SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

Bastian said:
OK, I get your default position. But can you speak to the actual information. Why is there a rise in excess mortality, especially young people. Why are huge blood clots being found that weren't before? I'm just interested in people's take on that, not the messengers really.
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Maybe it's something to do with the funeral director? He's got skin in the game.
 
WI_Red said:
Witnessed what? People treating randoms on the internet, like I don't know... a funeral director, as experts in areas they have no training?

The fringe antivax lunatics were always a dangerous nuisance, but the cover they were given by politicians who used the COVID vaccine as an election issue has spurred them, and their new conspiratorial conscripts, to wildly dangerous heights.

The damage done to people's faith in medical science is abominable and I fear that revolutionary strides in therapeutic and prophylactic mRNA based treatments may be stunted, if not killed.
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It's horrific and they always seem to forget that COVID, in of itself is damaging to the heart etc. Brutal illness.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
If you’re interested in learning about disease epidemiology and public health there’s a load of medical journals you can wade through. Here’s one, for starters. These are where you find legitimate research on any meaningful new morbidity or mortality trends.

What I definitely would not recommend is watching a YouTube video hosted by a known crank, in which the “expert” he’s asking about this supposed public health crisis is a fecking funeral director!
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I appreciate the link. I was a bit hesitant to go into this thread with anything counter to accepted opinion as I wasn't keen on the condescension, but I will read through what you linked here. Cheers.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
That guy in the video is a total crank. An interesting case study of someone who started off well intentioned and had some relevant training but the lure of the YouTube grift took him more and more out of his depth. To the point where he was consistently talking ill informed conspiratorial bollox on topics he knew nothing about. I’ll watch this video later but it’s a safe bet it’s more of the same.
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I remember really liking his videos at the start - they were very simple and informative at an hysterical time. Around 6 months after the vaccines he went totally mad - you could always sense he an undertone from him - very anti-EU etc but it was well hidden for a while.
 
@Bastian

Here's some specific information re excess deaths in the EU, pre and post covid.

Excess mortality in the EU during COVID-19 pandemic
During the month of March 2020, the number of deaths rose rapidly in some European countries when compared with the average number of deaths in the period from 2016 to 2019. The COVID-19 pandemic affected every part of the EU; however, its impact was not evenly spread. The highest peaks of a higher-than-average number of deaths during the first recording of COVID-19 cases in March-April 2020 were initially recorded in Italy and Spain, followed by France, Belgium and the Netherlands. During the period between March 2020 and February 2021, the EU experienced two waves of excess mortality: the first between March and May 2020 (reaching a 25.2 % excess rate in April) and a second between August 2020 and the end of the year (reaching a 40.0 % excess rate in November, the highest rate for the whole year). In this second wave, excess mortality rose in all EU Member States, this time with a geographical prevalence in the eastern part of Europe (Poland, Bulgaria and Slovenia reached an excess of more than 90.0 % in November 2020). Excess mortality reached a third peak in April 2021 (20.9 %) then decreased to a low of 5.7 % in July 2021, with some countries reaching a total number of deaths close to - or even below - the 2016-2019 baseline. During summer 2021, the downward trend reversed again and the EU rate increased in September to reach 12.8 % over the baseline period. Finally, in autumn-winter 2021, there was a fourth wave of excess mortality, this time with the EU rate reaching 26.6 % in November and 23.7 % in December 2021.

In 2022, excess mortality in the EU generally stayed at lower levels, at around 10 % except for July-August and December 2022. In July and August, when heatwaves affected parts of Europe, there were respectively 58 145 and 52 479 additional deaths. The excess mortality for these two months was exceptionally high (17.1 % of the average number for the same period in 2016-2019 for July and 13.9 % for August). In December 2022, excess mortality was the highest of the year and stood at 20.3 %. In 2023, excess mortality saw major decreases. In January 2023, it was 4.2 % of the average number for the same period in 2016-2019. In February 2023, for the first time since February 2020 (pre-COVID-19 pandemic period), there were no excess deaths and the indicator fell below the baseline to -1.1 %. In March and April 2023, excess mortality rose slightly to 1.3 % and 4.2 % respectively. In May 2023, when the World Health Organization declared an end to the COVID-19 public-health emergency, the excess mortality in the EU was 3.6 %.
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Worth a read if you're curious about this topic. From a legitimate source and more digestible than public health journals!
 
