SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

[Berbaclass]

 

[golden_blunder]

This is why we’re screwed.

Ireland went back to full lockdown today. Schools remain open but everyone supposed to be working from home unless providing “essential services” When the same guidance was issued in March the buses were all empty. Just goes to show that a lockdown is no longer a lockdown.

Six weeks of Level 5 was supposed to get us open for Christmas but that’s based on modelling of measures that are theoretical only and bear no resemblance to the reality on the streets.

I cycled to Connolly hospital this morning at 7:30am to get my INR levels checked. About 6 busses passed me and I’d say 4 of them were 75% full of normal capacity. Where the heck is everyone going? Why can’t the drivers drive with the doors closed and the bus full sign if they have reached the 25% capacity.

 

[calodo2003]

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[Rajma]

This is why we’re screwed.

Ireland went back to full lockdown today. Schools remain open but everyone supposed to be working from home unless providing “essential services” When the same guidance was issued in March the buses were all empty. Just goes to show that a lockdown is no longer a lockdown.

Six weeks of Level 5 was supposed to get us open for Christmas but that’s based on modelling of measures that are theoretical only and bear no resemblance to the reality on the streets.

This is the exact opposite to what you should be doing, in Lithuania during the first lockdown we decreased the allowed capacity in the buses but made services to run more frequently.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

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Bear in mind that photo was taken after the “heart-wrenching hair loss”. And no, she’s not wearing a wig.

 

[calodo2003]

Bear in mind that photo was taken after the “heart-wrenching hair loss”. And no, she’s not wearing a wig.

‘Heart wrenching’ might be a bit hyperbolic, but to each their own.

I had never heard about hair loss being associated with covid & its after-effects before this.

 

[berbatrick]

Isn't hair loss a side-effect of some anti-virals? Or am I mixing things up.

 

[Wolverine]

I think its telogen effluvium, happens after a major stress like surgery or infection. Usually reversible over time.

 

[Nytram Shakes]

Yeah, it is definitely debatable how much, but it is worth noting that there is almost universal consensus that for this crisis, we do need to spend more.


The fact that we are artificially preventing people from participating in the economy for a temporary period means this is very different to a normal question about how should be spend in a recession. It's how should we spend to get through the crisis. And generally speaking, people across the political spectrum agree that significant investment is necessary in disaster relief. And now is as good a time as any to use debt to fund that.

So people asking for us to spend more, on things that are genuinely essential to livelihoods, seems fair enough. But there will naturally be disagreement on the right number. And when it moves onto the next stage and people start to think about getting out of a recession, people's opinions diverge. That's where people's political attitudes start shaping their argument.

agreed that why we have a Tory government offering so much financial support something I never thought I would see. But of course, just because funding the country by acquiring debt is a necessity in the short term, that still has to be done with caution as its only a very short term solution, so the amount of debt acquired and how it is spent needs to be carefully considered.

I agree that people should ask for essentials and to protect lively hoods were it is possible, it was the essential element finishes that I think people are struggling with, peoples lives and livelihoods are going to have to change because of this that's just a fact, there will be people who loved their job before the pandemic who probably have to start finding other jobs. I don't think people, in general, are ready to accept that yet and are just demanding basically every industry be supported until things go back to normal, which simply isn't feasible.

I just also think people are just acting like the government is just been stingy that not every aspect of every industry isn't fully financed every person not fully supported, we live in a country that constantly votes in Tory governments as it likes low taxes, but then complains about the lack of funding to public services people want there cake and to eat it. I worry the same is happening now people demanding the government borrow and borrow with no care of the consequences for that. And there have to be consequences you can't just rack up this amount of debt without it affecting the countries finances for years to come.

 

[calodo2003]

I think its telogen effluvium, happens after a major stress like surgery or infection. Usually reversible over time.

So, potentially more stress related than effects from the disease itself?

 

[Massive Spanner]

I cycled to Connolly hospital this morning at 7:30am to get my INR levels checked. About 6 busses passed me and I’d say 4 of them were 75% full of normal capacity. Where the heck is everyone going? Why can’t the drivers drive with the doors closed and the bus full sign if they have reached the 25% capacity.

