Saudi sports minister gives update on buying club from Glazers

simonhch

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Yes they can. But they’re very clearly making money.
The Glazer’s will have acquired the club with an eventual exit strategy in mind. The question is when that will occur, not if. I’ve written about this in detail before but to summarise, the two key milestones they were looking to pass (to maximise value) were the monetisation If mobile streaming rights in China and India, and the formation of a European Super League. Their expectation was that costs would be controlled by (a) rigorous FFP - which prompted Woodward’s now infamous “watch this space” statement and (b) a salary cap.

These plans have largely come undone as FFP was revised and it has not prevented a massive inflation of transfer fees - which radically changes club economics. And the Super League idea looks a non-starter.

Revenue predictions, and the financial sustainability model, was based on the key assumption of an average QF participation in the CL every year. With the changing landscape of English football, this assumption has not so much been challenged, as completely eviscerated.

The primary driver of a sale will be both downward pressure on revenues caused by only intermittent CL participation, but also upward pressure on key costs such as player transfers and wages. The cost of being competitive, to the tune of CL participation, is radically escalating and at some point there will be a tipping point where it’s best they get out.

I suspect they will look to secure new long term sponsorship deals for the shirt, which significantly increases on the current deal, and use that to point to the overall value of the brand and demand a greater price. Of course should a group bid way over asking price, it’ll be moot. But I think their magic number at this point is around 4bn, which I am not sure the market will support, even for the Saudis.

Edit: I should also add that the assumptions of a European super league included a salary cap, which was seen as the primary mechanism of cost control. Currently increases in revenues are eaten up by a concomitant increased in salaries. Again, this proved a false assumption.
 
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Valar Morghulis

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The Glazer’s will have acquired the club with an eventual exit strategy in mind. The question is when that will occur, not if. I’ve written about this in detail before but to summarise, the two key milestones they were looking to pass (to maximise value) were the monetisation If mobile streaming rights in China and India, and the formation of a European Super League. Their expectation was that costs would be controlled by (a) rigorous FFP - which prompted Woodward’s now infamous “watch this space” statement and (b) a salary cap.

These plans have largely come undone as FFP was revised and it has not prevented a massive inflation of transfer fees - which radically changes club economics. And the Super League idea looks a non-starter.

Revenue predictions, and the financial sustainability model, was based on the key assumption of an average QF participation in the CL every year. With the changing landscape of English football, this assumption has not so much been challenged, as completely eviscerated.

The primary driver of a sale will be both downward pressure on revenues caused by only intermittent CL participation, but also upward pressure on key costs such as player transfers and wages. The cost of being competitive, to the tune of CL participation, is radically escalating and at some point there will be a tipping point where it’s best they get out.

I suspect they will look to secure new long term sponsorship deals for the shirt, which significantly increases on the current deal, and use that to point to the overall value of the brand and demand a greater price. Of course should a group bid way over asking price, it’ll be moot. But I think their magic number at this point is around 4bn, which I am not sure the market will support, even for the Saudis.
Delicious little post that in fairness. What are you thoughts on the rumours about them being willing to part with a 20% stake in the club for £1B? Do you reckon that is the strategy they will adopt when they're in selling mode, auctioning off cheeky little slices one at a time and play the long game, or do you think they would demand the whole cake in one go? :wenger:
 

red thru&thru

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Delicious little post that in fairness. What are you thoughts on the rumours about them being willing to part with a 20% stake in the club for £1B? Do you reckon that is the strategy they will adopt when they're in selling mode, auctioning off cheeky little slices one at a time and play the long game, or do you think they would demand the whole cake in one go? :wenger:
Personally, I think they will sell in small chunks. Too big to be bought all at once.
 

stevoc

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The Glazers will sell up one day... but not yet. Not yet!
 
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simonhch

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Delicious little post that in fairness. What are you thoughts on the rumours about them being willing to part with a 20% stake in the club for £1B? Do you reckon that is the strategy they will adopt when they're in selling mode, auctioning off cheeky little slices one at a time and play the long game, or do you think they would demand the whole cake in one go? :wenger:
Thank you for your kind words.

I think the answer to that question is to be found in the cohesiveness of the Glazer siblings. Which is a bit of a guessing game. I think it’s viable that individuals will sell their stakes as they have different investment objectives, and different tolerances to medium term fluctuations of their holdings.

There is also the possibility that a minority stake sale, of say under 35%, to a wealthy fund such as that run by the Saudi’s, could eventually increase the value of the club if that investor was willing to (a) inject additional capital into the club for infrastructure improvements, or (b) buy out the long term debt obligations of the club and eliminate interest payments. That debt could ultimately be converted to equity.