Murder on Zidane's Floor said:
It's horrific and they always seem to forget that COVID, in of itself is damaging to the heart etc. Brutal illness.
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Absolutely. One also needs to look at the death rate before and after vaccines were introduced. It’s night and day.
I am sure that there will have been a group of people adversely affected by vaccines, it was new to the market so always had that risk. Likewise I sure that there are another group who blame the vaccine but most likely had damage caused by Covid or something else.
at the end of the day governments were really damned if they did or damned if they didn’t on this issue
 
Mickeza said:
I remember really liking his videos at the start - they were very simple and informative at an hysterical time. Around 6 months after the vaccines he went totally mad - you could always sense he an undertone from him - very anti-EU etc but it was well hidden for a while.
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Yeah, he was a good teacher. I think that might have been his day job? He was a nurse who was involved in CPD, I think? His descent into madness was grimly fascinating. I put it down to the classic interplay between online grifters and their followers with more clicks and traction the more extreme their views but good point about him being an anti EU brexiteer beneath it all. That must had added fuel to the fire.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Yeah, he was a good teacher. I think that might have been his day job? He was a nurse who was involved in CPD, I think? His descent into madness was grimly fascinating. I put it down to the classic interplay between online grifters and their followers with more clicks and traction the more extreme their views but good point about him being an anti EU brexiteer beneath it all. That must had added fuel to the fire.
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Likely the algorithm trapping people into an ever-descending info spiral of stuff that just triggers confirmation bias.
 
golden_blunder said:
Absolutely. One also needs to look at the death rate before and after vaccines were introduced. It’s night and day.
I am sure that there will have been a group of people adversely affected by vaccines, it was new to the market so always had that risk. Likewise I sure that there are another group who blame the vaccine but most likely had damage caused by Covid or something else.
at the end of the day governments were really damned if they did or damned if they didn’t on this issue
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Yeah, since I got CV19 in Mar 22, the entire year was a write-off, I've never felt anything like it and was at times stuck in bed, convinced I was dying/having a heart attack. A brutal feeling and I still feel shit/can't exercise.
 
golden_blunder said:
Sorry to hear that. What’s your quack done, or said?
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Erm, nothing.

I collapsed with chest pains in a mall about three weeks post-COVID Covid and they took me to a local hospital, ECG's fine, blood pressure high. Then it happened again, and again and again. Just feeling the weirdest feelings, almost like falling, like internal the pressure is dropping and I'm almost slipping away. Very scary.

Booked me in for CT scan, heart x-ray, echocardiogram, adominable scan etc, showed nothing, calcium score zero, did barium swallow as well. Only thing was hypertension/high BP.

Nothing else was given except "long-covid", no blood clots etc. Took 7 months but then started feeling better but in reality I can't exercise as I feel really weird, just fecking odd when I elevate my heart rate. 2023 was much better but I can't really exert myself and my BP is still high.

Sorry for the diatribe :lol:
 
Plenty of "light" reading here on Cell Press and here on The Lancet but I'm n

Disclaimer: I work for the publisher of these journals but I'm not biased, mainly because it's mostly Double-Dutch to me :smirk:
 
It still amazes me that people will point at excess mortality rates after a global pandemic of a potentially deadly illness that infected a billion people and think that the killer is the vaccine.
 
decorativeed said:
It still amazes me that people will point at excess mortality rates after a global pandemic of a potentially deadly illness that infected a billion people and think that the killer is the vaccine.
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Andrew Wakefield has a lot to answer for, his MMR stuff is what brought vaccine craziness to the masses attention
 
A friend who we hadn't seen for a while as they were back in the UK has had long COVID since the early days of the pandemic. It likely caused him to have a heart attack last year and now he has persistent tiredness, balance problems, tinnitus and various other symptoms. It is easy to forget that the few and rare side effects of vaccines are far less common or severe than from actually getting long covid from an infection.
 
