SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

Organic Potatoes

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Yup. The prevalence of obesity, type 2 diabetes and renal failure in the US is incredibly high compared to most other countries. Lifestyle conditions that all increase Covid mortality.
Still not a huge sample size, but the death rate in New Orleans is significantly higher than NYC or Seattle. It like much of the South has a higher rate of pre-existing conditions than average for the US.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...e-new-yorks-obesity-is-a-factor-idUSKBN21K1B0

Detroit also has a serious problem in this regard.
 

Skills

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This is my local surgery actually. They've been ripped apart in the Welsh media.

Off topic somewhat, can someone explain something to me because I can't understand this one:

Iran.

As far as I'm aware, Iran were the second country to be badly hit.

How? Iran is quite an insular country. It far from borders China. The Iranians are not known as big travellers or overseas tourists. And as far as I'm aware there isn't a massive Chinese community there, or much of an ex-pat situation in general?

How did it arrive in such a brutal fashion in Iran, a country that seems very unconnected to the rest of the world?
Oil. I'm not 100% on this, but because of their relationship with the west a lot of the oil exploration and refining contracts are probably held by Chinese companies instead. So there is probably a significant number of chinese workers going in and out of Iran,
 

711

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Stop acting so touchy. That's not what I was supporting. I said I wouldn't be surprised if they had their own Dominic Cummings too. But before I even replied, you had clearly already lost your shit (e.g. insulting another poster "it's the pile of shite in your head") that I doubt you processed what I said.
Your Japan/Cummings post was quite clear. And still in the wrong thread.
 

Sarni

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New rules restricting the number of people in shops are utter nonsense. 100+ people crowding in front of supermarket waiting to go in while up until last week I literally never saw more than 10 people at the same time inside the supermarket - and current limit is 15 people anyway but because of those new rules people are crowding to stock up. I’ve been waiting 45 minutes already and not even halfway through the queue in front of store. Nobody is really keeping 2m distance either so it’s not safe at all.
 

Pogue Mahone

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Still not a huge sample size, but the death rate in New Orleans is significantly higher than NYC or Seattle. It like much of the South has a higher rate of pre-existing conditions than average for the US.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...e-new-yorks-obesity-is-a-factor-idUSKBN21K1B0

Detroit also has a serious problem in this regard.
The lack of free healthcare will compound the problem. You'll get a lot of people who don't have the necessary insurance doing everything possible to avoid being admitted to hospital and ending up being bankrupted as a result. Which will result in a higher rate of community deaths than you're seeing in European (and Asian?) countries.
 

Prometheus

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And you said I was the shittest poster in here. :houllier:
I'm sorry, but no-one is gonna top your posts on here.

1. Persistently bragging about how "Swedish independence" is saving you, unlike cultures with "inter-generational living" and other ailments.
2. Shitting on other countries and how the cheek-kissing culture is "no doubt" responsible for the spread of the virus in Spain, Italy etc
3. When it gets bad, blaming the spread of the virus on the immigrant subsets of Swedish society :lol:
4. Constantly defending every government that uses the phrase "scientific advise", partly because you clearly don't know any science.

You've zero self-awareness. I ignore your posts now because no thought goes into your replies. :lol:
 
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Virgil

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Not quite sure mine belongs with those others tbh, but you're right, I don't feel any shame for feeling incredibly fecked off that NHS staff are being asked to sort out this crisis after 10 years of the institution being systematically hacked to pieces by a shameless bunch of cnuts who care so little about the doctors and nurses fighting this that they can't even be bothered to test them or sort out adequate PPE for them, who couldn't be bothered to address systematic failures to recruit enough staff, who cheered when they blocked a pay rise for nurses, who have ignored the need for more funding, and who were voted back in by 43% of the population who decided that that track record was a-ok.