It’s very hard to tell the direction this will go. It’s possible the family will sell a portion of their stake now, and keep the rest (and control) for a few more years, in the hope that share price and overall valuation will increase based on improved sponsorship and media deals, as well as performances on the pitch.

My gut tells me that an investor like the Saudi’s will only buy the club for the associated image rehabilitation (“sportswashing”), at which point they’d want to own it outright.

Currently United isn’t a commercially viable asset for purchase. The valuation of the club vastly exceeds what the market can support. And it is only buyable for a select few of investors who have interests far wider than economic gain. However, if the club continue to experience downward pressure on revenues due to underperformance on the pitch, a damaging spiral of underinvestment in the playing squad and amenities will occur (through necessity), and the club’s valuation will begin to fall. Thus bringing into a more desirable investment profile of a wider selection of potential owners, as an underperforming asset.

United remains very robust financially, but it is far from immune to the effects of escalating costs and declining revenues. And ultimately if the trend of the last six years continues, it will be under tremendous pressure within 3-5 years. That isn’t even debatable. Most of the key ratios of the business are markedly worse than they were in 2013.

There is a general mythology that the company is performing well, but analysis of the last few annual results show just how significant the risk are financially for investors. This year will see an 70m drop in revenues, and next year revenues will drop even further if CL participation is not secured, as penalties in sponsorship clauses will come into effect. The fact that these clauses (previously seen as an insignificant risk) have become relevant, will only increase their prevalence in future sponsorship negotiations. Which is a worrying position for the club to be in.

I am interested to see where this goes. When I look at the value of the club, and identify the risks moving forwards - including the importance of CL participation, the expense of rebuilding the squad, the escalation of player wages, and the desperate need for infrastructure investment - I don’t see the club becoming more valuable in the medium term. I think it is at peak valuation now. If the Glazer’s choose to hold on beyond the next 12 months, I think they will hold it until they are either forced to sell due to a serious downturn in economic performance, or there is a significant milestone reached which allows the scope for considerable growth.

There remains juice to be squeezed from the Asian markets, particularly with mobile streaming rights; but the club is becoming uncompetitive on the field at just the wrong time, as other elite clubs have caught up and even surpassed our global marketing efforts.

What we cannot ascertain, from the outside, are the prospects of major change to the European football landscape. The notion of a top four is one that doesn’t offer any strategic stability to United, and due to the aggressive competitiveness of the domestic game, the club will require massive ongoing investment to ensure CL participation. The solution, (and previously a key assumption of their leveraged buy out) is a closed shop to eliminate the uncertainty of annual participation in top competitions. Even an expanded CL is unlikely to ameliorate these concerns, as the spots will go to 2nd tier leagues.

The stability will only be achieved through a European Super League, without relegation, that assures the club of ever growing revenues. Only those on the inside can be sure of the reasonable prospect of that; but it remains a politically and logistically fraught proposition, and I would deduce something that is far more likely to not occur, than it is to occur. Again we come back to the deeply flawed inherent assumptions to the long term strategic intent of the Glazer family, and their advisor EW.

A Super League is a concept that is sure to get support from leading teams of 2nd tier leagues, such as PSG and Juve. Teams who dominate their markets, but whose markets are ultimately tiny. But it is one that will be derided amongst the more competitive leagues, the leagues for whom their will be no place, many fan groups, and most governing bodies. Even if it does ultimately happen, it won’t be in the foreseeable future.

Again, I would think the Glazers have to be close to an exit strategy. The cost of ownerships versus the returns, have passed the sweet spot; and the inherent risks of the market would indicate to me that long term ownership is increasingly undesirable for an ownership profile like the Glazers. This is vastly different to the protectionist market that is the NFL, where on field performance is markedly irrelevant to economic outcomes. My belief is that the Glazer’s saw United as an ever present at the CL top table, and nothing can have prepared them for the horrific performances of the last seven years.

People will assume that the effects of poor on the field performance will be felt acutely, whereas I believe the deleterious impacts will be felt with delayed onset. What is occurring now is a general weakening of the brand which will take a decade to truly manifest. Meanwhile the escalating cost of player acquisitions without return, will continue to mount, until liabilities prevent significant investment in the playing squad without the returns bequeathed by recurring CL participation. The pain, is just beginning to be felt, and if the situation is not remedies over the next 24 months, I do believe the Glazer’s will have to get out.

Whatever happens, the club is only likely to fall into the hands of a group like the Saudi’s who can assign value beyond economic performance.
 
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AneRu

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Thank you for your kind words.

