no understanding of their ideology. It is has a relatively open legal system although there are some shocking aspects such as detention for two years on no charges etc and its 'success' in convictions comes from signed confessions with no lawyer allowed to be present. Japan covered up COVID-19 cases because of the Olympic Games - it has had no scruples about playing Russian Roulette with the lives of citizens and residents. It is still hiding information and still testing at woefully low numbers.

So why is anybody remotely surprised by Turkey's situation? It's really a no-brainer. Authoritarian, secretive and at the present expanding. Yet you're surprised by the COVID-19 situation there?

Yeah, none of that about Turkey makes sense because Turkey was the first that took some measures(as @Brwned said from his own experience) , and they are transparently showing number of infected and dead from Covid-19. They also have lot of medical staff infected by their reports, so I don't see why would they first hide it, and now show it again?

Exactly my sentiment with that first paragraph.

On the second bit, my idea is that it's been there for a while but the lack of a sharp increase in the mortality rate didn't trigger any alarm bells, and the theory is that it mutated since then and became deadlier. A lot of speculation here but somebody I know had something you would now certainly describe as Covid-19 (late last year) and its infection rate coupled with today's mass travel makes me think it had to have arrived long before the first official cases.

Mutation is the only thing that would give some sense to this situation. I mean, if they wanted to hide it surely you wouldn't be showing even more than 16k infected and 300 deaths so far, surely that would be hidden too?

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Any positive economists on here?

7months from now, once the mortgage holidays and all the payment deferrals are done with, and banks And lenders start wanting that $ back, what’s the best case scenario for the state of the world then? My understanding is that some lenders are tagging payments on at the end of the term, but some will be asking for their money once the deferral period is up. At that stage, we will have the most people in history unable to pay their bills, what happens in that situation?

Need someone to explain how it won’t be as bad as my logical brain tells me it almost certainly will be.

I know Lloyds Bank will be upping peoples payments according to their letter. Managing at the moment so should be OK, but if someone takes the payment break and does not realise the outcome could be in for a shock.

 

[Skills]

684 deaths is close to what Italy has been at for the last week or so. Is there any sign that the UK won't reach 10k deaths in the next 2 weeks?

We're still on the exponential growth path yet. In Italy, the measures only started to take effect 2 weeks after the lockdown (at least in terms of slowing the infection). We're only a week in.

 

[redshaw]