I get it, obviously, people want to show gratitude and feel powerless at the minute and a little thing like that cheers them up. I get it too that a lot of those people were duped by mendacious claims about new hospitals, Brexit dividends and a whole load of drivel designed to mislead them, but if people genuinely cared as much about the NHS and its staff as they say they wouldn't be voting in droves for parties that have proven themselves to be such unreliable custodians of it. Yet they did, that might not annoy you, but I sure as shit think that we could have given the doctors and nurses in this country a far better chance - genuinely grateful as I'm sure the people who have been clapping are there's a significant number of them who voted less than six months ago to continue asking them to work with one hand behind their back.
Part of what you say I can certainly agree with much I cannot. With the possible exception of Germany (thanks to Roche) and one or two Asian countries like South Korea who in the world has enough testing or PPE. Everyone is screaming out for more and I may be misguided but I don’t think the situation in the U.K. would be any different if we had elected a different colour to govern us. Not even a government of national unity would have a handle on this awful disease at this stage. Yes perhaps we could have been quicker off the mark but that claim can be levelled against the whole of Europe.

Certainly when this is all over the country will have to rethink it’s policy on recruitment and retention including salaries of NHS staff but that will also have to include care workers. We can no longer afford to rely on cheap labour and often unskilled workers to provide care in the community. Question is how many of us will be prepared to pay the cost.

Finally on the issue of running down the NHS I agree it’s accelerated under the Tories but unlike you I don’t absolve Labour for it’s part. The reduction in ICU beds commenced during the Labour watch. I’m not the least bit interested in who has fecked it up more both major parties bear a share of the blame. Just to reinforce my point it was good old Tony’s party that gave my nearest city, Norwich, a brand new hospital funded by PPI because they refused to borrow the money to build it. Net result was saddling the local health trust with a massive debt well into the future - money that could have been better spent on front line services. And don’t get me started on which of our major political parties have neglected MentalHealth the most.

IMHO the health and welfare service should be outside the political arena but I’m not holding my breath it ever will be.

So for now I will offer what limited support I can to all the valiant workers in the NHS but not forgetting the police and army and supermarket workers doing there very best to keep me safe. And if my clapping gives them even the slightest lift I will keep doing it and feck politics. That can wait until the danger is past.

To one and all stay safe.
 

Jippy

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Some posters really should look inside themselves






Do they truthfully not realise how hateful and full of bile their comments appear. At a time when parts of the world are fighting for its very existence. Shame on them not of course that they will feel any I’m sure.
You've answered your own question. Emotive events provoke emotional responses.
Hancock keeps committing to 100k tests a day when still only 2,000 NHS workers have been tested. It's no real surprise people are angry with this greedy, inept government.
 

NinjaFletch

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Part of what you say I can certainly agree with much I cannot. With the possible exception of Germany (thanks to Roche) and one or two Asian countries like South Korea who in the world has enough testing or PPE. Everyone is screaming out for more and I may be misguided but I don’t think the situation in the U.K. would be any different if we had elected a different colour to govern us. Not even a government of national unity would have a handle on this awful disease at this stage. Yes perhaps we could have been quicker off the mark but that claim can be levelled against the whole of Europe.

Certainly when this is all over the country will have to rethink it’s policy on recruitment and retention including salaries of NHS staff but that will also have to include care workers. We can no longer afford to rely on cheap labour and often unskilled workers to provide care in the community. Question is how many of us will be prepared to pay the cost.

Finally on the issue of running down the NHS I agree it’s accelerated under the Tories but unlike you I don’t absolve Labour for it’s part. The reduction in ICU beds commenced during the Labour watch. I’m not the least bit interested in who has fecked it up more both major parties bear a share of the blame. Just to reinforce my point it was good old Tony’s party that gave my nearest city, Norwich, a brand new hospital funded by PPI because they refused to borrow the money to build it. Net result was saddling the local health trust with a massive debt well into the future - money that could have been better spent on front line services. And don’t get me started on which of our major political parties have neglected MentalHealth the most.

IMHO the health and welfare service should be outside the political arena but I’m not holding my breath it ever will be.

So for now I will offer what limited support I can to all the valiant workers in the NHS but not forgetting the police and army and supermarket workers doing there very best to keep me safe. And if my clapping gives them even the slightest lift I will keep doing it and feck politics. That can wait until the danger is past.

To one and all stay safe.
Hi neighbour.

I'm not about to argue New Labour's record was perfect, so we can skip that (for a choice between New Labour and the Tories wasn't what the electorate has been offered since 2010) but I would certainly argue that we can't 'feck politics' until the danger has passed. Lack of PPE, lack of testing (not even just for doctors, in general), ignoring WHO advice and forging our own disastrous path, failing to join the EU ventilator scheme and lying about the reasons why to chuck money at Tory party donors to build untested machines are all political decisions. They all look like very bad political decisions and it's only when the government has been held to account and challenged on them that any of them have changed.