I think the answer to that question is to be found in the cohesiveness of the Glazer siblings. Which is a bit of a guessing game. I think it’s viable that individuals will sell their stakes as they have different investment objectives, and different tolerances to medium term fluctuations of their holdings.

There is also the possibility that a minority stake sale, of say under 35%, to a wealthy fund such as that run by the Saudi’s, could eventually increase the value of the club if that investor was willing to (a) inject additional capital into the club for infrastructure improvements, or (b) buy out the long term debt obligations of the club and eliminate interest payments. That debt could ultimately be converted to equity.

It’s very hard to tell the direction this will go. It’s possible the family will sell a portion of their stake now, and keep the rest (and control) for a few more years, in the hope that share price and overall valuation will increase based on improved sponsorship and media deals, as well as performances on the pitch.

My gut tells me that an investor like the Saudi’s will only buy the club for the associated image rehabilitation (“sportswashing”), at which point they’d want to own it outright.

Currently United isn’t a commercially viable asset for purchase. The valuation of the club vastly exceeds what the market can support. And it is only buyable for a select few of investors who have interests far wider than economic gain. However, if the club continue to experience downward pressure on revenues due to underperformance on the pitch, a damaging spiral of underinvestment in the playing squad and amenities will occur (through necessity), and the club’s valuation will begin to fall. Thus bringing into a more desirable investment profile of a wider selection of potential owners, as an underperforming asset.

United remains very robust financially, but it is far from immune to the effects of escalating costs and declining revenues. And ultimately if the trend of the last six years continues, it will be under tremendous pressure within 3-5 years. That isn’t even debatable. Most of the key ratios of the business are markedly worse than they were in 2013.

There is a general mythology that the company is performing well, but analysis of the last few annual results show just how significant the risk are financially for investors. This year will see an 70m drop in revenues, and next year revenues will drop even further if CL participation is not secured, as penalties in sponsorship clauses will come into effect. The fact that these clauses (previously seen as an insignificant risk) have become relevant, will only increase their prevalence in future sponsorship negotiations. Which is a worrying position for the club to be in.

I am interested to see where this goes. When I look at the value of the club, and identify the risks moving forwards - including the importance of CL participation, the expense of rebuilding the squad, the escalation of player wages, and the desperate need for infrastructure investment - I don’t see the club becoming more valuable in the medium term. I think it is at peak valuation now. If the Glazer’s choose to hold on beyond the next 12 months, I think they will hold it until they are either forced to sell due to a serious downturn in economic performance, or there is a significant milestone reached which allows the scope for considerable growth.

There remains juice to be squeezed from the Asian markets, particularly with mobile streaming rights; but the club is becoming uncompetitive on the field at just the wrong time, as other elite clubs have caught up and even surpassed our global marketing efforts.

What we cannot ascertain, from the outside, are the prospects of major change to the European football landscape. The notion of a top four is one that doesn’t offer any strategic stability to United, and due to the aggressive competitiveness of the domestic game, the club will require massive ongoing investment to ensure CL participation. The solution, (and previously a key assumption of their leveraged buy out) is a closed shop to eliminate the uncertainty of annual participation in top competitions. Even an expanded CL is unlikely to ameliorate these concerns, as the spots will go to 2nd tier leagues.

The stability will only be achieved through a European Super League, without relegation, that assures the club of ever growing revenues. Only those on the inside can be sure of the reasonable prospect of that; but it remains a politically and logistically fraught proposition, and I would deduce something that is far more likely to not occur, than it is to occur. Again we come back to the deeply flawed inherent assumptions to the long term strategic intent of the Glazer family, and their advisor EW.

A Super League is a concept that is sure to get support from leading teams of 2nd tier leagues, such as PSG and Juve. Teams who dominate their markets, but whose markets are ultimately tiny. But it is one that will be derided amongst the more competitive leagues, the leagues for whom their will be no place, many fan groups, and most governing bodies. Even if it does ultimately happen, it won’t be in the foreseeable future.

Again, I would think the Glazers have to be close to an exit strategy. The cost of ownerships versus the returns, have passed the sweet spot; and the inherent risks of the market would indicate to me that long term ownership is increasingly undesirable for an ownership profile like the Glazers. This is vastly different to the protectionist market that is the NFL, where on field performance is markedly irrelevant to economic outcomes. My belief is that the Glazer’s saw United as an ever present at the CL top table, and nothing can have prepared them for the horrific performances of the last seven years.