Most retail services, shops, cafes are still open in some capacity this time.

 

[ryansgirl]

There’s absolutely no doubt that life as we knew it will be altered forever. It’s just the degree to which it has been changed that is still unknown as of now.

The change might only be as minor having to get a vaccine every ‘X’ amount of time elapsed or having to wear a mask everywhere, but we unfortunately will never be returning to how we lived our lives in 2019.

Not being rude but how do you justify such a finite perspective? I'm trying to understand why so many people are buying into this pre-destined scenario that is being pushed for a number of reasons in addition to the obvious health-medical ones.
Recent data from the USA shows that deaths from Covid-19 alone were around 9,000 while the other cases of the 200,000 plus were those of the elderly including those already sick, the medically obese, those with serious conditions that would be vulnerable to flu as well as covid-19 including cancer, hiv, etc.

The USA has a population of around 300,00 million people and the regrettable deaths of over 200,000 people doesn't even come close to those that have occurred from influenza over the years. Despite have flu vaccinations, the effectiveness of which depend on the strain of flu yet different ones are resistant therefore the death toll each year in the world including developed countries from flu. And where did flu go this year? Probably it co-existed with covid-19 in some of the cases of serious infection and the number of deaths.

I don't apologise for saying that the economic vandalism as well as rise in suicides that has been recorded in a number of countries, the disruption to normal social life etc etc has been and is proving to be excessive for a new virus that is far less fatal than the Hong Kong flu for example that caused millions of deaths or the Spanish Flu which is being trotted out as a kind of guide by some 'authorities' to impose lockdowns and masks as well as serious economic destruction and mental health problems in many countries. Despite the fact the Spanish Flu targeted the young rather than the old whereas covid-19 targets the old, those with fairly serious to serious pre-existing conditions, etc.

Why the panic? It is one thing to be very very cautious in the initial stages of a new virus and to understand how certain groups are very vulnerable as we saw in the over loaded hospitals of Europe for example. It is another to be witnessing just how this new virus has worked its way through populations without causing anything like deaths from other pandemics in recent history and in fact is having less serious casualties than different kinds of flu which governments and societies accepted as having a death toll each year higher than covid-19. Regardless of available vaccines.

This is a re-set - emissions have gone down by around 30 percent since air traffic was mostly halted, the appalling debt and inadequate economic policies of most govts and their failure to address the fact we are now living in the 21st century will be dealt with by this crisis whether the solutions will be good or not, and surveillance in a number of forms once thought of as intruding on human rights and civil liberties are becoming accepted outside of countries such as China.

Influential, unelected organisations and individuals are using this new virus to impose change that was not possible before. There will be serious attempts to render cash obsolete and impose world-wide digital IDS - the 'covid-free' digital passport is not a theory, it has been developed. All it takes is for enough govts to co-operate and as govts and politicians usually seek to cement their power, I doubt many will resist.

On one hand we are being daily spooked by media stories about how the virus comes back and people get re-infected yet on the other hand the 'covid-free digital passport' for you and me and everyone to be able to leave their countries and travel elsewhere is being touted as the best thing since sliced bread. Wake up. we are being played here as the power grab is similar to that after 9/11. The surveillance web created by Bush and his masters profoundly changed our world for the worst.

All the 'it will never be the same' for a new virus that is proving to be highly infectious but less harmful than many strains of influenza and other viruses shows just how easily people can be swayed by the constant barrage of internet memes. Thinking for yourself is almost being elevated to a crime with the left side of politics leading the charge most of the time. This is very worrying as the left used to be the side skeptical of govt power grabs and the huge corporations' influence.
The World Economic Forum, containing such models of democracy and free thought as Mastercard and a host of other cynical exploiters is all up in this 'Oooh, life has changed forever!' Think about the messages coming from the unelected as well as the elected.

As for masks, I live in Japan and while masks can be useful I don't think they are much of the story about why Japan has managed to avoid lockdowns. We avoided them here as well as the worst effects of covid-19 because to put it quite simply and truthfully, Japan is not a multi-cultural country with the massive mobility of immigrant countries in the west, no double or more passports, no living in one country for some time each year then coming back as normal practice, etc. Viruses rely on mobility to spread and that of western countries including the USA has much to do with it as well as the different strains brought in to western countries by this continous mobility.

