Saudi signing wave: What are the implications? Is it weakening the Premier League?

[Iker Quesadillas]

Of course but 20-30 players is just the first window they’ve ever really committed like this. There are 2 windows a season so I imagine the numbers will only increase. Like I said afew weeks back I imagine they could become the first stop for South American young talent because of the Cash soon enough and their ability to hoover up lots of youngsters from there and gamble more than most on their development. It’s feasible in 5 years time their prospects as a serious league could really start to show fruition that’s all I’m suggesting.

Many of the players are on the wrong side of 30 so it's unclear what kind of contribution they'll be making on the pitch in even 1 years' time. In addition, it's not a given that every player will settle well there and want to stay. That's why 20-30 is a low number.

 

[Mickeza]

Why not? They've got trillions.

To spend on paying footballers?

 

[justsomebloke]

What players of note that aren’t winding down their careers are there? Henderson? Telles? Ronaldo? I ain’t tuning in to watch walking football

Been named multiple times in tvis thread. And they don't care if you're tuning in or not. It's not for you.

 

[Rood]

The only thing that would make the Saudi sides a true competitor to Europe is if current competition formats changed to allow them to compete directly against European sides. If they really want it to and throw enough money at it, eventually that probably will happen, but there's no real sign of it yet.

Well there is because the more eastern ownership there is of European teams the more influence there will be, but it's still a bit of a way off.

It's inevitable eventually really. Football is a global sport and Europe basically hogs all of the best bits of it.

FIFA are already expanding the Club World Cup, it's likely to grow as a competition over time

Even before this spending spree, it was often a Saudi team (sometimes Japan or Korea) winning the AFC Champions League and going to the CWC

 

[TheLord]

Just wait till they bribe FIFA to get the WC in 2038. It will also be about time the world moves away from oil. The entire bubble will burst.

 

[Superden]

why are you all talking about saudi clubs possibly being allowed to play in the CL, surely as weve seen with golf, they will just take over the competition. and most people will go along with it.

 

[gajender]

To this, and several other posters suggesting the danger line and ultimate aim is access to the Champions League, or even membership of UEFA.

Why, necessarily? These are the big things in football right now, but that can change. I don't think it makes much sense for them to think that way. More plausibly, they are aiming to build a top global product domestically - which would contribute to the general life quality and also prestige of their country in a more direct way than being allowed to participate in European competitions. If they build a league on par with good European leagues in quality and big name visibility, why would they need that? They'll be watched and followed throughout the region, and maybe in Africa and the rest of Asia too.

We no longer live in a world where you're only as relevant as people in our part of the world think you are. Global prestige isn't defined in London or Paris anymore - why shouldn't Saudi investors be thinking about their domestic and regional prestige instead? They can afford to build their own product without giving a hoot about what you, I or anyone else in Europe thinks about that. Which is fine as such, but I'd quite like that to not happen at the expense of a European system that is no longer in a strong position to take care of its own interests - among other things because of the strength of Gulf money within European club football and its governing bodies. So, maybe we need to start thinking about this not in terms of them buying into our system because they think it gives them prestige to be associated with our brand, but rather as the strategic acquisition of assets with a view to facilitate the building of something of their own?

I actually agree with most of what you Have said I was thinking more in line that they could eventually create such a product where their league's representation might be welcomed and required by their European Counterparts for its breakaway Competition. But it would certainly require them to have sustained investment and this strategy should only be phase one .

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

Neves, Brozovic, Fofana, Jota, Malcom, Saint-Maximin, Milikovic-Savic are all below 30 and in their prime. Jota is actually below 25 even. Fabinho and Mitrovic who are about to join are also late 20s / early 30s and arguably close to their prime as well.

Firmino, Benzema, Kante are at the stage of their careers where they could play for top European clubs as well. Kante maybe not so much due to his injury concerns but he's still recognized as a top player. Henderson could easily play in England for another 2-3 years.

Brozovic is 30. Without him the list of under 30 players is, outside of SMS, pretty underwhelming. I even had to google one of them (Jota).

I'm a bit less positive on the over-30s too.

 

[noodlehair]

FIFA are already expanding the Club World Cup, it's likely to grow as a competition over time

Even before this spending spree, it was often a Saudi team (sometimes Japan or Korea) winning the AFC Champions League and going to the CWC

It'll take a long time for it to be taken seriously though.

I think eventually we'll have a version of the CL with teams outside of Europe involved. Whether that's a version of the club world cup or something new. More likely the latter I think because I just don't see FIFA (or UEFA for that matter) being savvy enough to get it right before its forced out of their hands. The Super League would have grown legs if the format wasn't so dumb and unattractive to pretty much all football fans.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

But Mahrez- Benzema - Mane is a great front three and in Brozovic, Savic and Henderson they’ve got a range of CL level midfielders.