Pretending that there isn't a political element to this crisis doesn't help anyone. As much as the government would like to hide from scrutiny by pretending there isn't we're not helping people who will get sick by letting them do it.
 

NinjaFletch

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You've answered your own question. Emotive events provoke emotional responses.
Hancock keeps committing to 100k tests a day when still only 2,000 NHS workers have been tested. It's no real surprise people are angry with this greedy, inept government.
Which I believe was a number which also included the antibody tests as well. Massively shifting the goalposts as per usual.
 

RedSky

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From Estonia here. Was submitted to my local ER as I couldn't breathe anymore. Spent 8 hours at the "black section" of it with Covid patients. They took a test for it from my nostrils, also my blood tests and whatnor. The test came back negative, did get diagnosed with heavy bronchitis and asthma (latter which I didn't know I had). It was the most surreal hospitl experience I've had. The scariest as well. People in full camo guarding the doors, military level order within the hospital, the elderly patients given special care, full grown men crying. feck me, stay safe everyone.
feck. Assume you're back at home?
 

Virgil

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You've answered your own question. Emotive events provoke emotional responses.
Hancock keeps committing to 100k tests a day when still only 2,000 NHS workers have been tested. It's no real surprise people are angry with this greedy, inept government.
Even that is a travesty of the truth. It was only yesterday afternoon that he introduced the issue of 100k tests per day. So to say that he keeps committing to that number is stretching it. He also said he could not set a timescale To achieve it but hoped it would be by the end of April. Remind me on the 1st May if that figure is not met but don’t beat him over the head for not reaching that figure today.
 

JPRouve

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You've answered your own question. Emotive events provoke emotional responses.
Hancock keeps committing to 100k tests a day when still only 2,000 NHS workers have been tested. It's no real surprise people are angry with this greedy, inept government.
Do you know how many tests are being done daily in the UK? While I'm critical of the lack of preparedness from some of the french regional health agencies, I have to admit that they have done what they said they would in the timeframe that they initially gave, France is now at 20k tests daily and the goal is to be at 50k classic tests plus 30k rapid tests by the end of April, we will see if the goals are reached.
 

Rajma

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Do you know how many tests are being done daily in the UK? While I'm critical of the lack of preparedness from some of the french regional health agencies, I have to admit that they have done what they said they would in the timeframe that they initially gave, France is now at 20k tests daily and the goal is to be at 50k classic tests plus 30k rapid tests by the end of April, we will see if the goals are reached.
I think UK does something like 9-10k tests per day, which is nothing imo. Lithuania with its tiny population now does around 3k per day for instance.
 

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Even that is a travesty of the truth. It was only yesterday afternoon that he introduced the issue of 100k tests per day. So to say that he keeps committing to that number is stretching it. He also said he could not set a timescale To achieve it but hoped it would be by the end of April. Remind me on the 1st May if that figure is not met but don’t beat him over the head for not reaching that figure today.
OK but the point is he keeps committing to more testing, more PPE, but never delivering on his empty promises being my point. Now the footballer smokescreen invoking that old folk demon as a magnet to draw away the public's anger.

EDIT: This was meant as a different reply. Why not beat over the head with his repeated unfulfilled promises?
 

RedSky

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Lets be real, once the dust has settled in this country there will be a lot of angry people out there demanding to know why our country was so ill prepared for this. We are in unprecedented times but that doesn't excuse negligence.
 

2cents

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From Ireland:


Presumably this is the gear we just bought from China, with much fanfare. Varadkar even made sure a picture of him ringing Beijing to say thanks was distributed through the media.

Which makes me wonder why the feck we thought our experience of buying gear from them would be any different to the Turks, Italians, Spanish and Dutch, who I believe all had similar issues?
 

Nogbadthebad

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Has anyone else pointed out that hancock is promising thousands and thousands of antibody tests by the end of the month, while no actual antibody test that is ready for use exists yet.
 