As for Japan being a model of virtue because the Japanese wear masks and 'selfish' westerners don't - it is easy to get infected by your mask if you don't take precautions all the time and judging by the Japanese I see putting their masks down on uncleaned desks, tables, or even train seats, I'd say masks are only as good as how clean they are. Remember too that covid-19 is mild for many people so I have no doubt the recorded infections in Japan and non-recorded infections have something to do with the mask wearing culture.

To end, this summarises the 'noble' Japanese attitude to mask wearing - in surveys, most respondents have said that wearing masks because everybody else is, is the number one priority for them. Not stopping viral infections. The hive mind perfectly summarised and this hive mind should not be admired in western countries with histories of philosophers and other thinkers who inspired democratic institutions and societies no matter how imperfect. There is no equivalent in Japan.

 

[Nytram Shakes]

They don't have to be - that is the great Tory lie but that's a discussion for another thread.

Of course, it doesn't have to be, people could share wealth and prosperity equally but people don't.

There is also the possibility that if you invest more you grow your GDP more to offset your debt payment but in order to do that you need to borrow more and invest correctly which is an incredibly tricky tightrope to walk

You can also raise taxes, to pay the income, but as huge majority of British people pretty much lose their minds at any tax rise that not very viable.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

‘Heart wrenching’ might be a bit hyperbolic, but to each their own.

I had never heard about hair loss being associated with covid & its after-effects before this.

People have been known to lose hair (some not all) from any kind of illness which causes high fevers. Including Spanish flu.

I understand the motivation because we do need people who face very little risk from covid (i.e. young people) to be scared of it for the benefit of others but all the “long covid” horror stories are getting quite tiresome. It’s a nasty viral illness and nasty viral illnesses can feck you up in all sorts of ways which can take a very long time to recover from. SARS-COV-2 is by no means unique in this regard.

EDIT: Not having a go at you for sharing btw. Just feeling general long covid fatigue.

 

[Nytram Shakes]

You will never be able to stop people who do that. I’m not going to sit and pretend I’ve never called in sick when fit for work. It’s human nature to take advantage on occasion. But I do believe that workplaces end up with the environment that they have created. If they show no appreciation for the work you do, or underpay you. Expect to be taken advantage of. Most people will go the extra mile if their employers treat them well.

I think you have a far more positive outlook on people than I do, I think there are too many people who will take every liberty they can, both as an employer and employee. Maybe it is more exaggerated in good and bad work places but ultimately because there are too many people on both sides who abuse any system put in place it will never be fair.

 

[acnumber9]

I think you have a far more positive outlook on people than I do

I don’t think that’s something I’ve ever been accused of.

 

[calodo2003]

Not being rude but how do you justify such a finite perspective? I'm trying to understand why so many people are buying into this pre-destined scenario that is being pushed for a number of reasons in addition to the obvious health-medical ones.
Recent data from the USA shows that deaths from Covid-19 alone were around 9,000 while the other cases of the 200,000 plus were those of the elderly including those already sick, the medically obese, those with serious conditions that would be vulnerable to flu as well as covid-19 including cancer, hiv, etc.

The USA has a population of around 300,00 million people and the regrettable deaths of over 200,000 people doesn't even come close to those that have occurred from influenza over the years. Despite have flu vaccinations, the effectiveness of which depend on the strain of flu yet different ones are resistant therefore the death toll each year in the world including developed countries from flu. And where did flu go this year? Probably it co-existed with covid-19 in some of the cases of serious infection and the number of deaths.

I don't apologise for saying that the economic vandalism as well as rise in suicides that has been recorded in a number of countries, the disruption to normal social life etc etc has been and is proving to be excessive for a new virus that is far less fatal than the Hong Kong flu for example that caused millions of deaths or the Spanish Flu which is being trotted out as a kind of guide by some 'authorities' to impose lockdowns and masks as well as serious economic destruction and mental health problems in many countries. Despite the fact the Spanish Flu targeted the young rather than the old whereas covid-19 targets the old, those with fairly serious to serious pre-existing conditions, etc.