Benzema had injury troubles all year and even if he recovers from them, he's 35 years old and turns 36 in December. Mane wasn't very good last season, that's why they're trying to get rid of him.

 

[711]

FIFA are already expanding the Club World Cup, it's likely to grow as a competition over time

Even before this spending spree, it was often a Saudi team (sometimes Japan or Korea) winning the AFC Champions League and going to the CWC

We are just very lucky we can depend on the top Fifa people not to take cash to do a deal with the Saudis even if they were offered tens of millions each under the table.

Or even more, thinking about how much they're willing to spend on Mbappe.

 

[Murder on Zidanes Floor]

It... it is?

What parts of Europe specifically?

France is the most visited country in the world. Eight of the top ten most visited countries in the world are in Europe.

We have the best standard of living, it's the safest continent and the wealthiest per capita.

The default business language in the world is English. European Latin languages span like fifty countries and several hundred million people.

All the best luxury, aspirational goods are European; Rolex, Louis Vuitton, Ferrari, Mont Blanc, Hermes, Balmain, Lamborghini, Patek, Mercedes. Champagne is made here. The best food emanates from here.

Everyone wants to come here or holiday here.

I would argue the US has that trophy.

Nah, they spend their money on European goods and visit here in their droves.

 

[TheNewEra]

Theyll reduce salaries soon I think, this is just the stage where they overpay like city when they lured players at the start.

Won't be a top 5 league for a long time though, no serious players go there for prestige it lacks history like the CL or the top leagues that takes decades to build

 

[Duane Dibley]

I mean I haven’t kept up with a lot of the signings as there is more and more every day. They might not have a top four quality left back for example.


But Mahrez- Benzema - Mane is a great front three and in Brozovic, Savic and Henderson they’ve got a range of CL level midfielders.

Do Mahrez, Benzema and Mane even play for the same club?

The Saudi League may have signed all these so-called big name players but how many people could name any of the clubs?

Now that may suit those supporters who follow a particular player rather than a team but won't replace European leagues where people support a club irrespective of the players playing for them.

It reminds me more of the days of New York Cosmos and Tampa Bay Rowdies who had one big name player like Pele or George Best or Franz Beckenbauer and 10 other no-marks.

 

[Red in STL]

I won't hold my breath on it, would need a massive change, almost a whole generation will need to pass id imagine. Im not very schooled on this though just from the outside looking in, and that they are top 3 for executions in the world.

Couple of pals in that area tell me that a lot of people in Saudi head to Bahrain for a weekend away

The US is one of the top countries for executions as well but neither are in the same league as Iran and China

Of course it'll take a generation but they started on this a good few years back, it took Dubai 25-30 years but Saudi is starting from a higher baseline, it already has a decent infrastructure and that's only going to get better

 

[tomaldinho1]

Many of the players are on the wrong side of 30 so it's unclear what kind of contribution they'll be making on the pitch in even 1 years' time. In addition, it's not a given that every player will settle well there and want to stay. That's why 20-30 is a low number.

First they have to sign the big names - it's the players like Ronaldo and Benzema who bring fans and coverage with them (particularly the former), then you have guys who were elite to varying degrees (playing in Europe with a big club) but are either no longer starters or their age means they likely aren't getting new deals close to what they were on (Henderson, Firmino, Mendy, Kante, Koulibaly, Telles, Brozovic) and then you have the players who were kind of in limbo like Neves, Milinkovic-Savic and lots of the newer linked players like Mitrovic who are choosing between playing at a good level but likely never winning anything versus 5x their salary and still winning nothing but in a rubbish league. The numbers will keep rising, their age really doesn't matter these first few years.

 

[Rood]

It'll take a long time for it to be taken seriously though.

I think eventually we'll have a version of the CL with teams outside of Europe involved. Whether that's a version of the club world cup or something new. More likely the latter I think because I just don't see FIFA (or UEFA for that matter) being savvy enough to get it right before its forced out of their hands. The Super League would have grown legs if the format wasn't so dumb and unattractive to pretty much all football fans.

I think it could grow faster than you might think - this year is the last CWC under the old format which no one, apart from those playing, gave a shit about (and it's in Saudi Arabia unsurprisingly)

Then it moves to every 4 years as a full summer tournament with 32 teams - think that means last 4 UEFA CL winners will be there which will immediately gives it a decent TV interest, especially in the summer football drought

Imagine you then throw in Inter Miami with Messi plus Saudi team with Ronaldo/Benzema/etc - people will watch for sure

 

[MackRobinson]

Nah, they spend their money on European goods and visit here in their droves.

That's mainly well-off Americans who buy luxury European goods and take expensive European vacations. It has more to do with it being a status symbol than it comes from Europe. The average American has very little interest in visiting Europe or learning about its culture, which is a shame as far as I'm concerned.

On the other hand, the American film, tv, and music industry are ubiquitous around the world.