People will assume that the effects of poor on the field performance will be felt acutely, whereas I believe the deleterious impacts will be felt with delayed onset. What is occurring now is a general weakening of the brand which will take a decade to truly manifest. Meanwhile the escalating cost of player acquisitions without return, will continue to mount, until liabilities prevent significant investment in the playing squad without the returns bequeathed by recurring CL participation. The pain, is just beginning to be felt, and if the situation is not remedies over the next 24 months, I do believe the Glazer’s will have to get out.

Whatever happens, the club is only likely to fall into the hands of a group like the Saudi’s who can assign value beyond economic performance.
In my view the Mourinho appointment was like a last chance salon for the club in its current state, we had to get it right and the fact that we didn't means that we are now on a sustained downward slope and just getting a good manager in, even with significant investments, won't stop the bleeding until we revamp everything from the bottom up. If the Glazers don't sell up within the next two or three years I think their window of opportunity for a big profit will close because the malaise on the pitch has now crept onto the financial side and this at a time when the club still needs major investment over the next couple of years. Looking at what we need to get back to being guaranteed CL participants every season and the declining revenues coupled with escalating costs I think the Glazers need the Saudis more than they have been letting on.
 

Gehrman

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TBH our reputation as club will be completely tainted if we are owned by the Saudi's. We will probably be able outmuscle anyone fincancially, but we will be known as the club owned by a murderous dictator.

Still if we bring in Mpabbe I for one will welcome our new Saudi overlords.
 

fezzerUTD

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Delicious little post that in fairness. What are you thoughts on the rumours about them being willing to part with a 20% stake in the club for £1B? Do you reckon that is the strategy they will adopt when they're in selling mode, auctioning off cheeky little slices one at a time and play the long game, or do you think they would demand the whole cake in one go? :wenger:
I literally have no clue about this but I think based on tax reasons it would be sold in smaller portions.
 

AneRu

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I literally have no clue about this but I think based on tax reasons it would be sold in smaller portions.
Isn't their holding company that owns the club registered in some dodgy jurisdiction that's lax on these issues? Another thing is that anyone who is going to buy is going to want full control especially if its the infamous Saudis to enable them to make strategic and operational changes so I don't think they will find anyone who would part with a billion pounds to buy a minority stake and not have much of a say in how the club is run. They may want to sell the club in chunks but I don't think there is a single buyer who would desire such a scenario.
 

fezzerUTD

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Isn't their holding company that owns the club registered in some dodgy jurisdiction that's lax on these issues? Another thing is that anyone who is going to buy is going to want full control especially if its the infamous Saudis to enable them to make strategic and operational changes so I don't think they will find anyone who would part with a billion pounds to buy a minority stake and not have much of a say in how the club is run. They may want to sell the club in chunks but I don't think there is a single buyer who would desire such a scenario.
Yeh but bringing the money back into US or UK they couldn't just move it tax free. But I have no idea at all how it works so we will see.
 

AneRu

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Yeh but bringing the money back into US or UK they couldn't just move it tax free. But I have no idea at all how it works so we will see.
They wouldn't need to bring money back in the US, at least not at once anyway. They could just form another company in the Cayman Islands and use it to buy up US/UK/EU assets in the same way they did with the Red Football Ltd.
 

tenpoless

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It's funny how it all started from Twitter. I bet that guy is laughing if He sees this thread, regardless if there was a real intent or not. The hysteria came after the tweet.
 

Sandikan

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TBH our reputation as club will be completely tainted if we are owned by the Saudi's. We will probably be able outmuscle anyone fincancially, but we will be known as the club owned by a murderous dictator.

Still if we bring in Mpabbe I for one will welcome our new Saudi overlords.
We are known as the red devils...
 

Valar Morghulis

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Thank you for your kind words.

I think the answer to that question is to be found in the cohesiveness of the Glazer siblings. Which is a bit of a guessing game. I think it’s viable that individuals will sell their stakes as they have different investment objectives, and different tolerances to medium term fluctuations of their holdings.

There is also the possibility that a minority stake sale, of say under 35%, to a wealthy fund such as that run by the Saudi’s, could eventually increase the value of the club if that investor was willing to (a) inject additional capital into the club for infrastructure improvements, or (b) buy out the long term debt obligations of the club and eliminate interest payments. That debt could ultimately be converted to equity.

It’s very hard to tell the direction this will go. It’s possible the family will sell a portion of their stake now, and keep the rest (and control) for a few more years, in the hope that share price and overall valuation will increase based on improved sponsorship and media deals, as well as performances on the pitch.

My gut tells me that an investor like the Saudi’s will only buy the club for the associated image rehabilitation (“sportswashing”), at which point they’d want to own it outright.