Kentonio

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Google are providing location data to track changes in movement between different countries. They have split it up into categories like how many people are going to retail places, transit stations, workplaces etc.

https://www.google.com/covid19/mobility/

The UK for comparison is still moving between 10% and 40% more than Italy, especially in parks.
Really interesting data. The US figures are terrifying yet not surprising.
 

Grinner

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Lets be real, once the dust has settled in this country there will be a lot of angry people out there demanding to know why our country was so ill prepared for this. We are in unprecedented times but that doesn't excuse negligence.

Yeah but so what? Angry tweets and harumphing vids on FB won't mean shit to anyone in power.
 

Skills

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Excellent. Footballers doing this, and holding the clubs accountable for still paying their non playing staff is a lot more powerful message than them just subsidising the clubs expenses.
 

Henrik Larsson

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Finally the US significantly better equipped than Italy in terms of intensive care units – by a factor of about 3.
That's really interesting, because I've read stuff over the last months that suggests otherwise. Now that stat you've posted refers to USA data from 2009, whereas the FT used OECD data from 2017 and came up with this picture.

Any idea what's going on there? Financial Times just talking nonsense, or perhaps a problem with the definition of 'ICU/acute care beds'?

https://www.ft.com/content/effd0dae-655f-11ea-b3f3-fe4680ea68b5

"The US and UK both have weaknesses in their healthcare systems which could trigger a collapse if the two countries experience the kind of severe coronavirus outbreak similar to Italy, a Financial Times analysis has found.

Both countries have fewer hospital beds per capita than most other western nations, the analysis shows. While the US and UK have about 2 beds per 1,000 people, Germany, by comparison has 6, while Japan has 7.8, according to the OECD."





Compared to the stat you've posted:
[/SPOILER
 

Paxi

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My blood is boiling.
What the feck? Who is this Josef Mengele? Deserves to get deplatformed from every media forum available and never be heard again at the very least. Or feck it, send him to Africa and let him explain to the people what he proposes -- I'm sure they'll be considerate when feeding him to the fecking lions.
 

JPRouve

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What the feck? Who is this Josef Mengele? Deserves to get deplatformed from every media forum available and never be heard again at the very least. Or feck it, send him to Africa and let him explain to the people what he proposes -- I'm sure they'll be considerate when feeding him to the fecking lions.
The tweet is wrong. They are talking about the current BCG trials done in Europe and Australia not a Covid-19 vaccine and they are talking about including Africa in the current trials. What he(Mira) said and the way he said it were stupid but the report is wrong too.

Here you have a link about the actual subject.
 

Pogue Mahone

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That's really interesting, because I've read stuff over the last months that suggests otherwise. Now that stat you've posted refers to USA data from 2009, whereas the FT used OECD data from 2017 and came up with this picture.

Any idea what's going on there? Financial Times just talking nonsense, or perhaps a problem with the definition of 'ICU/acute care beds'?

https://www.ft.com/content/effd0dae-655f-11ea-b3f3-fe4680ea68b5

"The US and UK both have weaknesses in their healthcare systems which could trigger a collapse if the two countries experience the kind of severe coronavirus outbreak similar to Italy, a Financial Times analysis has found.

Both countries have fewer hospital beds per capita than most other western nations, the analysis shows. While the US and UK have about 2 beds per 1,000 people, Germany, by comparison has 6, while Japan has 7.8, according to the OECD."





Compared to the stat you've posted:
[/SPOILER
Acute care bed is not the same as a critical care bed. Hence the discrepancy. Acute care just means a bed available for an emergency admission. Critical care bed is one in which someone can be ventilated. Both types of beds are needed.
 

Paxi

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I think UK does something like 9-10k tests per day, which is nothing imo. Lithuania with its tiny population now does around 3k per day for instance.
Most of Eastern European countries have acted proactively from what I've been following. Except, umm, Belarus, I don't know what the feck is happening there to be honest.
 

Paxi

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What the feck? Who is this Josef Mengele? Deserves to get deplatformed from every media forum available and never be heard again at the very least. Or feck it, send him to Africa and let him explain to the people what he proposes -- I'm sure they'll be considerate when feeding him to the fecking lions.
Fair enough I was only going by the the tweet which is clearly designed to outrage people. Got me obviously.
 
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I'm sorry, but no-one is gonna top your posts on here.