Why the panic? It is one thing to be very very cautious in the initial stages of a new virus and to understand how certain groups are very vulnerable as we saw in the over loaded hospitals of Europe for example. It is another to be witnessing just how this new virus has worked its way through populations without causing anything like deaths from other pandemics in recent history and in fact is having less serious casualties than different kinds of flu which governments and societies accepted as having a death toll each year higher than covid-19. Regardless of available vaccines.

This is a re-set - emissions have gone down by around 30 percent since air traffic was mostly halted, the appalling debt and inadequate economic policies of most govts and their failure to address the fact we are now living in the 21st century will be dealt with by this crisis whether the solutions will be good or not, and surveillance in a number of forms once thought of as intruding on human rights and civil liberties are becoming accepted outside of countries such as China.

Influential, unelected organisations and individuals are using this new virus to impose change that was not possible before. There will be serious attempts to render cash obsolete and impose world-wide digital IDS - the 'covid-free' digital passport is not a theory, it has been developed. All it takes is for enough govts to co-operate and as govts and politicians usually seek to cement their power, I doubt many will resist.

On one hand we are being daily spooked by media stories about how the virus comes back and people get re-infected yet on the other hand the 'covid-free digital passport' for you and me and everyone to be able to leave their countries and travel elsewhere is being touted as the best thing since sliced bread. Wake up. we are being played here as the power grab is similar to that after 9/11. The surveillance web created by Bush and his masters profoundly changed our world for the worst.

All the 'it will never be the same' for a new virus that is proving to be highly infectious but less harmful than many strains of influenza and other viruses shows just how easily people can be swayed by the constant barrage of internet memes. Thinking for yourself is almost being elevated to a crime with the left side of politics leading the charge most of the time. This is very worrying as the left used to be the side skeptical of govt power grabs and the huge corporations' influence.
The World Economic Forum, containing such models of democracy and free thought as Mastercard and a host of other cynical exploiters is all up in this 'Oooh, life has changed forever!' Think about the messages coming from the unelected as well as the elected.

As for masks, I live in Japan and while masks can be useful I don't think they are much of the story about why Japan has managed to avoid lockdowns. We avoided them here as well as the worst effects of covid-19 because to put it quite simply and truthfully, Japan is not a multi-cultural country with the massive mobility of immigrant countries in the west, no double or more passports, no living in one country for some time each year then coming back as normal practice, etc. Viruses rely on mobility to spread and that of western countries including the USA has much to do with it as well as the different strains brought in to western countries by this continous mobility.

As for Japan being a model of virtue because the Japanese wear masks and 'selfish' westerners don't - it is easy to get infected by your mask if you don't take precautions all the time and judging by the Japanese I see putting their masks down on uncleaned desks, tables, or even train seats, I'd say masks are only as good as how clean they are. Remember too that covid-19 is mild for many people so I have no doubt the recorded infections in Japan and non-recorded infections have something to do with the mask wearing culture.

To end, this summarises the 'noble' Japanese attitude to mask wearing - in surveys, most respondents have said that wearing masks because everybody else is, is the number one priority for them. Not stopping viral infections. The hive mind perfectly summarised and this hive mind should not be admired in western countries with histories of philosophers and other thinkers who inspired democratic institutions and societies no matter how imperfect. There is no equivalent in Japan.

Well, I definitely appreciate your reply. But, after every impactful traumatic incident in human history, life is altered going forward. As I stated, our lives may only be changed minutely by having to get an extra vaccine or quick covid tests before we get on an airplane or it could be changed to levels unimaginable. I tend to think that the changes will be closer to the former, but to think that everyone will be able to reset to their life pre-pandemic is simply Pollyanna-ish.

I’m sorry that flies in conflict with your apparent political ideology, but I could rebut a lot of your held beliefs in your statement (covid specific v. covid related deaths, the fact that mortality isn’t the most important issue at play to me, discussions of limiting spread). This is isn’t the best thread to do that in, I don’t feel. Just admitting that we won’t be going back to the status quo isn’t being a leftist loon, it’s potentially stating the reality of the situation.