 

[TheNewEra]

I think it could grow faster than you might think - this year is the last CWC under the old format which no one, apart from those playing, gave a shit about (and it's in Saudi Arabia unsurprisingly)

Then it moves to every 4 years as a full summer tournament with 32 teams

It takes time to build history though, you can't look down the list of winners of the league.

Like the PL you see Liverpool and the English league in the 80s, Man Utd and Arsenal in the 90s and 2000s with Chelsea, throw Forest in too. Villa in Europe a long time ago.

Saudi can't buy that, they can't throw together propaganda and etch teams on trophies and fake players that played in the past.

You go there for money not prestige, Benzema won everything he's retiring, the other players that go are purely for money. They won't ever go to a top side and win the highest honours.

Nobody really watches the Saudi pro league in Europe since we have top leagues already it will take a long time to change.

Its just a shell league and will take a decade or so.

 

[90 + 5min]

We are clearly witnessing a major new development in International football this window: The Saudi league flexing its financial muscles, and drawing talent on a big scale. Not just damaged goods clubs are keen to unload or fading stars, but also players good enough to be a significant presence in the Premier League. And for some reason, they seem to be going for PL players more than the financially weaker other 4 big leagues.

Ruben Neves, Riyad Mahrez, Jordan Henderson, Fabinho and probably Mitrovic and St Maximin are leaving. In addition to Koulibaly, Mendy, Kante, Firmino and Telles, who all fit the more traditional Big Final Paycheck profile. CR already there, of course. We've probably not seen the last.

What does it mean? Clearly, there's strategic intent - Saudi clubs are unlikely to all individually decide the time has come to throw serious money around, and aim to build the domestic league into more of a powerhouse. Probably, the Saudi efforts to get a World Cup is one part of it. The Saudis and gulf money more generally have already invested heavily in European clubs, and have built a strong position of influence in FIFA and other governing bodies. Should European football start being concerned about a global challenge here?

There is no weakening of Premier League. It is only players towards end of their careers and those whos gametime have gone down drastically who goes there. Maybe even those with lot of injuries looking for good paycheck. I don't blame them because they can get lot of money there for few years.

 

[SirScholes]

The US is one of the top countries for executions as well but neither are in the same league as Iran and China

Of course it'll take a generation but they started on this a good few years back, it took Dubai 25-30 years but Saudi is starting from a higher baseline, it already has a decent infrastructure and that's only going to get better

Fair. Agreed USA has its max penalty, and it’s another thread maybe. But you could there is a massive difference in how it’s given out and how often
US a quick google search tells 8 years running has been under 20
Saudi executed 81 people in 1 day last year

Not sure they deserve to be in the same breath

 

[Rood]

It takes time to build history though, you can't look down the list of winners of the league.

Like the PL you see Liverpool and the English league in the 80s, Man Utd and Arsenal in the 90s and 2000s with Chelsea, throw Forest in too. Villa in Europe a long time ago.

Saudi can't buy that, they can't throw together propaganda and etch teams on trophies and fake players that played in the past.

You go there for money not prestige, Benzema won everything he's retiring, the other players that go are purely for money. They won't ever go to a top side and win the highest honours.

Nobody really watches the Saudi pro league in Europe since we have top leagues already it will take a long time to change.

Its just a shell league and will take a decade or so.

Obviously it won't happen overnight but it can grow quickly

Can't see that many in Europe taking an interest in the Saudi League, but loads watch PL in Africa, Asia etc and a % of them could surely take an interest in a league closer to home with some big players and probably at better times for TV

 

[SAFMUTD]

Right now they arent, they've taken only Neves and Saint Maximin (and possibly Mitrovic) in their prime years none of which had the possibility to go to a big club. The rest of the players are deadwood or washed out.

Also as many names as the Saudis get is not going to improve their league viewers significantly. As per my understanding arab don't tend to watch much sports as shown in Qatar's world cup and I can't imagine the Saudi league being watched worldwide. Sure you'll see one or two highlights once in a while but a full match? I just don't see it.

 

[Krny]

It's not just weakening the PL, FFS, it's weakening World football.

They're doing what City/PSG did/are doing, but applying it to a whole league.

They are basically trying to transform nothing into something.

It's making a mockery of everything that your average football fan feels about football.

That's what sky did with the EPL to be fair. Pumped it with artificially inflated tv deals at the start to make the league basically a super/money league and to leave the other leagues beneath them as the EPL teams top to bottom hoover up all the talent as they have more money.

 

[duffer]

To spend on paying footballers?

On whatever they want.