1. Persistently bragging about how "Swedish independence" is saving you, unlike cultures with "inter-generational living" and other ailments.
2. Shitting on other countries and how the cheek-kissing culture is "no doubt" responsible for the spread of the virus in Spain, Italy etc
3. When it gets bad, blaming the spread of the virus on the immigrant subsets of Swedish society :lol:
4. Constantly defending every government that uses the phrase "scientific advise", partly because you clearly don't know any science.
1. Bragging? Hahha. I’ve said all along, deaths will be big everywhere and that all countries that are following their scientific advisors are doing the right thing.
As for Sweden, people like yourself are desperate to say they are doing it wrong which blows my mind, as how the funk could you have. a clue? I’ve simply defended their position, I’ve also said dozens of times I have no idea who will be right/wrong in the end.
2. Shitting on Italy for saying they kiss on cheeks as a hello, move out later than anyone in Europe and often live with multiple generations ? No wonder you hate science as you seem to have a real issue with facts.

I adore Italy mate, and I love their culture for what it’s worth.
Weird that I’d need to mention it but as a Brit, I take the piss all the time out of how cold and harsh Swedes and Swedish culture is. Give me Italian culture any day over this.
And I’ve mentioned multiple times that Italy was so unfortunate, no-one saw this coming and what happened in Italy will be the reason most countries will now cope better as Italy gave us an early warning.

3. I’m not blaming immigrants, what a gimpy thing to say, I’m saying Sweden may have failed them somewhat if Järva continues to be the hardest hit place in the country.

4. Eh?

But keep on building your strawman my man.
 
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Paxi

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OK but the point is he keeps committing to more testing, more PPE, but never delivering on his empty promises being my point. Now the footballer smokescreen invoking that old folk demon as a magnet to draw away the public's anger.

EDIT: This was meant as a different reply. Why not beat over the head with his repeated unfulfilled promises?
I'm not sure but maybe when it does come, it'll be etched into people's minds that they delivered on what they promised, albeit very late.
 

Henrik Larsson

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Acute care bed is not the same as a critical care bed. Hence the discrepancy. Acute care just means a bed available for an emergency admission. Critical care bed is one in which someone can be ventilated. Both types of beds are needed.
Yes that makes sense. I've also just been reading this which might explain why there's so many different numbers floating around in the media:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3551445/

"Definitions of ICU beds

The differences between ICU beds may be technological capabilities (e.g. ability to provide specific organ support) or staffing, or both [4*]. While many consider an ICU bed one in which a patient can receive mechanical ventilation, this definition is by no means universal. For example, American ICU beds are often defined by staffing availability while Belgian beds are defined by the characteristics of the patients themselves [4*]. Beds in the UK, Australia, and New Zealand may be Level 2 (high-dependency) or Level 3 (full intensive care), but both types of beds are categorized and counted as ICU beds [5, 6]."

It does put the ICU beds in the USA on 20-31/100.000 people, based on various data, though again this is around 2012 so maybe not entirely accurate in 2020.

From what I understand from discussions in Europe, it's that the actual beds on the ICU's aren't really the problem (or they can create a new wing/area in a hospital). It's the lack of highly and very specifically trained staff that are required for these treatments on ICU's - new capable people can't be educated in four weeks - and also very much a possible shortage of medical equipments.
 

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RobinLFC

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From what I understand from discussions in Europe, it's that the actual beds on the ICU's aren't really the problem (or they can create a new wing/area in a hospital). It's the lack of highly and very specifically trained staff that are required for these treatments on ICU's - new capable people can't be educated in four weeks - and also very much a possible shortage of medical equipments.
They don't really make a distinction anymore these days, or at least not in the more local hospitals. I know two nurses, both active in the geriatrics department, and they simply have to do shifts on the Covid-19 department as well since last week.
 

Henrik Larsson

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They don't really make a distinction anymore these days, or at least not in the more local hospitals. I know two nurses, both active in the geriatrics department, and they simply have to do shifts on the Covid-19 department as well since last week.
Seems like the only option there is really and I assume this will be happening everywhere when needed, hardly optimal but at least it's something. What I've heard over here in the Netherlands is that the 'simpler ICU tasks' on corona patients are now done by other medical staff in order to take the pressure off, but there still is a looming shortage of proper specialized ICU staff for the next months.