Currently United isn’t a commercially viable asset for purchase. The valuation of the club vastly exceeds what the market can support. And it is only buyable for a select few of investors who have interests far wider than economic gain. However, if the club continue to experience downward pressure on revenues due to underperformance on the pitch, a damaging spiral of underinvestment in the playing squad and amenities will occur (through necessity), and the club’s valuation will begin to fall. Thus bringing into a more desirable investment profile of a wider selection of potential owners, as an underperforming asset.

United remains very robust financially, but it is far from immune to the effects of escalating costs and declining revenues. And ultimately if the trend of the last six years continues, it will be under tremendous pressure within 3-5 years. That isn’t even debatable. Most of the key ratios of the business are markedly worse than they were in 2013.

There is a general mythology that the company is performing well, but analysis of the last few annual results show just how significant the risk are financially for investors. This year will see an 70m drop in revenues, and next year revenues will drop even further if CL participation is not secured, as penalties in sponsorship clauses will come into effect. The fact that these clauses (previously seen as an insignificant risk) have become relevant, will only increase their prevalence in future sponsorship negotiations. Which is a worrying position for the club to be in.

I am interested to see where this goes. When I look at the value of the club, and identify the risks moving forwards - including the importance of CL participation, the expense of rebuilding the squad, the escalation of player wages, and the desperate need for infrastructure investment - I don’t see the club becoming more valuable in the medium term. I think it is at peak valuation now. If the Glazer’s choose to hold on beyond the next 12 months, I think they will hold it until they are either forced to sell due to a serious downturn in economic performance, or there is a significant milestone reached which allows the scope for considerable growth.

There remains juice to be squeezed from the Asian markets, particularly with mobile streaming rights; but the club is becoming uncompetitive on the field at just the wrong time, as other elite clubs have caught up and even surpassed our global marketing efforts.

What we cannot ascertain, from the outside, are the prospects of major change to the European football landscape. The notion of a top four is one that doesn’t offer any strategic stability to United, and due to the aggressive competitiveness of the domestic game, the club will require massive ongoing investment to ensure CL participation. The solution, (and previously a key assumption of their leveraged buy out) is a closed shop to eliminate the uncertainty of annual participation in top competitions. Even an expanded CL is unlikely to ameliorate these concerns, as the spots will go to 2nd tier leagues.

The stability will only be achieved through a European Super League, without relegation, that assures the club of ever growing revenues. Only those on the inside can be sure of the reasonable prospect of that; but it remains a politically and logistically fraught proposition, and I would deduce something that is far more likely to not occur, than it is to occur. Again we come back to the deeply flawed inherent assumptions to the long term strategic intent of the Glazer family, and their advisor EW.

A Super League is a concept that is sure to get support from leading teams of 2nd tier leagues, such as PSG and Juve. Teams who dominate their markets, but whose markets are ultimately tiny. But it is one that will be derided amongst the more competitive leagues, the leagues for whom their will be no place, many fan groups, and most governing bodies. Even if it does ultimately happen, it won’t be in the foreseeable future.

Again, I would think the Glazers have to be close to an exit strategy. The cost of ownerships versus the returns, have passed the sweet spot; and the inherent risks of the market would indicate to me that long term ownership is increasingly undesirable for an ownership profile like the Glazers. This is vastly different to the protectionist market that is the NFL, where on field performance is markedly irrelevant to economic outcomes. My belief is that the Glazer’s saw United as an ever present at the CL top table, and nothing can have prepared them for the horrific performances of the last seven years.

People will assume that the effects of poor on the field performance will be felt acutely, whereas I believe the deleterious impacts will be felt with delayed onset. What is occurring now is a general weakening of the brand which will take a decade to truly manifest. Meanwhile the escalating cost of player acquisitions without return, will continue to mount, until liabilities prevent significant investment in the playing squad without the returns bequeathed by recurring CL participation. The pain, is just beginning to be felt, and if the situation is not remedies over the next 24 months, I do believe the Glazer’s will have to get out.

Whatever happens, the club is only likely to fall into the hands of a group like the Saudi’s who can assign value beyond economic performance.
Thanks for answering my question and then some. Great post!
 

RUCK4444

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Thank you for your kind words.

I think the answer to that question is to be found in the cohesiveness of the Glazer siblings. Which is a bit of a guessing game. I think it’s viable that individuals will sell their stakes as they have different investment objectives, and different tolerances to medium term fluctuations of their holdings.

There is also the possibility that a minority stake sale, of say under 35%, to a wealthy fund such as that run by the Saudi’s, could eventually increase the value of the club if that investor was willing to (a) inject additional capital into the club for infrastructure improvements, or (b) buy out the long term debt obligations of the club and eliminate interest payments. That debt could ultimately be converted to equity.