Just admitting to this obvious fact isn’t me trying to come across as a fear monger or doom sayer, it’s just common sense. Look at the after effects of 9/11, our lives were irreparably changed especially regarding air travel. To think that this current traumatic event won’t have similar lasting impact is just silly. Even if it takes us ten minutes longer to pass through a customs check going forward than it did in 2019, that means are our lives have been changed. I’m not panicking, I’m just staying a simple fact. Not everything us leftist loons say is always ‘Chicken Little, the sky is falling,’ but many on the right often do blow it out of proportion to try to make it so.

 

[ryansgirl]

I see your point, thanks for your reply. I also wanted to express myself in that lengthy way as there is something 'off' about significant parts of the media reporting on covid-19 as well as the other agendas being pushed. Authorities and authoritarianism never waste a crisis.

I'd also like to point out that the 'inevitability' depends on how far people are willing to go to be servile and accept everything at face value while daily life shows us that now it is becoming clearer that covid-19 is being over-hyped in some aspects and it is being used in a social engineering sense. The constant mention of infections is never matched by pointing out that people are being continually tested everywhere and had this been implemented for other viruses such as swine flu and influenza in its different strains, those viruses too would have shown up in large numbers.

Again, watch the corporations like big pharma in the USA. A lot of the hype and over-hype is to do with cold hard finances and all the corporations like Mastercard and BHP and the other assorted 'models of democracy and ethical practice' are using covid-19 as the means to an end. The re-set economically as well as the usual 'elites' and their pursuit of more and more influence and power in order to re-make socio-economic structures.

A useful fact to keep in mind that tyrannies in history of all ages seek to restrict travel and other movement. They don't like usual people getting together and challenging them or even simply disagreeing with them. Americans went down that road under the Bush Government but now it's the holier-than-thou Democrats eagerly endorsing covid-19 inspired overreach. Be aware.

 

[MoskvaRed]

Well, I definitely appreciate your reply. But, after every impactful traumatic incident in human history, life is altered going forward. As I stated, our lives may only be changed minutely by having to get an extra vaccine or quick covid tests before we get on an airplane or it could be changed to levels unimaginable. I tend to think that the changes will be closer to the former, but to think that everyone will be able to reset to their life pre-pandemic is simply Pollyanna-ish.

Just admitting to this obvious fact isn’t me trying to come across as a fear monger or doom sayer, it’s just common sense. Look at the after effects of 9/11, our lives were irreparably changed especially regarding air travel. To think that this current traumatic event won’t have similar lasting impact is just silly. I’m not panicking, I’m just staying a simple fact.

I think it is accelerating trends that were already prominent (the decline of high street shopping, the switch to working from home, generational inequality) but I don’t see any major new long- term impacts at this stage. After all, given the low mortality rates, you would not expect it to have the same kind of socio-economic impact as the Black Death. It would be nice if it led the West to reassess its relations with China but I won’t hold my breath on that one.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I see your point, thanks for your reply. I also wanted to express myself in that lengthy way as there is something 'off' about significant parts of the media reporting on covid-19 as well as the other agendas being pushed. Authorities and authoritarianism never waste a crisis.

I'd also like to point out that the 'inevitability' depends on how far people are willing to go to be servile and accept everything at face value while daily life shows us that now it is becoming clearer that covid-19 is being over-hyped in some aspects and it is being used in a social engineering sense. The constant mention of infections is never matched by pointing out that people are being continually tested everywhere and had this been implemented for other viruses such as swine flu and influenza in its different strains, those viruses too would have shown up in large numbers.

Again, watch the corporations like big pharma in the USA. A lot of the hype and over-hype is to do with cold hard finances and all the corporations like Mastercard and BHP and the other assorted 'models of democracy and ethical practice' are using covid-19 as the means to an end. The re-set economically as well as the usual 'elites' and their pursuit of more and more influence and power in order to re-make socio-economic structures.

