Or they are supremely confident.
SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)
- Thread starter Don't Kill Bill
- Start date
it's better to mass manufacture loads of vaccines, worst case scenario you've wasted a bunch of expensive stuff best case you save loads of people
this should also be the case for basically a lot of metamedicinal decisions even outside pandemics, see how hard the lack of PPE has fecked us all
this should also be the case for basically a lot of metamedicinal decisions even outside pandemics, see how hard the lack of PPE has fecked us all
I think they know what they are doing. I think they are confident about it.
Hi there, it sounds like you are a healthcare professional! If you are, thank you for all that you do.
Just very quickly if you can, do you think the Nightingale was an appropriate use of the healthcare budget if the target population for its use was indeed so small? Is this population projected to get bigger in a few weeks or do you think it will almost never be used to its full extent (4000 patients)? In that case, should the government have built a smaller centre and repurposed the budget for key ITU improvements to cope better, or was there no scope for that?
Just for your info, I am a medical writer and am currently working on a project related to the economic impact of COVID-19 on healthcare budgets, so thanks a lot for your insight. If you are not a HCP, feel free to give your opinion anyway
A colleague of mine passed the medical for this two weeks ago & he starts next week.
They must be so confident to order manufacturing it now.
They're about 80% confident of success they say, and given their approach is similar to vaccines that they've produced successfully to combat some diseases before.
They really do need to change. China has basically fecked the entire world in the backside.
@Pogue Mahone either be quicker or slower with your deletes in future please
I'm a GP trainee/junior doctor working in Leicester, was working in Psychiatry but re-deployed to A&E and medical covid wards. I'm also a biomedical scientist. I believe Nightingale was appropriate from the numbers we were seeing/anticipating but there were alternative avenues explored that I think would have been sufficient such as converting private hospitals, community hospitals into covid wards for overflow in addition to theatres used for elective surgical cases converted to makeshift ITU beds. I know in Leicester certainly that was an avenue being explored had we had more cases. I would have thought that for most places that would have been sufficient. I don't know whether Nightingale is logistically easier for governments and hospital trusts to build and transfer patients to.Hi there, it sounds like you are a healthcare professional! If you are, thank you for all that you do.
Just very quickly if you can, do you think the Nightingale was an appropriate use of the healthcare budget if the target population for its use was indeed so small? Is this population projected to get bigger in a few weeks or do you think it will almost never be used to its full extent (4000 patients)? In that case, should the government have built a smaller centre and repurposed the budget for key ITU improvements to cope better, or was there no scope for that?
Just for your info, I am a medical writer and am currently working on a project related to the economic impact of COVID-19 on healthcare budgets, so thanks a lot for your insight. If you are not a HCP, feel free to give your opinion anyway
In hotspots like London and Birmingham the rate of cases/hospital admissions was quite steep initially and we had no idea social distancing in terms of success rate so as a contingency given what we know about the disease in terms of ventilator dependance even in young patients who had no previous medical issues being a significant feature I can see the rationale of Nightingale hospitals.
All the people looking at the barbarism and unhygeinic conditions of a wet market should look at undercover farm and slaughterhouse videos from any country worldwide, including the US, Canada, Australia, Italy, etc.
What's also revealing is how different the reactions are when it's done in a fellow first-world country (all upvoted comments without responses)
Meat-eaters who cry about Chinese animals disgust me.
What's also revealing is how different the reactions are when it's done in a fellow first-world country (all upvoted comments without responses)
from this video in Italy.
Meat-eaters who cry about Chinese animals disgust me.
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I dare say it's not pretty in any meat production factory.
But when a country has unleashed a number of pandemics, culminating in a world affecting one with no end in sight, that's where the focus needs to be.
They are absolute cnuts. I hate moral relativism masked behind a veneer of multi culturism.
You are responsible for worse every day.
That video I linked showed widespread cannibalism of dead and dying pigs by other pigs.
Mad Cow happened by cows eating infected cows in England.
If you want to discuss markets and the meatpacking industry then start another thread. Do not take this one off-topic.
Ah shit. All hopes lie with Remdesivir then.
"What have you got to lose?"
So are we down to 136 deaths yesterday.
How so?
"I'm a smart guy" should have been the cue to move all hopes elsewhere.
No, the majority of deaths from yesterday are yet to be reported. The main swathe will usually be reported tomorrow, gradually dwindle down to a single digit stream after about a week and peter out altogether in around a fortnight.
Your life, evidently. Who’d have thought that an immune suppressant might not turn out to be a miracle cure for a viral infection?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...away-patients?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_rif_is_fun
the reason there's so few patients in nightingale is because they don't have enough nurses working there
the reason there's so few patients in nightingale is because they don't have enough nurses working there
There are a few quieter trials going on which are more promising than this ever was. Yes Remdivisir is the earliest of them, hopefully. Proper results expected next week-ish.
But then the conclusions in the article are quite different to what the headline suggests
A senior official at a London trust said: “It’s a white elephant. When it was conceived a month ago we were facing the prospect of hospitals in London being overrun and mass burial sites like in New York. We thought that London would be Italy and there would be more patients needing level 3 intensive care treatment by this stage.
“But the expected doubling every three days in the number of patients needing to be admitted to ICU didn’t happen. London hospitals doubled, tripled and in some cases quadrupled the capacity of their ICUs, so still have spare capacity, which means the Nightingale hasn’t been needed.”
An NHS London spokesperson said: “The most important point about staff at the Nightingale is that thanks to their care and expertise, patients in that hospital are being successfully treated, discharged and ultimately having their life saved.