​

United Kingdom Dates​	UK Deaths​	Italy Dates​	Italy Deaths​	Spain Dates​	Spain Deaths​	France Dates​	France Deaths​	Germany Dates​	Germany Deaths​	USA Dates​	USA Deaths​
Mar 8th​	3​	Feb-23rd​	3​	Mar 5th​	3​	Mar 2nd​	3​	Mar 11th​	3​	Mar 1st​	2​
Mar 9th​	5​	Feb 24th​	7​	Mar 6th​	8​	Mar 3rd​	4​	Mar 12th​	5​	Mar 2nd​	6​
Mar 10th​	6​	Feb 25th​	11​	Mar 7th​	10​	Mar 4th​	4​	Mar 13th​	8​	Mar 3rd​	9​
Mar 11th​	8​	Feb 26th​	12​	Mar 8th​	17​	Mar 5th​	7​	Mar 14th​	8​	Mar 4th​	11​
Mar 12th​	10​	Feb 27th​	17​	Mar 9th​	30​	Mar 6th​	9​	Mar 15th​	12​	Mar 5th​	11​
Mar 13th​	11​	Feb 28th​	21​	Mar 10th​	36​	Mar 7th​	16​	Mar 16th​	12​	Mar 6th​	14​
Mar 14th​	21​	Feb 29th​	29​	Mar 11th​	55​	Mar 8th​	19​	Mar 17th​	12​	Mar 7th​	19​
Mar 15th​	35​	Mar 1st​	41​	Mar 12th​	86​	Mar 9th​	30​	Mar 18th​	12​	Mar 8th​	21​
Mar 16th​	55​	Mar 2nd​	52​	Mar 13th​	133​	Mar 10th​	33​	Mar 19th​	20​	Mar 9th​	26​
Mar 17th​	71​	Mar 3rd​	79​	Mar 14th​	196​	Mar 11th​	48​	Mar 20th​	31​	Mar 10th​	31​
Mar 18th​	104​	Mar 4th​	107​	Mar 15th​	294​	Mar 12th​	61​	Mar 21st​	47​	Mar 11th​	37​
Mar 19th​	144​	Mar 5th​	148​	Mar 16th​	342​	Mar 13th​	79​	Mar-22nd​	55​	Mar 12th​	41​
Mar 20th​	177​	Mar 6th​	197​	Mar 17th​	533​	Mar 14th​	91​	Mar 23rd​	86​	Mar 13th​	49​
Mar 21st​	233​	Mar 7th​	233​	Mar 18th​	638​	Mar 15th​	127​	Mar 24th​	114​	Mar 14th​	55​
Mar 22nd​	281​	Mar 8th​	366​	Mar 19th​	833​	Mar 16th​	148​	Mar 25th​	149​	Mar 15th​	62​
Mar 23rd​	335​	Mar 9th​	463​	Mar 20th​	1,093​	Mar 17th​	175​	Mar 26th​	198​	Mar 16th​	76​
Mar 24th​	422​	Mar 10th​	631​	Mar 21st​	1,381​	Mar 18th​	244​	Mar 27th​	253​	Mar 17th​	97​
Mar 25th​	468​	Mar 11th​	827​	Mar 22nd​	1,813​	Mar 19th​	372​	Mar 28th​	325​	Mar 18th​	123​
Mar 26th​	578​	Mar 12th​	1,016​	Mar 23rd​	2,207​	Mar 20th​	450​	Mar 29th​	389​	Mar19th​	175​
Mar 27th​	759​	Mar 13th​	1,266​	Mar 24th​	2,696​	Mar 21st​	562​	Mar 30th​	455​	Mar 20th​	230​
Mar 28th​	1,019​	Mar 14th​	1,441​	Mar 25th​	3,434​	Mar 22nd​	674​	Mar 31st​	600​	Mar 21st​	298​
Mar 29th​	1,228​	Mar 15th​	1,809​	Mar 26th​	4,145​	Mar 23rd​	860​	Apr 1st​	732​	Mar 22nd​	408​
Mar 30th​	1,408​	Mar 16th​	2,158​	Mar 27th​	4,858​	Mar 24th​	1100​	Apr 2nd​	872​	Mar 23rd​	519​
Mar 31st​	1,789​	Mar 17th​	2,503​	Mar 28th​	5,690​	Mar 25th​	1331​	Apr 3rd​	1,017​	Mar 24th​	681​
Apr 1st​	2,352​	Mar 18th​	2,978​	Mar 29th​	6,528​	Mar 26th​	1,696​	Apr 4th​	​	Mar 25th​	906​
Apr 2nd​	2,921​	Mar 19th​	3,405​	Mar 30th​	7,340​	Mar 27th​	1,995​	Apr 5th​	​	Mar 26th​	1,159​
Apr 3rd​	3,605​	Mar 20th​	4,032​	Mar 31st​	8,189​	Mar 28th​	2,314​	​	​	Mar 27th​	1,592​
Apr 4th​	​	Mar 21st​	4,825​	Apr 1st​	9,053​	Mar 29th​	2,606​	​	​	Mar 28th​	2,039​
Apr 5th​	​	Mar 22nd​	5,475​	Apr 2nd​	10,003​	Mar 30th​	3,024​	​	​	Mar 29th​	2,431​
​	​	Mar 23rd​	6,077​	Apr 3rd​	10,935​	Mar 31st​	3,523​	​	​	Mar 30th​	2,985​
​	​	Mar 24th​	6,820​	Apr 4th​	​	Apr 1st​	4,032​	​	​	Mar 31st​	3,806​
​	​	Mar 25th​	7,503​	Apr 5th​	​	Apr 2nd​	4,503​	​	​	Apr 1st​	4,746​
​	​	Mar 26th​	8,215​	Apr 6th​	​	Apr 3rd​	​	​	​	Apr 2nd​	5,821​
		Mar 27th	9,134			Apr 4th				Apr 3rd
		Mar 28th	10,023			Apr 5th				Apr 4th
		Mar 29th	10,779			Apr 6th				Apr 5th

​

Italy took a big 800 death jump at this point. Hopefully we can keep this to 500 on average but with Spain and Italy still adding 800-900 dead per day I fear UK will be joining them sadly.

 

[DVG7]

I know Lloyds Bank will be upping peoples payments according to their letter. Managing at the moment so should be OK, but if someone takes the payment break and does not realise the outcome could be in for a shock.

managing at the moment is fine, but people are people. They’ll see some of it as disposable income, and not save anything for the inevitable recall. And people will assume that if they can be bailed out once, it can happen again. Obviously, all the deferrals is the right thing to do though.