A useful fact to keep in mind that tyrannies in history of all ages seek to restrict travel and other movement. They don't like usual people getting together and challenging them or even simply disagreeing with them. Americans went down that road under the Bush Government but now it's the holier-than-thou Democrats eagerly endorsing covid-19 inspired overreach. Be aware.

Uh oh. We got a live one here...

 

[Neo_Mufc]

I believe this lockdown will fair worse considering it doesn't feel like people are going to take it at all serious.

I'm in London. We are day 5 in tier 2. I've had 1 invite to a friend's house and my mum wants to go visit my sister in a different city altogether.

I see kids in the park groups of 10 playing. Roads are looking a lot busier.

 

[Penna]

Anyone else finding they can't get a GP appointment in England, for something that can't be dealt with by phone or video call? My sister has had a painful ear for about a fortnight, she spoke to her GP who told her to put olive oil drops in it. This hasn't helped. She tried to get an appointment to actually have a GP look in her ear, and the receptionist refused to give her one. When she asked the receptionist what she should do, the answer was "look it up on Google" (seriously, that's what she said).

This is a very large practice with multiple doctors and thousands of patients. She's now going to pay to see a private audiology/ear-syringing service.

 

[calodo2003]

I think it is accelerating trends that were already prominent (the decline of high street shopping, the switch to working from home, generational inequality) but I don’t see any major new long- term impacts at this stage. After all, given the low mortality rates, you would not expect it to have the same kind of socio-economic impact as the Black Death. It would be nice if it led the West to reassess its relations with China but I won’t hold my breath on that one.

For me, the issue could ultimately lie in how the medical field, especially hospitals, is impacted if they are overwhelmed by cases of the virus, the reduction in simple medical & social services that could result from hospitals, etc. being flooded with covid patients could be more important than the mortality. We’ve been at the cusp of some severe challenges with hospitalizations in the states before & we unfortunately are trending back that way now. The mortality rate & the number of deaths is important & sensationalist, but that may not be the most important long term impact from the virus.

I too don’t think that the societal impact will be like the result of the Black Death, but there will be some permanent changes. Just like being forced to wear seatbelts, the changes won't necessarily be über-negative & restrictive.

 

[calodo2003]

I see your point, thanks for your reply. I also wanted to express myself in that lengthy way as there is something 'off' about significant parts of the media reporting on covid-19 as well as the other agendas being pushed. Authorities and authoritarianism never waste a crisis.

I'd also like to point out that the 'inevitability' depends on how far people are willing to go to be servile and accept everything at face value while daily life shows us that now it is becoming clearer that covid-19 is being over-hyped in some aspects and it is being used in a social engineering sense. The constant mention of infections is never matched by pointing out that people are being continually tested everywhere and had this been implemented for other viruses such as swine flu and influenza in its different strains, those viruses too would have shown up in large numbers.

Again, watch the corporations like big pharma in the USA. A lot of the hype and over-hype is to do with cold hard finances and all the corporations like Mastercard and BHP and the other assorted 'models of democracy and ethical practice' are using covid-19 as the means to an end. The re-set economically as well as the usual 'elites' and their pursuit of more and more influence and power in order to re-make socio-economic structures.

A useful fact to keep in mind that tyrannies in history of all ages seek to restrict travel and other movement. They don't like usual people getting together and challenging them or even simply disagreeing with them. Americans went down that road under the Bush Government but now it's the holier-than-thou Democrats eagerly endorsing covid-19 inspired overreach. Be aware.

We obviously agree on a lot more than what our brief interaction has shown. Difficult to argue with much of your missive. Thankfully I saw through the Bush horseshit & am not endorsing the overreach of those in my party. That we as a worldwide culture will have our lives altered going forward by this virus is what I’m saying. Hopefully it will never get this too bad to where even more severe measures need to be enacted, but, as a worldwide culture, we might need to have to have some privileges restricted for the greater good. Hopefully where the public perception needle stops is at a point where people of disparate ideologies can agree on measures that benefit more than just ourselves.

 

[ryansgirl]

I’m sorry that flies in conflict with your apparent political ideology

Oh, I just saw that.