“There remains spare capacity in the critical care network across the capital to look after all coronavirus patients and others who need our care, and while it is incredibly reassuring for both staff and patients to have backup capacity at the Nightingale to alleviate pressure on ICU departments where needed, patients can be transferred to other hospitals in the city if they are better placed to receive them at that time – as is always the case.”
Its a weird article but I think what it’s trying to say ultimately is that while there is a nurse shortage at the nightingale the hospital infrastructure in London has been able to cope.
The South African prez just addressed the nation. He's seemingly reading from the same script. All over the world leaders are moving towards re-opening economies. We just don't have the stomachs for 90-day lockdowns.
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Bit confused by this. I thought the deterioration from covid19 was gradual, even if it can very quick. So surely as a doctor, he would have known he was rapidly descending into the danger zone, and could have messaged a medical colleague or ambulance for help?
Or can covid19 also disable you very quickly, like a stroke or heart attack can?
Brilliant news, man. Fingers crossed for you all in Italy.
Great breakdown, cheers. The graph is encouraging. Although seeing figures leaping to 800+ today demoralises, it's good to see that in minute detail things are slowly improving.
There's a bit of everything man. Some mongrel types are bred specifically for the meat trade, sometimes its random strays. Especially in poor areas, people catch and eat something that crosses their path. When I lived in China it was quite common to see some old fisherman sitting next to the river in the city centre with a big, fecking mean looking alligator snapping type turtle on a 'leash' made of string, looking to flog it. Basically, an accidental fishing catch, and a chance for a quick buck.
Great news. It still amazes me how infectious this disease is. 95% + of those ~3000 cases were clearly caught during lockdown.
So, lockdowns work, but all hell will break loose once they end? Doesn't sound good to me at all.
I see. Considering we activated the private hospitals AND built the Nightingale hospitals, it sounds like a hell of an overestimation. To be fair, it was probably the right thing to do. Lives come first.
However, this level of emergency spending will probably impact on healthcare budget in the long-term. I think we are likely to see a reduction in the approval of new orphan drugs and it will be a lot harder for these novel drugs to get market access approval from NICE (with the exception of COVID-19 treatments of course). That said, I do expect the budget to improve emergency infrastructure to increase, and some experts also think we will have a refocus on budget on anti-viral medications. I'm personally not sure how useful anti-virals are though, they are rather expensive and we could potentially wipe out our entire budget on that considering the scale of Covid-19. But let's see how Gilead's Remdesivir performs in the PIII trials.
Hopefully when a new vaccine arrives, the government will have enough money to buy/manufacture the required amount to immunise the UK population. Rishi Sunak seems to have a money tree though, so fingers crossed.
Anyway, thanks very much again!
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Those people would have died wherever they were, they were all hospitalised and in ICUs.
The Nightingale hospital is there in case it gets worse and to allow hospitals to resume normal activities and get Covid wards back to other uses, with a place to send any overflows.
Actually wouldn't be shocked if the UK extended again after this current extension, with a view of studying how other nations coped with loosened restrictions.
Whoa, this is like information gold dust. Cheers!
Its difficult to say because there are different phases during infection but there definitely is a fairly dramatic subjective experience of worsening symptoms which some patients unfortunately don't know if to act on or not thinking it might get better.
Bit confused by this. I thought the deterioration from covid19 was gradual, even if it can very quick. So surely as a doctor, he would have known he was rapidly descending into the danger zone, and could have messaged a medical colleague or ambulance for help?
Or can covid19 also disable you very quickly, like a stroke or heart attack can?
We know from our colleagues in the Netherlands that we should be advising our patients to not just look for breathlessness but mainly extreme fatigue which corresponds most to being unwell with the disease. I've seen some young patients with incredibly low saturations of oxygen which I didn't think human beings could function on.
There are aspects of this disease that can be quite disabling, myocarditis for example. But the message is clear, this disease affects young people, middle aged people and old people in different ways. There are more young people with severe versions of the disease than any other viral illness I've experienced. Makes the idea of "herd immunity" really dangerous still in my opinion when you consider the loss of life and the morbidity.
My cousin was one of the first patients in Birmingham to be admitted with COVID19 into ITU, he is in his 30s and a marathon runner with no previous medical issues, he was admitted in March and was only recently discharged after three failed extubations and reintubations with a tracheotomy inserted to prevent retubing. Even all of his blood gases and organs being fine, it was just so hard to wean him off the ventilation, and was without any of the many complications that patient get with this disease. He is finding it impossible to sleep due to the sedation withdrawal, has PTSD symptoms but is gradually getting back together.
I appreciate all of those who have had worries regarding the economy of our country and the future implications but erring on the side of lockdown, gradual relaxation of measures, strict contact tracing, mass testing, isolation, shielding. I know its difficult but it more and more people knew how much of monster this thing was in terms of its potential to create so much suffering for so many people they would err on the side of minimising its spread at least for the forseeable future till we can figure out the long game a bit better.
Interesting to read that the state of Missouri has launched a legal action against China for loss of life and economic damages.
Good luck to them and hopefully they will be successful.
Then the fun will begin.
Good luck to them and hopefully they will be successful.
Then the fun will begin.
I believe a phased re-opening of the economy is on the cards. It seems to be all the rage now.
It was always the plan in my opinion. I'm expected us to release measures around May 20-25th. Personally I think the plan was always a 2month lockdown but if he'd come and said that straight off the bat people would have lost their heads - 50% through mental breakdowns and depression and 50% through thinking 'sod THAT' and defying the rules from day one.
3 + 3 + 2 was always the most likely for me, anyway.
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