It’s very hard to tell the direction this will go. It’s possible the family will sell a portion of their stake now, and keep the rest (and control) for a few more years, in the hope that share price and overall valuation will increase based on improved sponsorship and media deals, as well as performances on the pitch.

My gut tells me that an investor like the Saudi’s will only buy the club for the associated image rehabilitation (“sportswashing”), at which point they’d want to own it outright.

Currently United isn’t a commercially viable asset for purchase. The valuation of the club vastly exceeds what the market can support. And it is only buyable for a select few of investors who have interests far wider than economic gain. However, if the club continue to experience downward pressure on revenues due to underperformance on the pitch, a damaging spiral of underinvestment in the playing squad and amenities will occur (through necessity), and the club’s valuation will begin to fall. Thus bringing into a more desirable investment profile of a wider selection of potential owners, as an underperforming asset.

United remains very robust financially, but it is far from immune to the effects of escalating costs and declining revenues. And ultimately if the trend of the last six years continues, it will be under tremendous pressure within 3-5 years. That isn’t even debatable. Most of the key ratios of the business are markedly worse than they were in 2013.

There is a general mythology that the company is performing well, but analysis of the last few annual results show just how significant the risk are financially for investors. This year will see an 70m drop in revenues, and next year revenues will drop even further if CL participation is not secured, as penalties in sponsorship clauses will come into effect. The fact that these clauses (previously seen as an insignificant risk) have become relevant, will only increase their prevalence in future sponsorship negotiations. Which is a worrying position for the club to be in.

I am interested to see where this goes. When I look at the value of the club, and identify the risks moving forwards - including the importance of CL participation, the expense of rebuilding the squad, the escalation of player wages, and the desperate need for infrastructure investment - I don’t see the club becoming more valuable in the medium term. I think it is at peak valuation now. If the Glazer’s choose to hold on beyond the next 12 months, I think they will hold it until they are either forced to sell due to a serious downturn in economic performance, or there is a significant milestone reached which allows the scope for considerable growth.

There remains juice to be squeezed from the Asian markets, particularly with mobile streaming rights; but the club is becoming uncompetitive on the field at just the wrong time, as other elite clubs have caught up and even surpassed our global marketing efforts.

What we cannot ascertain, from the outside, are the prospects of major change to the European football landscape. The notion of a top four is one that doesn’t offer any strategic stability to United, and due to the aggressive competitiveness of the domestic game, the club will require massive ongoing investment to ensure CL participation. The solution, (and previously a key assumption of their leveraged buy out) is a closed shop to eliminate the uncertainty of annual participation in top competitions. Even an expanded CL is unlikely to ameliorate these concerns, as the spots will go to 2nd tier leagues.

The stability will only be achieved through a European Super League, without relegation, that assures the club of ever growing revenues. Only those on the inside can be sure of the reasonable prospect of that; but it remains a politically and logistically fraught proposition, and I would deduce something that is far more likely to not occur, than it is to occur. Again we come back to the deeply flawed inherent assumptions to the long term strategic intent of the Glazer family, and their advisor EW.

A Super League is a concept that is sure to get support from leading teams of 2nd tier leagues, such as PSG and Juve. Teams who dominate their markets, but whose markets are ultimately tiny. But it is one that will be derided amongst the more competitive leagues, the leagues for whom their will be no place, many fan groups, and most governing bodies. Even if it does ultimately happen, it won’t be in the foreseeable future.

Again, I would think the Glazers have to be close to an exit strategy. The cost of ownerships versus the returns, have passed the sweet spot; and the inherent risks of the market would indicate to me that long term ownership is increasingly undesirable for an ownership profile like the Glazers. This is vastly different to the protectionist market that is the NFL, where on field performance is markedly irrelevant to economic outcomes. My belief is that the Glazer’s saw United as an ever present at the CL top table, and nothing can have prepared them for the horrific performances of the last seven years.

People will assume that the effects of poor on the field performance will be felt acutely, whereas I believe the deleterious impacts will be felt with delayed onset. What is occurring now is a general weakening of the brand which will take a decade to truly manifest. Meanwhile the escalating cost of player acquisitions without return, will continue to mount, until liabilities prevent significant investment in the playing squad without the returns bequeathed by recurring CL participation. The pain, is just beginning to be felt, and if the situation is not remedies over the next 24 months, I do believe the Glazer’s will have to get out..
Excellent post sir.

Your last sentence:
Whatever happens, the club is only likely to fall into the hands of a group like the Saudi’s who can assign value beyond economic performance.

Whilst none of us want specifically the Saudi’s as owners, this point is exactly why we must have them.