I'm a rational human being who doesn't like censorship and propaganda in the media by both sides of the political spectrum. I also believe in civil liberties and have always been opposed to fascism and its expression in the corporate state which both sides of the political spectrum accept generally. The current trend of the non-conservative side cheerleading for the kind of activities they were willing to criticise and sometimes oppose when not in govt is very worrying.

I'm also disturbed by the jump in the suicide rate in Japan this year compared to last year. Suicide was responsible for far more deaths than covid-19 and from what I could find out, the increase was from part time or contract workers whose hours have been cut, in some cases just about to the bone - under normal circumstances it is horrendous the way employers here can get away with breaking the law on them through sly ways to deny benefits etc - as well as younger people stressed by the constant pandemic talk and feelings of isolation.

 

[calodo2003]

Oh, I just saw that.

I'm a rational human being who doesn't like censorship and propaganda in the media by both sides of the political spectrum. I also believe in civil liberties and have always been opposed to fascism and its expression in the corporate state which both sides of the political spectrum accept generally. The current trend of the non-conservative side cheerleading for the kind of activities they were willing to criticise and sometimes oppose when not in govt is very worrying.

Again, don’t disagree with much of anything you’ve written here either. It’s sad that this debate has been co-opted by the two political ideologies & is being used to wedge the populace apart, especially in my country. The fashy tendencies here existed before covid & the civil liberties that were in harm’s way have suffered some by these tendencies. Hopefully when we are past the crux of this virus our civil liberties & privileges are only impinged upon slightly & our going about our altered lives will be as common & simple as remembering to put a seat belt on.

 

[Adamsk7]

So someone in my workplace tested positive a couple of weeks ago. We only got told today! They did isolate those that had been near him and luckily I had been WFH up until yesterday anyway. There’s been a full two weeks of tests (we have choice of weekly testing paid for by the company) with no more positives. Also my best mate reckon he may have it as his teacher wife had two pupils test positive and she now has a scratchy throat.

 

[F-Red]

The constant mention of infections is never matched by pointing out that people are being continually tested everywhere and had this been implemented for other viruses such as swine flu and influenza in its different strains, those viruses too would have shown up in large numbers.

That's a very weak viewpoint, to even consider that the virus is being over-hyped due to continual testing. With less testing you would have a higher case rate, and an increase of testing in principle will help lower the case rate as you're finding people with the virus early enough before they spread it.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Oh, I just saw that.

I'm a rational human being who doesn't like censorship and propaganda in the media by both sides of the political spectrum. I also believe in civil liberties and have always been opposed to fascism and its expression in the corporate state which both sides of the political spectrum accept generally. The current trend of the non-conservative side cheerleading for the kind of activities they were willing to criticise and sometimes oppose when not in govt is very worrying.

I'm also disturbed by the jump in the suicide rate in Japan this year compared to last year. Suicide was responsible for far more deaths than covid-19 and from what I could find out, the increase was from part time or contract workers whose hours have been cut, in some cases just about to the bone - under normal circumstances it is horrendous the way employers here can get away with breaking the law on them through sly ways to deny benefits etc - as well as younger people stressed by the constant pandemic talk and feelings of isolation.

Stressed by the “pandemic talk”? Stressed by the pandemic, you mean. Likewise the job losses.

You seem to be implying that economic hardship and psychological stress is being opportunistically foisted on young people by those in power, just because they can, while ignoring the far more obvious cause i.e. the pandemic itself.

Basically you’re on a slippery slope to cloud cuckoo conspiracy land. Be careful out there.

 

[SalfordRed18]

So someone in my workplace tested positive a couple of weeks ago. We only got told today! They did isolate those that had been near him and luckily I had been WFH up until yesterday anyway. There’s been a full two weeks of tests (we have choice of weekly testing paid for by the company) with no more positives. Also my best mate reckon he may have it as his teacher wife had two pupils test positive and she now has a scratchy throat.

Why should/would they have told you out of interest?

 

[Adamsk7]

Why should/would they have told you out of interest?