 

[noodlehair]

I think it could grow faster than you might think - this year is the last CWC under the old format which no one, apart from those playing, gave a shit about (and it's in Saudi Arabia unsurprisingly)

Then it moves to every 4 years as a full summer tournament with 32 teams - think that means last 4 UEFA CL winners will be there which will immediately gives it a decent TV interest, especially in the summer football drought

Imagine you then throw in Inter Miami with Messi plus Saudi team with Ronaldo/Benzema/etc - people will watch for sure

We'll see. In theory it could work but it needs people to take it seriously and I'm not sure that happens until its something in place of a Champions League, or integrated into the season in a similar way. I can't see the European teams taking a summer club tournament seriously when they get paid silly money just to play pre-season friendlies and have to focus on their league/European competitions in order to remain competitive. I can't see fans being as on board either. It works for a world cup because patriotism kicks in and international football is quite unique in terms of the passion, teams, etc...but after a whole club season I'm not sure I'd have the appetite to set through a 64 game club tournament where I don't care about 95% of the teams.

And lets face it Inter Miami would get mullered by any top European side that could be arsed, Messi or not, which isn't attractive viewing.

 

[CallyRed]

Where can I get a Al-Hillal shirt

 

[Red in STL]

Fair. Agreed USA has its max penalty, and it’s another thread maybe. But you could there is a massive difference in how it’s given out and how often
US a quick google search tells 8 years running has been under 20
Saudi executed 81 people in 1 day last year

Not sure they deserve to be in the same breath

There's 100's on death row in the US, it's takes forever to carry out the sentences because of appeals etc, otherwise they'd be running a lot higher numbers, not as many as Saudi but in terms of sentencing it's a lot closer than you'd think

 

[Sassy Colin]

That's what sky did with the EPL to be fair. Pumped it with artificially inflated tv deals at the start to make the league basically a super/money league and to leave the other leagues beneath them as the EPL teams top to bottom hoover up all the talent as they have more money.

Yeah, I can see that.

There's plenty that would say that Sky ruined football and others that would say the benefits outweighed the disadvantages.

However, I fail to see the benefits of the Saudi league to, well anything really.

Chelsea artificially inflated transfer fees and wages, then City did it, but even worse. This Saudi bullshit inflates wages to a ridiculous and unsustainable level, for European football clubs.

 

[AngeloHenriquez]

Wonder if they would be interested in Sancho for €100m? Lets just hope they stopped watching him after we signed him

 

[MonkeysMagic]

This will have the same impact that the Chinese league had few years back...in other words nothing!

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

Then it moves to every 4 years as a full summer tournament with 32 teams - think that means last 4 UEFA CL winners will be there which will immediately gives it a decent TV interest, especially in the summer football drought

Imagine you then throw in Inter Miami with Messi plus Saudi team with Ronaldo/Benzema/etc - people will watch for sure.

In 2025 when the 32-team Club World Cup is held, Cristiano Ronaldo will be 40, Messi will be 38, and Karim Benzema will be 37. The only one whose contract even goes up to the CWC is Messi's.

 

[Von Mistelroum]

So PSG have accepted the offer for Mmbop. Interesting to see what he'll do! He's used to playing in farmer's leagues and he does seem to like money!

 

[Champ]

Given how Kazakstan and Azerbaijan have had teams in the Europa League....

Azerbaijan are in the European Council, Kazakhstan have a strong partnership agreement with the EU,

However the relationship between the EU and Saudi Arabia is no where near the level of the two aforementioned countries, mainly down to human rights.

There's a long long way to go before UEFA would consider a Saudi team on any European tournament, it just won't happen in the current climate.

 

[Monks_United]

They could weaken the league by signing Bailly, Maguire and Fred on top of what they already have. If they were to sign those prized assets from United, then I would really consider the implication of the money being thrown about !


(quick, someone post this to some PIF guy and give them ideas)

 

[MancunianAngels]

I wonder how many of the younger players will find themselves searching for loan moves back to Europe in January 2024 and January 2026 to give themselves a better chance of going to the summer's Euros/World Cup.

 

[Rood]

In 2025 when the 32-team Club World Cup is held, Cristiano Ronaldo will be 40, Messi will be 38, and Karim Benzema will be 37. The only one whose contract even goes up to the CWC is Messi's.

It's just an example based on today - they haven't even set the qualification criteria AFAIK

The point is that this new global club tournament is coming and I have no doubt that the Saudis, MLS etc are already thinking about it

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

It's just an example based on today - they haven't even set the qualification criteria AFAIK

Wikipedia says there are already multiple clubs classified.
AFC gets 4 spots, Saudi League currently has 1 and Japan has another, so they could get 3 at best.
CONCACAF gets 4 and 2 are already taken by Mexican clubs.

 

[el3mel]

This Saudi invasion is the final nail in the coffin in this sport. Football has been dying for a long time now but this will finish the job.

 

[USREDEVIL]

The premier league has been absolutely decimated of talent. Next year i'll be watching Maguire up top with Lingard. ***Insert additional drama and overreaction as necessary to increase clicks***