It’s been clear for some time, and I’ve posted about it many times, that as one of the biggest brands in world football we must move towards ownership that doesn’t seek huge financial returns.

R Madrid, Barca, Bayern, PSG, City, Chelsea... these clubs all have one thing in common and it’s the lack of an owner that wants return on their investment.

What’s worse to me is that City, PSG, Chelsea exist at this level because of their owners money, we just need to spend our own self generated cash that we earned the hard way.

We deserve to spend every penny on the playing staff and facilities.

That’s a big factor in these clubs challenging every year, they spend all they can on the squad
Every. Feckin. Penny
 

wolvored

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If we get bought by the Saudis, whose money I read earns £16 billion a year, and clears the debt, we can probably spend £200 million a year from our own earnings, without the Saudis having to put their hands in their pockets again. The only thing they would need to do is build a new ground, or update OT. I think they would want to put their own blueprint on Utd and building a 100,000 seater stadium would do that, maybe on the car park and use OT unil built, similar to what Spurs done.
 

GazTheLegend

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TBH our reputation as club will be completely tainted if we are owned by the Saudi's. We will probably be able outmuscle anyone fincancially, but we will be known as the club owned by a murderous dictator.

Still if we bring in Mpabbe I for one will welcome our new Saudi overlords.
See, nobody gives a shit that Chelsea are owned by a former KGB GANGSTER, nor do they care about the Mansours and their affairs in Yemen.

I'm not saying I'd be happy that the Saudi's were in charge but better those than the Glazers and some creditors in America.
 

moodyred

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With FFP, it means that whoever's is in charge cant just pump money into the club. With Glazer however, our profit goes to paying debts and I suspect another large part does not go back to club.

This club makes decent profits. Just need someone who can continue to grow this club other than the glazers.
 

stepic

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they will have seen City's punishment and be thinking, we need to buy a team that can still buy big within the FFP. we are one of if not the only team able to be purchased in such a scenario. they would have FFP issues with Newcastle.
 

Skåre Willoch

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See, nobody gives a shit that Chelsea are owned by a former KGB GANGSTER, nor do they care about the Mansours and their affairs in Yemen.

I'm not saying I'd be happy that the Saudi's were in charge but better those than the Glazers and some creditors in America.

But... People actually give a shit. Which is why so many on here is discussing the issue. There are 32 pages in this thread alone that proves people care about club ownerships.

Manchester United should be about more than money. For the Glazers, that's all we are. Sadly.
With MBS & The Gang, we'll definitely be about more than money. It's a shame those things are torture, human rights issues, terrorism, etc.
I give many shits about this. Many people do.
 

stubie

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If we get bought by the Saudis, whose money I read earns £16 billion a year, and clears the debt, we can probably spend £200 million a year from our own earnings, without the Saudis having to put their hands in their pockets again. The only thing they would need to do is build a new ground, or update OT. I think they would want to put their own blueprint on Utd and building a 100,000 seater stadium would do that, maybe on the car park and use OT unil built, similar to what Spurs done.
That’s exactly what I’ve said, almost word for word.
 

MattofManchester

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I've supported this club since I was a kid, but if we end up being owned by a murderous dictatorial nutjob(which he is), then my relationship with this club and football will end. Some things transcend sport.

And just because other clubs have owners that are of contentious backgrounds, we should do the same and just accept it? I'm sorry, but just because someone else jumped off the cliff doesn't mean I will too.

One should never lose their moral compass.
 

Merlin 1975-78

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In my view the Mourinho appointment was like a last chance salon for the club in its current state, we had to get it right and the fact that we didn't means that we are now on a sustained downward slope and just getting a good manager in, even with significant investments, won't stop the bleeding until we revamp everything from the bottom up. If the Glazers don't sell up within the next two or three years I think their window of opportunity for a big profit will close because the malaise on the pitch has now crept onto the financial side and this at a time when the club still needs major investment over the next couple of years. Looking at what we need to get back to being guaranteed CL participants every season and the declining revenues coupled with escalating costs I think the Glazers need the Saudis more than they have been letting on.
I reckon you have called that absolutely right but sadly the problem is that our parasite owners are far too stuborn too sell-up, but I would love too be proved wrong about that last comment of mine as The Glazers are holding, United back from competing for the title let alone winning anymore European Cup's too add too the 3 that we currently have in our honours list.
 