I dunno, I just expected some more transparency seeing as they’ve known for a good two weeks now - sure they can find the closest people during work hours easily enough but I doubt they know the minutia of who he’s been in contact with. I guess we’ve never had a situation like this before so my mind was telling me one thing of what we would see if we had a positive case and the reality was a bit different. I’m not saying it was a negative experience, guess I just expected more of a hullabaloo than we got!

 

[calodo2003]

So someone in my workplace tested positive a couple of weeks ago. We only got told today! They did isolate those that had been near him and luckily I had been WFH up until yesterday anyway. There’s been a full two weeks of tests (we have choice of weekly testing paid for by the company) with no more positives. Also my best mate reckon he may have it as his teacher wife had two pupils test positive and she now has a scratchy throat.

Did they inform the coworkers who were working in the office before or was everyone informed after two weeks?

 

[redshaw]

France with 41,622 cases today. 162 deaths.

 

[Giggzinho]

Anyone else finding they can't get a GP appointment in England, for something that can't be dealt with by phone or video call? My sister has had a painful ear for about a fortnight, she spoke to her GP who told her to put olive oil drops in it. This hasn't helped. She tried to get an appointment to actually have a GP look in her ear, and the receptionist refused to give her one. When she asked the receptionist what she should do, the answer was "look it up on Google" (seriously, that's what she said).

This is a very large practice with multiple doctors and thousands of patients. She's now going to pay to see a private audiology/ear-syringing service.

My friend had a similar issue. He manager to get a zoom call kind of appointment. Was in absolute agony with an ear ‘infection’ and both ears blocked. Anyway, he went to a professional ear cleaner and they cleared out both of his ears with some microsuction machine. Back to normal the day after. Set him back £50 for both ears but beats the excruciating pain he was in. He couldn’t even hear on the drive to the ear cleaners!

 

[Nytram Shakes]

I believe this lockdown will fair worse considering it doesn't feel like people are going to take it at all serious.

I'm in London. We are day 5 in tier 2. I've had 1 invite to a friend's house and my mum wants to go visit my sister in a different city altogether.

I see kids in the park groups of 10 playing. Roads are looking a lot busier.

yeah, the whole were in it together thing just about held up for 1 lockdown, now people have had a nice sit at home watched telly they aren't ready to accept another especially one were there is less government funding for them to do nothing.

 

[0le]

Anyone else finding they can't get a GP appointment in England, for something that can't be dealt with by phone or video call? My sister has had a painful ear for about a fortnight, she spoke to her GP who told her to put olive oil drops in it. This hasn't helped. She tried to get an appointment to actually have a GP look in her ear, and the receptionist refused to give her one. When she asked the receptionist what she should do, the answer was "look it up on Google" (seriously, that's what she said).

This is a very large practice with multiple doctors and thousands of patients. She's now going to pay to see a private audiology/ear-syringing service.

My local GP surgery has been like this long before the pandemic. I wrote a complaint on the NHS website and it did not get a reply, but at least I recorded the complaint.

 

[Dan_F]

Has it been the case that people in Manchester haven’t been able to meet other households in pubs/restaurants for the last 2/3 months? Or was it just the same 10pm rules as everywhere else?

Only asking as I keep reading today that Manchester has effectively been in tier 2 restrictions for months.

 

[Jippy]

Damn, curfew and more stringent mask requirements in Cyprus, where we're meant to be going a week on Saturday.

https://cyprus-mail.com/2020/10/22/...e-worn-outside-curfew-in-paphos-and-limassol/

 

[K Stand Knut]

Has it been the case that people in Manchester haven’t been able to meet other households in pubs/restaurants for the last 2/3 months? Or was it just the same 10pm rules as everywhere else?

Only asking as I keep reading today that Manchester has effectively been in tier 2 restrictions for months.

I think so but I’m not going to lie. I just keep doing what I’m doing until someone tells me I’m not allowed to.

I don’t really have a clue what the rules are

 

[Bosws87]

Has it been the case that people in Manchester haven’t been able to meet other households in pubs/restaurants for the last 2/3 months? Or was it just the same 10pm rules as everywhere else?

Only asking as I keep reading today that Manchester has effectively been in tier 2 restrictions for months.

No household mixing unless outside.