Wibble said:
A friend who we hadn't seen for a while as they were back in the UK has had long COVID since the early days of the pandemic. It likely caused him to have a heart attack last year and now he has persistent tiredness, balance problems, tinnitus and various other symptoms. It is easy to forget that the few and rare side effects of vaccines are far less common or severe than from actually getting long covid from an infection.
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Is your friend @Murder on Zidane's Floor ?
 
Wibble said:
A friend who we hadn't seen for a while as they were back in the UK has had long COVID since the early days of the pandemic. It likely caused him to have a heart attack last year and now he has persistent tiredness, balance problems, tinnitus and various other symptoms. It is easy to forget that the few and rare side effects of vaccines are far less common or severe than from actually getting long covid from an infection.
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That seems a bit of a stretch?
 
Wibble said:
His doctors seem to think it is likely, as does his wife who is a medical doctor. Hard to be 100% certain of causation of course.

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/how-sars-cov-2-contributes-heart-attacks-strokes#:~:text=The findings suggest that SARS,to heart attack or stroke
https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/articles/heart-problems-after-covid
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I’m sure you could find similar links between the covid vaccine and cardiac disorders. I’d still argue that if someone has an MI there’s an excellent chance that was in the post regardless. It takes years and years to build up coronary plaques.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I’m sure you could find similar links between the covid vaccine and cardiac disorders. I’d still argue that if someone has an MI there’s an excellent chance that was in the post regardless. It takes years and years to build up coronary plaques.
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But it does seem that it can accelerate things significantly in some cases.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I’m sure you could find similar links between the covid vaccine and cardiac disorders. I’d still argue that if someone has an MI there’s an excellent chance that was in the post regardless. It takes years and years to build up coronary plaques.
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Not always, I have a rogue gene (one of the Lama family) that causes plaque buildup. Despite having a quadruple bypass a few years ago I have 2 blocked again.
 
Sylar said:
They admitted it can cause rare blood clots right?
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About three years ago. It's believed there may have been around 80 deaths in the UK associated with it, and maybe 10 times that number of cases of VITT. About 100 million doses of it were used in the UK.
 
jojojo said:
About three years ago. It's believed there may have been around 80 deaths in the UK associated with it, and maybe 10 times that number of cases of VITT. About 100 million doses of it were used in the UK.
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I meant the recent admission. I had a quick look as I remember seeing it mentioned recently:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-blood-clots-b2536898.html

“It is admitted that the AZ vaccine can, in very rare cases, cause TTS. The causal mechanism is not known,” the company said in the court documents in February, The Telegraph reported.
“Further, TTS can also occur in the absence of the AZ vaccine (or any vaccine). Causation in any individual case will be a matter for expert evidence,” it added.

The admission by AstraZeneca runs counter to the company’s insistence in 2023 that it would “not accept that TTS is caused by the vaccine at a generic level”.


The World Health Organization confirmed that Covishield can have life-threatening side effects. “A very rare adverse event called Thrombosis with Thrombocytopenia Syndrome, involving unusual and severe blood clotting events associated with low platelet counts, has been reported after vaccination with this vaccine.”
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jojojo said:
About three years ago. It's believed there may have been around 80 deaths in the UK associated with it, and maybe 10 times that number of cases of VITT. About 100 million doses of it were used in the UK.
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Yep - 80 deaths out of 100 million doses. Which is next to nothing compared to the consequences of not vaccinating.
 
I'm one of the unfortunate people whose immune system reacted badly to the first AstraZeneca covid vaccine. My red blood cell count went super low and for a period of time I was at high risk of stroke. My body was covered in really big bruises. If it wasn't for my Haematologist's help, I feel my body would have shut down through my blood going wonky. With all the bruises I looked like I'd been run over by a truck. Anyhow, I now suffer with chronic vaccine induced thrombocytopenia purpora (VIITP). There's a lot worse off than me that's for sure so I'm not moaning or anything.
 
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