TheLord

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Priorities in sorted order:
1. Europa League (cup + automatic Champions League qualification)
2. Fourth (? fifth) place in the Premier League (CL qualfication)
3. FA cup (cup)
 

tenpoless

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It's more of PR than anything else. Don't you notice it? everytime They come out with this stuff, They always make sure to include "That means Saudi are serious about expanding the very good business it already has and has A MASSIVE POWER to buy even United". If their intent is mainly to buy for investments, there's no need to include "Yes We are very good We can even buy United!". It's a bit silly honestly, everyone knows They're rich. There's no need for a reminder and by doing this, They will only increase the price.You don't go looking for a house and tell the property agent "I have a tons of money, I can buy even the most expensive houses".
 

Reyoji-Utd

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There will be only limited buyers that willing to buy UTD and let UTD use all of the money they earn to invest back into the club. Most of the very rich ones are either not that interest in football or see that splashing 3b-5b in UTD isnt better than invest in other sector.

Those that would spend the money on UTD have to be a fan or need UTD for their PR project.

So its only the Saudies, UAE, Chinese Corps (maybe related with gov) thats are likely to buy up and let UTD spend all the money without complaining.

So what can we do when the Glazers decide to sell? Which buyer that will make everyone happy with their good conscience.
 

Karlos PFC

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I've supported this club since I was a kid, but if we end up being owned by a murderous dictatorial nutjob(which he is), then my relationship with this club and football will end. Some things transcend sport.

And just because other clubs have owners that are of contentious backgrounds, we should do the same and just accept it? I'm sorry, but just because someone else jumped off the cliff doesn't mean I will too.

One should never lose their moral compass.
I'm with you on this but... The Glazers are not any different than the Saudis.

May I remind you that whatever is happening in Yemen and other countries is with the blessings of America (gun selling, oil companies, dictatorships etc).

Just a friendly reminder
 

Escobar

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I've supported this club since I was a kid, but if we end up being owned by a murderous dictatorial nutjob(which he is), then my relationship with this club and football will end. Some things transcend sport.

And just because other clubs have owners that are of contentious backgrounds, we should do the same and just accept it? I'm sorry, but just because someone else jumped off the cliff doesn't mean I will too.

One should never lose their moral compass.
People tend to have a very flexible moral compass. They adjust it all the time so it fits their own agenda. I doubt much will change with whomever in charge
 

RedDevil@84

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I'm with you on this but... The Glazers are not any different than the Saudis.

May I remind you that whatever is happening in Yemen and other countries is with the blessings of America (gun selling, oil companies, dictatorships etc).

Just a friendly reminder
Wait for the "We don't have a say in what governments do, but we should be having one with a football club" argument.
 

Inigo Montoya

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Some idiots on here really believe that a regime, an absolute monarchy and authoritarian state is preferable to the Glazers?
 

Inigo Montoya

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I'm with you on this but... The Glazers are not any different than the Saudis.

May I remind you that whatever is happening in Yemen and other countries is with the blessings of America (gun selling, oil companies, dictatorships etc).

Just a friendly reminder
What fecking bollocks. Show me one piece of evidence that links the billionaire owners of a sports franchise to the humanitarian abuse in Yemen

Show me some evidence that the Glazers are involved directly in selling arms to dictatorships
 

hungrywing

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If you squint just a bit they stand for almost literally the complete opposite of the principles - or at least the general mores one imagines the founders at the time would have harbored in daily life - the club was founded on.

Some idiots on here really believe that a regime, an absolute monarchy and authoritarian state is preferable to the Glazers?
I'd be really interested to know the age breakdown of the Welcome, Saudis group.

Also, for certain types of people for whom the 'winning years' functioned much like a drug or propping-up mechanism - there will be those types of individuals here and there who for example wanted Jose out of desperation.
 

Inigo Montoya

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If you squint just a bit they stand for almost literally the complete opposite of the principles - or at least the general mores one imagines the founders at the time would have harbored in daily life - the club was founded on.



I'd be really interested to know the age breakdown of the Welcome, Saudis group.

Also, for certain types of people for whom the 'winning years' functioned much like a drug or propping-up mechanism - there will be those types of individuals here and there who for example wanted Jose out of desperation.
:lol:
Well said
 

sglowrider

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People tend to have a very flexible moral compass. They adjust it all the time so it fits their own agenda. I doubt much will change with whomever in charge
Its like anything virtual, after a while you just dont remember or think about it. Based on the Ole In/Out debate, it seems to me that people dont give a shit unless they win silverware.
 

matt10000

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Some idiots calling people idiot in a online discussion forum when people have different opinion with their.
Yes people with different opinions about football on a football forum should not call each other idiots, after all it is football not life and death. However, the Saudi regime is a murderous dictatorship that executes and persecutes people for being female, homosexual, a protestor against the state........it is very much about life and death and so I can understand why people who support them on a public forum are branded idiots.